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Badal
03-04-2011, 02:18 PM
So Generation 5 has been released in Europe today! :happy:

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a465/T3h-Gloweh/Picture8.png

Smogon Just came out with its OU Banlist today:
Moves
All moves that increase Evasion only (e.g. Minimize)
All instant OHKO moves (e.g. Horn Drill)

Abilities
Inconsistent
Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team

Species
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys-A
Deoxys
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

What are your views on the competitive scene? Which way do you think the metagame will be driven this time around? Will it be stall reigning or will it be time for offense to shine? What are your first perspectives on the new metagame?

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 04:46 PM
Competition - The game offers over 100 more Pokemon to the scene, completely revamping game style. With the added feature of Triple Battles and Rotation battles, despite being overly hyped, still add some interesting aspects to competitive gaming. This is good, as this will help bring a little more variety to battles, and battle commentators won't find themselves saying, "And so, obviously, the Fire won against the Grass... again..."

Also, the multiplayer gameplay has been completely refreshed. No longer do you have to rely on the pitiful Friend Code system, which is one of the things that made me think the Wii was simply a petrified dinosaur poop. You are able to battle against random players. This is great, and at least the competitive side of the game is getting something new. All that is needed now is some form of easy communication and a server-based system, where you are able to know who you are going against and pick the game you would be able to enjoy the most.

Multiplayer has never been Pokemon's pride and joy. It is nice to see that after years of total obliviousness to Wi-Fi, they have finally tapped into the ancient power. They have harnessed it well, and it is exciting to see it being put to good use!


- Long live Negima!

Badal
03-04-2011, 04:56 PM
Please read the rules before posting. All posts must pertain to competitive battling only. If you have posts regarding other aspects of the game, we have a separate forum for discussions regarding in-game stuff. Feel free to check that out here (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=103)

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Please read the rules before posting. All posts must pertain to competitive battling only. If you have posts regarding other aspects of the game, we have a separate forum for discussions regarding in-game stuff. Feel free to check that out here (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=103)

Fixed, and you should really fix that avatar picture. At first glance, I thought it was flipping me off.

- Long live Negima!

Judgmental Arceus
03-04-2011, 06:11 PM
So Generation 5 has been released in Europe today! :happy:

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a465/T3h-Gloweh/Picture8.png

Smogon Just came out with its OU Banlist today:


What are your views on the competitive scene? Which way do you think the metagame will be driven this time around? Will it be stall reigning or will it be time for offense to shine? What are your first perspectives on the new metagame?
I can already see people hacking Genesect and Meloetta so they could join their OU teams. Also I am kinda surprised Victini isn't banned, especially with moves like V-Create and Searing Shot.

Latisiblings
03-05-2011, 02:34 AM
Competitively, I think this more of a Generation 4.5. All right, they made new Pokemon and new moves. But IMHO, it lacks the mechanical changes that make the new generation completely radical from the metagame before it. One example is the EV/IV system in Generation 3, and Physical/Special split in Generation 4.

But while that is all said and done, I think this will be quite a fun environment for competitive battlers. Especially the ones that didn't adapt well to the DPP metagame (like me, for example). Also, one interesting note is that Smogon has not banned the ability Shadow Tag, which is possessed by Wobbuffet and Chandelure(Shanderaa, for people familiar with Japanese names). I predict that stall will be less dominant this metagame because of powerful stallbreakers and sweepers, such as Conkeldurr(Roobushin) and Hydreigon(Sazandora).

@Arcemegus: The reason that Victini is not banned is V-Create is not legal. It's like the DPP Arceus.

Rhys!
03-05-2011, 03:14 AM
I don't know too much about competitive battling, but I know that that item that lets you use items in online battles is gonna suck.

Also, that reserve today poster was made by PE2K's own "RocketMeowth"
Just thought I'd point that out.

Badal
03-05-2011, 03:28 AM
I don't know too much about competitive battling, but I know that that item that lets you use items in online battles is gonna suck.

Also, that reserve today poster was made by PE2K's own "RocketMeowth"
Just thought I'd point that out.
I'm aware it's hers. She's a brilliant artist

Charizard Michelle
03-05-2011, 07:13 AM
I don't know the full details of why Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team is banned but I don't like it. Is a speed boost that much of a game breaker when you have things like Sand Stream and all those sand related abilities that were made this generation?

I was hoping that with now a nonUber Drizzle pokemon that we be able to get away from from Sandstorm dominating the weather game. That we be able to see some cool teams involving rain and sun. Still now that one of the main use abilities can't be used on the same team with a pokemon that can help them then it feels lame. It is as if they are just giving Sandstorm a pass and saying, "Yeah....Because rain is too powerful you guys are going to dominate the weather scene." I am hoping it will change but I don't know.

If somebody can explain why Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team is banned then maybe I understand.

Mr420
03-05-2011, 06:43 PM
personally i dont need smogon telling me what i can & cant use on my team.or any other site for that matter.
the brains behind the game finally make it so that those useless abilities can now be put to use via a more common method. "let put drizzle on a regular pkmn"
only to have it banned by some uptight self righteous 24/7 on the DS [RADIO EDIT]

Latisiblings
03-06-2011, 12:51 AM
personally i dont need smogon telling me what i can & cant use on my team.or any other site for that matter.
the brains behind the game finally make it so that those useless abilities can now be put to use via a more common method. "let put drizzle on a regular pkmn"
only to have it banned by some uptight self righteous 24/7 on the DS [RADIO EDIT]

First of all, have you even played in the metagame that involved Drizzle+Swift Swim? About 33% of the teams you faced on ladder were Rain Offence, with Politoed, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Kingdra being staples. You couldn't beat them through Priority OR Choice Scarf, because of their bulk and speed. It got extremely cheap and predictable, to the point that some people quit because of it. Also, Sandstorm and Sun couldn't stop it because T-Tar, Ninetales and Hippowdon were hit super effectively by Water attacks. It vastly outperformed other teams, that the metagame was starting to build around Rain and Drizzle. I don't agree with Smogon all the time- I found the Salamence ban during the end of Gen 4 annoying- but they did something right this time. And Drizzle is still a viable strategy, and Rain Stall is effective to a degree. There are other ways of taking advantage of the Rain, specifically the 100% accurate Thunder.

Now, you may be thinking, 'Why not Sandstorm or Sun?' I'll talk about the Sun first. The Sun, while it provides a similar number of Pokemon with Speed boosts, is different than the Rain because the Chlorophyll Pokemon are Grass types, meaning they don't get both their STAB bonus and Weather bonus at the same time. Also, some Chlorophyll Pokemon are still outsped after the doubled Speed because of their low base Speed. Grass type is not a spectacular attacking type, unlike Dragon and Water; this is one of the key reasons Sun is not banned. This means unlike Rain, you can't spam your STAB and have your opponent say 'gg'.

Sandstorm is slightly more controversial, but it isn't enough to get it banned. Sandstorm is not as offensive as Rain or Sun, because its bonuses are given to Special Defence, and only to Rock types. Also, its special abilities, namely Sand Veil, Sand Throw and Sand Force, are either only annoying or have very limited distribution. Excadrill and Landorus are the only notable sweepers that get abilities that boost their sweeping power. Therefore, Sandstorm mainly revolves around Stall and defence.

Hopefully this cleared things out a little, Charizard Michelle. And I respect your decision to not follow Smogon tiering, Mr420, but do you really want to have your team destroyed by Darkrai and its Choice Scarfed Dark Void?

Viva la Gofre
03-07-2011, 05:47 PM
Siding with latisblings on this one, if you spent any time attempting to ladder on 5th gen servers prior to the banning of drizzle/swift swim combos, you will know that rain makes attempting to do consistently well virtually impossible. Unless you are packing a weather team yourself, you are almost always going to lose against rain teams. It was really overcentralising, not fun or fair to play against, and generally screwed over the stability of the new metagame.I'd have rather seen inconsistent stay over this debacle.

But yeah, my thoughts on the metagame so far are that offence teams of any variety are certainly the way to go. Power creep has well and truly come through this gen, whether it be the powerful new sweepers or the variety of new threats created through dream world. Stall isn't dead by any stretch, but it's a lot harder to pull off this time round. Overall, however, I much prefer this metagame to 4th gen, play appears to be more dynamic now that OU is beginning to stabilise. As soon as proper UU and NU tiers are established I'll be a happy man.

On a separate note, a banlist has been in places for a couple of months now. It's still being refined as time goes on, but it wasn't as recent an implementation as you think OP =P

Badal
03-07-2011, 05:55 PM
I am aware, but they came up with the final announcement only recently. Also, this forum was created only recently thus my topic being that way.