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Orthar
01-22-2006, 04:55 AM
When our physical bodies are long gone, is are presence still here? Is there a heaven or hell, is there anything after this? Are we reborn in some other form? This question has been on my mind latley and here is my answer.

After we die there is nothing. There is black and I feel that our bodies would still feel in a physical presence way in the sense that we can see and hear but cannot move or make sounds and yet there will be nothing.

This is just one of the things that I belive might be

Phoenix dx
01-22-2006, 04:57 AM
When our physical bodies are long gone, is are presence still here? Is there a heaven or hell, is there anything after this? Are we reborn in some other form? This question has been on my mind latley and here is my answer.

After we die there is nothing. There is black and I feel that our bodies would still feel in a physical presence way in the sense that we can see and hear but cannot move or make sounds and yet there will be nothing.

This is just one of the things that I belive might be
If you are a muslim,you know the answer... and your answer is *nothing in muslim belief*

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 06:11 AM
After you die, you're no longer living. It's just a lack of life. What did it feel like before you were born? That's how you'll feel after you die.

Orthar
01-22-2006, 06:14 AM
Ah there's one way to think about it, but as you are in you mommies tummy your brain isn't fully devolped and therefore cannot determine the most basic of functions so if when we die we feel as if before we were born that means that we feel as we felt then, but how can we feel like that when we have no recolation of how that felt, how do we know that thiat is the feeling?

Neo Emolga
01-22-2006, 06:14 AM
After you die, you're no longer living. It's just a lack of life. What did it feel like before you were born? That's how you'll feel after you die.

Well, we didn't feel anything before we were born because we weren't created yet. But, that doesn't mean there won't be anything after death.

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 06:17 AM
Ah there's one way to think about it, but as you are in you mommies tummy your brain isn't fully devolped and therefore cannot determine the most basic of functions so if when we die we feel as if before we were born that means that we feel as we felt then, but how can we feel like that when we have no recolation of how that felt, how do we know that thiat is the feeling?
before you were born. Before you were conceived. Before you were even a separate sperm or an egg. How did you feel?

if you say you wouldn't know seeing as how your brain wasn't developed then, same deal after death. Your brain's gone. It decomposes into its various parts.

This isn't even a sensible debate question.



If anything, this is designed to rouse religious evangelism.

Mitsuko Souma
01-22-2006, 06:17 AM
I'm a strong supporter of the Christian religion, so I believe in heaven. I DO wonder sometimes, though, about reincarnation.

Finglonger
01-22-2006, 06:22 AM
Nobody knows..not even the almighty and wise sk does. You just have to wait...its best not to worry about it though, because you can read a hundred books on the subject, you can talk with the great scholars..and still have no friggin clue. It is fun to wonder though..

I'm reading Dante's Divine comedy right now...Its incredibly interesting to see how the western contemporary views of an afterlife can trace their roots all the way back to it. I'm only on the inferno right now, but I can see a very apparent connection..and its rather funny.

Neo Emolga
01-22-2006, 06:22 AM
I'm a strong supporter of the Christian religion, so I believe in heaven. I DO wonder sometimes, though, about reincarnation.

You could believe in both. You could believe in Reincarnation will be in order until the time of Revelation. But that's not what I personally believe...

Orthar
01-22-2006, 06:27 AM
Yes you could belive in REincarnation and heaven/Hell but they just wouldn't click. In reincarnation you never leave, you just come ack as another being or presence. So my new question is, if it is decided on what you end up as, would you have a say? Also, If when you die you feel as though before you were born then technicaly you are still alive, what about particles and organisims.(do any of you wanna take this into an AIM chatroom?)

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 06:29 AM
You could believe in both. You could believe in Reincarnation will be in order until the time of Revelation. But that's not what I personally believe...
ok ok ok. Let's just go over this sensibly.

To be "in" heaven you'd presumably have to have your thoughts there, because your body's obviously gone. Matter can't simply be created or destroyed, it just changes form. So your physical body stays "here." We know it stays here. The matter's there. The mass is there. Nothing has unexplicably left. For those of you wondering, the movie 21 grams was based on MacDougall's experiments that are in general ignored by most of the scientific community. So in order for you to go to "Heaven" or "hell" after death, only your thoughts would have to go to heaven. We don't know that much about the nervous system right now, but let's use what we do know. Assuming heaven is true, your thoughts would somehow be transferred to a place beyond dimensions. Alright, if we use Occam's Razor, this entire idea is ridiculous and should be dismissed, but let's just assume. But that would mean our thoughts would have to move. But what are our thoughts, our feelings, our senses? Well, if you're paralyzed, part of your nervous system breaks down. Does that part below your neck or below your hip go to heaven? When people suffer accidents and become mentally disabled, does that part of them go to heaven? When people suffer from amnesia, do their memories go to heaven? So how, then, can we presume that when your brain dies your thoughts go to heaven?



And of course, we can never truly know. But then again, can we truly know that if we drop something it will definitely fall? Do we truly know that there is gravity? Do we truly know that ____ historical event happened? No, but these are seen as facts because of logical reasoning derived from what we do know. These are the facts that require the fewest assumptions. For example, there are many ways to explain an apple falling. There's gravity which has been supported a lot, or there's the idea that microscopic leprechauns pull down an object when nothing is holding it up. Which one requires fewer ridiculous assumptions? There are many ideas to what happens after death. Which one requires fewest ridiculous assumptions?

Orthar
01-22-2006, 06:34 AM
I personally cannot find any flaws in there, I totally belive where you were coming from there, ok people lets keep this going

Finglonger
01-22-2006, 07:18 AM
well after looking up occam's razor that did make sense..heh.but yeah, I get where you're coming from, but I dont neccesarily agree with everything you say. Humans are very limited creatures in some respect.

Lets look at this from a broad point of view, when I was younger I kept a good number of fish as pets, they had a pretty sizeable tank as tanks go, but still I couldn't help but look at them, and wonder how they could possibly stand living in such a limited environment. In retrospect, the tank was probably all the knew...and could they really yearn for something that they had no conception of. Theres something that seperates humans from most other creatures..rational thought. But theres always a tank in which we are trapped. Back in the time of aristotle the simplest explanation for the stars in the sky were that they were crystal orbs, thousands of years ago the simple explanation was that the earth was flat, and in the 19th century Lamarckian inheritance made a lot of sense...besides it was the simple explanation. Simple explanations are not always the best ones. We as humans cannot conceive non-existence, because we have known only existence..we dont know pre-existence, nor do we know post-existence..we know only existence.

Rational thought is a curse, because we have the ability to conceive that someday we wont exist. Its comforting to think we will go somewhere afterwards, instead of rotting in the ground. But we can never know for certain...just because we cant detect a soul doesn't mean there isnt one.

But in the end we are all just fish in some larger tank..my fish were lord of their tank...until they died...then they were just floating corpses. Perhaps they thought of some grand ocean they might go to after death..when really we just flushed them down the toilet..and the only being that wept for their passing was a young boy who missed his scaly companions.

Frost Wolf
01-22-2006, 02:56 PM
hopefully there is a heaven......cause if i was reaaincarnated i would not know anyone from be4 and not remember anything of my past life,and i could be reincarnated as somethong/someone i wouldnt want to be......

Fossil Fusion
01-22-2006, 02:59 PM
thats funny we are doin "what happens when we die" (in religious in my skool) and i hope there is a heaven too.

Orthar
01-22-2006, 03:06 PM
BUt the wholle point is not if you hope their is a heaven it is if there is and if not, what can or would happen to us? Would we be lost endlessly in our life essence? Could our presence still be felt?Or are we just nothing more and none existant no where?

Miravana
01-22-2006, 03:15 PM
Heh, I like to think that when we die.. What we think is going to happen will happen.

If you think you're going to be reincarnated, you're going to be reincarnated. If you're a Christian, you'll either go to Heavan or Hell. Or if you dig Norse mythology, you'll hang out in Valhalla with the gods.

I think its a cute idea.

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 03:26 PM
well after looking up occam's razor that did make sense..heh.but yeah, I get where you're coming from, but I dont neccesarily agree with everything you say. Humans are very limited creatures in some respect.

Lets look at this from a broad point of view, when I was younger I kept a good number of fish as pets, they had a pretty sizeable tank as tanks go, but still I couldn't help but look at them, and wonder how they could possibly stand living in such a limited environment. In retrospect, the tank was probably all the knew...and could they really yearn for something that they had no conception of. Theres something that seperates humans from most other creatures..rational thought. But theres always a tank in which we are trapped. Back in the time of aristotle the simplest explanation for the stars in the sky were that they were crystal orbs, thousands of years ago the simple explanation was that the earth was flat, and in the 19th century Lamarckian inheritance made a lot of sense...besides it was the simple explanation. Simple explanations are not always the best ones. We as humans cannot conceive non-existence, because we have known only existence..we dont know pre-existence, nor do we know post-existence..we know only existence.

Rational thought is a curse, because we have the ability to conceive that someday we wont exist. Its comforting to think we will go somewhere afterwards, instead of rotting in the ground. But we can never know for certain...just because we cant detect a soul doesn't mean there isnt one.

But in the end we are all just fish in some larger tank..my fish were lord of their tank...until they died...then they were just floating corpses. Perhaps they thought of some grand ocean they might go to after death..when really we just flushed them down the toilet..and the only being that wept for their passing was a young boy who missed his scaly companions.

Yeah, I get what you mean about the flaws of Occam's Razor, but even your argument has a few problems. First of all, you claim that years ago, Occam's Razor supported the flat-earth model, as well as the geocentric model. Even without the aid of hindsight tho, it's clear that this wasn't true. Even years ago, Occam's Razor supported round-earth heliocentric. Why? Because the data was never consistent with the geocentric model, nor with the flat-earth. In order to believe in this kind of astronomy, you had to create elaborate explanations for everything; in fact, part of the reason Aristotle's model was dismissed was because Medieval scientists had to continually add unreasonable explanations to it. The only reason the geocentric was kept was because of religious belief. After all, these were extremely dark times where the only unifying force was the Catholic Church. If the dominating doctrine was that earth was a place of suffering, earth being in the middle, or the "lowest" ring made sense. However, this was seen as a given even though it was groundless. So because of a false given, Occam's Razor could not have possibly supported early astronomy. It's not so much a flaw with Occam's Razor as a flaw in its execution.

But in reality, we can't make unreasonable leaps of faith. We shouldn't be blinded to opposing beliefs either, but why believe in something when the only thing that supports it is circumstancial evidence? There are theoretically infinite explanations for any little thing, but there is a reason we believe in some and not others. Albeit, those explanations "cut" by Occam's Razor are still very "possible" but we don't believe in spaceships, unicorns, etc. for a reason. In order to believein an afterlife we'd have to assume that there's a divine entity, there's some place beyond dimension, that thoughts and feelings can somehow be transferred, that a divine entity would be willing to transfer those thoughts, etc. etc. etc. Too many "ifs". A belief in afterlife/reincarnations adds too many prerequisites but contributes an explanation that's no better and perhaps even worse than that of a belief that death is simply the end.

So, I'm completely open to the possibility of reincarnation or an afterlife. I have to admit it's even a plausible idea. But from looking at what I know and what I can deduce from that, it seems to me that nothingness after death is the most probable.

Paper Luigi
01-22-2006, 03:37 PM
It's fairly obvious! When we die, we have a funeral and then we are either buried or cremated! (Or we could be frozen... Or we could be used as a cadavour for university biology students... There are soooo many possibilities!)

Orthar
01-22-2006, 03:39 PM
This is a disuccion about after we die after all that stuff like tif there is an afterlife, this is a seriouse discussion so enless you have something intelligant to say

Alakazam
01-22-2006, 03:46 PM
I'm reading Dante's Divine comedy right now...Its incredibly interesting to see how the western contemporary views of an afterlife can trace their roots all the way back to it. I'm only on the inferno right now, but I can see a very apparent connection..and its rather funny.

That's amusing - I'm also in the middle of reading Inferno, and I know what you mean. 16th century religious views were so much more harsh than current dogmas.


---

First of all, Neo is right about that fact that none of us know (or could ever know while we're still alive), what happens to us after death. What this discussion is really about is what we believe happens after death.

Personally, I do believe that there is a Heaven and Hell, that death is only a natural part of life that one should look foreward to.

Though I do agree to an extent thatthe belief in the afterlife is connected to the support of evangelism, I think that this is a decidedly postive thing, rather than something to be shunned or scorned. As is true of all facets of faith, belief in Heaven and Hell really boils down to optimism. It's like they say "ignorance is bliss", and while I usually don't like that saying, I think its very appropriate for this topic.

Heaven may exist (as I believe it does), but whether or not you think it does doesn't change that. So why worry about it? Isn't it better to be optimistic, and try to live life to the fullest?

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 04:00 PM
Heh, belief in heaven & hell is optimism, and that optimism lets you live life to the fullest? Isn't it just the opposite? Doesn't a belief in afterlife encourage one to be content with mediocrity? Marx, for one, certainly believed that religion simply limited the proletariat. After all, if they're concerned with progressing into the afterlife, they're going to be fine with living crappy lives for just a few years (when compared with eternity). This "optimism" you speak of encourages laziness and tells people to be complacent with terrible living standards.

Oh, and of course, the idea of burning forever in hell is certainly optimistic. Yes, I really want to purge my sins through pain. Yes, so optimistic. That's going to encourage me to live life to the fullest, not to take every unnecessary method in order to avoid a hell that may or may not exist.

Also, you seem to be implying Pascal's Gambit. Ugh, I'll just point out some of its basic flaws before anyone else refers to it by name. It ONLY WORKS if the assumption is of a Christian God. Hey, guess what, if it's some other deity that looks upon heathens without mercy, guess what, you just wasted your life devoted to Christianity only to burn in hell. You're going to hell just like the other atheists, only you suffered during life on the belief that the afterlife would be better. Those who believed life was just life, though, enjoyed it cause they knew it was limited. Good Game.

Neo Emolga
01-22-2006, 04:30 PM
Donít get me wrong, the idea of reincarnation and Heaven co-existing is really just meant to be hypothetical, but itís pretty doubtful as SK already explained.

You may request for proof and ask ďI need to see it before I can believe itĒ but like Finglonger pointed out, we are in a limited context, a context that isnít privileged to see beyond dimensions or witness what is celestial. Even the Bible (whether you choose to believe it or not) explains that there are things we arenít meant to see. In the Old Testament, anyone who looked upon God would instantly die.

We can only just barely explore our own solar system, never mind what may exist many light years away. You can say that Heaven doesnít exist until thereís proof, but you canít prove that Heaven does not exist the same way around in the same context. So with that said, you canít deny that the perception of Heaven isnít a plausible idea. Many millions of people take refuge and security that such an idea of pleasure after life is over exists. And the same goes for losing it. If we really didnít believe in eternal happiness or eternal punishment, what really would stop people from killing anyone they pleased without prosecution of the law? If there was no such existence, then what force would be stopping and making people think twice about murdering someone? Why stop for human compassion or empathy when itís obvious the motive for revenge and greed is obviously taking prescient in the moment? What makes you wonder that in some of your lifeís most critical moments, faith in what can be there but not seen naturally comes into play? What makes you stop, what makes you reconsider, and drives you to make a different choice than what your pure anger is telling you to do?

Hence, thatís why I believe. Thereís something far, far beyond the normal guise of basic, feral human reactions and considerations. If there was no faith, then people would do whatever simple idea came to them, no matter how brutal it was. If people didnít believe in a world after death, some kind of reward for living an honest life, then what would be the purpose in being honest and truthful? Why not exploit every working facet of mankind to get whatever you wanted? Why not when you have nothing to lose if thatís what you believe?

Donít mind me saying this, but thereís a reason why we donít all butcher each other out of our own misguided selfishness with the thought that we have nothing to loseÖ

IT
01-22-2006, 05:01 PM
It's funny how people type such long posts about matters that don't really need to be discussed. Since none know what happens after you die, as was mentioned before, why waste your time debating...

As for my part, I don't really care what happens after I die, the people I love have already died as well, or stay alive after I have died and without people you love, there is no point in living. I would like to see Heaven, if there is one, and I myself believe there is the Heaven/Hell concept, but there's no point in kicking religions here because everyone believes what they want to and no one can change that.

Meh, I felt like that sounded extremely stupid after the intelligent posts of sk, Neo and Fing, but heck, that's just my opinion.

Incongruity
01-22-2006, 05:26 PM
before anyone gets insulted, let me just say that you shouldn't take meanings from my response that aren't actually there.


To NP: That's why I reiterate my belief that atheists have transcended natural limitations. Some people need religion so that they don't fall to their worst instincts. However, I think others don't need those kinds of beliefs, because they have a sort of intellectual mindset that encourages ethical and moral behavior without any real reason other than that it is the "right" thing to do. I, personally, don't kill or rape people because I can understand what it would be like if something was done to me. Some may need religion to replace that thought process, like Neo said. I don't. After a certain age, I think every person has the potential to evolve beyond this fable, but some do need it.


And if you seriously can't accept that some are naturally good, then the real reason we don't do certain things is because of social conditioning. Society breeds us to do this or do that. These morals may be based on religious ideas, but that doesn't certify an afterlife. Social constructs mold our psyche. Clearly, they can be broken, since people do kill, they do rape, they do go out of control, but in general, the pressures of society are enough to prevent someone from doing something. It could be a subconscious installation of the status quo, it could be the clear and present fear of the law. Whatever, we're all digressing from the point really; we're discussing the human psyche now and not the afterlife.


As with most religious debates, science explains a lot but it has its limits. Then we go to the "you can't prove this" "but you can't prove that it's not this" debate. But then again, can we really prove the nonexistance of anything? Can we really prove the nonexistance of leprechauns, unicorns, fairies? How do we know that hobbits don't hide themselves magically in the forest every time we are close to discovering their existence? The thing is, religion is designed to be inexplicable and thus beyond the realm of explanation. It's a myth deliberately designed to exist beyond everything that we see, hear, or deduce. If we're going to focus on the inability to prove or disprove anything, we certainly should not focus on Christian religion, one of infinite plausible ideas. In reality, the only difference between religion & superstition is that one is far more common.




IT: what, we can't even peacefully share our contrasting ideas anymore? Of course hardly anybody's going to change. Most people are stubborn, but they want to hear the views of their opponents, perhaps to solidify their own stance, perhaps to reconsider their own views. If we didn't think, if we didn't communicate, what would separate us from any other organism?

Alakazam
01-22-2006, 05:41 PM
Heh, belief in heaven & hell is optimism, and that optimism lets you live life to the fullest? Isn't it just the opposite? Doesn't a belief in afterlife encourage one to be content with mediocrity? Marx, for one, certainly believed that religion simply limited the proletariat. After all, if they're concerned with progressing into the afterlife, they're going to be fine with living crappy lives for just a few years (when compared with eternity). This "optimism" you speak of encourages laziness and tells people to be complacent with terrible living standards.

No, not at all. At least in Christian tradtion (and I also think this is one of the teachings that is common to most, if not all, religions), one should try to be as Christlike as possible, to ensure that one will go to Heaven. In that system, people are encouraged to do good, to make the most out of life. There are boundless examples if you don't believe me.

Oh, and of course, the idea of burning forever in hell is certainly optimistic. Yes, I really want to purge my sins through pain. Yes, so optimistic. That's going to encourage me to live life to the fullest, not to take every unnecessary method in order to avoid a hell that may or may not exist.

You seem to have missed the point completely, sk. If one is repetent, than they will not go to Hell. The belief in Hell can be seen as an icentive for repentance, a reason to act and live with goodness, tied to that optimism that one will be better off doing good than not.

Also, you seem to be implying Pascal's Gambit. Ugh, I'll just point out some of its basic flaws before anyone else refers to it by name. It ONLY WORKS if the assumption is of a Christian God. Hey, guess what, if it's some other deity that looks upon heathens without mercy, guess what, you just wasted your life devoted to Christianity only to burn in hell. You're going to hell just like the other atheists, only you suffered during life on the belief that the afterlife would be better. Those who believed life was just life, though, enjoyed it cause they knew it was limited. Good Game.

Though I assure you I've never heard the term "Pascal's Gambit" before making that post, I've since done a bit of reading on it, and I concur that my views are very similar to Pascal's....and frankly, in my opinion, those "flaws" you speak of are just a bunch of BS.

I believe that there is one God (and do recognize the distinct possiblilty that it could be one group of Gods, despite the fact that I don't personally believe it), who is worshipped by all religions. Though the names of God and traditions surrounding specific theologies differ greatly across the globe, I think that those differences lie solely in man, no with the Divine.

I don't buy into the idea that the Christian God is different being than Allah of Islam, or the spirits of Shintoism - it's all the same. The idea that one must worship the one that does exist as a requirement for salvation is just plain stupid, and I refuse to recognize any validity in such garbage.

I also don't believe that all atheists will go to Hell. If they recognize the existance of God in purgatory after death and repent, than they too will be saved.

So "Pascal's Gamibt", as you call it, can certainly work with any concept of God.

IT
01-22-2006, 06:49 PM
IT: what, we can't even peacefully share our contrasting ideas anymore? Of course hardly anybody's going to change. Most people are stubborn, but they want to hear the views of their opponents, perhaps to solidify their own stance, perhaps to reconsider their own views. If we didn't think, if we didn't communicate, what would separate us from any other organism?

I never said you couldn't share your ideas, I just said that to my mind it is pointless in this case.

But please, feel free to continue the debate, I haven't read a debate as intelligent as this for a while. I know you, sk, would spruce up the debate section.

Jaden0527
01-22-2006, 10:50 PM
I think there's a heaven and a hell.You commit a sin you no where you're going if you don't do anything bad you can go to heaven hopefully,and if you're not accepted into any or don't belive you're dead you become a ghost.

Orthar
01-22-2006, 11:03 PM
I think thats very optomistic, at one point ot another everyone sins, I sin but does that mean I'm a bad person, no. If we take into account all the poeple that sin and if we assume there is a heaven and hell than in one way or another everyone is going to hell. If you look at other religiones they define sin differently, what may be a sin in christianity might be perfectly fine in Buhdiasm and visa versa . That is one of the main flaws i see in the whole heaven hell controversy. We humans are very one dimensional and weak minded. Most of the time we only see things our way. So my question to you now is, can you explain why sin is bad, god supposibly made us in his own vision, he basicly gave us the ablity to sin. Does that make god a sinner? Let me hear what you have to say

Seven
01-28-2006, 09:39 PM
I don't really know what to think of an afterlife. On the one hand, non-existance seems to be the most "logical", on the other hand...I don't know. I have this "feeling" of certainty that there is more than just this XD. But like, that's hardly an argument in a discussion like this.
Anyway, provided there IS an afterlife, I definetely do NOT believe in the concept of hell/heaven. I believe everyone just goes to the same place, regardless of actions in the earthly life. The concept of so-called lessons that need to be learned appeals to me also, it just seems so...I don't know, logical in some freaky way I guess :\. To finish my beliefs-in-a-nutshell of, reincarnation is possible, and happens just when "you" feel like living again.

On a side note, for the peope who believe in hell, I honestly do not understand (not sarcasticly, I just honestly do not understand), how one can believe that the god who is the father of all of us would punish his own children with eternity in hell for not following his set rules. I would not want such a father, that's for sure.

Anyway. Useless post. Because either way no one knowz.

Dog of Hellsing
02-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Hmmm, well, I, being Wiccan, believe that after I die, my soul will go to the Sommerland, where I'll look back on what I've learned in this life and add it to knowledge gained from past lives. When I'm ready, I'll reincarnate into a new life, and keep doing it until I feel I've gained enougn knowledge on life, at which point I'll return to the all and spend eternity like that. ^^

Orthar
02-04-2006, 11:08 PM
So in a way, you belive that though your physical body is gone, your presence will still be there and eventually become new life?

Clutch
02-05-2006, 01:20 AM
Well, in my opinion, you have your own beliefs and you can think what you want. Yes, I do think there's a heaven...

Takei
02-05-2006, 01:31 AM
Wow, what a good question. Too tell the truth I'm not too sure what I believe in, sure I'd like for there to be a perfect Heaven where you could do what you want, be how you want to be, and have what you want to have- but somehow the idea always seems surreal.

And although I'd never heard of the Wiccan Sommerland I've always thought that once you'd died you would go to a place similar or like Heaven where you would infact assemble knowledge from past lives- but upon your arrival there you would be returned to your "original" form, which in my case would mean the person whom you were in your first life and who upon arriving in "Heaven" chose they wanted to live an new life, then died, came back and did the same thing again...

Another thing that may be possible is that once you arrive in "Heaven" you remember absolutely nothing, and are as you were one Earth. Once there you would be offered entry to "Heaven" or would be allowed another life.

And one more idea, maybe "Heaven" and what it contains or what it is depends solely on what you wanted to be.

But these are just Theories so it doesn't really mater...:oops:

Sleepy Sheep
02-05-2006, 01:39 AM
I know for a fact.

We climb the stairway to Heaven, then meet our maker. He shall confront us, and decide if we stay or go. Whereever the direction, up or down, we will remain there forever. Unafraid. In need of no food nor sleep. Toatal relaxation...for the next infinity.

Orthar
02-05-2006, 01:56 AM
Relaxation and Hell really don't go together

Clutch
02-05-2006, 02:13 AM
Relaxation and Hell really don't go together

Sure they do, fire's warm! :happy:

Incongruity
02-05-2006, 02:19 AM
I know for a fact.

We climb the stairway to Heaven, then meet our maker. He shall confront us, and decide if we stay or go. Whereever the direction, up or down, we will remain there forever. Unafraid. In need of no food nor sleep. Toatal relaxation...for the next infinity.
Are you purposely trying to make yourself the subject of derision or do you have some sort of hereditary disorder that makes you incapable of thought beyond the level of a two year old?

If it's the latter, I give you my condolences.

Seawolf
02-05-2006, 03:50 AM
I know for a fact.

We climb the stairway to Heaven, then meet our maker. He shall confront us, and decide if we stay or go. Whereever the direction, up or down, we will remain there forever. Unafraid. In need of no food nor sleep. Toatal relaxation...for the next infinity.

No offense, but there's no way you can exactly know for sure. You're just sticking with what you believe in. There's a fine line between belief and truth.

Besides, other people (including myself) think something else happens when we die. I find it just a bit rude when you say "I know for a fact", because you are basically saying that "this is what I believe, so it must be true". I'm sorry, but I had to say this.

Tahir123
02-05-2006, 04:32 AM
No one knows..I do not believe much in heaven or hell.I mean what proof do people have?The only way to find out is when we die...only then the mystery is revealed.

Orthar
02-05-2006, 04:53 AM
Ahh but there is a loop hole. Say there isn't a heaven or hell, hell say there isn't anything, but you wouldn't know that because you are lifless, now that is the ultimate question that cannot be answered. How can you come to terms with something, if there is nothing, and you were never there

Neo Emolga
02-05-2006, 06:09 AM
And one more idea, maybe "Heaven" and what it contains or what it is depends solely on what you wanted to be.

But these are just Theories so it doesn't really mater...:oops:

...which is interesting for the fact that what may be Heaven for one person may be terrible for another. Anyone has different thoughts and opinions on what they think their perfect world would be like.

But then again, Heaven would be God's kingdom. Perhaps it's only really adjusted for the way He wants it.

And don't mind me saying this, but I've heard of way too many "out of body" experiences to think that souls and an afterlife don't exist. Heck, I've even talked to people that have gone through such a thing where you actually look down at yourself. And then there are others who had to have their heart stopped for a short moment, and during that time, they went through the same thing, a point where the soul leaves the body for a short time, but then is forced to come back because the body comes back to life.

And don't mind me saying this, but they can't all be liars...

Finglonger
02-05-2006, 06:33 AM
heh well, Im quite fond of the theory that this earth is a test for our souls, in which we come here to learn something, and then move onto a higher plane of existence. If you don't learn what you need to learn you come back and try it again.

But even though I do like the idea, theres no way I could ever be certain.

Heaven and hell or an afterlife may well just be a state of mind, in which we create our own existence...hell who is to say that this life isn't just a manifestation of our own collective conciousness..?

Orthar
02-05-2006, 01:32 PM
hell who is to say that this life isn't just a manifestation of our own collective conciousness..?
It's the matrix! Anyway I agree with you. Thats exactly what I think. I'm just not sure about heaven/hell and I question it. Some people belive that there is because of their "faith", but how do we know if even jesus or satan existed. Are there any clues in this mortal world other that books? Hell, how do we even know that there is a higher power than us, an imortal power out there?

sonickid01
02-05-2006, 01:45 PM
Hold up. What does every religion which believes in god (everything but athiesm, far as I know) have in common? That all humans should be good to one another. And unless I'm mistaken, that's supposed to bring us to hell or heave, depending on which direction the soul went, bad or good. Hindus believe that God keeps chunkin' your soul back down here 'til it's pure. Christians, however, believe that you get one life and then you go up or down depending on the purity of your mind and soul, unless I'm mistaken. Muslims, though, do not believe in heaven. They call their heaven a "paradise" if you were a nice person. So all these different beliefs hold a common point: You're nice, you're happy; You're bad, you're not happy. But, how have we come to all these different religions? There is a God shared between us, so maybe if we sort of mix up every religion into one, that'll give us what we're really looking for, and we'll know what ACTUALLY happens when we die.

Incongruity
02-05-2006, 01:54 PM
...which is interesting for the fact that what may be Heaven for one person may be terrible for another. Anyone has different thoughts and opinions on what they think their perfect world would be like.

But then again, Heaven would be God's kingdom. Perhaps it's only really adjusted for the way He wants it.

And don't mind me saying this, but I've heard of way too many "out of body" experiences to think that souls and an afterlife don't exist. Heck, I've even talked to people that have gone through such a thing where you actually look down at yourself. And then there are others who had to have their heart stopped for a short moment, and during that time, they went through the same thing, a point where the soul leaves the body for a short time, but then is forced to come back because the body comes back to life.

And don't mind me saying this, but they can't all be liars...
Lol, ur kidding right?

It's social conditioning dude. In all of those "out of body" experiences, the brain is still working.


In a western society, Judeo-Christian mythology affects the psyche of a person. In the arab world, it's Islam. In India, they go see Vishnu or see themselves reincarnated. It's not actual proof, it's mental reflection of what the outside is telling you.


And where exactly is the soul, again? What exactly is it? If you're saying it "leaves" the body, you've been brainwashed by "21 Grams." I've already commented on this movie.

So the only other explanation would be that the soul would go somewhere, but the entire body... all of its energy and matter would stay on "this" world. So then matter or energy would have to be created out of nowhere.

If you're going to say the usual "God is mysterious and God is all-powerful so hge can violate the natural laws" explanation, that relies purely on circumstancial evidence. Just because it can be based on the current world view doesn't mean it is. After all, the theory that leprechauns are all-powerful beings who control the fabrics of life so that when we die we turn into a leprechaun is just as credible then, because the omnipotence and omniscience of the leprechauns can explain the entirety of life. If anything seems contradictory or mysterious, you're simply unable to comprehend their higher level of thought. It's not that the theory of leprechauns is false.

After all, so many people claim to have seen leprechauns. There are so many tales and stories. They can't all be liars.






Of course, that was just me playing the devil's advocate. Occam's Razor can remove both a deity and any omnipotent leprechauns.

sonickid01
02-05-2006, 02:03 PM
Yes, that's true. But, seriously! How can we come up with a million different religions if we all even share the same species! I just think that it's wierd. We all originated from the Persia area, right? So, then what happened? We took a piece of what we had and made up stuff to fill in the gaps. That means that if we fused the different religions together, we might get the religion that God intended for us to have. Or.. we might get something that is way off. That's just my opinion and idea.

IT
02-05-2006, 02:48 PM
Yes, that's true. But, seriously! How can we come up with a million different religions if we all even share the same species! I just think that it's wierd. We all originated from the Persia area, right? So, then what happened? We took a piece of what we had and made up stuff to fill in the gaps. That means that if we fused the different religions together, we might get the religion that God intended for us to have. Or.. we might get something that is way off. That's just my opinion and idea.

Actually, I think the first human-apes were in Africa.

Also, how would you fuse the religions to have only one God, as I understand from what you're saying, while the muslims would like to have Allah, hindus with their Vishnus and Kalis, so which would be the " real God"? You're only looking this in the Christian perspective.

sonickid01
02-05-2006, 03:03 PM
I don't know how we could combine them. I never said I knew how. And I'm not even Christian. I'm Hindu, if you must know. But I look at things with a balance. I have no idea why, but everything I see has some opposite double or something. Fire and Water. Balance. Pokemon and Digimon, or something else. Balance. I just thought that if we can balance all the religions on some giant imaginary scale, we might achieve what God intended for us to achieve. I dunno.

Neo Emolga
02-05-2006, 03:42 PM
Lol, ur kidding right?

It's social conditioning dude. In all of those "out of body" experiences, the brain is still working.

If the heart had to be stopped, technically it wouldnít be, since blood would stop flowing to the brain and it would just shut down.

In a western society, Judeo-Christian mythology affects the psyche of a person. In the arab world, it's Islam. In India, they go see Vishnu or see themselves reincarnated. It's not actual proof, it's mental reflection of what the outside is telling you.

Remember these?

Red Sea Crossing (http://www.anchorstone.com/content/view/156/53/)

Ark of the Covenant (http://www.anchorstone.com/content/view/158/55/)

Anyway, I still think this is valid proof, but of course something physical would be superior to a website, but Iím limited in how much I can show. As for the mental reflection of what the outside is telling you, than can be applied with anything. Heck, letís not forget that was the main, reoccurring theme in The Matrix.

And still, the only way to truly believe it is through self-revelation. To those who believe this life is a test, maybe proof is scarce and seldom simply because of it. Imagine a school exam with all the answers in front of you. I doubt keeping the faith was meant to be exceptionally easy.

And where exactly is the soul, again? What exactly is it? If you're saying it "leaves" the body, you've been brainwashed by "21 Grams." I've already commented on this movie.

Iíve never heard or seen the movie. As for where the soul is, Iíd gladly bring Finglongerís example, and say that perhaps we werenít meant to see it in this life. Perhaps it really is there in another dimension, but it follows us in this world as well. There is no real way to explain it, and this, like many other things in life, cannot be explained on the basis of proof.

So the only other explanation would be that the soul would go somewhere, but the entire body... all of its energy and matter would stay on "this" world. So then matter or energy would have to be created out of nowhere.

It may not even be matter, as we so know it, at all. After all, there is a presence of anti-matter which does have proof. But how can something be anti-matter and not be matter itself? Donít mind me saying this, but I think itís wrong for humans to assume we know everything there is to this world and the world around us. Thatís just blind hubris.

If you're going to say the usual "God is mysterious and God is all-powerful so hge can violate the natural laws" explanation, that relies purely on circumstancial evidence. Just because it can be based on the current world view doesn't mean it is. After all, the theory that leprechauns are all-powerful beings who control the fabrics of life so that when we die we turn into a leprechaun is just as credible then, because the omnipotence and omniscience of the leprechauns can explain the entirety of life. If anything seems contradictory or mysterious, you're simply unable to comprehend their higher level of thought. It's not that the theory of leprechauns is false.

Ha ha, I love these leprechaun examplesÖ

You could say history is a joke too. You could say World War II or the French and Indian wars never took place. But you believe them off of textbooks youíve read, and maybe exhibits youíve seen in a museum, even though you werenít alive at the time of those events taking place. The Bible is like those same textbooks, accounts of other people that were assembled off of events that took place and really happened. And while proof is seldom, why discredit it if its just as physical and valid as a textbook on World War II? But your disbelief in God really comes from doubt about the existence of divine powers, not from lack of physical proof. Records, texts, and artifacts are physical proof, but anything in the form of power or force has no kind of ďtraceĒ that is left behind so that we can link it to where exactly it came from.

After all, so many people claim to have seen leprechauns. There are so many tales and stories. They can't all be liars.

Of course, that was just me playing the devil's advocate. Occam's Razor can remove both a deity and any omnipotent leprechauns.

The principle of Occamís Razor states that no assumptions should be made than what is necessary. And sure, you could go against everything that has to do with ďmagical thinking.Ē But according to Occamís Razor, you should only follow down a straight path of only what you see and is explainable, hence its agnostic nature. Why give consideration to an outside force or influence?

But again, if we never assume, then there is no path to travel down on. If we never stop to consider what is around us, if something is beyond our eyesight, or if there is no basis for a fundamental thought process, then exactly where does that path go?

Sorry, but if everyone followed Occamís Razor, we wouldnít have the innovation, ideas, or concepts that we do today. We wouldnít have people who think outside the box and develop something outside of the normal boundaries.

Incongruity
02-05-2006, 04:02 PM
If the heart had to be stopped, technically it wouldn’t be, since blood would stop flowing to the brain and it would just shut down.

Technically you're wrong, because there would still be enough oxygen & nutrients for the brain to survive for a while =/

Remember these?

Red Sea Crossing (http://www.anchorstone.com/content/view/156/53/)

Ark of the Covenant (http://www.anchorstone.com/content/view/158/55/)

Anyway, I still think this is valid proof, but of course something physical would be superior to a website, but I’m limited in how much I can show. As for the mental reflection of what the outside is telling you, than can be applied with anything. Heck, let’s not forget that was the main, reoccurring theme in The Matrix.

Archaeology. It proves nothing other than the fact that this is what they believed years ago. If someone found a Harry Potter book years from now, seeing as how it's printed everywhere, that does not validate the existence of wizards and Hogwarts.

And still, the only way to truly believe it is through self-revelation. To those who believe this life is a test, maybe proof is scarce and seldom simply because of it. Imagine a school exam with all the answers in front of you. I doubt keeping the faith was meant to be exceptionally easy.

So because it's difficult, it's true? Because it seems to deny all we can sense and logically obtain from reason, it's true?

I’ve never heard or seen the movie. As for where the soul is, I’d gladly bring Finglonger’s example, and say that perhaps we weren’t meant to see it in this life. Perhaps it really is there in another dimension, but it follows us in this world as well. There is no real way to explain it, and this, like many other things in life, cannot be explained on the basis of proof.

I can't believe we're using lack of explanation and mysticism to explain something.

It may not even be matter, as we so know it, at all. After all, there is a presence of anti-matter which does have proof. But how can something be anti-matter and not be matter itself? Don’t mind me saying this, but I think it’s wrong for humans to assume we know everything there is to this world and the world around us. That’s just blind hubris.

yea, let's assume we know nothing then. Let's deny what we know.

Ha ha, I love these leprechaun examples…

Why laugh at the leprechaun examples? By that logic you laugh at religion and you're a bigot =/

You could say history is a joke too. You could say World War II or the French and Indian wars never took place. But you believe them off of textbooks you’ve read, and maybe exhibits you’ve seen in a museum, even though you weren’t alive at the time of those events taking place. The Bible is like those same textbooks, accounts of other people that were assembled off of events that took place and really happened. And while proof is seldom, why discredit it if its just as physical and valid as a textbook on World War II? But your disbelief in God really comes from doubt about the existence of divine powers, not from lack of physical proof. Records, texts, and artifacts are physical proof, but anything in the form of power or force has no kind of “trace” that is left behind so that we can link it to where exactly it came from.

You can't possibly compare historical events and the existence of a deity. Archaeology concerning wars shows that these wars happened. Archaeology concerning religion shows what the dominating religion was at the time.

The principle of Occam’s Razor states that no assumptions should be made than what is necessary. And sure, you could go against everything that has to do with “magical thinking.” But according to Occam’s Razor, you should only follow down a straight path of only what you see and is explainable, hence its agnostic nature. Why give consideration to an outside force or influence?

Only what you see and is explainable? No, not really. Gj using straw man tactics against Occam's Razor, tho. Almost got away with it. You undoubtedly fooled most of the semi-idiots roaming here.

The thing is, deities can be eliminated since they contribute no better an explanation, but rather impose the necessity of prerequisites that call for other explanations as opposed to true answers. If someone believes in heaven, you have to believe a God exists, that the God is merciful, that the God would chose you, that the God Christianity fabricates is real, etc. etc. The only real proof (other than archaeology which shows what the majority was back then) is that a God could theoretically exist since there's no proof against it. If we validated every theory that could exist, we would have the leprechauns.

But again, if we never assume, then there is no path to travel down on. If we never stop to consider what is around us, if something is beyond our eyesight, or if there is no basis for a fundamental thought process, then exactly where does that path go?

Of course we assume, we just don't make groundless assumptions that contribute nothing. We don't make assumptions that are merely "possible."

Sorry, but if everyone followed Occam’s Razor, we wouldn’t have the innovation, ideas, or concepts that we do today. We wouldn’t have people who think outside the box and develop something outside of the normal boundaries.

Ha, gj almost getting away with the straw man again. Nah, Occam's Razor doesn't apply to the "innovation, ideas, or concepts" you think of. You're talking about technology. Occam's Razor applies to truth. It makes sense not to believe in something if it's purely "possible" because yes, anything is possible. Didn't you see how ridiculous the leprechaun theory was? But if you opened your mind for a second, you would realize that it's very possible, it's just ridiculous to believe in it without proof that would suggest it's probability. It requires the same leap of faith as Christianity. But that leap has no backing, it relies on childish assumptions, and it creates more questions than answers.


Your only real argument is, "Hey, it seems impossible. Then it must be true"

Surly Professor
02-05-2006, 05:46 PM
My soul was made of antimatter.
It annihilated my appendix.

Dog of Hellsing
02-05-2006, 09:14 PM
The Boogeyman...: Something like that, yes. I believe that once the soul has amassed what it believes to be enough information and knowledge on life, it returns to the All to life the rest of its existence.

Here's something I find interesting. Imagine for a moment that there's a finite number of souls in existence. And let's assume that when you die you go either to Heaven or Hell. After a certain amount of time, say one thousand years, all these souls have had their one go at life. After that thousand years, humankind would cease to exist, since all the souls had lived once and there's no life-on-earth-after-death going on. But humankind is still here after how long, and so are thousands upon thousands of other species. I don't believe it's because some God or Goddess is up there popping out souls left and right. I believe that souls are being reincarnated after they spend a certain amount of time in limbo, the Sommerland, whatever you want to call it. Wiccans believe that the souls animals possess are "young souls," meaning souls that haven't been around as long as others. It may sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but read: I never said that new souls weren't created in the past, just that I don't think new souls are constantly being made for every new life now. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and new souls ARE being made for each new life.

Guess we'll never know for sure until we go through the whole shee-bang ourselves, ne?

Incongruity
02-05-2006, 10:32 PM
Guess we'll never know for sure until we go through the whole shee-bang ourselves, ne?
Yea.. The only way to find out the truth is to die.



Being the nice person I am, I'll let NP go first.

Lord Mullet
03-04-2006, 03:47 AM
Its comforting to think we will go somewhere afterwards, instead of rotting in the ground.
I don't find the idea particularly comforting. The ten thousand years before my birth didn't bother me, and neither will the ten thousand after my death.

NP:Such historical events as World War II were observed by multiple people, and extensively documented by different sources. Much of the documentation has been critically reviewed, and so on and so forth. This meets my standards for accepting something as truth, and so, I accept these records as accurate, although I would not stake my life on their inerrancy.

Can you find me a contemporary extrabiblical record of the Massacre of the Innocents. And yet, probably at least a billion people accept it as fact, a billion people who also believe in an afterlife. Does this tell you something about their level of credulity?

Simply put, there is no reason for me to believe in an afterlife, to believe that my consciousness magically continues to exist once all brain function has ceased. It is equivalent to believing that flying invisible pink unicorns prance around the Thames river at the vernal equinox, invisible pink flowers growing out of their every hoofprint.

To address the OOBEs: I wouldn't say they are all liars, I would say they are all deluded. Ever so slightly (http://skepdic.com/obe.html).

After reading the whole thread, though, me sentiments can be summed up pretty accurately as:
ssk1911, marry me

=P

mjay
03-12-2006, 02:50 AM
As That Im a young christian I believe if your saved and you read The B.I.B.L.E, and you accept god as your lord and savor, then yea you will got to heaven. But if you don't believe then well im sorry for you.

Seawolf
03-12-2006, 02:55 AM
As That Im a young christian I believe if your saved and you read The B.I.B.L.E, and you accept god as your lord and savor, then yea you will got to heaven. But if you don't believe then well im sorry for you.

But you have no proof of that. :tongue:

mjay
03-12-2006, 03:03 AM
Yes I do the Bible. Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins.

Katera
03-12-2006, 03:03 AM
As That Im a young christian I believe if your saved and you read The B.I.B.L.E, and you accept god as your lord and savor, then yea you will got to heaven. But if you don't believe then well im sorry for you.
Lol, you worship god.

Seriously, we're practically already in hell. Just jump out your window and try come back to life, Mjay. Then tell us if god takes you to heaven for at least a second.
Blah, maybe we go somewhere else, but it sure isn't somewhere you need god to take you.

One reason I believe we might go somewhere else, is cause of something that happend to one of my mothers friends. Although, somehow that little girl drew her death..

mjay
03-12-2006, 03:08 AM
You don't know that anyway If god dosn't take us there will be no way to not got to hell. anyway why would he make the bible for no reason, and why does so many people believe if hes a fake? my point made.

Katera
03-12-2006, 03:19 AM
You don't know that anyway If god dosn't take us there will be no way to not got to hell. anyway why would he make the bible for no reason, and why does so many people believe if hes a fake? my point made.
Haha.. Kids today.
We live in hell, dude... I can't think of any place that could be worse then the world we live in.

And if he made the bible, why does it say "Fox Productions" on it? :p J/P.

mjay
03-12-2006, 03:23 AM
Cause they made it clearer cause it was written in hebrew.

Seawolf
03-12-2006, 03:32 AM
You don't know that anyway If god dosn't take us there will be no way to not got to hell. anyway why would he make the bible for no reason, and why does so many people believe if hes a fake? my point made.

"You don't know that anyway"? Neither do you. You're sticking to your beliefs, not fact. Have you forgotten that there are hundreds of other religions in this world that do not center around your Christian 'god'?

For all we know, the bible could've been written by some lonely freak who had nothing better to do. You have no proof, so don't try and impose your religion on other people.

By the way, "many people believe in it" just as millions of others believe in their own faiths. Don't be so ignorant.

mjay
03-12-2006, 03:35 AM
Ok Im sorry I believe my beliefs and everyone believe theirs sorry if I caused anything to harm anyone.

Vampire
03-24-2006, 11:10 PM
Ok Im sorry I believe my beliefs and everyone believe theirs sorry if I caused anything to harm anyone.
I believe if your a do goeder, you get sent to heaven, but if you go to extreme and murder/kill including suicide (i think you murder yourself) you go to hell, were you are under the devil influence to destroy all good things including the cutest dogs and cat/kittens and anythink the devil dislikes.
In heaven you get to do as you please, i believe when your a baby like the age of under 9 months and you die unborn, you are put in a female angels uterix until its time for your birth and you grow but never get old, yes, you age but dont look it, my views are very strong on this subject!!!

mjay
03-25-2006, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the agreement, and think about you can do what ever you please in heaven. I hope god can make a pokemon World and I can stay there the rest of my eternity life, but still worship him.

Dog of Hellsing
03-25-2006, 09:22 PM
In heaven you get to do as you please, i believe when your a baby like the age of under 9 months and you die unborn, you are put in a female angels uterix until its time for your birth and you grow but never get old, yes, you age but dont look it, my views are very strong on this subject!!!

Erm, what's a uterix? I think you mean "uterus?"

Anyways, I remain true to my beliefs of reincarnation and such. For us Wiccans, instead of going to Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, we go to the Sommerland when we die, where we can rest and prepare for our next life. Hmmm, I wonder if there'd be Pokemon there...? Ah well, I can wish XD.

Vampire
03-26-2006, 08:57 AM
Thanks for the agreement, and think about you can do what ever you please in heaven. I hope god can make a pokemon World and I can stay there the rest of my eternity life, but still worship him.
I dont believe in GOD myself, but i think heaven and hell co-exist within are own world.

mjay
03-26-2006, 01:40 PM
Im still and always gone to believe in God and his son Jesus. Christianity is practiced by 1,900,000,000 people and the news finded Noah's ark and it was the same size as it said in the bible and about the same place the bible said were he was.

Sudo
03-26-2006, 01:41 PM
Why are we still pondering on this question?

Its not like we're going to reach a worthwhile conclusion...

mjay
03-26-2006, 01:57 PM
Maybe, maybe not im still protesting my religon.

Sudo
03-26-2006, 02:09 PM
Maybe, maybe not im still protesting my religon.
Why dont you keep it as a personal thing, instead of "protesting" it?

If every religion did that, it might be better.

mjay
03-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Ok sure you won't here anything from me unless somebody talks bad about it.

Alonso
03-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Everytime people talk about religious beliefs we get people pissed off. And what does that lead to...terrorism. Seriously, the terrorist attacks that happen, are about some guy and the god he loves and that he is willing to die for him. So talking about your religious beliefs doesn't solve anything.

Why are we still pondering on this question?
Its not like we're going to reach a worthwhile conclusion...
We will when we die.
Im still and always gone to believe in God and his son Jesus. Christianity is practiced by 1,900,000,000 people and the news finded Noah's ark and it was the same size as it said in the bible and about the same place the bible said were he was.
I think you might have to re-word that or check your grammar, because you made no sense. I think what you are trying to say is that they found Noah's Ark? Well I haven't seen the news about it on TV yet.
Thanks for the agreement, and think about you can do what ever you please in heaven. I hope god can make a pokemon World and I can stay there the rest of my eternity life, but still worship him.
You're obsessed.

mjay
03-26-2006, 02:18 PM
Im obsessed about what?

Dog of Hellsing
03-27-2006, 10:47 PM
I believe he means Pokemon.

Anyways, this isn't a topic about "protesting" religion. It's a thread about what happens to our "souls" when we die. Personally, I'm sticking with what I believe, not matter what anyone says. Unless they can prove me wrong, which I doubt.

And I have yet to hear news about Noah's Ark being found as well. then again, I don't really watch the news all that often.

The End
03-27-2006, 10:51 PM
if you really want to know what happens when you die, i can tell you. They bury you or burn you. End of story. You rot.

Dog of Hellsing
03-27-2006, 10:58 PM
if you really want to know what happens when you die, i can tell you. They bury you or burn you. End of story. You rot.

Technically if they creamate (burn) you, you don't rot XD. But that's what happens to your body, not your soul lol. Which is what I think this thread is getting at, or am I wrong? Wouldn't be shocked if I was >>...

Alonso
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
Im obsessed about what?
You want a pokemon world when you die...that is what you call paradise? Your obsessed.