PDA

View Full Version : Starting with all 3 starters?


Natolio
03-04-2011, 05:10 PM
I don't want to raise any hopes here, I'm not going to say there is a special way you can do this other than trading haha. I was just wondering if it is going to be worth my time getting a second DS and both Black/White versions of the game so I can have all 3 starter pokemon from near enough the beginning of the game? I know that eventually I will need to get a hold of all 3, but I'm just wondering if they are worth the effort?

Basically what I am saying is are starter pokemon actually any good? I remember Charizard used to be good. But then I haven't played since Gold/Silver, and I didn't have the internet back then, so he was probably rubbish haha.

Like I said I have just got back into the games after a LONG time of not playing, and I am finding it to be a MASSIVE information overload. There are all kinds of things that I have never heard of like:
EVs / IVs
Natures
Shiny Pokemon <- what are these? Just different coloured pokemon? How do you get them? Randomly?
Abilities
etc etc

Thanks in advance

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 05:14 PM
Yes, it would be worth having the starters.

- Long live Negima!

TrollShammy80
03-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Yes I do believe all three starters will have uses somewhere in the battling world, just depends how well you raise them :)

Skylands
03-04-2011, 07:53 PM
You could always borrow a sibling or friend's DS, though. That's what I usually do. If you are unable to, then yes go right ahead and get yourself another DS.

White_Rabbit
03-04-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't want to raise any hopes here, I'm not going to say there is a special way you can do this other than trading haha. I was just wondering if it is going to be worth my time getting a second DS and both Black/White versions of the game so I can have all 3 starter pokemon from near enough the beginning of the game? I know that eventually I will need to get a hold of all 3, but I'm just wondering if they are worth the effort?

Basically what I am saying is are starter pokemon actually any good? I remember Charizard used to be good. But then I haven't played since Gold/Silver, and I didn't have the internet back then, so he was probably rubbish haha.

Like I said I have just got back into the games after a LONG time of not playing, and I am finding it to be a MASSIVE information overload. There are all kinds of things that I have never heard of like:
EVs / IVs
Natures
Shiny Pokemon <- what are these? Just different coloured pokemon? How do you get them? Randomly?
Abilities
etc etc

Thanks in advance

Well for starters (no pun intended), EV's/ IV's just help with battling if your rlly into it.
Natures are the same, and they define the EV's and IV's
Shiny pokemon are just trophies and are really rare. like 1/8492 or something. give or take a hundred
Abilities are like blastoise has torrent, which means its water attacks are stronger when health is low.

The three starter pokemon, depending on which set, are useful, and possibly worth your time, but its really a personal choice. if you really want to use the original starters for black and white then go for it. Every pokemon has its strengths and weaknesses, obviously. pretty much just look around for your favorites and check their stats.

Natolio
03-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Ok thanks guys :) Seems like a bit of a daft question on retrospect! Oh well haha. I am thinking I will get into the battling seriously. So do you HAVE to use items such as Iron and Protein to get the best stats out of your pokemon? If so how do I go about it? Do I just give them like 10 of each item and level it then repeat?

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 08:06 PM
I do not know much about EVs because when I play competitively, I just play by chance.

When playing the game, only use cash for 10 Pokeballs, Greatballs, or Ultraballs at a time. Don't waste on potions, you won't need half of them. Over time, your fortune should build up into unimaginable wealth, with which you can purchase the steroids xD

Oh, and one more post and you will have 10 posts! Congratz! xDDDDD

- Long live Negima!

Ant2011
03-04-2011, 08:10 PM
Ok thanks guys :) Seems like a bit of a daft question on retrospect! Oh well haha. I am thinking I will get into the battling seriously. So do you HAVE to use items such as Iron and Protein to get the best stats out of your pokemon? If so how do I go about it? Do I just give them like 10 of each item and level it then repeat?

Giving it 10 of the vitamins only gives it 100 EVs in any stat. IVs, or Individual Values, are preset at birth. EVs, or Effort Values, come from battles. Any Pokemon can have a max of 510 EVs, with 255 max in one stat. 252 is all you'd need because the last 3 aren't ever counted in. EV training is useful if you want an abnormaly strong Pokemon. i.e. I just finished breeding a Rash Blastoise with 31 IVs in Special Defence. I EV trained it's Special Attack. My original Blastoise had 197 special attack at level 100, my new Blastoise has 272 Special Attack at level 100. And because it had 31 IVs in Special Defence the Rash nature didn't have a really bad side effect.

If there's anything you need help with, Serebii has a helpful page right here (http://www.serebii.net/games/mechanics.shtml) that helps explain the game mechanics.

Iconoclast
03-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Well, the starters are generally terrible when used competitively. There are rare exceptions, like Infernape for instance. I'd have to look at their moveset and stats more to give you a definite answer. So I say there's much better Pokemon out there than the starters.

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 08:15 PM
The starter is better than you think it is when used well. I managed to destroy a guy's level 100 Dialga with my level 93 Empoleon (no items used, even health).

- Long live Negima!

Iconoclast
03-04-2011, 08:33 PM
The starter is better than you think it is when used well. I managed to destroy a guy's level 100 Dialga with my level 93 Empoleon (no items used, even health).

- Long live Negima!

I'm talking about real competitive battling. Of course, there are exceptions (like Empoleon), but you never see Venusaurs or Typhlosions on competitive teams. Most people think the starters are good because that's usually what they level up the most. But there are much better choices out there.

Ant2011
03-04-2011, 08:36 PM
I'm talking about real competitive battling. Of course, there are exceptions (like Empoleon), but you never see Venusaurs or Typhlosions on competitive teams. Most people think the starters are good because that's usually what they level up the most. But there are much better choices out there.

True, but if one EV trains their starter, it can become a wrecking ball on the battlefield.

Orange_Flaaffy
03-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Meh, 'real' competitive battling is overrated to me. It's just so..set. There is seems to be only one 'right' way to raise each pokemon, certain pokemon/natures you should never use etc.
I'd much rather have the more random fun of pokemon raised the everyday in game way, where many pokemon have a chance of winning in the most unusual ways with sometimes odd movesets...

I'd say get all the starters if you want them, train them as you like, and don't feel as if you *have* to battle a certain way :)

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 08:41 PM
I'm talking about real competitive battling. Of course, there are exceptions (like Empoleon), but you never see Venusaurs or Typhlosions on competitive teams. Most people think the starters are good because that's usually what they level up the most. But there are much better choices out there.

Because what I was doing was not true competitive battling.

And wrong again. You would find that Typhlosion is almost unbeatable when used right.

- Long live Negima!

Iconoclast
03-04-2011, 08:57 PM
Meh, 'real' competitive battling is overrated to me. It's just so..set. There is seems to be only one 'right' way to raise each pokemon, certain pokemon/natures you should never use etc.
I'd much rather have the more random fun of pokemon raised the everyday in game way, where many pokemon have a chance of winning in the most unusual ways with sometimes odd movesets...

I'd say get all the starters if you want them, train them as you like, and don't feel as if you *have* to battle a certain way :)

No, you're looking at it the wrong way. Competitive Pokemon is no different than other competitive games. For instance, think of each character in Street Fighter as a Pokemon. They all have different styles, but you have to know your matchups against an opponent. You also have to know what moves to use in which situations. Same thing with Pokemon. What movesets, abilities, and items you use changes with each generation, since there's one hundred more of the critters to analyze and fight. And some Pokemon are just suited for certain roles. You don't see Blissey, one of the best special walls in the game, going offensive like a sweeper, do you?

"Random fun" doesn't win battles in the end. It's about strategy and skill.

Because what I was doing was not true competitive battling.

And wrong again. You would find that Typhlosion is almost unbeatable when used right.

- Long live Negima!

There are no unbeatable Pokemon. EVERY Pokemon has their weakness. Typhlosion simply doesn't have anything extraordinary going for him to qualify as a top player on an OU team. That's the thing with Pokemon, too- they have different metagames for their tiers. If other games did that, the world would be a better place.

Orange_Flaaffy
03-04-2011, 09:12 PM
No, you're looking at it the wrong way. Competitive Pokemon is no different than other competitive games. For instance, think of each character in Street Fighter as a Pokemon. They all have different styles, but you have to know your matchups against an opponent. You also have to know what moves to use in which situations. Same thing with Pokemon. What movesets, abilities, and items you use changes with each generation, since there's one hundred more of the critters to analyze and fight. And some Pokemon are just suited for certain roles. You don't see Blissey, one of the best special walls in the game, going offensive like a sweeper, do you?

"Random fun" doesn't win battles in the end. It's about strategy and skill.



There are no unbeatable Pokemon. EVERY Pokemon has their weakness. Typhlosion simply doesn't have anything extraordinary going for him to qualify as a top player on an OU team. That's the thing with Pokemon, too- they have different metagames for their tiers. If other games did that, the world would be a better place.
I don't see them as characters however, I see them as highly customizable fighters that, while some roles might be the *best* if you only tailor them in one way, that 'best' takes a lot out of of the freedom someone has to make their favorites anything they feel like making them. By locking a certain pokemon into one or two sets of things they can do, and pushing everything to that limit, much of that freeform fun of the games is lost IMHO.
Personally, I wish there were just as many players that enjoyed simply battling for its own sake, not with tailor made pokemon that are basically cookie cuttered to never lose (against most enemies within type reason), but with everyday ingame, maybe not even level 100 yet, pokemon teams one against another...

I know you guys work hard to raise the sort of pokemon you do, but that kind of battling simply isn't for me. I know this most likely sounds like a much younger players mindset, but when I do get to battle my other pokemon playing friends my own age, this sort of lighthearted battling is the norm :)

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-04-2011, 09:17 PM
No, you're looking at it the wrong way. Competitive Pokemon is no different than other competitive games. For instance, think of each character in Street Fighter as a Pokemon. They all have different styles, but you have to know your matchups against an opponent. You also have to know what moves to use in which situations. Same thing with Pokemon. What movesets, abilities, and items you use changes with each generation, since there's one hundred more of the critters to analyze and fight. And some Pokemon are just suited for certain roles. You don't see Blissey, one of the best special walls in the game, going offensive like a sweeper, do you?

"Random fun" doesn't win battles in the end. It's about strategy and skill.



There are no unbeatable Pokemon. EVERY Pokemon has their weakness. Typhlosion simply doesn't have anything extraordinary going for him to qualify as a top player on an OU team. That's the thing with Pokemon, too- they have different metagames for their tiers. If other games did that, the world would be a better place.

You said it yourself, there is no unbeatable Pokemon, so stop claiming starters would not make good competitive battlers, because if used right, they can be.

And what skill does it take for the game to randomly generate several numbers and statistically calculate whether or not your hyper beam hits or not? It takes no skill, you are right. And while we are on the matter of skill, why would it matter what Pokemon one has if they are so skillful? =D

- Long live Negima!

Orange_Flaaffy
03-04-2011, 09:19 PM
You said it yourself, there is no unbeatable Pokemon, so stop claiming starters would not make good uncompetitive battlers, because if used right, they can be.
I think no pokemon is beyond hope, as if you are about to win and a last pokemon has only a tiny bit of life left, even the weak ones by level alone can throw the winning blow :)

About random fun never winning battles in the end, I have a few frozen water pokemon that would like to talk about that ;D
Maybe random fun never won against maxed out pokemon with killing set up movesets\natures you're right ^.^ (more power to them for being amazing), but I wasn't talking about those at all, just normal, caught by chance in the wild pokemon, raised on gyms and trainers in game...

I think all three B/W starters could do wonderfully. After all, starters are that for a reason, one of them being that they can be counted upon so well in many cases...

Iconoclast
03-04-2011, 10:31 PM
You said it yourself, there is no unbeatable Pokemon, so stop claiming starters would not make good competitive battlers, because if used right, they can be.

And what skill does it take for the game to randomly generate several numbers and statistically calculate whether or not your hyper beam hits or not? It takes no skill, you are right. And while we are on the matter of skill, why would it matter what Pokemon one has if they are so skillful? =D

- Long live Negima!

Yes, there are no unbeatable Pokemon. But there are unwinnable matchups. A level 100 Venusaur with optimal stats and moves will NEVER win against a level 100 Skarmory with optimal stats and moves. It's that simple. You can make them anyway you want. I'm telling you the way that will get you the best chance of winning. If you don't want to play competitive Pokemon, that's fine. However, don't think your level 100 Charizard with Blast Burn, Fly, Steel Wing, and Slash is going to get you anywhere.

bigboy
03-04-2011, 11:17 PM
Meh, 'real' competitive battling is overrated to me. It's just so..set. There is seems to be only one 'right' way to raise each pokemon, certain pokemon/natures you should never use etc.

I know it seems that way, and teams with blisseys dont help.:susp:
In fact some of the funnest times I had with competitive battles were when I caught the opponent off guard when I threw out a rotom and flashed the hell out it and had it hold bright powder. Now there are too many rules....

Anyway if you really want to screw with an opponent had a pokemon that can absorb attacks. Like if lapras is out and opponent uses thunder but the turn before you switch to a ground type then they use a fighting move but lucky for you switch to ghost.

I used to love using these strageties. And while it is true not every pokemon can hold their own they are still many UU that you can use and can pack a punch.

Pokemon Trainer Sarah
03-04-2011, 11:27 PM
I usually use all three starters at some point, because they tend to be my favourite Pokemon of any particular generation. I think they'd definitely be useful and you should be able to get through the game pretty easily with all three. As for IVS and natures etc., they're not really important if you're just playing through the game. If you like all the starters then you should go for it, but if not, I'm sure you could find and train other Pokemon who would end up just as good if not better. =)

Orange_Flaaffy
03-05-2011, 12:49 AM
I know it seems that way, and teams with blisseys dont help.:susp:
In fact some of the funnest times I had with competitive battles were when I caught the opponent off guard when I threw out a rotom and flashed the hell out it and had it hold bright powder. Now there are too many rules....

Anyway if you really want to screw with an opponent had a pokemon that can absorb attacks. Like if lapras is out and opponent uses thunder but the turn before you switch to a ground type then they use a fighting move but lucky for you switch to ghost.

I used to love using these strageties. And while it is true not every pokemon can hold their own they are still many UU that you can use and can pack a punch.
That's all I mean, just a little bit of spice. It gives more of a feeling of anime battling tome (without of course those moves they use that certain pokemon can't actually learn in the game)

Judgmental Arceus
03-05-2011, 01:49 AM
Not being a competative battler myself I can't argue any side of the matter. I do try my best to acquire every starter after my journey but concerning me playing Hoenn and Sinnoh, some starters are more suitable for some gameplay than others. I mean in the case of Unova: Snivy's line (though I'm no fan of Grass-types as they suck typewise) can hold a defensive set, Tepig's line can hold a more Physical-based attack set, and Oshawott's line can hold a Special-based attack set.

And for those who want to argue that starters suck competitively, tell that to Blaziken, Infernape, Empoleon, and Swampert.

Teddiursa of the Sky
03-05-2011, 07:05 AM
Yes, there are no unbeatable Pokemon. But there are unwinnable matchups. A level 100 Venusaur with optimal stats and moves will NEVER win against a level 100 Skarmory with optimal stats and moves. It's that simple. You can make them anyway you want. I'm telling you the way that will get you the best chance of winning. If you don't want to play competitive Pokemon, that's fine. However, don't think your level 100 Charizard with Blast Burn, Fly, Steel Wing, and Slash is going to get you anywhere.

You cannot say something of that sort, because it has happened before. Try watching battle casts on Youtube, and you will see some amazing and unlikely match ups. You can't make sweeping generalizations like that.

- Long live Negima!

Hikari10
03-19-2011, 04:05 AM
You could always borrow a sibling or friend's DS, though. That's what I usually do. If you are unable to, then yes go right ahead and get yourself another DS.

Yes, I often stole my brother's DS (he doesn't play it much anymore.) to trade Pokemon when I need to. That's how I got all the Johto starters in SoulSilver and all the Sinnoh starters in Pearl and Platinum. I'm getting both Black and White 'cos my brother just doesn't have any Poke interest anymore. I'm planning trading between both games so I can get all the starters.

PokeMech
03-19-2011, 05:18 AM
To the OP poster, do you really need all three starter to be good in game? No. I didn't even use my starting pokemon after I got about 1/4 of the way through the game. You can find better pokemons out there for in-game...and competitive use. If you want to really battle. and I mean serious online, 6 on 6 competitive battles where you have reasonable chance of winning. You have to learn to breed, EV train, and start reading up on strategies and movesets and team building. Or you can learn to use Pokesav or Pokegen.

Professor Geoffrey
03-19-2011, 05:28 AM
What would really be cool is if the third version for Black and White did what they did in Pokémon Yellow, as Black and White can obviously seen as a new beginning parallel to Red and Blue/Green. For example, make a girl/boy character be the sibling, and Cheren, Bianca and the sibling choose the starters, and you get some other Pokémon, for instance, Zorua or Emolga. That would be interesting. o:

^ By the way, this is an idea for a fanfiction I'm doing, so no one steal it. Unless you're the Pokémon company, because you've already stolen my ideas. =/

~Professor Geoffrey

Tsujin
03-19-2011, 07:11 AM
What would really be cool is if the third version for Black and White did what they did in Pokémon Yellow, as Black and White can obviously seen as a new beginning parallel to Red and Blue/Green. For example, make a girl/boy character be the sibling, and Cheren, Bianca and the sibling choose the starters, and you get some other Pokémon, for instance, Zorua or Emolga. That would be interesting. o:

^ By the way, this is an idea for a fanfiction I'm doing, so no one steal it. Unless you're the Pokémon company, because you've already stolen my ideas. =/

~Professor Geoffrey

Lol, that would be pretty awesome. And then you got all 3 starters from different people and then could add the building from the anime into the game somewhere. Like the Battle Building where Ash got Pokab...erm I mean Tepig from. And then getting Snivy after seeing someone abandon it like Charmander. I don't know about Oshawott though. It just kinda followed Ash. xD Wonder how you would play that out. It'd be interesting to see who the new Pikachu would be if that were the case though.

Saraibre Ryu
03-19-2011, 08:31 AM
Yes, there are no unbeatable Pokemon. But there are unwinnable matchups. A level 100 Venusaur with optimal stats and moves will NEVER win against a level 100 Skarmory with optimal stats and moves. It's that simple. You can make them anyway you want. I'm telling you the way that will get you the best chance of winning. If you don't want to play competitive Pokemon, that's fine. However, don't think your level 100 Charizard with Blast Burn, Fly, Steel Wing, and Slash is going to get you anywhere.

You really shouldn't generalize. The Pokemon games are NEVER that simple. Optimal Pokemon is within the eye of the beholder. All the Pokemon I have are optimal in my eyes, but in another's, they may not be.

I've had my in-game improperly EV trained, not really ideal natured Charizard take out an Arceus online on her own. I've had my Ariados take out LATIOS, had my Flareon make fools of Garchomp, and I've had my Torterra pull out a win against a two on one double battle match against a Ice Beam spamming Milotic, and status effect abusing Crobat, to name a few examples. I'm sure you'd would of thought the other would of won but that isn't the case Mr. Unwinnable match ups.

And no, I am no cheater, there is no fun in cheating and I wasn't battling noobs who didn't know what they were doing either.

You can be surprised about what people come up with outside the competitive battling mold. I honestly look at the molds people have set as a standard and try not to use them. I like being creative and thinking outside the box, and I still manage to win many battles, however Pokemon isn't all about winning, it's about having fun.

My 'random fun' has won me plenty of battles in competitive areas and I think it's because it's not what people expect. What takes skill is being able to use an unthought of moveset effectively, not what everyone else is gonna use for the same Pokemon. If everyone uses the same thing and is told how to use it, that's not skill, that's following someone elses steps. Someone makes a good moveset, then everyone follows because it's the 'best'.

You play with your favorites, and they work for you. I work hard to make my Pokemon work for me and even though they don't follow this competitive mold, they do very well when I bother to visit the place.

If all three starters appeal to you, I say hell yeah, go for it.

Pokemon Master draco
03-23-2011, 12:34 PM
tbh i have all 3 starters on black only because of pokedex, i beat game with oshawott,reset and used my catch trainer pokemon action replay code to catch cheren and biancas starters at lvl 5... they look legit as well, found in twinleaf town,ot is my name all are met at lvl 5 etc.