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View Full Version : Do you belive in clinical immortality?


Bashaamo
10-02-2005, 06:34 PM
This debate is over the possibility of survivng past your natural life through clinical and or technological methods. This is not a debate like "is there a soul" or "heaven and hell" debate.

Some people (many actually) think that soon as in this century we will have the technology to keep someone alive forever. This will be accomplished by one or more ways. One possibility is that "nanobots" which are very small robots will take over the functions of human cells -including brain cells. And eventually these bots will be able to map the data of your brain, then send it to a clone body, or computer giving you "digital immortality." However this theory depends on Strong AI which is that supercomputers will be able to carry out independent thought, and that the human mind is no more than a computer program that can be simulated and replicated.

A second way to immortality could be through cloning cells and tissues and altering human genes to slow and prevent the aging process. In many ways we are well on this particular path already, the average life expectancy for human beings is up tremendously from what it was 100s of years ago. But do you think that we can eventually stop aging and dying?

Discuss those two ideas and their future implications. What moral and ethical problems will arise? Do you think that immortality is near as some say, or centuries away if possible at all? If you are religious do you think your god would be mad that you cheated death? Anyone not want to live forever?

I'll share my opinions later.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 06:36 PM
Why would someone want to live forever? That's the stupidest idea ever, not being able to die. That'd be like Hell on Earth i'd rather die at my natural age than live forever. :oops:

Pika57
10-02-2005, 06:50 PM
Note: I'm not experienced at this but to anyone new to this area its often better to back up opions.

my opinions on this topic are mixed. I personally would not wish to live forever. I beleive that to some extent life would become boring and dull. And if I decided to try and live forever and then just decided to quit whatever it is, it would be to some extent suicide which is against the law and to most unethical. I beleive that perhaps it will eventually be possible but it may be impossible for the simple fact to keep man mortal.

My 2 cents. Yeah i'm new to this.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 06:53 PM
Plus no one can live forever, you body would age, your bones would wither away, and you're bound to get killed in someway, weither it's been hit by a car to having something like Cancer.

Pika57
10-02-2005, 06:58 PM
Plus no one can live forever, you body would age, your bones would wither away, and you're bound to get killed in someway, weither it's been hit by a car to having something like Cancer.

Of course you did read the first post didn't you? He explained how that could be avoided. Please read the entire first post of a thread.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 07:10 PM
Then it's no different from being a zombie. We were made this way, we arn't meant to live forever, and i doubt they have found a way to stop your bone's from withering.

Pika57
10-02-2005, 07:16 PM
Then it's no different from being a zombie. We were made this way, we arn't meant to live forever, and i doubt they have found a way to stop your bone's from withering.

His first method would basically be getting you a new body. So it would indeed bypass the withering and aging.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 07:18 PM
Basically, if they did this to you, you'd no longer be human, you'd be a newly invented creature.

Pika57
10-02-2005, 07:22 PM
Basically, if they did this to you, you'd no longer be human, you'd be a newly invented creature.

Actually you would'nt be a new creature. You'd be a clone retaing all memories belonging to whoever you were a clone of so technically you'd be a cloned human.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 07:24 PM
A Human is meant to last around 100 year's, not forever, if they edit the human genetic's you arn't a human anymore, which is what they are doing.

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-02-2005, 07:33 PM
Goody, a discussion... Thanks Bash. My discussion thread at Shack is dyin'.

Some people (many actually) think that soon as in this century we will have the technology to keep someone alive forever. This will be accomplished by one or more ways. One possibility is that "nanobots" which are very small robots will take over the functions of human cells -including brain cells. And eventually these bots will be able to map the data of your brain, then send it to a clone body, or computer giving you "digital immortality." However this theory depends on Strong AI which is that supercomputers will be able to carry out independent thought, and that the human mind is no more than a computer program that can be simulated and replicated. First of all, let's see this economically. Which selfconcerned company would want to stretch the live of a poor, stinking, stupid homeless person? No one! This method would take a lot of computer strength, thus being very costly. So only the Rich and Shallow, would be able to stretch their lifespan. Secondly, let's see this morally. No selfproclaimed religious person would want to live in a artificial body. Heck, most of them want to see their chiefs up in the sky, when they die.

A second way to immortality could be through cloning cells and tissues and altering human genes to slow and prevent the aging process. In many ways we are well on this particular path already, the average life expectancy for human beings is up tremendously from what it was 100s of years ago. But do you think that we can eventually stop aging and dying?Economicaly: cloning can be made a hell lot cheaper. Let's see it costed millions to clone Dolly, but if the research was started 10 years later, the research would have costed 2/3 millions less. Eventually you could clone in your backyard. Heck, it's just heaping a bunch of molecules.
Religously: Thou can't be a creator... Must I say more?

Overal Personal Opinion: I find death a inevitible reaction to birth. Heck, I don't want to outlive my grandchildren(if I get them). That isn't natural.

A Human is meant to last around 100 year's, not forever, if they edit the human genetic's you arn't a human anymore, which is what they are doing.OMG, I'm 2% different from you genetically spoken, and I'm still human. If one was to mess with .01%, it wouldn't even be sqaut.

Yggdrasill
10-02-2005, 09:12 PM
Infact, it wouldn't only be 0.1%, to live forever they have to change the genetic's of:
1. Your skin
2. Your Organ's
3. Your Bone's
4. Your Brain
5. Your D.N.A
which i would say is around 90% of important part's in your body. Still think it's 0.1% now?
Who'd want to live forever though? Life would get boring and you'd eventually go insane.

Pika57
10-02-2005, 10:23 PM
Infact, it wouldn't only be 0.1%, to live forever they have to change the genetic's of:
1. Your skin
2. Your Organ's
3. Your Bone's
4. Your Brain
5. Your D.N.A
which i would say is around 90% of important part's in your body. Still think it's 0.1% now?
Who'd want to live forever though? Life would get boring and you'd eventually go insane.
Have you read the first post with the cloneing theory yet! the one where you don't alter ANYTHING!

All-Star
10-02-2005, 10:54 PM
The only way I would want to live forever is if God wasn't real. Which in my beliefs, he is. ^_^

Bashaamo
10-03-2005, 12:42 AM
Damn, I was hoping I'd have someone of the opposing viewpoint here to debate.

The only way I would want to live forever is if God wasn't real. Which in my beliefs, he is. ^_^

I've considered this, but there is no way to prove that there is not a god for certain, but why would you want to live a meaningless life forever? And lets not forget that cosmic doomsday could eventually kill off all the immortals (Big rip, heat death of the universe, etc.).

Basically, if they did this to you, you'd no longer be human, you'd be a newly invented creature.

They call this new creature "Transhuman" or "Post-huamn." The terms cyborg may also apply.

First of all, let's see this economically. Which selfconcerned company would want to stretch the live of a poor, stinking, stupid homeless person? No one! This method would take a lot of computer strength, thus being very costly. So only the Rich and Shallow, would be able to stretch their lifespan. Secondly, let's see this morally. No selfproclaimed religious person would want to live in a artificial body. Heck, most of them want to see their chiefs up in the sky, when they die.


The proponents of this technology, namely Ray Kurzweil says that by the time this beings to hit the market that the economy will be completley unrecognizable by our standards today, and that nearly everyone who wants immortality could get it. He also says immortality is like cell phones: There are early adapters and skeptics, but overtime everyone will get one.


Overal Personal Opinion: I find death a inevitible reaction to birth.

Hmmm...interesting. If there is a reaction without its equal/opposite...what implications could this have.

==My Opinion==

I hate the idea of death and dying, I am Christian but still death is scary to me. I don't want to die. But is death worse then loss of humanity? And could computers even act as brains? What if all your memories are uploaded to a PC, is this you or just an imitation. What happesn to YOU?

And things like anti-aging are still not going to assure you life forever. A 535-year-old mans throat could be slit just as easily as a 35-year-old. So would this lead to a paranoid society where everyone is too afraind to leave their home for fear of death? What would become of human compassion and brotherhood, let alone courage?

Both senarios suck IMO, either give up humanity, or give up human values.

The way I see it humans are always looking for immortality. It is our fundemental motivation. If we take a look at history we can see that in ancient times people turned to the gods for afterlife, and for some cultures having children was your way of being immortal. And the Egyptians actually tried to preserve the body for resurection. In later times people began to search for the "fountain of youth" for immortality.

I feel that clinical immortality may be the new fountain of youth, humans afraid of death looking for immortal life. But now not through religion or magic, but science. It seems logical as we progress through time, but still come on...lets just accept death and enjoy life. God or no God, eternal life or short life, it is still life. As the atheist Bertrand Russel once said:

"I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting"

lets continue this discussion.

Hypocrisy is Fun
10-03-2005, 03:50 AM
I have maney things to say about this one. First of all, why would anyone want a clone of themselves to live forever? Isnt that what a line of desendants are for? I don't think that if people could do this, they would. I don't belive that it would be needed. If you really want to live forever you must be really afraid of death. Why live forever? Think about living for over a thousand years...Wouldent you be somewhat tired of "life"? Im not saying you would want to kill yourself, but its clearly written in the Bible that God did not want anyone to live past the age of 118. I am Catholic, and some people call me a religious man, so I would not want to stay alive, but pass on and let my desendants do the rest.

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-03-2005, 05:37 AM
but its clearly written in the Bible that God did not want anyone to live past the age of 118. I feel a "oooh" coming up after you click this link. Guinness Book of Records: Oldest Female, 122 years and 164 days. (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=48373)

Infact, it wouldn't only be 0.1%, to live forever they have to change the genetic's of:
1. Your skin
2. Your Organ's
3. Your Bone's
4. Your Brain
5. Your D.N.A
which i would say is around 90% of important part's in your body. Still think it's 0.1% now?
You know how dumb that just sounded, no offence. Take an baby, mix it's DNA, which consist of millions of amino-acids and is it's genetics, and voila! You have made a baby, which ages slowly. Just need to take out the cellulair selfdestruct gen.

The proponents of this technology, namely Ray Kurzweil says that by the time this beings to hit the market that the economy will be completley unrecognizable by our standards today, and that nearly everyone who wants immortality could get it. He also says immortality is like cell phones: There are early adapters and skeptics, but overtime everyone will get one. The world is somewhat crowded already, why do economic gurus want to keep all the poor, good for nothing people. They are just roadblocks. So they'll just keep the rich/good people, and let the others die a natural death. Okay, I agree. It sounds a lot like racisme, but mankind has always walked this path out of greed.

Bashaamo
10-03-2005, 07:13 PM
Some Biblical lifespans are huge, Adam almost made 1000!

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/livelong.html

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-03-2005, 07:32 PM
OOH, forgot something in the previous post, but I'm just to lazy to edit it..


Infact, it wouldn't only be 0.1%, to live forever they have to change the genetic's of:
1. Your skin
2. Your Organ's
3. Your Bone's
4. Your Brain
5. Your D.N.A
which i would say is around 90% of important part's in your body. Still think it's 0.1% now?
Your skin is nothing more than a gazzilion identical cells; they are like a fly in space compared to the space they take in your genetic structure. Same goes for point 2,3 and 4 of your list. Don't get me started on point 5...:crackup:

Zenaku
10-04-2005, 02:59 PM
The aging process... More specifically, the aging of cells... The process in which cells weaken, after reaching their peak usage, causing the body to wither. Theoretically, if the weakening of cells can be avoided, then the body itself will not weaken. If the body does not weaken, the body will not die.

Cells, as mentioned however, have a self-destruct program, however this is merely to manage cells (If the program fails, new cells will continue to be created, without old cells dying, which I believe is defined as cancer).

With aging, it's not just merely cells getting weaker, but also new cells being created being weaker than the previous. This only happens, of course, when the body reaches its peak.

As far as genetic changes go, there is a condition which can affect humans, albeit rare. This condition slows the aging process (From what I know, a 28 year old affected by the condition looks like a teenager). The answer to preventing the aging process may lie in said condition, providing the condition also slows down the natural signs of aging along with merely slowing down bodily growth.

If cells, both existing and those to be created, were to keep the exact same form after reaching a certain growth point, it might be possible for the fated weakening of bodily cells to be avoided, possibly giving a "natural immortality". I use the term "natural", as "true immortality" would be the same as the gods of legend, in which they cannot be killed (With exception in few circumstances).

Despite my lack of religious beliefs (I'm an atheist, after all), from my point of view, any religious believer who claims they would turn away immortality should take a damn good look at their beliefs; the belief in heaven and hell - a place within which your soul will reside after death - is no different than wishing for immortality, for the beliefs themselves are a comfort from death (i.e. Your body dies, but you live on in the next world). Is attaining immortality on earth truly so different than attaining immortality in the next life? If anyone answers this, please don't say "God is right", or something which claims that immortality in the form of afterlife is morally correct. I want to know what's so different about the two versions of "immortality", god or no god.

Personally, however, I am unsure as to whether or not I would wish to live in this world for the rest of Earths lifespan. If immortality would allow me to achieve my dreams and desires, then I would likely consider it. There are many reasons as to why one would wish for immortality, and I would prefer that no-one asks me what my dreams and desires are, personally. If I achieve them, you'll know.

Bashaamo
10-04-2005, 07:27 PM
I mentioned why clinical immortality would not be preferable to "holy" (if you will) immortality the way we like to think of this.

If you achive immortality here on earth you can still be killed by accidents, murder, disease, amoung other things. Don't forget that terrorism will still be here in the future, and WMD get increasingly more deadly.

So even if one can live forever, they would feel a sense of paranoia and fear of themselves and fellow men and women. An "immortal" has much more to loose then your average Joe, especially if that said Joe has faith. Look at what terrorists do for faith. So being "immortal" would likely mean being afraid of death in all its ugly forms (after all fear of death is why you choose immortality in the first place). So in many ways you exchange your eternal life for your hummanity.

And also on a relate note most Christians don't belive in spending eternity in heaven, ultimately we hope that the Earth is permanently restored to Eden-like conditions. Thus God would allow humans to live forever "naturally" like you said Zenaku

Dog of Hellsing
10-05-2005, 08:59 PM
Hmmmm. Well, here's my belief on the subject, for what it's worth ^^.

I personally would NOT want to live forever, whether or not it would be possible by technology or some advance in human engineering or whatever. I mean, who would want to outlive their family and friends? Not only that, say that you somehow became truly "immortal" and unable to die (just go with it for a moment). If something happens to the planet, I doubt it would be pleasent floating through space. And you may also be alone, if you really think about it. I think that'd be worse than anything else.

About the whole religion thing: I'm Wiccan, so my belief is when I die I'll go to the Sommerland and when I'm ready, I'll be reborn into a new life. It may or may not be true, but I don't really fear death because I believe it's not really "the end," so to speak. At any rate, no matter what happens when we die, I still wouldn't want to live forever.

Hypocrisy is Fun
10-06-2005, 02:49 AM
[QUOTE=DaRkUmBrEoN]I feel a "oooh" coming up after you click this link. Guinness Book of Records: Oldest Female, 122 years and 164 days. (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=48373)

(For some reason I cant quote you...)

Toshay (I cant spell) but notice how I said WANT. They didnt have the same medicine, in the begining of time you know.

Sudo
10-06-2005, 06:44 PM
Living forever?

nah, that would be boring, i wanna see what the after life feels like, eventualy...

Dog of Hellsing
10-06-2005, 07:42 PM
Yes, living forever would be very boring.

And SL...you forgot the [/QUOTE] part of the HTML ^^, so that's why it didn't quote properly.

Yggdrasill
10-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Living forever?

nah, that would be boring, i wanna see what the after life feels like, eventualy...
I agree, life would lose all meaning eventually, plus, people wouldn't want to see their family dying around them.

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-06-2005, 08:59 PM
Toshay (I cant spell) but notice how I said WANT. They didnt have the same medicine, in the begining of time you know. Yeah, and Adam grew up to be 900+, without conventional medicine.... Just read the link in Bashaamo's post.

Yggdrasill
10-06-2005, 09:18 PM
Was it because Eve ate the apple, thus started to age and Adam didn't? I'm not a big genius on the Bible. :oops: Anyway i believe living forever is wrong, you'd be like a God, remember in the Ten Commandment's it said 'Never think youself as a God or a Idle' which techically you'd be doing. By thinking your invincible and all. God created the afterlife for a reason, that's why people die.

MystiKal
10-07-2005, 01:40 AM
I'm Wiccan

Hahahahaha, you might want to pick a more non bogus religion.

Bashaamo
10-07-2005, 03:11 AM
Hahahahaha, you might want to pick a more non bogus religion.

Nice Contribution...

Surly Professor
10-08-2005, 01:27 AM
Imagine the effect this would have on the already explosive population.
Well, at least we have a long time before any of these technologies are up to the task. And hopefully by the time they are mankind will be in living in space, and we will have all of the room we need for that kind of growth.

I think there will always be people willing to do it. It's a scary notion, no doubt, but the curiosity of being able to see what the next generation holds will be too great for some to resist. Human beings have always gone to extraordinary lengths to extend their lives, and they will continue to do so as the technology gets better & better.

Imagine an immortal scientist on par with Euclid, Leonardo, or Einstein with all of eternity to work, and contribute to the knowledge of mankind. What would these men be doing today if they were allowed to work unhindered by the mortal coil. I imagine a eutopia of scientific awareness. A new dawn for humanity as living gods.

Have any of you heard of "the singularity"... no not in a blackhole.
"The singularity" or "techno-rapture" is a not clearly defined actually, but it's basicly a future time when our accelerating societal, scientific, and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective. But it is hypothesized that in this future time nano & genetic technologies will be so advanced and affordable that nearly every person will have at least some augmentation. A time where you can literally live out your fantasies. If you want to have huge bat wings, and carry an "enchanted" staff. It would be quite possible through technology.

Now that I think about it; I'm not sure if living immortality will be the cause or the effect of the singularity.:alien:

Sorry for the rambling, I find this utterly fascinating. And to answer the original question: yes, I believe in it.

Hypocrisy is Fun
10-08-2005, 07:56 AM
Yeah, and Adam grew up to be 900+, without conventional medicine.... Just read the link in Bashaamo's post.
Im guessng you didnt read Genisis because God said her didnt want them to live past 118 a bit after Adam died. Go ahead look it up, I know what im talking about.

BTW-I did put the other quote thingy, it comes up invisible for some reason, oh well.:oops:

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-08-2005, 01:02 PM
Im guessng you didnt read Genisis because God said her didnt want them to live past 118 a bit after Adam died. Go ahead look it up, I know what im talking about. Since I'm a muslim, no I haven't read Genisis. And I hardly think God would put you in Hell, if you become 118 and a day old. "Life's a gift, given by Him. He can grant it and take it...": thus says a Catholic friend of mine.

Imagine an immortal scientist on par with Euclid, Leonardo, or Einstein with all of eternity to work. An immortal Hitler!!!! Welcome to Hell, y'all!

Dog of Hellsing
10-08-2005, 05:35 PM
>> For one thing, don't bash someone else's religion just because of your own insecurities or what the hell ever. This discussion isn't about whether someone's religion is "bogus" so stick to the damned topic already.

I guess it depends on where a person stands really. Some people might really like to see what it's like to live forever, or for at least a few centuries. I personally just wouldn't like it. I would hate to outlive everyone I care about and all.

Nasty Plasty
10-08-2005, 05:37 PM
I dont beleve in immortality. I only beleve in Life after death.

Surly Professor
10-08-2005, 09:05 PM
An immortal Hitler!!!! Welcome to Hell, y'all!

"You take the good,
You take the bad,
You take 'em both and there you have,
The facts of life."

But my Abraham Lincoln clone will take on your Hitler clone anytime.

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-08-2005, 09:17 PM
You thought up that poem by yourself?

Hmm... An Honest Abe clone,... The potentials would be limitless. No more getting robbed in stores, with wrong change... Put Abes in every store, that way your money is worth more.

Surly Professor
10-08-2005, 11:04 PM
lol, that's the Facts Of Life theme song.

But, back on topic:

If people were to live forever, in perfect health. How would your brain handle all of the extra information? Once you got well past human life expectancy, would you eventually start running out of memory? :goofy:

Bashaamo
10-09-2005, 03:59 AM
Imagine the effect this would have on the already explosive population.
Well, at least we have a long time before any of these technologies are up to the task. And hopefully by the time they are mankind will be in living in space, and we will have all of the room we need for that kind of growth.

I hope that is the case. We have things like Terrorism, Nuclear Threats, Wars, AIDS, the impending Avian Flu epidemic, crime, natural disasters, etc. to worry about. We need to focus on the hear and now, the future will come, but not if we don't live for the present.

I think there will always be people willing to do it. It's a scary notion, no doubt, but the curiosity of being able to see what the next generation holds will be too great for some to resist. Human beings have always gone to extraordinary lengths to extend their lives, and they will continue to do so as the technology gets better & better.

It would be intersting to see what kind of people and from what demographics the "immortals" would be. However from just this thread alone a large majority is against it.

Imagine an immortal scientist on par with Euclid, Leonardo, or Einstein with all of eternity to work, and contribute to the knowledge of mankind. What would these men be doing today if they were allowed to work unhindered by the mortal coil. I imagine a eutopia of scientific awareness. A new dawn for humanity as living gods.

Have any of you heard of "the singularity"... no not in a blackhole.
"The singularity" or "techno-rapture" is a not clearly defined actually, but it's basicly a future time when our accelerating societal, scientific, and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective. But it is hypothesized that in this future time nano & genetic technologies will be so advanced and affordable that nearly every person will have at least some augmentation. A time where you can literally live out your fantasies. If you want to have huge bat wings, and carry an "enchanted" staff. It would be quite possible through technology.

Here is where I find your argument troubling. You mention the main reason for this would be hummanity trying to be gods. Is this what we want? We already dominate our planet, what destruction could we do with unlimited power? And as another poster mentioned what is to stop "Techno-Hitler" from esnalving the non-immortals or something?

And yes I do know of the singularity as described in Ray Kurzweil's books. I think the term is poorly defined. Heck the rate of technology is already deveolping faster than I can keep up with.

The bat-man story you mention is another example of why I question the motives of transhuamists. Is there really a noble goal involved? Or would this just be the self-indulgent fuffiliment of fantasies, sexual or otherwise.

Is it worth killing off the human race so you can play make beilve inside a computer living a simulated existence?

Bashaamo
10-09-2005, 04:03 AM
lol, that's the Facts Of Life theme song.

But, back on topic:

If people were to live forever, in perfect health. How would your brain handle all of the extra information? Once you got well past human life expectancy, would you eventually start running out of memory? :goofy:

I've often wondered a similar senario. What if an advanced people (human or otherwise) is studing about the human experince sometinh like 20 Million years in the future? Would they learn anything about us now? Are any of our achivements monumental enough to be eternally remembered?

2wings
10-09-2005, 08:55 AM
Clinical Immortality? what is the world coming to, its the cycle of life.... new poeple are born old ones die. I rather face death and go to heaven than to be here on this Crime invested polluted planet, but it could wait till after i get to full fill my ambitions.

DaRkUmBrEoN
10-09-2005, 09:18 AM
I've often wondered a similar senario. What if an advanced people (human or otherwise) is studing about the human experince sometinh like 20 Million years in the future? Would they learn anything about us now? Are any of our achivements monumental enough to be eternally remembered?
Yeah, started to blow ourselves up with WMD. Some smarty German(Einstein) cracked the most trouble puzzle in existince, and we are on the breach of using up all availible oil. The things people often remember are the bad things.

2wings
10-09-2005, 09:41 AM
Scientists brought a dog back to life.... they said the're close to a break through to making dead people alive again.

Bashaamo
10-09-2005, 01:55 PM
Scientists brought a dog back to life.... they said the're close to a break through to making dead people alive again.

Well not so much a big thing. Dogs werne't the frist animals to be experimented on like that, and this process only saves animals a few hours after expiration and would likely render them brain dead.

Surly Professor
10-09-2005, 05:39 PM
It would be intersting to see what kind of people and from what demographics the "immortals" would be. However from just this thread alone a large majority is against it.

Yeah, I noticed that... wusses j/k.
By the time it gets here it won't be such a big leap though, our understanding of it would be better and it wouldn't be such a scary thought. People will be living longer and longer until it gets to a point where they just don't know how long you can go.
And at first I think it would be about staying healthy. Like: you can get this new 2.1 nano upgrade and it will prevent cancer, the natural side effect being a longer life.

Here is where I find your argument troubling. You mention the main reason for this would be hummanity trying to be gods. Is this what we want?

I didn't say that, I just said that with the best and brightest individuals working for the greater good of humanity on an immortal scale it would be a new age for humanity. I guess I should have left the word "gods" out, and used "beings of limitless potential" instead. "Gods" in the sense that we do not die, and with all of that time to work toward our goals hardly anything would be seen as impossible.
That's not really what we want, but it's a natural outcome from having the most powerful minds working for centuries on the advancement of sciences.

We already dominate our planet, what destruction could we do with unlimited power? And as another poster mentioned what is to stop "Techno-Hitler" from esnalving the non-immortals or something?

There will always be bad people looking to pee on the parade. Immortals toiling away for centuries on a master plan to enslave humanity; sounds like the next Blade movie.
((But seriously, do you really think it will be so divided? Haves & have-nots when it comes to immortality. Once the technology is up to speed, and it gets cheaper & cheaper I think nearly everyone will have it just to stay healthy. And like I was saying earlier it won't be a true immortality at first it will just be an extention in longevity, until we extend it so long that we just don't know how long it can last.))
Those bad immortals will always have good immortals to contend with. Just like now-a-days bad stuff's gonna happen, but it's not the end of the world. Surely there will be an equaly great force working for good to combat any evil man can conjure.

Now, lets all do the Techno-Hitler! :dance:

The bat-man story you mention is another example of why I question the motives of transhumanists. Is there really a noble goal involved? Or would this just be the self-indulgent fuffiliment of fantasies, sexual or otherwise.

Well, that was one of the most extreme examples I could think of. Most people would never become freaks like that, but if it's possible there are gonna be people wanting to do it. Have you ever been to Hollywood? It's apparent that there are already people who want to look freakish through surgery. Or those ladies in Africa that put plates in their lips or vices on thier heads to achieve their view of beauty. I once did a report on "body modification amputations" (do a search if you ever wanna get grossed out) and I've seen some of the extreme lengths people will go to to look the way they want.
No it's not noble it's completely selfish, and I won't defend it. But there are tons of things spawned by the same technology that will be. Enhance vision & hearing, haircut bots, & tougher bodies would probably be common place among immortals.

But imagine the future where there are actual "furries", lol.

Is it worth killing off the human race so you can play make beilve inside a computer living a simulated existence?

Whoa whoa, I don't wanna kill anyone. But I do like my WoW, lol.
I never said anything about a cyber world. Advanced gene manipulation, and nanotech could make these things a reality.

I've often wondered a similar senario. What if an advanced people (human or otherwise) is studing about the human experince sometinh like 20 Million years in the future? Would they learn anything about us now? Are any of our achievements monumental enough to be eternally remembered?

Oh certainly, our civilization would be of emense interest to anyone (human or otherwise). But, I think that the matter of the universe becoming alive & aware is certainly noteworthy enough. The fact that we exist, and contemplate, and hopefully understand the cosmos that we are made of is a truely amazing thing.

lalala
10-20-2005, 12:44 AM
While I dont have a religeon I dont belive in clinical immortality.

Everything comes and goes. Things that are perminate, or "immortal", are unnatural and should not be. Althought everyone in their lifetime has a desire to be immortal, eternal life wouldn't do you any favours.

With cloning, I think that you will never be the same person if you are cloned. Your experiences, upbrininging and everything about you make you who you are. Despite growing evidence that your DNA affects your personality, I think if you were cloned over and over you would become a different person. So all the geniuses and great people might not become what you want them to be. Which is their old selfs. So dont clone people to bring them to life again.

FrancisCGS
10-20-2005, 02:29 AM
Like the majority, I believe it is possible, but I disagree on making it happen. Today, a thing like this is widely accepted as unethical, and I'm predicting that it will be a difficult and long road to where spiritual religion and clinical immortality can coexist.

How will Earth support such a vast population? Or will we be on Mars by the time technology could make this feasible?

Cloning would be a strange experience for me. Letting your body die out and having your life being 'expanded' in another body filled with your memory, physical appearance, etc, to continue on. Memories would just be passed on from shell to shell.

Society would become extremely successful if we did keep all the great minds and gave them all the time in the world to just keep stacking the blocks. I don't know if all the destitute people would be looked as unimportant and useless, or would they just die off because our longevity would give everybody enough second chances and time to learn?

I personally prefer to finally repose in life, and die a natural death. I'd most likely consider technology prolonging my life like medicine does today, but to a reasonable extent. I am comfortable with dying like the many great men before me.

Steven
10-23-2005, 12:53 AM
Why would someone want to live forever? That's the stupidest idea ever, not being able to die. That'd be like Hell on Earth i'd rather die at my natural age than live forever. :oops:
That is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If you can live, living past your normal days wouldn't be like hell on earth in ANY way. Unless you are considering maxing out all your credit cards before you die or something, then it might be like hell on earth, or like life in prison. LOL. Other than that, you could have good and bad days forever and see how the world evolves and changes over time. It'd be a fantastic experience, I'd love to live for 300 years or more and see just what happens. Right now we're at the edge of science. I'd love to see what happens when we get into inhabiting other planets, having space flight available for the common man, and maybe even planting a tree and some day climb it.

Also, I do not believe it is possible to happen. Your clone would be the same, but you would still die. You might be able to preserve your memories, but you wouldn't be conciously in control of the clone. It's like twins. They look the same, but there isn't one person controlling them both similtameously. If I mold a bowl and create an exact replica of it, it still is a completely new bowl that shares a good resemblence. You would still die but no one would know.