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DragonKing
08-12-2005, 03:38 PM
http://pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs003.gif
Sceptile (F) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Leaf Blade
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Endeavor

Once Petaya and Overgrow activate, Sceptile sweeps like crazy. It can Endeavor before going down, too.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs115.gif
Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Roar
- Drill Peck
- Rest

Normal and ground resistance, Spikes, and p-haze.

http://pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs380.gif
Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Crocune can counter Swampert and Boah (regular Suicune can't).

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Heracross (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Focus Punch
- Rock Slide
- Facade

Hi Mr. Status User.

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Donphan (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Rest

Without her, I'd be highly vulnerable to Dusclops. EQ 2HKOs with CB.

http://pokemonelite2000.com/pkrs298.gif
Snorlax (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 12 HP / 196 Atk / 136 Def / 164 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, SAtk)
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rest

I love this spread. 464 HP is divisible by 16 for Leftovers, 305 attack OHKOs Raikou with Earthquake guaranteed, 200 defense is easy to work with when calculating Curses, etc.

Please point out any major weaknesses because I want to make this team as reliable as possible. Thanks and take care.

P.S. Should I replace Sceptile with, say, Celebi (or someone else)?

IT
08-12-2005, 04:18 PM
1. I like Ancient Power on Donphan, the random stat raise is just sweet, but also, why Choice Band?

2. Your Curselax gets killed by any form of Gengar which will waste of your curses.

3. Hasty Sceptile if you're gonna use Endeavor.

4 How do you take care of Skarmory once your Suicune goes down?

DragonKing
08-12-2005, 06:29 PM
1. I like Ancient Power on Donphan, the random stat raise is just sweet, but also, why Choice Band?

2. Your Curselax gets killed by any form of Gengar which will waste of your curses.

3. Hasty Sceptile if you're gonna use Endeavor.

4 How do you take care of Skarmory once your Suicune goes down?
1. Ancientpower runs out of PP too quickly IMO, especially with Choice Band, but I'll consider it. Donphan can't take on Dusclops without a Choice Band from personal experience. It needs that guaranteed 2HKO, so Dusclops is forced to switch out after being hit hard on the switch in.

2. If I replace EQ with SB, the same can be said for Metagross and Jirachi. It's not like Gengar will stay in to be killed by Shadow Ball. He'll switch out immediately to see which set Snorlax is running. Earthquake is almost always better than Shadow Ball on Curselax.

3. Why Hasty? Outspeeding Timid Starmie is a must.

4. Skarmory does nothing to my team. Donphan makes its Spikes useless, and Heracross is my only physical sweeper for Skarmory to wall. Besides, Focus Punch on the switch does some heavy damage to Skarmory. It does like 90% after Guts boost iirc.

Anything else? Thanks and take care.

IT
08-12-2005, 09:27 PM
Hasty increases speed and decreases defense, while Timid increases speed and decreases attack, and Sceptile needs some attack to do damage with Endeavor.

So why not replace Body Slam with Shadow Ball? Just a suggestion though.

Skarmory does nothing? It laughs at your Curselax and p-hazes it away, Drill Pecks your Heracross, and propably has decent chances of beating up your Sceptile since you have nothing super effective.

Also, Weezing?

It is a good team btw :cool:

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2005, 02:33 AM
Hasty increases speed and decreases defense, while Timid increases speed and decreases attack, and Sceptile needs some attack to do damage with Endeavor.

Endeavor makes the opponent's HP whatever your HP is if it's lower... it's unaffected by Attack stats.

So why not replace Body Slam with Shadow Ball? Just a suggestion though.

Because Gengar dies to Crocune and Heracross.

Skarmory does nothing? It laughs at your Curselax and p-hazes it away, Drill Pecks your Heracross, and propably has decent chances of beating up your Sceptile since you have nothing super effective.

Heracross beats Skarm with slick prediction... I'd use Magneton for the sake of using Magneton, but it's unnecessary. Rest Talking Suicune is hard to take down... if DragonKIng knows they have Skarm, he'll be fighting to keep Heracross and Suicune both alive, and using them to make Skarm's life miserable.

Also, Weezing?

I suppose Weezing *could* hurt this team if Suicune and Heracross died... but Heracross *likes* being Burned. Facade + Guts + CB > Weezing.

It is a good team btw :cool:

Indeed. :biggrin:

Oh, and Donphan's EVs look weird IMO... maybe enough for 368 HP / Max Attack for Clops destruction and the rest in Defense.

Just my $0.02. :oops:

DragonKing
08-13-2005, 03:02 AM
Sorry about the Hasty confusion; you'd think I should know my natures by now! :razz:
Yes, DragonSeeker is correct. Endeavor is not a physical attack so you'd be sacrificing defense for no reason. Replacing Body Slam with Shadow Ball is pointless because Snorlax needs its STAB to do any serious damage. Body Slam is effective against many pokemon, but STAB-less Shadow Ball is only useful against Gengar and Dusclops. I have Crocune to deal with Gengar. Besides, Heracross would destroy him. Heracross creams Skarmory on the switch with Focus Punch (and so far I've predicted right on every Skarmory switch-in with this team), and Weezing gets slaughtered by a Guts-boosted Facade. As for Snorlax, I'm obviously not going to Curse up until Skarmory is done for (or has under 10%). DragonSeeker, I think defense EVs help Donphan's defensiveness more than HP does because his base HP isn't that low (meaning he can take more physical damage from the defense EVs if I'm correct) and he isn't meant to take a single special hit. Just curious, why the random 368? Being divisible by 16 has no effect on Choice Band. Thanks and take care.

Edit: I just did two damage calculations to back up my claim. The first is with 305 attack Snorlax using Body Slam against Donphan with max defense and 4 EVs in HP. The second calculation uses the same Snorlax but the defending Donphan has 368 HP and 68 EVs in defense.

Original Donphan:
Minimum Damage: 23%
Average Damage: 26%
Maximum Damage: 28%

Dragon Seeker's Donphan
Minimum Damage: 24%
Average Damage: 26%
Maximum Damage: 28%

As you can see, your Donphan takes slightly more damage, but would be better if you intended to take any special damage. Perhaps some combination of HP and defense EVs would be the most effective. Take care.

IT
08-13-2005, 09:11 AM
Ok, sorry about the Endeavor incident, I always thought it has also something to do with Attack stat, not only HP. But yeah, I can see that you could back your team up against my comments, so now I think there's nothing wrong. Even though, it is stuffed full of OU Pokemon, which I don't really like that much, but that's just an opinion :cool:

DragonKing
08-13-2005, 03:41 PM
I know it is full of OU pokemon, but I made this team solely for the sake of standard battling. Although I prefer the UU environment to standard 386, I take full advantage of that which standard battling has to offer when I'm making a 386 team. I apologize if you interpreted this as a debate, for I was only trying to point out why I didn't think any change was necessary to meet the possible flaws you pointed out. I extensively reworked my original team to counter the Dusclops threat (switching Forretress to Donphan), while maintaining a physical resistance as well as Spikes, and without sacrificing my LS Zapdos's coverage of Boah, Swampert, and ground attacks.

Any further input and/or suggestions is welcomed, especially individual threats to this team. Thanks and take care.

Sheignie
08-13-2005, 07:40 PM
About the Facade on your Heracross, I would be very careful. If you get hit by Flamethrower and get burned, you may not have enough time to use Facade. Of course, if you get Will-o-Wisped, there shouldn't be much of a problem. But I'm new to NB, so don't take my word for it. Overall, this is a good team, although OU isn't really my style. Take care.

DragonKing
08-13-2005, 07:48 PM
You are absolutely right about Flamethrower being an issue. My above post was directed at the standard Weezing set. I would only send Heracross out when I am sure Weezing is about to use Will-o-Wisp. If Heracross didn't get burned, I'd switch it out immediately to see if Weezing had Flamethrower. Thanks for your input and take care.

P.S. You copied my catch-phrase!!! =O

IT
08-13-2005, 07:59 PM
I take almost every thread here in the Strategies and Movesets -board as a debate :cool:, so don't you worry.

Sheignie
08-13-2005, 08:00 PM
I didn't copy your catch-phrase! If it was your catch-phrase, it should say Take Care TM. Then I would no not to copy it.

Well, now I'm getting off topic, so:

Would you ever consider using Blissey instead of Snorlax? You're OU as it is, might as well SkarmBliss to make people mad. All or nothing, I say.

IT
08-13-2005, 08:14 PM
I didn't copy your catch-phrase! If it was your catch-phrase, it should say Take Care TM. Then I would no not to copy it.

Well, now I'm getting off topic, so:

Would you ever consider using Blissey instead of Snorlax? You're OU as it is, might as well SkarmBliss to make people mad. All or nothing, I say.

Snorlax simply pwns Blissey. Teams are stuffed full of skarmbliss counters, but snorlaxes really don't even have counters. Except, I have found Steelix to be a decent counter to Snorlaxes; they Curse or Sub, you Roar them away, or do some damage with EQ before that. But Blisseys can't take Focus Punches from anything.

Dragon_Seeker
08-14-2005, 10:28 PM
Just curious, why the random 368? Being divisible by 16 has no effect on Choice Band. Thanks and take care.

So you can take 2 Crunches from Boah and such on average before going down. If you plan to purely take Physical on Donphan, go for it - but I like dual coverage because, well, for the extra 3-14 extra damage I'll take for a nice artificial special defense boost, well, eh, I'm a defensive player so the dual coverage appeals.

Edit: I just did two damage calculations to back up my claim. The first is with 305 attack Snorlax using Body Slam against Donphan with max defense and 4 EVs in HP. The second calculation uses the same Snorlax but the defending Donphan has 368 HP and 68 EVs in defense.

Original Donphan:
Minimum Damage: 23%
Average Damage: 26%
Maximum Damage: 28%

Dragon Seeker's Donphan
Minimum Damage: 24%
Average Damage: 26%
Maximum Damage: 28%

As you can see, your Donphan takes slightly more damage, but would be better if you intended to take any special damage. Perhaps some combination of HP and defense EVs would be the most effective. Take care.

Yeah, that was kind of what I was pointing to, but whatever. You figured it out for yourself.

I didn't copy your catch-phrase! If it was your catch-phrase, it should say Take Care TM. Then I would no not to copy it.

Well, now I'm getting off topic, so:

We never stay on topic... it's in our nature.

Would you ever consider using Blissey instead of Snorlax? You're OU as it is, might as well SkarmBliss to make people mad. All or nothing, I say.

GOGOGOGO JIRACHI! That's why.

Swampert owns Snorlax in a Curse off, IT. He has counters. Slaking can also do a big number on him. Jirachi beats the non-EQ versions, and as mentioned, Gengar wastes him without his pretty Shadow Ball.