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View Full Version : Debate - Reincarnation


Espeon Rinage
06-25-2006, 04:03 PM
What are your thoughts on re-inacarnation? Debate with other members about this, Flamming will not be tolerated.

I am netural, havent decided really.

Matt
06-25-2006, 04:26 PM
In a non-believers opinon, this is total bull. I don't believe in any supernatural forces, such as God, don't believe there is a heaven or hell, and obviously don't believe in reincarnation because it is scientifically unreasonable. When you die, that's it. Your mind seases to function, and you don't exist beyond your physical remains. Once your heart stops beating, you are dead. Your body can't supply oxygen to the brain, therefore being unable to perform any major body functions, and the body itself ceases to function. In a natural sense, the dead body tissue would break down, and decomposers would eventually deteriorate every cell except for the bone cells. There is no way that when one person dies and another is born, there could be any connection between the two. Minds and memories cannot jump from one body to another, it is not possible.

Espeon Rinage
06-25-2006, 04:46 PM
mmm..yes. The common argument of science. I agree that it seems impossible to live again, its just pure logic. Science has proved that once your dead, your dead.Although there are some things that still can't be explnned, science have had no proof over ghosts, but they just say that they dont exist. I'd still consider myself a non-believer in this subject.

Matt
06-25-2006, 04:50 PM
mmm..yes. The common argument of science. I agree that it seems impossible to live again, its just pure logic. Science has proved that once your dead, your dead.Although there are some things that still can't be explnned, science have had no proof over ghosts, but they just say that they dont exist. I'd still consider myself a non-believer in this subject.
Ghosts are a myth. Any siting or encounter can be disproven with simple logic.

Alonso
06-26-2006, 10:11 PM
Ghosts are a myth. Any siting or encounter can be disproven with simple logic.
OMG not the old logic thing again. I hope your siting and encounters don't apply to aliens. Aliens or at LEAST there has to be life out there in space. We are microscopic in this universe. You also stated that reincarnation is scientifically unreasonable. How so? What you said about when you die that your senses and you just cease to exists. It's freaky to think you will be nothing and then just........nothing. It's kind of like the the beginning of time. How was it just........there? How??????? I hate those things. But I am undecided on the topic. Reincarnation is strange. What if the process required for your past memory to be erased. Then we would never know. I wouldn't know if I was some peasant in the Middle Ages, or Adolf Hitler in the 1940s. ...:sad:

Matt
06-26-2006, 10:24 PM
It may be freaky, but it's fact. Reincarnation is nothing more than folklore and false religious teachings.

As for aliens, I do believe there is the possibility of life on other planets. Hell! Explorers and robots have even found traces of bacteria on Mars! I don't, however, believe that any living creature in space is advanced enough to create flying objects as others expect. The idea of flying saucers had actually started here on Earth, and now whenever anybody sees a strange light in the sky, or a r/c airplane or something, it is automatically a flying saucer.

Incongruity
06-26-2006, 10:47 PM
Reincarnation is actually more likely than an afterlife. I'll explain why when I have time. But at least we're not doing "what happens after you die," because I already ripped on everyone in that thread.

Matt
06-26-2006, 11:27 PM
Both seem illogical to me.

Incongruity
06-26-2006, 11:40 PM
Both seem illogical to me.
I'm not saying that either of them adhere strictly to logic or reason. In fact, the burden of proof for either is on the shoulders of the believers, and even though myths have existed for ages, that burden has existed for just as long; it doesn't look like it'll be relieved any time soon.

But if we were to assume that one HAS to be possible, the idea of reincarnation would stick more to modern science. Why? You're basically saying a "spirit" moves. First, let's share why this is more logical than an afterlife. This is because reincarnation does NOT violate the law of conservation of mass and energy (completed by Einstein, in what we know as e = mc^2). On the other hand, if there IS an afterlife, then SOMETHING (whether memories, thoughts and personalities are energy or mass) HAS to escape the existing world. BUT, a body does not lose mass when an organism dies. And, if it were to lose energy, the world would constantly be losing energy, which would be moving to a place which has not even been proved to exist. Thus, it goes to an outer world, not part of this universe. But that means energy is essentially being destroyed. That alone violates one of the fundamental laws of science. Even if we do not consider that it violates the law, and merely assume that it CAN happen, it would essentially mean that the universe should have collapsed by now, because life has existed for millions if not billions of years. If spirits (has to be energy, since mass is not lost) would have to have been escaping for that amount of time. If the universe continued to lose and lose energy, it would eventually collapse. If we assume that our energy is conserved but a "copy" is made in that nonexistent area outside of the confines of space-time, then energy is just being made, which violates the law again. If we assume that energy can even be made out of nothing, the two universes (real and superphysical) would eventually collide, because SO much energy would be created in that superphysical universe. So many spirits would constantly be "copied" there, that it would have too much energy, too much heat, and it would eventually reach this universe and destroy it. Afterlife is not possible, and even if it were, we shouldn't exist anymore.

(for this same reason, ghosts cannot exist. Except, it's even more obvious, because if ghosts were visible but not "physical," they would have to be a constant source of energy, as they're eminating as opposed to reflecting light. Where is that energy coming from? Nowhere. It's just being created out of nothingness)

Now let's compare that to reincarnation. In that case, spirits, which HAVE to be some form of energy, would merely be moving from body to body. Of course, we have no idea how these spirits even move from a body to another body, but if we assume that most energy waves can move at the speed of light, I guess this is indeed possible, but highly unlikely.

Espeon Rinage
06-29-2006, 03:57 PM
The argument of logic is so over rated. Logic doesnt meen everything.

Reincarnation could be possible. I meen there could be ghosts, there are alot of storys that go towards proof, when they really have acctualy proof. Aliens, I agree, there could be life forms on other planets. Evadence shows that there were once lakes there. Although I dont think theyd look like little green men. Neither do I think they would be advanced enough for Flying saurcers.

Seven
06-29-2006, 04:58 PM
The argument of logic is so over rated. Logic doesnt meen everything.


So...we should all just completely disregard logic because YOU think it's overrated?


Reincarnation could be possible. I meen there could be ghosts, there are alot of storys that go towards proof, when they really have acctualy proof.

Show us. And if there was "actual proof" don't you think that would be common accepted knowledge?


Aliens, I agree, there could be life forms on other planets. Evadence shows that there were once lakes there. Although I dont think theyd look like little green men. Neither do I think they would be advanced enough for Flying saurcers.
Might wanna start an alien thread, my fellow soul. Cus this has absolutely nothing to do with reincarnation.

Kabuki
06-29-2006, 05:00 PM
I love the idea of recarination. reincarnation is commonly accepted, and has been for thousands more years then Christ was, just over in asia.

Alonso
06-29-2006, 07:30 PM
Why are we making a big deal over something that we will find out about when we die.

Reincarnation is actually more likely than an afterlife. I'll explain why when I have time. But at least we're not doing "what happens after you die," because I already ripped on everyone in that thread.
That seems biased.

Espeon Rinage
06-29-2006, 07:35 PM
Why are we making a big deal over something that we will find out about when we die.

Beacause it's intresting to see peoples thoughts.

Echo
06-29-2006, 07:42 PM
Reincarnation could be possible.

I find it funny that you're saying this, because you put your name in the first post as a one who is against reincarnation.

EDIT: Even funnier, Espeon Rinage, now you edited the first post saying that you're neutral over the matter after all. Do you even have an opinion over the matter at all or are you just switching sides?

I believe in many things and I believe in some sort of reincarnation, because we, if buried, will get eaten by millions of different micro-organisms who will, in time, develop into something bigger. That's just the cycle of nature though and has nothing to do with beliefs or religions.

Why are we making a big deal over something that we will find out about when we die.

Because human nature was made to be curious.

Dakota
07-01-2006, 12:53 AM
I love the idea of recarination. reincarnation is commonly accepted, and has been for thousands more years then Christ was, just over in asia.

I would love to see where you got that amazing piece of information.

Seven
07-01-2006, 02:29 PM
I would love to see where you got that amazing piece of information.

Actually, it's common knowledge. You might want to read up on non-western religions before you go throwing sarcasm around.

Dakota
07-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Actually, it's common knowledge. You might want to read up on non-western religions before you go throwing sarcasm around.

Still no source? Common knowledge should be easy enough to find a source to. And it wasn't sarcasm. I really would love to know where you got that amazing piece of information.

Incongruity
07-01-2006, 05:32 PM
While I disagree with Dakota's regressive views and his overall subtle arrogance, I too am curious as to why you think that. I sincerely hope you're not referring to Hinduism, because the concept of Samsara wasn't in the Vedas; if I recall correctly, they were first mentioned in the Upanishads, which were hundreds, not thousands of years BCE. And I hope you're not referring to animism or the religion of any other ancient civilization, because those tend to be heaven/hell mythos based, with high emphasis on fear of wandering spirits.

Of course, in my opinion, age of a religion shouldn't matter at all, because both ideas seem to be obsolete and unnecessary opiates.

Dakota
07-02-2006, 05:32 PM
While I disagree with Dakota's regressive views and his overall subtle arrogance, I too am curious as to why you think that. I sincerely hope you're not referring to Hinduism, because the concept of Samsara wasn't in the Vedas; if I recall correctly, they were first mentioned in the Upanishads, which were hundreds, not thousands of years BCE. And I hope you're not referring to animism or the religion of any other ancient civilization, because those tend to be heaven/hell mythos based, with high emphasis on fear of wandering spirits.

Of course, in my opinion, age of a religion shouldn't matter at all, because both ideas seem to be obsolete and unnecessary opiates.

I'm really not trying to sound arrogant, not intentionally anyway. I just wanted to point the fact that people were believing in Jesus (God) thousands of years before he was even born.

Seven
07-02-2006, 10:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

Really, read this, follow the links :\ (this is the easiest source, but google up reincarnation and you'll find PLENTY more)

And uh, saying people were believing in Jesus thousands of years before he was born is such an arrogant statement it's hilarious. How do you know people were "believing in Jesus/God". I can imagine something - they believed in some sort of prophet or saviour, and YOUR interpretation of that, is that they mean Jesus.
Peoples have believed in (a) higher being(s) since...FOREVER, but to interpret older religions as being Christianity in an earlier form is just...repulsive.

Forgive me if I'm interpreting your statement wrongly, I can hardly imagine you actually meant to say what I think you did x_x.

bear attack111
07-24-2006, 05:35 PM
For all logical believers:

If we dont reincarnate, or we don't go to a "Heaven", or "Hell", then where do we go when we die? For me it's hard to believe that when we die we just don't exist anymore, and we are nothing.

I think something would have to happen to us. It's kind of hard to imagine not being anything at all in the end.

Alonso
07-25-2006, 02:06 AM
For all logical believers:

If we dont reincarnate, or we don't go to a "Heaven", or "Hell", then where do we go when we die? For me it's hard to believe that when we die we just don't exist anymore, and we are nothing.

I think something would have to happen to us. It's kind of hard to imagine not being anything at all in the end.

Did you "feel" anything before we were born? I guess that state of being can exist after you die. You have to hit the logical thinkers with something harder. So your argument is useless.

Really, read this, follow the links :\ (this is the easiest source, but google up reincarnation and you'll find PLENTY more)

And uh, saying people were believing in Jesus thousands of years before he was born is such an arrogant statement it's hilarious. How do you know people were "believing in Jesus/God". I can imagine something - they believed in some sort of prophet or saviour, and YOUR interpretation of that, is that they mean Jesus.
Peoples have believed in (a) higher being(s) since...FOREVER, but to interpret older religions as being Christianity in an earlier form is just...repulsive.

Forgive me if I'm interpreting your statement wrongly, I can hardly imagine you actually meant to say what I think you did x_x.

Why is it that everyone on this forum who isn't Christian always attacks Christianity. There are hundreds of other religions out there and Christianity is the only one that seems to be the one full of bull.

Matt
07-25-2006, 02:31 AM
I agree totally on the firs part, but read sev's post again, he is not in the LEAST attacking Christianity.

And the reason I usually attack Christianity is because my beliefs are that the religion's idea is above and beyond the stupidity and illogicality of any other, but I don't want to go there.

Alonso
07-25-2006, 02:33 AM
I agree totally on the firs part, but read sev's post again, he is not in the LEAST attacking Christianity.

And the reason I usually attack Christianity is because my beliefs are that the religion's idea is above and beyond the stupidity and illogicality of any other, but I don't want to go there.

Darn it, it's because he used big words that make him look smart and it just makes me lazy and then those big words seem to be attacking Christianity. Grr...:susp:

To my surprise, some guy in the Suicide thread said God and used him as if he exists to all of us and nobody ranted him.

Echo
07-26-2006, 10:52 AM
To my surprise, some guy in the Suicide thread said God and used him as if he exists to all of us and nobody ranted him.

That must've been me since I was the only person to use the word 'God' in the whole thread...

Magikarp009, you would never commit a suicide? It's good to think optimistically, but what if you'd suddenly notice that there is no one left to love you (meaning that you've lost family/friends/pets), except God. God would've been kind enough to let you live on the streets, but living on the streets is just plain miserable. Would you commit a suicide to "move on" and pass on to Heaven or would you stay on Earth and live your life of misery? There's always a pessimistic side in everything.

Maybe I should've pointed out that this 'works' only for the ones who believe in God, or a god. But yes, I used him as if he existed to all of us, because it was the most fitting way to use him in the above example. Why should people rant me because of a correct example, which is from a Christian point of view?

Also, Shadow Charizard, you're contradicting yourself a little by first complaining about people attacking Christianity and then complaining about how nobody ranted me when I used the word 'God' like he existed to all of us.

Defense.2, even though you 'didn't want to go there', could you at least explain why you would even consider attacking Christianity? You know, attacking a person's beliefs because yours are different can be easily interpreted as racism.

Wow, I just realized that this post has nothing to do with reincarnation...

Matt
07-26-2006, 12:02 PM
That must've been me since I was the only person to use the word 'God' in the whole thread...



Maybe I should've pointed out that this 'works' only for the ones who believe in God, or a god. But yes, I used him as if he existed to all of us, because it was the most fitting way to use him in the above example. Why should people rant me because of a correct example, which is from a Christian point of view?

Also, Shadow Charizard, you're contradicting yourself a little by first complaining about people attacking Christianity and then complaining about how nobody ranted me when I used the word 'God' like he existed to all of us.

Defense.2, even though you 'didn't want to go there', could you at least explain why you would even consider attacking Christianity? You know, attacking a person's beliefs because yours are different can be easily interpreted as racism.

Wow, I just realized that this post has nothing to do with reincarnation...
Sure I'll state it, but I don't have the time now. In no way would it ever be racism, more-so my expression of the fact that the beliefs are bogus.

Echo
07-26-2006, 12:11 PM
Sure I'll state it, but I don't have the time now. In no way would it ever be racism, more-so my expression of the fact that the beliefs are bogus.

Okay, I'm fine with just knowing that you're not taking a racist route in proving someone's beliefs false.

Snow Fairy Sugar
07-26-2006, 12:14 PM
correct me if I am mistaken,but people in the east China,Japan,India and south asia believe in this stuff.As for god,check in google,and find out how many results you get.

Ham and Cheese
07-26-2006, 12:33 PM
Don't rely on Google for everythıng...you should thınk for yourself every once ın a whıle.

Orthar
07-30-2006, 01:10 PM
correct me if I am mistaken,but people in the east China,Japan,India and south asia believe in this stuff.As for god,check in google,and find out how many results you get.
666,000,000. If you were trying to crack a joke on the 666, shut up. Ok, I myself do not belive in reincarnation, nor am I sure there is an afterlife. Reincarnation is BS. So correct me if I am wrong, the whole thing with reincarnation is once your memories and put into a baby, therefore you are being born again. Honestly people, does that seem at all logical? I side with D.2.

InvertrevnI
07-30-2006, 04:02 PM
Death (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Death)

That's my arguement. I'm not going to attack reincarnation, but as many of you have said, it's just not supported by fact.

Dakota
08-02-2006, 10:28 PM
reincarnation...it's just not supported by fact.

It's not supported by anything.

Saying that when we die we get sent up to a giant chocolate brownie in the sky has as much evidence for it as reincarnation.

RedRoninMan
08-21-2006, 10:21 PM
I dont believe in god, ghosts, or re-incarnation in any shape or form.