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// shattered-dreams //
05-18-2004, 10:32 PM
Okay, there's a thread about same sex marriages... i want to see... who on these forums is gay/lesbian/bisexual?

I am bi...

Also, what are your opinions on kids these days and their opinions about homosexuals? do you feel that homosexuals are still targeted ?

(mods do not lock this unless you feel this is a repeat of the same sex marriage thread... if you lock this for any other reason then i have reason to believe that you think there is something wrong with homosexuality)

Tamer Marco
05-18-2004, 10:36 PM
This thread is gonna be locked quick Taro...



And if you must know i'm straight. Yeah kids are definetly being targeted as homo/lesbian prey. They usually go for the weak so children shall always be targeted.

Ironshell Blastoise
05-18-2004, 11:42 PM
I'm straight, but I'm not homophobic like half the ignorant morons that populate the world.

Ierdar
05-19-2004, 12:38 AM
I'm Straight. =\

And, I dont care if someones gay/lesbian or bi. =\ And people who do really piss me off.

A few months ago(actually, mighta been weeks) some of my friends participated in a "Day of Silence", which(I'm still dont understand the whole thing) they did not talk all day, in which they go as the "gay" kids over america, and dont fight back or anything to people who insult them and such. I would have participated, cept they never told me about it. =\ But, they were called fags, gay, all that sh..stuff. If I would have been around when they were called that, I would have had some ass kicking to do. -_-' I respected my friends more for doing that. =\

And, Taro, I respect you for coming out and saying you are Bi. ^_^ Not many people(at least not that i know of) would say something like that, in fear of being made fun of. .-.

Bakura2004
05-19-2004, 12:48 AM
Seems like a very honerable thing to do. I respect that.
As for me, I'm straight. And I don't care about homos. I say if your happy and you found somebody you care about you do that.Who cares what others think.

Ironshell Blastoise
05-19-2004, 01:36 AM
Normally it shouldn't matter what others think. But when the "others" are limiting your rights to love someone, (governmentcoughcough) then something has to be done.

I love my country, and hate my government

Ierdar
05-19-2004, 01:50 AM
lol, I know how you feel Mr. K. =P Love da country, hate its governemt and people. =P

// shattered-dreams //
05-19-2004, 09:42 PM
[QUOTE=Dark Luddico]This thread is gonna be locked quick Taro...



[QUOTE]

... No it won't .

Anyway, I don't know you all IRL, so I can say whatever I want. I don't care if I'm bi, whee.

Anyway...i hate it when people say 'THIS IS SO GAY" or **** liek that.

or say "YOUR A ******"

guys have a lot of pressure... there always being called gay to make fun of them .

Chaos Mage
05-19-2004, 10:17 PM
I don't have a problem with people being "gay" as long as they make any moves on me, complain that they can't change their sexuality because "we were born gay", and/or all that other crap.

Ierdar
05-19-2004, 10:23 PM
Yeah, same here taro. When people say things are gay(how can inanimate objects be homosexual and ect?) or say they're "retarded", just pisses me off.

My brother says things are "retarded" all the time. :: \ And when he doesnt get his way, he says everything is gay. Stupit little kid. =\

Agent Orange
05-19-2004, 10:27 PM
Its stupid. A lot of the kids at my school call each other gay, school gay, everything they dont like is gay. They are stupid.

And I have nothing agenst gays.

I think that all people are equal no matter what.

perfectpichu
05-19-2004, 10:30 PM
I don't give a s*it about whether or not someone is gay. The kids at my school kept on calling one of my friends gay eventhough he wasn't. And that really pissed me off! People shouldn't jude others just by how they talk or act! They should get to know that person before they make fun of him/her. But that's another story. I think that we should accept people how they are. Gays/homosexuals/lebians are just like the rest of us and should be treated just like us as well.


Dang....... Me and my speeches. :rolleyes:

Crimson Spider
05-19-2004, 10:56 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of homosexuality, as you may or may not have guessed.

The thing that annoys me is the whole "equal rights" and the whole "respect someone for who they are" thing that people like th throw around, though I could very easily debate for hours about the nature of those statements and the applicability to the situation.

It ain't so much really that they exist. Screw whoever you want. Just don't bother me with it.

It's when they complain about stuff, and mess around with things that I am related to and participate in in a way that I do not find comfortable in the least bit, or infringes on my rights and my beliefs in order to suit their own personal desires from a curable preferance that they use to dictate their decisions, or they play the "I'm a poor little tortured boy though I bring half of it upon myself".

Chaos Mage
05-19-2004, 11:09 PM
That's what bothers me also. Homosexuals and other liberals are taking over our media, crumbling our society down to a huge orgy over time. Of course, I think this will die out after people open their eyes to the fact that being homosexual is just what we weren't made to be (i.e. Most risky behavior of getting AIDS is having a gay ole' time.). :razz:

Kenny_C.002
05-20-2004, 03:54 AM
I agree, Crimson Spider (Trying not toe mix up with CrimsonSea), about your argument there. I don't mind gays at all as long as they don't make a move on me. Like seriously, what's the huge thing about gay people in general? Apparently it's unnatural. Hey if one can prove that, I'll buy it. Until then, I'll accept it as part of the natural world (as I think I did see homosexual behaviour in non-human species on Discovery one time). Either way, I hang would with gays and lesbians, and they clearly identify themselves (being proud), and I don't give a cent about it. They're people.

Oh
I'm head over heels for women...yup...head over heels. (Tomiko Van = hotness/dangerous/dynamite)

Ironshell Blastoise
05-20-2004, 06:16 PM
I used to be incredibly homophobic until I met a gay guy at a cafe with some friends. Just like any other person. So he was slightly feminine, he was still a person. And damn funny too. I find that if the majority (the anti-gays) would quit making a big deal about people who are gay and quit trying to separate them, then gays would quit making a fuss over their rights and whatnot.

akdude
05-21-2004, 02:50 AM
Well I have nothing against gays. My ex-gf's parents were gay. Actually, I'm friends with a few, and I used to be gay. So I guess I'm bi. But I'm tryin to be just straight. And even though I'm changin my ways, I have nothing against them. I'm friends with a few. And what they do is their business. But I do think that people need to leave gays alone and let them move on. What gays do is up to them. No one has a right to tell them what to do. But I wish Good Luck to yall. I'll be rootin for u guys to get ur rights.

Ak

Perkele
05-21-2004, 01:28 PM
OK, my opinion about homosexuals is that they are mentally ill or just really, really wants attention. I am NOT homopohobic, i have couple of homosexual friend, both boys and girls, and i don't feel uneasy with them, as long as they don't start speaking about they oh-so-special sexuality.

I mean, homosexuality, just like nymphomania and pedophility(sp?), are mental illnesses. Homosexuality just isn't considered as "abnormal behaviour" in today's world, unlike nymphomania and pedophility. Because i obviously don't have personal experiences of being gay, i don't know how many of the homosexuals would like to be straight, or "normal", but those homos who run around everywhere, "fighting for their rights" and doing all kinds of provocative stuff annoy the hell out of me. Those kind of people should be locked to mental institutes along with the other mentally illl people, like the scitzophrenic(sp?) and manic-depressive.

I think homosexuality is nothing else but mental illness that has become something like a trend phenomenon.

The Elite Ygseto
05-21-2004, 09:25 PM
Like most people I don't care about people being gay. My uncle is gay and is HIV+. It's really sad thinking when and if he dies from it he'll be in hell.

People call me gay all the time, while i'm not. I would say i'm a little metrosexual (Acts like a gay person, but is strait) when i'm a little... ummm... lets say i'm "eleavated."

About the marigages(sp?), I really think they should be able to get maried at all (It's a little religious). They can live togeather but thats a far as you can go.

Agian it's a little religious and i don't want to explain it, because it might offened someone.

BTW me is a strait man *goes and lifts weights*.

Seven
05-21-2004, 10:32 PM
Homosexuality shouldn't even be a subject. It's normal, it's fine, it's no different from heterosexuality or bisexuality.
Everyone should have equal rights for the law, and bla bla, so on.

Sexuality is a part of a person's character, not a person as a whole >.>

akdude
05-22-2004, 04:54 PM
I didn't want to bring this up, but Ygseto is somewhat right. It is a little religious. But that's not all. Now Seven is actually somewhat wrong. Acording to the Bible, homesexuality is wrong. But no one has the right to tell someone what they can be and caint be. And yes, this shouldn't be a subject. But everyone is intitled to their optinion on this matter.

I hope no one is offended by my post.

Ak

Seven
05-22-2004, 06:59 PM
I didn't want to bring this up, but Ygseto is somewhat right. It is a little religious. But that's not all. Now Seven is actually somewhat wrong. Acording to the Bible, homesexuality is wrong. But no one has the right to tell someone what they can be and caint be. And yes, this shouldn't be a subject. But everyone is intitled to their optinion on this matter.

I hope no one is offended by my post.

Ak
(( Not offended ))
I don't believe in the bible, and as a matter of fact, I think christianity as a whole is stupid. There is no right or wrong when religion is involved. But as you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Joe Moma
05-22-2004, 11:58 PM
I don't think gay people have a right to get married because if god wanted to make gay people he would of had adam and adam not adam and eve.

Tamer Marco
05-23-2004, 12:53 AM
So just becuase thier different you say that they can't marry? That's a little low dude.


I used to be the same way until I found out my uncle was gay. Then, I changed my whole theroy on gay/les/bi people. It's your opinon but in a odd way your kinda right. Gay people should do what they want to but to me it's a little freaky...





EDIT: Plus homosexuality was common over 5000 years ago. (Aka Sodom, Gomoro) If it was that common don't you think god would of destroyed that religon in the first place. And here's a fact: Martin Luther King Jr.02 didn't write his speechs. A gay man could right very well and had the same opinon's as him. He didn't want to got out in the open because he would be talked about and everything. So who got the credit? Martin Luther King Jr. The man's just being reconized today.

Joe Moma
05-23-2004, 02:19 PM
I have no problem with them living but getting married is crazzy whos gonna keep the family alive after you cant have a kid with two guys.

Channel Delibird
05-23-2004, 03:14 PM
I don't think gay people have a right to get married because if god wanted to make gay people he would of had adam and adam not adam and eve.

I don't want to offend anyone here, but you can't use religion as evidence in a debate...seeing as nobody can prove anything about the adam and eve story.

Tamer Marco
05-23-2004, 08:41 PM
I have no problem with them living but getting married is crazzy whos gonna keep the family alive after you cant have a kid with two guys. Haven't you ever heard of adoption? The child may be unhappy byt he'll have a home.

Deoxys0003
05-24-2004, 03:51 AM
I don't want to offend anyone here, but you can't use religion as evidence in a debate...seeing as nobody can prove anything about the adam and eve story.

um, you consider yourself non-religious right? Too bad, you are. Not believing in a God is in itself a religion where you have beliefs and practically a whole unique worldview, similar to those who believe in a God. You may not believe in God, but that doesn't make you non-religious.

So basically, if he can't say his religious views, you can't say anything either. :naughty:

Ironshell Blastoise
05-24-2004, 04:54 AM
Marriage isn't about making kids, its about being with the one you love. So, no, sexuality doesn't have anything to do with technicalities of marriage.

Seven
05-24-2004, 01:45 PM
um, you consider yourself non-religious right? Too bad, you are. Not believing in a God is in itself a religion where you have beliefs and practically a whole unique worldview, similar to those who believe in a God. You may not believe in God, but that doesn't make you non-religious.

So basically, if he can't say his religious views, you can't say anything either. :naughty:

But he doesn't pray to non-religiousness, does he? And he doesn't claim to know what people should and should not do, like religions do. And I wonder what the name of the sacred book is non-religious people read...
And being non-religious doesn't necessarily mean Atheist >> I consider myself non-religious, but if it is proven to me that God exist, I'll believe it.
Also, in his post he just said you couldn't use the Adam and Eve story as evidence, as a reaction to another post that took it as fact, and the Bible simply isn't factual.
How can you have a debate when you can't state your opinion? As long as you don't present your believes as fact >.>

Why the long post? I don't know x_x.

Channel Delibird
05-24-2004, 02:19 PM
um, you consider yourself non-religious right? Too bad, you are. Not believing in a God is in itself a religion where you have beliefs and practically a whole unique worldview, similar to those who believe in a God. You may not believe in God, but that doesn't make you non-religious.

So basically, if he can't say his religious views, you can't say anything either. :naughty:

Um....I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap. -_- Adam and Eve are not evidence, merely what people believe is true. Beliefs are not fact. And anything that's not fact can't be evidence. Even if I was a Christian, I would have said the same thing...as it's not proof, it's not evidence. I'm not denouncing his religion as false or anything. -_-

akdude
05-25-2004, 01:45 AM
To believe in the bible or not is up to u. But! To not believe in the bible shall send u to hell. Now Adam and Eve rn't the only evidence. The whole Bible is evidence. It's the word of God Himself. And God does say "If Thy sleep with a man as he does a woman (or animal...Don't ask), thou shall be destroyed along with the man (and/or animal)." Same as women. So either way they r sinning. But what they do is their business. And as people, they have rights. I'm sure if everyone that have posted here was gay, I'm sure they would want rights too. This argument should stop. Everyone has rights weither we like it or not.

Seven
05-25-2004, 01:41 PM
To believe in the bible or not is up to u. But! To not believe in the bible shall send u to hell. Now Adam and Eve rn't the only evidence. The whole Bible is evidence. It's the word of God Himself. And God does say "If Thy sleep with a man as he does a woman (or animal...Don't ask), thou shall be destroyed along with the man (and/or animal)." Same as women. So either way they r sinning. But what they do is their business. And as people, they have rights. I'm sure if everyone that have posted here was gay, I'm sure they would want rights too. This argument should stop. Everyone has rights weither we like it or not.


To believe in the bible or not is indeed up to me. But! To not believe shall not send me to hell, because it doesn't exist. Now, the story of Adam and Eve is not just the only fictional story. The whole bible is. It's the word of people themselves. And these people said "If Thy sleep with a man as he does a woman or animal, thou shall be destroyed along with the man and/or animal. The said the same about women.
But if we go back to the real world, instead of the fictionworld, these people aren't sinning. I'm sure as well that all these people want rights, because they deserve them.

Get the point?
The way you feel about this post, I feel about your post.

tonytrainer
05-25-2004, 05:58 PM
To believe in the bible or not is indeed up to me. But! To not believe shall not send me to hell, because it doesn't exist. Now, the story of Adam and Eve is not just the only fictional story. The whole bible is. It's the word of people themselves. And these people said "If Thy sleep with a man as he does a woman or animal, thou shall be destroyed along with the man and/or animal. The said the same about women.
But if we go back to the real world, instead of the fictionworld, these people aren't sinning. I'm sure as well that all these people want right, because they deserve them. Everyone has right, and I really like that.

Get the point?
The way you feel about this post, I feel about your post.

You guys got to meet my Religion teacher....

Now, I don't have anything to do with gays, they're people who are sleeping with people of the same sex!It's the same with religion:the ortodox's don't like the muslums,the muslums hate the american(Osama Ben Ladden), etc.

It's just the way you are raised and the enviorment where you were raised!
Now...People in my school call me gay that's because I am blond and a little sensitiv!They're very stupid!I don't mind them...I never met any gays, so I don't have to wory about them...

Now about the Bible:God let's us become what we want to become, he just offers us ways to make our lives, and we choose sometimes the wrong way!
Even if we believe or not,or if He exist's or not we will find out when we dye!
I repet myself:It's the way you are raised!(I herd some news of a religious couple from Germany who didn't know about how to make a baby!)

Nohman
05-26-2004, 03:23 PM
The Bible is wrong. The Koran is wrong. The Torah is wrong. They're all not real. So screw religion and start thinking for yourself.

Anyways...I don't have a problem with gays/lesbs as long as...

1) They leave me the **** alone.
2) They don't get married.

:twisted:

akdude
05-26-2004, 07:48 PM
The Bible is wrong. The Koran is wrong. The Torah is wrong. They're all not real. So screw religion and start thinking for yourself.

Anyways...I don't have a problem with gays/lesbs as long as...

1) They leave me the **** alone.
2) They don't get married.

:twisted:

:mad: U should really watch what u say. Some people may be offended by that. Now I'm not saying u have to believe in the bible. But u need proof to back up ur theory. And if u don't have a problem with gays, then y do u want them to leave u alone and say that they caint get married? U need to rethink that.

Ak.

Perkele
05-27-2004, 09:27 AM
If you'd read Nohman's post correctly, you'd see that he said that he doesn't have anything againts them as long as they leave him alone and don't get married.

And i also think that gay marriages and all this "equal rights" thing and pride parades are load of moosepiss. Like, if they want people not to hate them and accept them as they are, then why the hell do they try to provoke us "normal people" by walking around in some strange parades in pink thongs and start accusing people of being homophobic just because they accidentally happened to nudge them in a crowded queue? Just because of this, most of the people hate homosexuals. I mean, they don't hate them for being what they are, but because they always have to make so f'ing big number about their sexuality and complain about everything the straight people do... :susp:

Seven
05-27-2004, 02:20 PM
If you'd read Nohman's post correctly, you'd see that he said that he doesn't have anything againts them as long as they leave him alone and don't get married.

And akdude doesn't understand why he has this standpoint, if he has nothing against gays. He read the post correctly. Maybe you should do the same.


And i also think that gay marriages and all this "equal rights" thing and pride parades are load of moosepiss.

They want equal right because their love deserves as much right as heterosexual love.


Like, if they want people not to hate them and accept them as they are, then why the hell do they try to provoke us "normal people" by walking around in some strange parades in pink thongs and start accusing people of being homophobic just because they accidentally happened to nudge them in a crowded queue?

Normal people...:rolleyes:. What's normal anyway. There's only majorities and minorities.
Do you honestly believe that every single gay walks around in a pink thong, in a parade? I agree, gays like that are part of the reason people are homophobic. But take it from me, gays like that are quite rare. They just get the attention.
We have something called the Gay Parade in Amsterdam annualy: half naked men, dancing on boats, mostly in pink. If you only knew how many gays hated that event, because it's (once again) one of those events that give the wrong picture.Still no reason to hate them though.
Your last statement (about the queue) is just silly o_O;.


Just because of this, most of the people hate homosexuals. I mean, they don't hate them for being what they are, but because they always have to make so f'ing big number about their sexuality and complain about everything the straight people do... :susp:
You'd be suprised how many people hate "them" for what they are. How are they making a big number out of their sexuality? With the thong parades? See above for that.
They don't complain about everything straight people do >.> they'd be complaining all day. Almost everyone's straight >.>

akdude
05-27-2004, 02:21 PM
But what you're not seeing is that, if he has nothing against them, then why is he sayin that they shouldn't get married?! They ARE PEOPLE no matter what we do or think! What if you were gay or you weren't given the oportunity to do something or have something...Wouldn't you want the same rights as everyone else? Everyone needs to start thinkin from the pov from a homosexual and start seein the light. They did NOTHING to us or to anyone. All they want is the right to have equal rights! And we're the ones that r stopping them!

I'm sure that a lot of yall are gonna continue to post and argue with me. But before you, please...look at the pov from a homosexual and put yourself in their shoes.

Ak

Seven
05-27-2004, 02:32 PM
But what you're not seeing is that, if he has nothing against them, then why is he sayin that they shouldn't get married?! They ARE PEOPLE no matter what we do or think! What if you were gay or you weren't given the oportunity to do something or have something...Wouldn't you want the same rights as everyone else? Everyone needs to start thinkin from the pov from a homosexual and start seein the light. They did NOTHING to us or to anyone. All they want is the right to have equal rights! And we're the ones that r stopping them!

I'm sure that a lot of yall are gonna continue to post and argue with me. But before you, please...look at the pov from a homosexual and put yourself in their shoes.

Ak

:clap:
*Agrees completely*
I'm suprised to find a religious person with this standpoint ^^;. :clap:

akdude
05-27-2004, 02:48 PM
There's a reason why I have this stand point. But we're not gonna go there right now.

gamevoid
05-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Ok for the topic I have no problems with gays or BIs(did that cause if its all lower it looks weird) and I am straight. As for do they bother me and the religon stuff, no they dont bother me nor do there activists thingys eather. As for the religon, I have never read the bible, and I probably never will(dont shoot me :sweat: ) I have heard that it is a sin to be a homosexual and now I have proff of that, BUT it dose not say that you will go to hell it say you will be destroyed(sp?) which from what I understand is just dying duno thogh. And for the people who dont like the rights activits then dont listen to them you can turn the chanle on TV or flip the page in the news paper or even bring your walkmen with youwhen your walking down the street. Now if one ever tried to get with me id tell them im not a homosexual(sp) not hate them forever. As for the marriges(sp?) I think its fine if they do but I dont think it should be called a marriage, I think it should be called a partnership or something with the smae partys and stuff, I say that because people(in GENERAL) mock the meaning of meariges. If people want to get married they should be sure before they do want to get married before they do, my parents were together 4(mabey 5) years before the got married.

Sorry for the speech lol

Nohman
05-27-2004, 11:03 PM
Well, If they were smart they wouldn't even think about getting married. Wouldn't that just bring them more ridicule? :twisted:

Kenny_C.002
05-28-2004, 03:29 AM
Hold on a sec, Nohman. Are you saying that the homosexuals should never marry as in they should never marry someone of the opposite gender, causing eternal hurt to the other person (who finds out about that person's sexual orientation), or they should never even get the right to civil union (which I personally they should push for instead of pushing for changing the religious meaning of marriage).

As for the reason why there are more homophobics than there should have been is largely because of the gay pride parades. I mean, the gay pride parades consists only of the stereotypical group of homosexuals and not the majority of homosexuals. Thinking about it, I'd say the minorities again stand out too much that cause such to happen...:-/

Mechaflame
05-28-2004, 05:53 AM
I'm with Nohman on this one! I mean, c'mon. THINK! :mad:

Perkele
05-28-2004, 10:38 AM
I'm with nohman also. Homosexuals should be putten in to mental insitutes instead of letting themselves get married and get equal rights. I think that homos earn as much civil rights as pedo-, dendro,- and necrophiles.

Ierdar
05-29-2004, 03:48 AM
I'm with nohman also. Homosexuals should be putten in to mental insitutes instead of letting themselves get married and get equal rights. I think that homos earn as much civil rights as pedo-, dendro,- and necrophiles.

You need to be put into a mental insitute you ass.>:E Theres nothing wrong with homoxual people. Pretty much the only difference between "them" and "us" is that they like the same sex. :: \ There is nothing wrong with that, no matter what the damn bible says. The bible was writen many years ago, and for all anyone knows, could have been made up by some crazy old drunk. >:E

Perkele
05-29-2004, 06:22 AM
I don't say that homosexuals should be put to mental institute because some dusty old tome says so, i say it because it's myown POV. I mean homosexuality fills every criterion top be a mental illness. It's something inside your mind and which cannot be cured, and it's symptom is distorted sexuality...? Sorry, i can back up my opinions more later, now i gotta go to my school's spring/school ending festival...

Crimson Spider
05-29-2004, 08:18 AM
And then people instead of having a more intelligent conversation go on about what it should and shouldn't be or what should be done.

O.K. Firstly, I am convinced that homosexuality is not naturally occuring in anything other than our own psyche. That are a vast multitude of biological designes that are in the human body that literally prevent homosexuality from being born, or natural.

Second: homosexuality is NOT an illness. It's a preferance. They are rather sound minded when they have a sexual lust for another person of the same gender, as I am sound minded when I tell the victum of a bully to introduce a crobar to the guys head.

Third: Homosexuals have the right to marry. It is same–sex marriages that are in debate, and there is another topic about that. Homosexuals also exercise that right to marry. I have heard of many complete homosexuals who would marry legally.

Fourth: God does not hate homosexuals. It is not the person, but their sins that he doesn't like.

Fifth: He never said they shouldn't marry. He said that marriage is between men and women. Two people of the same gender get in a union, then it is not marriage.

Sixth: Don't go calling everything an equal right.

Seventh: Same-sex marriages are not about love. They are about legal benifits, which is where they are called unfair. Love is a blanket term for a preferance, and is no ground to argue.

Eigth: Love exists between everything. I love my sister. I also love my computer. Both of which I can't, and wouldn't want to marry.

Nine: The Bible does speak against homosexuality. The part where it is talking about the last times.


Crap... and I was aiming for 10 points. Oh well. I hope you all are a little more enlightened about homosexuality, and things concerning it.

Perkele
05-29-2004, 11:35 AM
Actually i am not, because those are just you opinions. And i bet most of here post about homosexual rights and stuff wihout even knowing an actual gay person yourself, like me. I have lots of experience about homosexuals and how do they react to "us" and what do they think about their sexuality. And i base most of my opinions on what i have heard from them and what they have done.

Ierdar
05-30-2004, 12:13 AM
I DO indeed know "gay" and "bi" people(not including taro). And, what you are basing your opions off of is predjuice. I dont know about what goes on around you, but here they are harrased contantly for nothing. People are mean to them, yet they have done nothing to those people. They're not hurting anyone, but they're the ones being hurt. And thats how it is in most places.

Khashoggi
05-30-2004, 02:35 AM
Perk, I disagree with almost all of what you're saying, and I don't think your posts are actually entirely truthful, even from your point of view. Especially from your point of view. :wink: :tongue: I'll say no more, but you might want to watch your words unless you're intentionally causing offence, and I wouldn't put that past you. :confused:

Tart's the only bisexual I 'know', but I've several gay males as friends, and not one of them would describe their sexuality as a choice. Of course, it's possible as a subconscious choice, influenced by their past experiences and/or other factors, but according to those I know, they haven't been able to wilfully change their sexuality.

I see no reason whatsoever to treat homosexuals of either gender any differently to the sexual 'norm', and heterosexuals promoting the opposite view for reasons other than religion must have severe superiority issues, IMO. :/ But personally, I don't think that religious beliefs should influence society in any way. It's rather depressing to think that even today, the majority of active laws over America and Europe are based on one ancient book. Everything else becomes outdated, why hasn't the Bible? You'd think, that with modern science and all, people would have stopped supporting views, theories and 'history' when all the evidence for it is contained in a few Hebrew scrolls.

The one objection I have to any aspect of homosexuality is the way that some feel they have to flaunt their sexual orientation. I can accept gay bars as a convenient way to meet other gays/lesbians, but parades of men in drag? It irritates me how some act this way and still don't expect ridicule or resentment from others. I realise that the majority of the homosexual population don't, uh, think that way, though. X_x

I could be either bi or straight, I don't know yet.

Perkele
05-30-2004, 09:13 AM
I'll say no more, since no one seems to get my point. :ermm:

tonytrainer
05-30-2004, 09:20 AM
I'll say no more, since no one seems to get my point. :ermm:
I have got your point!You think gays are mental disturb!
What the others are trying to say is that they aren't!
They(the gays) just thought people of the same sex are more atractive in sexual point of view!

Perkele
05-30-2004, 10:35 AM
OH REALLY!!!!? Like, oh my god.... :susp:

tonytrainer
05-30-2004, 11:01 AM
OH REALLY!!!!? Like, oh my god.... :susp:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ha ha!That was funny!Come on every body! Let's laught! :smile:

Perkele
05-30-2004, 12:22 PM
tonytrainer, i don't want to make this thread a personal fight between you and me, but have you gone to some "1001 ways to annoy other members in forums" course? Just wondering...

Magare
05-30-2004, 02:43 PM
They(the gays) just thought people of the same sex are more atractive in sexual point of view!

I wasnt going to post anything on this thread but this is just idiotic.

First of all, lets get a few things straight. I totally agree with Perkele in his view of gays. Mine is probably even worse than his is but I dont want to repeat everything he said already...

Now, Tony! They ONLY think people of the same sex are more attractive???

Thats not normal to begin with. Nature intended people to reproduce the way we find normal. Can the human specie exist if everybody becomes gay? No. Why? BECAUSE ITS NOT NORMAL!!!

Somebody asked why we are bothered with them? The explanation was they dont hurt anyone so we should let them do what they want. Tell me, who do necrophiles hurt? In your point of view they dont hurt anyone. WIll that be the next thing we allow to be normal? So what, he wants to F*** with dead people, who are they hurting?

Now about gays getting married. If they want a civil wedding, I honestly dont give a F***. BUT, what pisses people of is when they want to get married in the church. I mean who are you kiding. If you're breaking the law of that religion ofcourse you will not be allowed to get married. If something is legal in africa, does that mean the same thing will be legal in Europe or in the States? I dont think so. Same is with religion. If you want to marry your gay partner go to a religion where that isnt a problem and stay the F*** away from christians.

Seven
05-30-2004, 04:08 PM
I wasnt going to post anything on this thread but this is just idiotic.

Now, Tony! They ONLY think people of the same sex are more attractive???

Thats not normal to begin with. Nature intended people to reproduce the way we find normal. Can the human specie exist if everybody becomes gay? No. Why? BECAUSE ITS NOT NORMAL!!!

And I suppose you have a handbook on what is normal and what isn't? Just because the majority of people is straight, doesn't mean that people who aren't are abnormal.
True, the human specie wouldn't exist if everyone was gay. Newsflash! That isn't happening, hasn't happend, and will never happen. So why is this relevant? If all humans had diabetes we wouldn't exist either :rolleyes:. Does that mean these people are abnormal? No, but to a certain extent, they are different.


Somebody asked why we are bothered with them? The explanation was they dont hurt anyone so we should let them do what they want. Tell me, who do necrophiles hurt? In your point of view they dont hurt anyone. WIll that be the next thing we allow to be normal? So what, he wants to F*** with dead people, who are they hurting?

Necrophiles are known to kill people >_>. That's who they hurt. And if they do it with corpses that are already there, they might hurt the corp's family. On top of that, a corpse can't agree on having sex, and that's a basic rule when having sex.
But when you are a necrophile, and you don't have sex with corpes, then what is the problem? And if someone would give consent before they die to let a necrophile have sex with his or her soon to be corpse, there isn't a problem either. Morally acceptable? Meh, if they both want it, and are of legal age, why not? As long as there is no extreme health risk that can't be avoided of course.


Now about gays getting married. If they want a civil wedding, I honestly dont give a F***. BUT, what pisses people of is when they want to get married in the church. I mean who are you kiding. If you're breaking the law of that religion ofcourse you will not be allowed to get married. If something is legal in africa, does that mean the same thing will be legal in Europe or in the States? I dont think so. Same is with religion. If you want to marry your gay partner go to a religion where that isnt a problem and stay the F*** away from christians.
I do get your point here, a goverment can't force churches to let gays marry in their church: seperation of church and state works both ways >_>. It would be great if all churches would marry them, but meh, they should decide that for themselves. Marriages in church have no meaning for the law, right? And civil union = marriage, but not in church? Meh, in Dutch it's both the same word, so excuse my confusement on this ^_^;.
Same rights for heterosexual and homosexual couples for the law would be what most gays want >_>. And yes CS, I mean people of the same sex marrying each other.

btw, saying f*** all the time won't make your views more credible.

Magare
05-30-2004, 05:55 PM
Okay, I shouldn't have cursed so much and for that I apologize...

Now back to the topic.

You asked if I had a guide book to what was normal? Let me ask you this. If YOU had to say which sexual relation was normal, what would you say?

About necrophiles hurting the family you probably ment its feelings. I honestly have to say, that if I found out my friends were gay I would feel really hurt and probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with them anymore. Homophobic? Maybe, but at least I'm honest.

And unfortunatly, civil union does equal marriage. It should have a different name but unfortunatly it doesnt. So blah...

And one other thing. Do you really believe in the things you just said about not minding necrophiles as long as both sides agree with it?

I dont know, maybe its just me, but I find it disgusting to see 2 men kissing each other. Luckily, there are practicly no gays in my country so I dont have to worry about seeing that.

By the way you talk, I would presume you're from Amsterdam, right? I spent a couple of days with my friends there and we did have fun (I wonder why :twisted: ), And in my experience, while people in Amsterdam do accept gays, the rest of Netherlands still consider them as disgusting (sorry, couldn't think of another word here) as me and my friends do...

Ierdar
05-30-2004, 06:24 PM
Okay, I shouldn't have cursed so much and for that I apologize...

Now back to the topic.

You asked if I had a guide book to what was normal? Let me ask you this. If YOU had to say which sexual relation was normal, what would you say?

About necrophiles hurting the family you probably ment its feelings. I honestly have to say, that if I found out my friends were gay I would feel really hurt and probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with them anymore. Homophobic? Maybe, but at least I'm honest.

And unfortunatly, civil union does equal marriage. It should have a different name but unfortunatly it doesnt. So blah...

And one other thing. Do you really believe in the things you just said about not minding necrophiles as long as both sides agree with it?

I dont know, maybe its just me, but I find it disgusting to see 2 men kissing each other. Luckily, there are practicly no gays in my country so I dont have to worry about seeing that.

By the way you talk, I would presume you're from Amsterdam, right? I spent a couple of days with my friends there and we did have fun (I wonder why :twisted: ), And in my experience, while people in Amsterdam do accept gays, the rest of Netherlands still consider them as disgusting (sorry, couldn't think of another word here) as me and my friends do...

I am all for gay rights and all, but I still find it disguting, I admit that. But, its not my buisness how someone thinks like that. I have gay friends, and after finding out that they were indeed gay, did I leav them, hell no you bastard. What if you found out your best friend was gay? Would you just drop them as a friend? I find you to be a sick bastard -_-

As for marriage, maybe it should be called something different, but meh. What does it matter? Things like this come up because someone is offended by it. Guess what, EVERYWHERE, SOMEONE I GOING TO BE OFFENDED BY SOMETHING! Just the way it is. =\

Seven
05-30-2004, 07:09 PM
You asked if I had a guide book to what was normal? Let me ask you this. If YOU had to say which sexual relation was normal, what would you say?

I would say that a heterosexual relation was more common, probably, but just as normal as a homosexual relationship.


About necrophiles hurting the family you probably ment its feelings. I honestly have to say, that if I found out my friends were gay I would feel really hurt and probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with them anymore. Homophobic? Maybe, but at least I'm honest.

Honest, yes. But one lousy friend. If your friend was gay, he would have been that the whole time, even when you didn't know. So why treat someone differently? You say that you would be hurt. Why? Because your friend trusts you so much, and tells you a very deep secret? That's one strange reason to be hurt o_O;.



And unfortunatly, civil union does equal marriage. It should have a different name but unfortunatly it doesnt. So blah...

Why?


And one other thing. Do you really believe in the things you just said about not minding necrophiles as long as both sides agree with it?

Yes, sure. It's not my business is it? I would never do it myself, but that doesn't mean I should hate others for it.


I dont know, maybe its just me, but I find it disgusting to see 2 men kissing each other. Luckily, there are practicly no gays in my country so I dont have to worry about seeing that.

Nah, it's not just you. A lot of people think that, though I don't. It's weird btw how two women kissing always seems to be more accepted -_-;.
Do you really believe that there are no gays in your country? Homosexuality is a big taboo in Croatia right? Nobody's coming out over there >_>. Believe me, you've met more gays than you think.
You won't see two men kissing because they would practically be murdered for it o_O;.


By the way you talk, I would presume you're from Amsterdam, right? I spent a couple of days with my friends there and we did have fun (I wonder why :twisted: ), And in my experience, while people in Amsterdam do accept gays, the rest of Netherlands still consider them as disgusting (sorry, couldn't think of another word here) as me and my friends do...

Lol, right. Very close to Amsterdam anyway.
This is from a site, that gives people a voting advice for the EP-elections, on June 10th (I think). Up to now, 104793 advices have been given:

In alle lidstaten moet een huwelijk tussen homoseksuele partners mogelijk zijn. ( In all members [of the EU] homosexual couples should be able to get married)
Eens (Agree)
74.5%
Neutraal (Neutral)
11.4%
Oneens (Disagree)
13.4%
Weet niet (Don't know)
0.7%


You see, almost 75% of all voters thinks gaymarriage is perfectly fine. Though I do get why you think most people hate gays, the word "gay" is often used as a term of abuse.

Magare
05-30-2004, 07:36 PM
What if you found out your best friend was gay? Would you just drop them as a friend?

Maybe I should have explained this a little bit better.

You ask if I would drop my best friend because he was gay? No, I wouldn't. Firstly and most importantly, because I know him my whole wife and I'm pretty certain he's not gay :wink: . I am one of those people who like to know everything about everyone and like to hang out with my friends, and we've seen each other exchanging fluids with girls and....its not like you would fake that :rolleyes: .

Now about my other friends. All of us, wheather we like it or not, only have up to 3 or 4 true friends, the rest are......just friends. And those others I would drop. Think of it as you like, but the fact is, when you go and meet a girl in 90% of the times your first thought isnt friendship. And even if you do become friends, its never the same as with a male friend. And when a gay introduces himself to another guy, his first thought isnt about playing soccer with him, just like its not my first thought when I introduce myself to a girl...

I dont know how you think of it, but I dont want one of my closest friends looking at my ass and thinking how it would be to stick it up my ass.


And Seven. Even I dont have anything against CIVIL gay marriages. That voting only showed that people dont mind that. I might be wrong, I'm just saying what a group of girls we spent time with in Haag said on that topic. But again, I may be wrong...

Agent Orange
05-30-2004, 07:57 PM
Margare, do you really think your closest friend would want to jack you up? Really.... :rolleyes:

Magare
05-30-2004, 08:00 PM
I was being ironic...

But if they were gay, the thought would probably cross their mind......

Seven
05-30-2004, 09:10 PM
Still, these statistics show that the Netherlands aren't homophobic as you claimed ;). Meh, I understand these girls perfectly. You need to live here to feel that most people are ok with homosexuality, even when they insult gays on a daily basis.


I was being ironic...

But if they were gay, the thought would probably cross their mind......

Maybe, but you don't know that for sure. And what does it matter, you're not gay, so there is no chance of it happening >_>.

mlugia
06-01-2004, 03:33 AM
A few things I'd like to add to the debate, if there was one.

Firstly, the "my gay friend wants to bang me" idea:
- Essentially, you're also claiming that your friends of the opposite genders wil also have had this idea, and while you may not find them disgusting because they're hot and have desirable bodies, it's the exact same thing, is it not? And especially if you don't want to sleep with them, doesn't that amount to close to, if not the same thing?

Secondly, the Civil Union idea
- Much of the debate, as pointed out before, wasn't circling around the "omfg God says no but we are in love and we want to marry" idea. The discussion and the points raised by the side of the homosexual marriage activists is the Civil Benefits. For example, a lawfully wedded couple in Canada, iirc, gets tax breaks and other benefits as a result of that piece of paper that says "Hey guess what, you're married". However, homosexual couples who wishes to get married are denied that paper, thus denying them from the benefits that they would have gotten had one of them been the opposite gender. Of course, everyone still talks about love, but Love and Religion seems more to be a cover and a pretext than anything else.
- As well, as an interesting side note, it seems that US of A's current president has also been fighting against Women's rights, or so I read in the papers.

Crimson Spider
06-01-2004, 07:11 PM
I'll say this again: there is another topic about same-sex marriages. Go there, and talk about it.

Just FYI: It isn't homosexual marriages. Homosexuals have the right to marry. It's same-sex marriages that are in question.


Next point: it is 100% possible and easy to believe you are homosexual (I avoid choice, since it really isn't. More or less just how the cookie crumbled, into a belief).

Women, in this department, are suprisingly easier to classify than men. From the lesbians that I knew, and have heard about, it usually comes from a traumatizing instance in their life, or their embarrasment in front of a man, or the standard deeper friends syndrom that occurs. These psychologically affect women into believing they have sexual attractions to other women, rather than just emotional attractions.

Since women are givin the default of being more understanding than the male gender, the boyish acts and looks of other girls is looked over as "just the way they are", and is accepted, and moved on.


Oh but the male side. Now THAT's the complicated part. Something I've observed many a time before: people believe they are homosexual long before they actually develope into an adult. I didn't start getting attracted to girls until I was 14. And the years before that, it seemed like me, and everyone else around me, only "displayed" an attraction to women by default. As if we were told to.

And even if they don't fully believe, they get into a state called "curious". This is the point in time of which a person questions their default sexuality. So they begin to experoment, though they've subconciously already chosen an expected result and thus influence their actions to lean towards that expected result (neutral don't exist here). They guage their experiences, and then move on from there.

But keep this in mind: Not every person stays homosexual forever. They go back to strait.

Kenny_C.002
06-02-2004, 02:54 AM
Technically the "curious" state is when one hits puperty, where the sudden blanket that separated the boys and the girls begin to fizzle. Of course, this is just human psychologics rather than the debate on homosexuality.

Steven
06-02-2004, 08:13 AM
They should get to know that person before they make fun of him/her.
Yeah, that's great. Lets get inside their head so we know what really gets them mad so we know what to do to tease them and get them publically humiliated...

I really don't mind if you are a homosexual, you aren't different than most people anyways, if anything, homosexuals are more understanding because they get put down because of it, and know what it's like. I also don't like how people will put down people by saying gay or retarted because when you really see those people, it's kind of a sad thing to think about... I knew this kid and he was gay and kids would always call him gay and it really pissed me off, cause that's not right... I mean the only thing I think homosexuallity is is a disorder or something like same sexual impulses, but then again, I'm not gay.

Agent Orange
06-02-2004, 11:21 PM
Duh Seven. She meant that instead of being mean to them, you should get to know them.

SSJ Metallica
06-03-2004, 05:11 AM
Personally, I don't care if one's a homosexual or not. The problem I have about it is that they get special privileges for breaking a law of what marriage is, the convenant between God and the man and woman that they, the man and woman, stay in bondage until they die. But no, today's permiscuous world decided to change that convenant to where everyone can just get married by signing a legal document.

The homos can have their sex in a closet, but it's just sick and wrong to have it to where everyone sees it and appreciates it. Just like I don't care if you're a druggy, but if he/she starts encouraging everyone to corrupt society to do drugs and they do it, then that's where the source of my problems are.

*Is ready to get struck back*

Seven
06-03-2004, 02:28 PM
Duh Seven. She meant that instead of being mean to them, you should get to know them.
You meant Steven, right?


But no, today's permiscuous world decided to change that convenant to where everyone can just get married by signing a legal document.
lol XD Dramaqueen! ^_^; Everyone? People of legal age. Period.


The homos can have their sex in a closet, but it's just sick and wrong to have it to where everyone sees it and appreciates it. Just like I don't care if you're a druggy, but if he/she starts encouraging everyone to corrupt society to do drugs and they do it, then that's where the source of my problems are.

The only situation in wich "everyone sees it" is when there is a giant gay sex shows on TV, and on the streets. Will that happen? Uhm...I might be wrong here..but I guess... *feel wind direction*uhm... I guess it won't.
You son't have to like gaysex, you don't get to see it anyway. Not more than you do now, anyway.

The God part is religious, so meh, dun wanna debate that.

SSJ Metallica
06-03-2004, 06:39 PM
lol XD Dramaqueen! ^_^; Everyone? People of legal age. Period.

Okay, I worded that wrong. I meant in sexual preference, not including little kids. :doh:

The only situation in wich "everyone sees it" is when there is a giant gay sex shows on TV, and on the streets. Will that happen? Uhm...I might be wrong here..but I guess... *feel wind direction*uhm... I guess it won't.
You son't have to like gaysex, you don't get to see it anyway. Not more than you do now, anyway.

Exactly, the MEDIA and in public. There are shows that encourage one to be gay in general, and it has happened on the streets back in the 70's or in the 80's (I forgot exactly when). A bunch of gays would get people that entered the public bathrooms and have a gay 'ole time. I don't want to get too much into that *sickening thought*.

The God part is religious, so meh, dun wanna debate that.

I'm fine with that.

Seven
06-05-2004, 07:06 PM
Okay, I worded that wrong. I meant in sexual preference, not including little kids. :doh:

Yeah, that's the idea. *doesn't get the problem*


Exactly, the MEDIA and in public. There are shows that encourage one to be gay in general, and it has happened on the streets back in the 70's or in the 80's (I forgot exactly when). A bunch of gays would get people that entered the public bathrooms and have a gay 'ole time. I don't want to get too much into that *sickening thought*.

1. You can't "encourage" homosexuality
2. These shows don't show real gay-sex, so you don't get confronted.
3. Sex in public is fairly common, and isn't bound to sexuality. Heteros have sex in public bathrooms as well, would you rather be confronted with that? Besides, it's illegal, so meh, I don't approve of it, no matter who does it.

SSJ Metallica
06-07-2004, 04:16 AM
Yeah, that's the idea. *doesn't get the problem*

Moving on....

1. You can't "encourage" homosexuality

Um, yes one can. The media is a good example of how homosexuality is encouraged, as well as the Civil Union. By putting television shows the focuses on homosexuality on the air, that's creating homosexual propoganda, encouraging homosexuality. The Civil Union gives certain rights to homosexuals, making the homosexual lifestyle more acceptable to live.

2. These shows don't show real gay-sex, so you don't get confronted.

Television shows aren't the only way to get confronted by gay sex. Homosexual pornography is a hell of a lot easier to access than it was like 10 years ago. With programs like Kazaa around, it's just a download away before you get your pic/movie.

3. Sex in public is fairly common, and isn't bound to sexuality. Heteros have sex in public bathrooms as well, would you rather be confronted with that? Besides, it's illegal, so meh, I don't approve of it, no matter who does it.

The gay sex in public restrooms significantly increased the AIDS rate then, making it national news. And BTW, I know that heterosexuals have sex in public restrooms, I was just using that as an example that it has happened on the streets, and probably still is.

Seven
06-07-2004, 05:31 PM
Um, yes one can. The media is a good example of how homosexuality is encouraged, as well as the Civil Union. By putting television shows the focuses on homosexuality on the air, that's creating homosexual propoganda, encouraging homosexuality. The Civil Union gives certain rights to homosexuals, making the homosexual lifestyle more acceptable to live.

Black people weren't accepted either. Now they are. OMG they're encouraging you to be black!
Do you or any of your friends feel more gay because of these shows? Safe to say that the answer is no. So even if these shows did encourage (wich they not), the fail miserably.
and what's wrong with acceptance?


Television shows aren't the only way to get confronted by gay sex. Homosexual pornography is a hell of a lot easier to access than it was like 10 years ago. With programs like Kazaa around, it's just a download away before you get your pic/movie.

Simple solution: don't search for it.


The gay sex in public restrooms significantly increased the AIDS rate then, making it national news. And BTW, I know that heterosexuals have sex in public restrooms, I was just using that as an example that it has happened on the streets, and probably still is.
Sex without condoms raises Aidsrates, it doesn't matter where it happens >_>.

Lightning
06-08-2004, 03:14 PM
OK, I only read to page four, but I was disguisted by some replies, and back up sime completely.

OK, before I refer to the bible (which I most assuredly will), I am going to make a point about what some gays do that is cruel. There is a gay guy at my school, that went out with a girl. No one knew that he was gay when he was going out with this girl. Then, when they were going out still, the gay guy told EVERYONE he was gay! While he was going out with this girl. For one thing, the girl was very sad, and dumped him right after he told everyone, and is now made fun of for going out with a gay guy. He should have thought of her, and just said no when she asked him out, instead of thinking of himself and protecting HIS reputation. There is a thing about the word JOY that people made up that I think is very cool, and should be listened to. Put Jesus(J) first, then Others(O) second, then Yourself(Y) last. Jesus, Others, Yourself spells JOY.

Now, I can't remember the verse, but it applies to supposed to being straight indirectly. It says that Jesus is at the head of men, and men are at the head of their WIFE (Not spouse or husband). Also, in Matthew 19:3 the pharisees are asking if it is OK for a MAN TO DIVORCE HIS WIFE for just any reason, and Jesus replies in Matthew 19:4-6, "Have you not read that he who made them in the beginning 'made them MALE AND FEMALE,' and said, 'For this reason a MAN shall leave his FATHER AND MOTHER and be joined to his WIFE, and the two shall become one flesh'? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man seperate."

So there are three referances is Matthew 19: 4-6 that it should be man and woman, not woman and woman, nor man and man.

And one more thing before I end this post (which I already did, this is an edit)
Seven said just don't search for gay pornography, well, some of it is displayed with popups, remember that!

mlugia
06-08-2004, 03:31 PM
A few things:

1) Are you saying all gay people are as bad as that guy? If not, then you have no point...

2) Isn't it true that most guys are assumed to be jerks like that anyways? If he was hetero he'd just be cheating on her with like 5 billion other girls, I'm not sure the girl'd feel any better.

3) What if there are people who're not Christian, or one step further, non-religious? Does that give them the right to be Homosexual then?

4) Popup porn occur when
a) You've been looking at porn.
b) You got spyware from sites that display porn.
c) You got spyware from sites that allow you to download WAREZ
d) You've been to a site that allows you to download WAREZ

The first 2, of course, I'm going to assume the bible would be against anyways, so that's a m00t point right there. The latter 2, well, Warez are illegal, so if you've been downloading warez, you're breaking the law, whether you're homosexual or not.

And if you disagree with the above post, I admit I don't know if you can find popup porn anywhere else, but if you know of a site, go nuts and post it.

Lightning
06-08-2004, 03:45 PM
1) I do have a point. I am saying that some gay people are cruel enough to hurt other people just to protect their reputation of being gay.

2) Actually, not all guys are like that, and in fact, the majority of the people at my school never cheat whatsoever. What you are doing is turning it over to make a stereotype that guys are jerks in defense of a gay guy that hurt someone else, only thinking of himself!

3) Well, then I guess they can just ignore my post then about the religious preferances.

4)Actually, I've never gotten popup porn, whether hetero or homesexual, but my friend got a flood of it once. It doesn't matter where you go for what kind of popups you get, but some places make it where you get popups, no matter what they are about.

mlugia
06-08-2004, 03:59 PM
1, 2) Actually, you're stereotyping aren't you? You're saying that because of 1 gay person's actions you think all the gay people in this world are like that. I'm using the opposite stereotype, and you're disagreeing with it?

What if I saw a black person murder someone? Does that mean I can say all black people should be killed for being murderers? Not really. The same thing applies here. Everyone's proud, everyone wants to protect their reputation. It's just as rare to find a humble heterosexual as it is to find a humble homosexual, is it not? The age old stereotype of Homosexual people are "The best men are always gay" and "Gay people act like sissies", and I'm not sure I agree with either.

3) n/a

4) Unfortunately, you're wrong right there. The only way you can get porn popups is to go to a porn site/warez site/sites associated with porn, or get spyware that came from those sites. And Spyware works independantly in your machine, churning out popups when you're surfing no matter what the site, but the INITIAL site that you get it from IS in fact one of the above sites.

Lightning
06-08-2004, 04:41 PM
1, 2) Actually, you're stereotyping aren't you? You're saying that because of 1 gay person's actions you think all the gay people in this world are like that. I'm using the opposite stereotype, and you're disagreeing with it?

What if I saw a black person murder someone? Does that mean I can say all black people should be killed for being murderers? Not really. The same thing applies here. Everyone's proud, everyone wants to protect their reputation. It's just as rare to find a humble heterosexual as it is to find a humble homosexual, is it not? The age old stereotype of Homosexual people are "The best men are always gay" and "Gay people act like sissies", and I'm not sure I agree with either.

3) n/a

4) Unfortunately, you're wrong right there. The only way you can get porn popups is to go to a porn site/warez site/sites associated with porn, or get spyware that came from those sites. And Spyware works independantly in your machine, churning out popups when you're surfing no matter what the site, but the INITIAL site that you get it from IS in fact one of the above sites.


1,2) If you had actually READ my post, you would have seen SOME gay people not automatically assumed I meant ALL gay people.

3)N/A

4) NO IT'S NOT! I'm just not going to argue with you here because obviously all you're going to say, just like last time, is say yes it is, and repeat what you said the last two times.

Seven
06-08-2004, 05:04 PM
1,2) If you had actually READ my post, you would have seen SOME gay people not automatically assumed I meant ALL gay people.

3)N/A

4) NO IT'S NOT! I'm just not going to argue with you here because obviously all you're going to say, just like last time, is say yes it is, and repeat what you said the last two times.

Some people are mean. period. Gay, straight, black, white, pruple for all I care, some people are mean.

4) mlugia is right, but meh, if you don't want to argue, nobody's going to force you >_>

mlugia
06-08-2004, 05:15 PM
1,2) If you had actually READ my post, you would have seen SOME gay people not automatically assumed I meant ALL gay people.

3)N/A

4) NO IT'S NOT! I'm just not going to argue with you here because obviously all you're going to say, just like last time, is say yes it is, and repeat what you said the last two times.


1,2)
1) I do have a point. I am saying that some gay people are cruel enough to hurt other people just to protect their reputation of being gay.

That's not a point. I can say some black people are cruel enough to kill others. Time to exterminate black people? Not really. Your example only serves to create a stereotype that you're basing your argument on (other than religious reasons, since religion is a touchy topic). Otherwise, why did you even bring up that point? I know more heterosexual cruel people than I do homosexuals period, so does that prove anything? No. It doesn't show that Heterosexuals are more cruel or any kind of assumptions that can be made from 1 isolated incident.

4) Prove it. I can prove my point. Can you? (Aka find a site.)

The Dark Lord
06-08-2004, 06:51 PM
I'm a Bi, will i get banned for this?
if there is any gays or bi's out there who are shy to tell everyone(like me at first) the you can PM me if you want :wink: , I do have a nice side :biggrin: .

Lightning
06-08-2004, 07:24 PM
1,2)


That's not a point. I can say some black people are cruel enough to kill others. Time to exterminate black people? Not really. Your example only serves to create a stereotype that you're basing your argument on (other than religious reasons, since religion is a touchy topic). Otherwise, why did you even bring up that point? I know more heterosexual cruel people than I do homosexuals period, so does that prove anything? No. It doesn't show that Heterosexuals are more cruel or any kind of assumptions that can be made from 1 isolated incident.

4) Prove it. I can prove my point. Can you? (Aka find a site.)

First of all, I can't prove my point, or prove your point. I have a pop up protector and there is no way I'm taking it. Plues the fact that it is very hard to prove my point, cause I would have to wait around all day for a porn popup, and when I do, I'm not posting it, and if I said I did, people could just say I was lying.

mlugia
06-08-2004, 08:29 PM
Unfortunately, when someone cannot disprove a point through their own proof, it's often better not to argue said point to begin with, in this case Seven's.

As well, I'm pretty sure I can prove mine. Just go to sex.com vs pokemon.com. Yes, it's general, but in all my years of Onlineness I've not seen one porn popup that popped up in a site that wasn't related to pornography OR illegal things such as warez. Oddly though, Warez sites seem to have a preference of being affiliated with Sex sites.

Magare
06-08-2004, 09:32 PM
First of all, to the Dark Lord! You say you're bisexual.... Dont get me wrong, but you're 12, how can you have any idea if you're bi? You probably never kissed.....

mlugia........

You do have a good point there, going to pokemon.com will never get you a sex popup. However going on some news sites WILL get you one. First of all, they are very often hacker targets and are thrown in. And a lot of those sites allow porn popups because they pay them to keep it there...

mlugia
06-09-2004, 12:28 AM
I will disagree a little, because on the same logic that pokemon.com has no porno popups because

- Hackers don't care (This does not apply to News sites, but...)
- Big sites are maintained by staff members. Any hacking would be almost always IMMEDIATELY detected and fixed.

Therefore,
If the news sites you go to have porno popups just so they get paid, you need to actually read real news. News sites like that are usually trash. News sites, just like most major websites, do have a code of conduct and therefore would not be accepting deals that include age restricted deals. Unless, of course, it's a site like porn-news.com (if there is such as site), because your local newspaper is made for everyone, not just for 18+ people.

(contact your local paper and find out if they sell popups to porn sites. I know the ones in my province/country don't. :-/)

Kenny_C.002
06-09-2004, 02:17 AM
Technically if you're sharing a computer with someone else, the possibility of spyware of porn sites will be there. Obviously it's too situational to count as anything, but the possibility IS there for a child to see pornography due to others' behaviours.

Anyway, that should be that, considering it's not a discussion of homosexuals.

I'd have to admit that 12 year-olds probably don't know their sexual orientations yet, and CAN be influenced by the outer environment. I'm saying some homosexuality might come from external influence. I know for a fact that some women choose to be homosexual becasue they could never find a man that would not hurt them (it's environmental there). I'm neutral on whether homosexuality is natural or not by birth.

Inferno
06-09-2004, 04:57 AM
In my experiences and encounters with people, and taking into account all the people I know, it seems to me that most if not all homosexuals have outside influences no matter what their age is. I do not know many homosexuals that were brought up in a sound way and have no problems. The way other people treat them and the way they handle relationships especially troubled or hard relationships with other people seems to me to be a little different. It seems to me that the reason a lot of people are homosexual is because they have ahd trouble with other people in their past. Rather that person was a family member, a love interest, or just a friend, they've all had problems with others and have, in my eyes, handled the situation very poorly and only hurt themselves. I know some homosexuals that are starving for attention, because they did not receive that attention from their parents or were overshadowed by siblings. I do know a few people who say they are homosexual, and it seems to me that they are trying to hide other problems and other things happening within their personal life, and by saying they are gay it masks other things. Now, I'm not trying to say that all homosexuals have or have had "troubled pasts", but a majority of the homosexuals I know come off that way.
That's also not to say that people are not born homosexual, or to rule out that emotionally people can be drawn towards same-sexes; but I have read, heard, experienced, and know so much about experiments with the chemical attraction between a man and a woman that I cannot believe truthfully that a person who has no chemical imbalances or no hardships in life with other people can be homosexual, but I could be wrong. I'm very interested in what you all think, this is a really good discussion, and I hope there are no hurt feelings, and that we can all speak with open minds and learn from each other.

~delfino feroce
07-23-2004, 11:46 PM
In my experiences and encounters with people, and taking into account all the people I know, it seems to me that most if not all homosexuals have outside influences no matter what their age is. I do not know many homosexuals that were brought up in a sound way and have no problems. The way other people treat them and the way they handle relationships especially troubled or hard relationships with other people seems to me to be a little different. It seems to me that the reason a lot of people are homosexual is because they have ahd trouble with other people in their past. Rather that person was a family member, a love interest, or just a friend, they've all had problems with others and have, in my eyes, handled the situation very poorly and only hurt themselves. I know some homosexuals that are starving for attention, because they did not receive that attention from their parents or were overshadowed by siblings. I do know a few people who say they are homosexual, and it seems to me that they are trying to hide other problems and other things happening within their personal life, and by saying they are gay it masks other things. Now, I'm not trying to say that all homosexuals have or have had "troubled pasts", but a majority of the homosexuals I know come off that way.
That's also not to say that people are not born homosexual, or to rule out that emotionally people can be drawn towards same-sexes; but I have read, heard, experienced, and know so much about experiments with the chemical attraction between a man and a woman that I cannot believe truthfully that a person who has no chemical imbalances or no hardships in life with other people can be homosexual, but I could be wrong. I'm very interested in what you all think, this is a really good discussion, and I hope there are no hurt feelings, and that we can all speak with open minds and learn from each other.

That is totally not ture, homosexuals are not that way because they have trouble.

Inferno
07-24-2004, 05:32 AM
That's just the pattern I noticed. That is very common with almost everyone homosexual I know. But I could be very wrong, I'm just pointing out similarities and what I infer.

Chris
07-29-2004, 03:39 AM
In my experiences and encounters with people, and taking into account all the people I know, it seems to me that most if not all homosexuals have outside influences no matter what their age is. I do not know many homosexuals that were brought up in a sound way and have no problems. The way other people treat them and the way they handle relationships especially troubled or hard relationships with other people seems to me to be a little different. It seems to me that the reason a lot of people are homosexual is because they have ahd trouble with other people in their past. Rather that person was a family member, a love interest, or just a friend, they've all had problems with others and have, in my eyes, handled the situation very poorly and only hurt themselves. I know some homosexuals that are starving for attention, because they did not receive that attention from their parents or were overshadowed by siblings. I do know a few people who say they are homosexual, and it seems to me that they are trying to hide other problems and other things happening within their personal life, and by saying they are gay it masks other things. Now, I'm not trying to say that all homosexuals have or have had "troubled pasts", but a majority of the homosexuals I know come off that way.
That's also not to say that people are not born homosexual, or to rule out that emotionally people can be drawn towards same-sexes; but I have read, heard, experienced, and know so much about experiments with the chemical attraction between a man and a woman that I cannot believe truthfully that a person who has no chemical imbalances or no hardships in life with other people can be homosexual, but I could be wrong. I'm very interested in what you all think, this is a really good discussion, and I hope there are no hurt feelings, and that we can all speak with open minds and learn from each other.

I accept the fact that you can see things both ways, but homosexuality is certainly not a choice, nor something that people turn to when times are tough. Chances are there are equally as many heterosexuals who were brought up in an "unsound way" as you say. Those people are victims of circumstance, disregarding sexual orientation. Even if someone was having a "tough time," resorting to the opposite sex for love just doesn't seem logical, so if you could explain, please do. If you were genetically preordained to be attracted to females, for instance, resorting to males would make that person more miserable/shunned in today's society. Your observation seems to be one of coincidence rather than science, or rather that they are unhappy because they are homosexual, not the other way around.

Inferno
07-30-2004, 10:55 AM
I do not think that this is an explanation to why people are homosexual. The likeness or resemblance between many of the homosexuals I know may very well be coincidental.

How is it not an option? People have no control over their sexual orientation? People go around and have intercourse with whomever their bodies tell them to? I do not believe that to be so.

"Even if someone was having a 'tough time,' resorting to the opposite sex for love just doesn't seem logical, so if you could explain, please do"
I will try to give more on this thought. To me, resorting to love from anyone during a time of need doesn't seem illogical. When people feel left out, shunned, vindicated, or just feel like they're alone; going to others for comfort is not an uncommon thing. If people want attention, and they crave contact so much, there is no limit to where they will go to get it. So, if a person is having a hard time and wants comfort, going to someone of the same sex or opposite sex seems very logical, as long as that person is being filled of a void. When it seems like everything around you is falling apart or that so much is wrong, and you feel like you have no control; finding someone that will be there for you provides a great and wonderful sensation/feeling. This sensation could be love. A way of consummating love is intercourse or sex. But I shouldn't have to explain that. When you have someone to share an experience with, it makes it a lot less stressful and makes your "tough time" go by a lot easier. So, resorting to people during a "time of need" seems logical, to me.

On the topic of preordained sexual attraction:
Going to someone of the same sex may make that person feel wrong inside due to society and the feeling they have in their body. It would seem very unnatural and incorrect, but the reason that person would "resort" to homosexuality was probably very traumatic. So, whatever experience they came from was probably so painful that the love they feel like they are receiving would be so comforting, that they would block out the feelings of wrongness to feel comforted.

Seven
08-01-2004, 09:29 PM
How is it not an option? People have no control over their sexual orientation? People go around and have intercourse with whomever their bodies tell them to? I do not believe that to be so.

Indeed, people have no control over their sexual orientation. Do you choose who you fall in love with? No. You haven't had a say in your own heterosexuality, did you? Neither do gays in their homosexuality.
Intercourse has nothing to do with this (yet). You don't have sex with every crush you have, or every girl you see, right? So, what makes you think gays do =/?


I will try to give more on this thought. To me, resorting to love from anyone during a time of need doesn't seem illogical. When people feel left out, shunned, vindicated, or just feel like they're alone; going to others for comfort is not an uncommon thing. If people want attention, and they crave contact so much, there is no limit to where they will go to get it. So, if a person is having a hard time and wants comfort, going to someone of the same sex or opposite sex seems very logical, as long as that person is being filled of a void. When it seems like everything around you is falling apart or that so much is wrong, and you feel like you have no control; finding someone that will be there for you provides a great and wonderful sensation/feeling. This sensation could be love. A way of consummating love is intercourse or sex. But I shouldn't have to explain that. When you have someone to share an experience with, it makes it a lot less stressful and makes your "tough time" go by a lot easier. So, resorting to people during a "time of need" seems logical, to me.

Yeah, sure. In certain cases, what you're saying might be true. People who have gaysex once in their life time. Cus what you're talking bout here isn't homosexuality =/.
Think of all the boys who fell in love with other boys in Kindergarten, or in high school. Boys who only remember liking other boys, and men. Mmm?

*Note: boys can be replaced by girls


On the topic of preordained sexual attraction:
Going to someone of the same sex may make that person feel wrong inside due to society and the feeling they have in their body. It would seem very unnatural and incorrect, but the reason that person would "resort" to homosexuality was probably very traumatic. So, whatever experience they came from was probably so painful that the love they feel like they are receiving would be so comforting, that they would block out the feelings of wrongness to feel comforted.

...ok, whatever. This is just guessing =/. When you go looking for a traumatic experience to explain someone's sexual orientation, you're always going to find something, cus everybody , gay, straight, or bi, has had a traumatic experience in one point of his/her life. Everybody comes into contact with death, deceases, fights, w/e.

Watching porn is also seen as wrong in this society, yet thousands (I mean millions =b) look at it daily. O M G This must mean they have had a very traumatic experience, so severe, that they're unable to love a real a real person!

-_-;;

You also make it seem like the complete society disapproves of homosexuality, wich isn't true. And gays don't feel "wrong inside " either >_>. When they've accepted their sex. pref. at least.

Inferno
08-01-2004, 11:42 PM
When I say "sexual orientation", I am referring to sex not love. I should've made that more clear. That's why I used "intercourse", and not "love".
So when you say: "You don't have sex with every crush you have, or every girl you see, right? So, what makes you think gays do =/?"
That supports what I am saying. You have a choice. Your own will decides whether you have sex or not.
I never meant to imply that you have a choice of whom you fall in love with.
The conditions and reasons for falling in love are so varied from case to case that it is hard to tell why people fall in love with one another. So, this may be a debate using wrongful generalizations, and I am sorry.
I also apologize if I have made it seem as though everyone in society disapproves of homosexuality. I did not mean for anyone to interpret what I was saying to mean that*. I was pointing out that science and nature seems to argue against homosexuality. Because men are scientifically proven, the male species as a whole, to be drawn to the chemicals and natural scents emitted from a woman's body. That's the only real evidence I have supporting that theory, so I might need to drop it; but it does seem like a strong argument.
For me to use "traumatic experiences" does seem unfair, for all people who have actually lived have had "rough times" and hardships. But I was also just trying to shed light on what could possibly explain a few people's sexual orientation or why an individual may feel like he/she needs another person.
Any other confusion of what I was saying, such as "wrong inside", I am sorry for. I should have made my points clearer and without generalizations or grouping, everyone should. I absolutely did not try to imply that all homosexuals feel wrong inside, I was only thinking that if men are naturally drawn to women, then feeling for and being with another man may feel unnatural.
I hope it doesn't seem like I am retracting my statements, because I do not mean to do that. I only want to clear up any sketchy things I might have said. I do not want anyone wrongfully upset with me because of a misinterpretation of what I said.
As of this moment I do not feel like people cannot be homosexual or have love for a person of the same sex. That is highly possible. I do think that it is natural for a man to be drawn to a woman. I am still trying to get a thought on homosexuality that I can truely believe without a shadow of a doubt. So, it is another wrong thing for me to try to explain something that I am not sure of myself.

Chris
08-02-2004, 04:15 AM
I do not think that this is an explanation to why people are homosexual. The likeness or resemblance between many of the homosexuals I know may very well be coincidental.

How is it not an option? People have no control over their sexual orientation? People go around and have intercourse with whomever their bodies tell them to? I do not believe that to be so.

People have no control over their sexual orientation, and I'm willing to state that as fact because I have gay friends who know it's true. We are genetically predisposed to liking a certain gender when we are created. For example, someone who is gay will not be horomonally interested in someone of the opposite gender. Sure they may have intercouse with him/her but they will not be emotionally there. Your statement that one's body (genetic makeup) does not determine which gender he or she is attracted to is false. If you were inferring that one's body (genetic makeup) does not choose who exactly they have intercourse with is true.

Inferno
08-02-2004, 03:42 PM
I'm confused, are you disproving my theory or supporting it?

With what you have said, and combining it with what I believe, it sounds to me that: People, although most are proned to be attracted to the opposite sex, are sometimes predisposed of being attracted to their same sex. That predestined attraction is a fact, but at an individual situation. Most people are predetermined to being heterosexual and some are predetermined to being homosexual. Is this a believable theory to anyone?
And although they are basically given an attraction to a certain sex, people sometimes have emotionaless intercourse with others that do not support their predisposed sexual orientation. (Sorry, I used predisposed again, I'm running out of words... :lol: )

Chris
08-04-2004, 04:51 AM
I'm confused, are you disproving my theory or supporting it?

With what you have said, and combining it with what I believe, it sounds to me that: People, although most are proned to be attracted to the opposite sex, are sometimes predisposed of being attracted to their same sex. That predestined attraction is a fact, but at an individual situation. Most people are predetermined to being heterosexual and some are predetermined to being homosexual. Is this a believable theory to anyone?
And although they are basically given an attraction to a certain sex, people sometimes have emotionaless intercourse with others that do not support their predisposed sexual orientation. (Sorry, I used predisposed again, I'm running out of words... :lol: )

Your word usage is appalling -_- erm, on another note... people who aren't attracted to a certain gender will never have this "emotionless intercourse" as you refer to it with the unpreferred gender. A gay man would be disgusted by the thought of intercourse with a woman, and visa-versa. And yes,
Most people are predetermined to being heterosexual and some are predetermined to being homosexual.
that is very believable....

Inferno
08-06-2004, 12:39 AM
I'm sorry to have appalled anyone.
But the thing is that naturally a person would have a preferred gender or be attracted to a certain gender by this theory. So, by this "very believable" theory, all people would have a certain gender of which they are attracted.

But if you're referring to bisexuality, well... that's just another subject.

Chris
08-08-2004, 05:46 AM
I'm sorry to have appalled anyone.
But the thing is that naturally a person would have a preferred gender or be attracted to a certain gender by this theory. So, by this "very believable" theory, all people would have a certain gender of which they are attracted.

But if you're referring to bisexuality, well... that's just another subject.

Are we even arguing anymore? :think:

You seem to be just restating what I've said...

Bisexuality is another issue. Look at the subject :wink:

art
08-08-2004, 12:55 PM
Even if you were right, inferno, which I am not saying you are not, what does it matter? If people become gay or bisexual because they've had problems, what's wrong with that? do ya have to do it for the right reasons or something? The things you decvelop to deal with things are uncontrollable. once you've developed it, you may find men/woman attractive. is there anything wrong with that? you find them attractive beause you had problems before. so!?

by the way, I also know of a few gay peeps with problems, but I'm not saying all of them have had problems. I see what you're saying, but it doesn't count for everyone.

Inferno
08-08-2004, 02:57 PM
I do realize that every "case" or situation is different, so I shouldn't generalize, I've already stated that. But I didn't really say I saw that much wrong with being attracted to people of the same sex because of problems. My first thought was that homosexuality was not natural, that all people are chemically proned to attraction of the opposite sex, and an abnormality would change that; say, a hard childhood or chemical imbalance. (Again more restation(not an actually word, probably) of what I've already tried to explain.)

but to answer your question, I don't see much wrong with finding comfort in someone of the same sex after having problems of the sort. I don't see much wrong with finding comfort in anything, but it isn't the healthiest thing. And I don't want to seem like I'm comparing homosexuality, or any sexuality for that matter, to anything bad and tainted; but drugs are often a comfort mechanism too. So is God/religion. You can find comfort (and attraction) in just about anything given the right variables in a situation, that's just how a lot of people's minds and bodies work.

It definitely seems like there's a lot of repitition now, but I mostly want everyone to see every side of this matter; so that people can form their own beliefs and reasonings, and not just go with what one person tells them.

art
08-09-2004, 03:23 PM
Well, on this I totally agree with you. nice statement, although most people will find it funny that you see religion, drugs and homosexuality as similar, fitting in one catagory.

The past for months I've been feeling increasingly.. careless. if someone feels good being religious or homosexual, that's ok. wanna use drugs? I wouldn't but if you feel like it.. that kind of attitude. so that's why I'm just gonna drop this discussion now..

Inferno
08-15-2004, 05:01 PM
So, has everyone said what they wanted to say about homosexuality?
Is it time to lock this thread? or are there still people who have not cleared the air on their thoughts?
I'm very interested in everyone's perception of homosexuality and matters of the sort.

kirby9058
08-15-2004, 07:59 PM
I'm straight too, but a lot of my good friends are gay. I have no problem with it, and it angers me that gay marrige is outlawed in the US. It also angers me when people don't accept homosexuality... but I guess they have their own opinion. :tongue:

Shael
08-16-2004, 01:59 AM
I'm fine with homosexual people, I view them just like anybody else.

I'm also fine with homophobes. I mean, they're scared of homosexual people and there isn't really anything they can do about it. Think of something you're scared of, perhaps spiders or the dark, and then imagine people hating you for having fear in those things.

What i'm not fine with though, and actually I really really hate, are people who, out of their own free will, make fun, descriminate, etc. against homosexuals. Those people should die =/

I think gay marriage should be legal.

I'm straight, btw =)

Deoxys0003
08-16-2004, 02:36 AM
Okay... well, if we're posting our opinions here... I believe that homosexuality is wrong and that gay marriages should not be legal. :P

Especially if it's against the law, like San Francisco. ::)

Chris
08-16-2004, 05:19 AM
Okay... well, if we're posting our opinions here... I believe that homosexuality is wrong and that gay marriages should not be legal. :P

Especially if it's against the law, like San Francisco. ::)

Why is it wrong if its something they can't change?

JoshE
08-16-2004, 04:22 PM
Okay... well, if we're posting our opinions here... I believe that homosexuality is wrong and that gay marriages should not be legal. :P

Especially if it's against the law, like San Francisco. ::)

Gays getting married should not be against the law. They were born that way and I wish you religious people who hate gays would relize that God is the one who created them this way. If it were in the bible would you hate blacks?

Deoxys0003
08-16-2004, 05:56 PM
To Chris: It's a religious standpoint. I'm going to dislike gays because it's in the Bible. Another thing... how do you know they can't change it? That seems like an opinion to me.

Joshe: Why should it not be against the law? Howcome you're right and the law is wrong? I need to know why if we're going to discuss this...

I think my reply to the bit about God creating them this way would be offensive, so I'll just stay away from that.

And yes, if it were in the Bible, I would hate blacks. However, it is said to love your neighbor as yourself, therefore I treat blacks the same as any other guy.

Seven
08-16-2004, 06:41 PM
Ok, after that final paragraph, you don't seriously expect people to take you serisous, do you? Oh, man, you're an ignorant sheep who'd probably commit suicide if the Bible said so. Think for yourself, man! Don't just do what a book tells you to do, think what a book wants you to think! ARGH! It's people like you that upset me most, you're the kind of....

Wait...
Calm down, Seven...
This boy is allowed to believe whatever he wants to believe...
Don't go on a rage...just calmly respond to his post...

To Chris: It's a religious standpoint. I'm going to dislike gays because it's in the Bible. Another thing... how do you know they can't change it? That seems like an opinion to me.

Well, to a straight people, it can never be proven that you can't change it. You can't change or decide who you fall in love with either, neither can gay people. So gah, that's the best prove you're gonna get.


Joshe: Why should it not be against the law? Howcome you're right and the law is wrong? I need to know why if we're going to discuss this...

The only reason it would be wrong is cus of what the bible says, and there's a little thing called "seperation of church and state", so there you have it.
Why SHOULD it be against the law? Nobody's hurt by a gaymarriage, and it concerns two CONSENTING ADULTS. SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.


I think my reply to the bit about God creating them this way would be offensive, so I'll just stay away from that.

I'm sure it would be dumb (IMO) anyway, so you're wise not to bother with it :). Though I bet it's some lame-ass theory about the devil, or some sin-thing, w/e =X.


And yes, if it were in the Bible, I would hate blacks. However, it is said to love your neighbor as yourself, therefore I treat blacks the same as any other guy.

LMAO. XD Serisouly XD. omg XD Dude, the way you treat the bible, and your religion is just plain wrong. Don't you have a mind of your own?
Just interested: do you treat gays same as any other guy?

I have nothing against christianity, serisouly, I don't, but the way you believe....man... and people wonder what is wrong with the world today...*sigh*

Inferno
08-17-2004, 09:59 PM
Don't you hate it when people make you repeat yourself?

But Deoxy, what you've said and asked is almost embarassing. I know what I say is a lot of times offensive and it upsets people, but I don't do it on purpose. It's my word selection (amongst other things) that seems to bother people.

But to re-state, people may not be able to pick who they fall in love with (and in my opinion probably don't have total control over it anyway), but the most accessable person that's there during a time of need would probably be the most rational person that you would fall in love with. And I don't want to get into "hardships and hard times" leading to "consoling from another person" again. So, I'll try not to.

The Bible is not as cut and dry as many would like. It doesn't spell out for you every decision you should make. It instills in you beliefs and morals and virtues, which you can put forth in your life and decisions you need to make. But your Bible is not a manual, and shouldn't be treated as one. No two people will have the same views on every subject, especially religion. And if they do, then it kinda becomes a cult and you're practically brainwashed. When you don't think on your own, it takes away from your real life. And at one point or another you will probably have to start living a real life, and that transition is very hard to make if you use an unrealistic guideline to live by.

VenusaurTrainer
08-18-2004, 03:41 AM
Nobody's hurt by a gaymarriage, and it concerns two CONSENTING ADULTS. SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.


Let me give my 2 cents. When I see to gay people holding hands or kissing it makes me want to gag. Its so sick, gay marriages should be illegal. I fully agree with Deoxys on this.

Seven
08-18-2004, 10:38 AM
Let me give my 2 cents. When I see to gay people holding hands or kissing it makes me want to gag. Its so sick, gay marriages should be illegal. I fully agree with Deoxys on this.

Just cus you think it's sick, it should be illegal? =/. Personally, I think it's gross to see old people kiss, but gah, doesn't mean it should be illegal =X.


What could possbily be sick about two guys holding hands =S. Sure, I get why you think kissing is gross (though I don't agree >_>), but gah, holding hands? Come on!

Oh, and just FYI, even if you ban gaymarriages, that doesn't mean gays won't kiss and hold hands in the streets anymore. You should ban homosexuality as a whole, if ya don't want to see it anymore.

JoshE
08-18-2004, 01:14 PM
Let me give my 2 cents. When I see to gay people holding hands or kissing it makes me want to gag. Its so sick, gay marriages should be illegal. I fully agree with Deoxys on this.

Sorry VT but the whole world is not based around you. 10% of the worlds population is gay now they say. Thats a lot and they should have rights also!

Agent Orange
08-18-2004, 01:27 PM
I have nothing against christianity, serisouly, I don't, but the way you believe....man... and people wonder what is wrong with the world today...*sigh*

Seven, you say you have nothing agenst Christianity, then you blast us by saying we are why the world is messed up, nice contradiction.

I eleive that being gay is wrong religously, choice or not, stong willpower can mostly get yourself straight. But Ido not think it should be agenst the law, because the Chruch and State are supposed to be seperated. It seems people have forgotton that tho, cause there is banning and crap everywhere.

Seven
08-18-2004, 03:24 PM
Seven, you say you have nothing agenst Christianity, then you blast us by saying we are why the world is messed up, nice contradiction.


I think you kinda misunderstood =X. I really don't have anything against christianity, hell, two of my closest friends are hardcore christians.
I have something against certain ways of believing, like the one Deoxys has. Hence the words "but the way you believe....man...".
He sees everything in the Bible as an absolute truth, not thinking one second for himself about it. That's what's ruining the world IMO, people who are too stupid to think uptheir own opinion, so they just take it from a book.

Bible = good
Christianity = good
For that matter, religion = good
Mindlessly doing everythin said in the Bible, or any other book that tells you how to live = WRONG, yes, with capital letters.

Believing that way reminds me of 'Befehl ist Befehl' =X

JoshE
08-18-2004, 09:09 PM
choice or not, stong willpower can mostly get yourself straight.

Strong will power can mostly get you straight? How can you mostly be straight? :rolleyes: I don't buy that if you really want to be straight you can be it if your gay. They have no choice in that matter. I did not have choice that I was African American when I was born and gay people have no choice at all if they are Gay or not. They should have rights the same as any human being. Because they are Human beings and should be treated fairly. If the bible told you that black people were less superior to you would you become rascist? Do you think these people WANT to be Gay? Do you think these people WANT to be treated as second class citizens? I really find it amazing how people can be so cruel and not give another person the rights they deserve as Human beings. It actually sickens me. :susp:

Inferno
08-18-2004, 09:51 PM
Well, some people do want to be gay. They're craving the attention, and when they enter a room and people know they're gay, then they get attention mixed with many other things. And I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that there are sick people that think if they act a certain way, say certain things, live a certain life, then they will get the attention that they want and think they deserve.
That's not to say that all homosexuals crave attention, or to even say many homosexuals crave attention. But there are people who want the "benefits" they get from being gay. that all reaches back to a childhood where they didn't receive enough attention, or enjoyed the attention they got so much they wanted to keep receiving it as an adult. Some people call these homosexuals names and bash them for being loud, obnoxious, and very very open with their homsexuality. I don't respect this. I don't really enjoy that many public displays of affection anyway. I dislike seeing a guy and a girl kiss as much as I dislike seeing a girl and a girl kiss, or guy and a guy kiss. I wouldn't like to hear someone boast of their heterosexuality, nor would I like to hear people talk about their homsexuality. Your sexual preference really shouldn't be a thing that people know because they met you one time.

And I fear that many people would be racist if the bible said to be. Many people are racist rather the bible says to be or not. So that would just give some people a better reason to be more open about it. But hating people because the bible says homosexuality is wrong, is dumb. If you think of homosexuality as a preference, then it could be compared to the type of shirts you wear. So if the bible said to hate those who wear collared shirts, and you met a perfectly good person, that wore a polo shirt... would you dislike them? Condemn them for their taste in upperbody wear?

Agent Orange
08-18-2004, 09:59 PM
Strong will power can mostly get you straight? How can you mostly be straight? :rolleyes: I don't buy that if you really want to be straight you can be it if your gay. They have no choice in that matter. I did not have choice that I was African American when I was born and gay people have no choice at all if they are Gay or not. They should have rights the same as any human being. Because they are Human beings and should be treated fairly. If the bible told you that black people were less superior to you would you become rascist? Do you think these people WANT to be Gay? Do you think these people WANT to be treated as second class citizens? I really find it amazing how people can be so cruel and not give another person the rights they deserve as Human beings. It actually sickens me. :susp:

Man, I said they should get their rights way before this, they should be treated as everyday people, all people are equal, but from a religous standpoint, gays are breaking the laws of christianity. But if your gay, and your not Cristian, then they dont care. Give them rights, but a Gay man is not going to be a preist. And by Mostly, I meant most of the time. Also, if God told me to jump off a cliff, I would. call it dumb, call it being a sheep, call it whatever the hell you please, I am just following my Religion.

Seven
08-18-2004, 10:20 PM
Man, I said they should get their rights way before this, they should be treated as everyday people, all people are equal, but from a religous standpoint, gays are breaking the laws of christianity. But if your gay, and your not Cristian, then they dont care. Give them rights, but a Gay man is not going to be a preist. And by Mostly, I meant most of the time. Also, if God told me to jump off a cliff, I would. call it dumb, call it being a sheep, call it whatever the hell you please, I am just following my Religion.

DP, I have to say: I really respect the way you believe =). You're my type of christian so to speak =b.
I'll tell ya this, if I would have believed in God, and he would tell me personally that I should jump of a cliff, I probably would. But I would never ever jump off a cliff, or hate people (like deoxys) just cus the Bible (no personal contact) says so...
You've got to put something of yourself in your religion, your own views and thoughts. I see that you do that, unlike some other people here...:rolleyes:

kirby9058
08-18-2004, 11:41 PM
Yeah, what I know some gay people who are good every day christians. I don't understand why not having an attraction to the opposite sex is breaking any religous rules, doesn't make sence to me. I'm a christian, I'm a strong believer in god too. But I still have no problem with gays being christian, I would actually rather them be christian then have no religion, because religion is somehting very important to me, and I think it hsould be a part of everbody's life, including gays. Just my thoughts...

Agent Orange
08-18-2004, 11:48 PM
Well, it does state in the bible that a MAn should not lay with a man as he would a women. Also, reproducting is strictly for reproduction, so people who commit Adualtery and use prostitutes are out of line as well.

(I am using these words in the most un offensive way I can, please do not ban me or anything, I am trying to state a point, and it touches on some delicate subjects, sorry.)

JoshE
08-19-2004, 03:04 AM
My Uncle is Gay and he knows he does not need to listen to people who say he should not get just as good rights than another man. He is a proud man and will tell people that there is nothing worng with him. He is a human being who is Gay. That is the way he was born and that is the way God intended him to be he told me. They don't crave attention. They want people to know that they feel there is nothing wrong with being gay. Before anyone speaks about how Gay people feel maybe you should talk to one and understand him/her. People are speaking very ignorant when they have nothing to back up what they say.

The bible was also made by people. Not by God. It is Gods Teachings but I am sure that everything in the bible does not come from God itself.

Inferno
08-19-2004, 04:50 AM
I just want to say that all my statements come from experiences with people who are homosexual, bisexual, sexually curious, heterosexual, and experiences with everyone I know. I woudl never think of speaking about a subject that I had no idea about. I don't know everything, and on the broadscale of things I don't know much at all. But I do have friends and family who are homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, etc. So, JoshE is right to say that no one should speak out of ignorance.

And to categorize one wide/broad group as "they" should not be done in this thread. I shouldn't do it, no one should.

If God(s) himself/herself/themselves told me to jump off a cliff I'm pretty positive I would.

You can't pick who you fall in love with, that's been said over and over. But do you only fall in love once in your life?
I strongly believe that love forms from the situations and whatnot. So, depending on who you place yourself around during the time that you may need love from another person, you can have a lot of control over atleast one variable of the equation.

Shael
08-19-2004, 06:49 AM
DP, I have to say: I really respect the way you believe =). You're my type of christian so to speak =b.
I'll tell ya this, if I would have believed in God, and he would tell me personally that I should jump of a cliff, I probably would. But I would never ever jump off a cliff, or hate people (like deoxys) just cus the Bible (no personal contact) says so...
You've got to put something of yourself in your religion, your own views and thoughts. I see that you do that, unlike some other people here...:rolleyes:

I agree, it's like that story where God told the guy to sacrifice his son just to test him, and at the very last second told him to stop and kill a goat (I think) instead

however the Bible is not a contract. It's God's words. I get your point, but I just had to point that out =P

Agent Orange
08-19-2004, 01:28 PM
Right, Thats what I was thinking of when I said that.

Deoxys0003
08-25-2004, 04:24 PM
Mindlessly doing everythin said in the Bible, or any other book that tells you how to live = WRONG, yes, with capital letters.


I consider the Bible to be God's Word. I believe that God is perfect, so I read it and obey it. I have my own thoughts and opinions, but when it comes to what is said in the Bible, I follow it.

Champion Lance
08-25-2004, 07:14 PM
I consider the Bible to be God's Word. I believe that God is perfect, so I read it and obey it. I have my own thoughts and opinions, but when it comes to what is said in the Bible, I follow it.

A Human wrote the Bible. Not God. It is Gods Teachings but I would be willing to bet that God does not intend to have you follow it mindlessly.

Deoxys0003
08-26-2004, 03:31 PM
A Human wrote the Bible. Not God. It is Gods Teachings but I would be willing to bet that God does not intend to have you follow it mindlessly.

The people who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. They were basically told what to write.

How can I possibly follow God's Word mindlessly? Again, I have my own opinions about certain issues, but when it comes to what is said in the Bible, I follow it.

Anyway, we should get back to the topic...

Max.Exe
05-01-2005, 08:58 AM
Firstly...I am very sorry for what I'm posting. I'm basically bumping up a topic that everyone is over and done with. This has happened before (Not by me of course) where somebody revived a topic of large debate like this with a pretty stupid reply.

Well this is not a stupid reply.

I'm Gay. Some people don't seem to know how this works...And saying that "You're so young how can you know" means nothing. I found out when I was about 12. And when I did, everything previously in my life added up. It was pretty easy to figure out what was up with me.

Then the self conflict came in. Heh. What an idiot I was. I wanted to be normal, straight, and get married to a girl and have kids. I lied to myself and everyone else for so long. And it was stupid. Back then I was also more obsessed with being "Cool" and less of being myself.

I used to wish with all my heart to be like everyone else.

Then I started to realise that being "Cool" wasn't everything. And it led on from there. Please excuse me if I sound sexist,but I found girls really really REALLY annoying. And I realised that I didn't have to put up with it because,well,I had no real intrest in them anyway.

Obviously if I was straight I would of kept with girls,because duh,I'd be attracted to them. But the thing is,I'm not.

So whats that? You mean...After all that time,I'm still Gay? Gasp. Maybe I didn't try hard enough? Oho. I did.

But now I'm very happy with who I am. In fact I'm open about it. Not to my family though, they'd completeley understand buuuut they'd be very paranoid about the idea of my getting a BoyFriend or something. And I'd hate that.

There. Thats my story. I'd also like to say that I don't live in the Us and I have no plan to. So I won't go and ruin your precious nation for you. In fact I never want to get married. Ever. Because my views on Christianity are...Complicated. I believe in God but...Well. Nevermind.

You dexoy's stated that we should get back on topic. And I just have. Maybe you weren't talking to me, but such an issue involves me therefor I think I should give my opinion on the whole thing.

*The End.*

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 09:22 AM
im not gay or bi or lesbian im metrosexual!! does anybody knows what it means!!it means i act gay and talk gay but i am not gay lol!!i am straight and am happily in love with with kristie!!

Max.Exe
05-01-2005, 09:26 AM
Lol okay. Good for you. Thats new to me.

That reminds me...I'm probably the most UnGay person ever. You don't have to like the colour pink and act really feminine to be Gay. Some people fail to understand that -_-;;

No I do not want to bang my friends either. Well...Maybe 1. But I'm allowed to like people right?

(Worst new member introduction ever)

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:09 AM
Meh IM gay and have no problems about it lol and I obviously dont think that its bad :P

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 11:12 AM
']Meh IM gay and have no problems about it lol and I obviously dont think that its bad :P
good for you!! i respectyou fo saying it! what does it feel like??

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:15 AM
good for you!! i respect you for saying it! what does it feel like??
what do you mena what does it feel like?

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 11:19 AM
what does it feel like to be gay!!
i have nothing against them just want to know what they feel and how it feels so i can understand them better!!

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:24 AM
eh duno lol I gusse normal, I mean I dont tell anyone out side of here and NB because of the ridcule I could/will get and I just dont want to put up with that. The only thing different is that you peeps like chics and we like dudes :oops: does that answer your question?

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 11:27 AM
yea kind off!! :oops: :oops: soory for asking must be inbarasing!!

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:28 AM
dont worry I wonder how straits can like some of the things that they like lol

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 11:34 AM
:biggrin: what you mean!! its just the same as gay people just they like it behind and men lol only joking!! :oops: :oops: okay bad joke :oops:

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:35 AM
:biggrin: what you mean!! its just the same as gay people just they like it behind and men lol only joking!! :oops: :oops: okay bad joke :oops:
what else are we supposed to do? Get a sex change? Drag freaks me out and so does trans genderd peeps

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 11:44 AM
yea me too!! try watching plastic surgery live!! a sex change ewww nasty sh*t

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 11:47 AM
yea me too!! try watching plastic surgery live!! a sex change ewww nasty sh*t
lol well I dont want to spam this topic up anymore so to answer this topics question again yes im gay and if anyone has question like jaffa did just ask we dont care about telling you peeps this stuff

Sudo
05-01-2005, 12:02 PM
Im not gay myself but i have nothing against them! I think they are equal to everyone else and i hate homophobia as much as i hate racism and sexism!

Zenaku
05-01-2005, 12:53 PM
Well, personally, I hate people who have the opinion "Gays choose to be gay", when that's not really the case; homosexuals choose to be homosexual no more than heterosexuals choose to be heterosexual.

When people are so blind to the truth like that, it truly annoys me. The illusion of "love" is an effect caused by hormones in the body, and humans have no control over when the hormones react; they either react when thinking of a guy, or when thinking of a girl.

Of course, someone I've talked to recently said that even if that happened to him, he would refuse his feelings and be straight, mostly due to his Christian views. I'm sure anyone who would even try to do such a thing would soon become very unhappy.

And no, I'm not homosexual to my knowledge.

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 01:09 PM
Well, personally, I hate people who have the opinion "Gays choose to be gay", when that's not really the case; homosexuals choose to be homosexual no more than heterosexuals choose to be heterosexual.

When people are so blind to the truth like that, it truly annoys me. The illusion of "love" is an effect caused by hormones in the body, and humans have no control over when the hormones react; they either react when thinking of a guy, or when thinking of a girl.

Of course, someone I've talked to recently said that even if that happened to him, he would refuse his feelings and be straight, mostly due to his Christian views. I'm sure anyone who would even try to do such a thing would soon become very unhappy.

And no, I'm not homosexual to my knowledge.

Thats very wise of you to know that I tried to change it at frist too :/ dosent work lol

~* Esper *~
05-01-2005, 04:52 PM
That is soo true Zenaku. Many pople argue that men and woman who are gay and lesbian have chosen that path for themselves. But, that's impossible. Once we come of age where we realize what the difference is, there is no way we would want to be outsiders when there is soo much discrimination and prejudice against those who don't conform to the "norm" of society. To me, normal is in the eye of the beholder, it's an interpretation. It's a biased, unrealistic generalization, by complete and total baffoons.

jaffa_G
05-01-2005, 05:04 PM
That is soo true Zenaku. Many pople argue that men and woman who are gay and lesbian have chosen that path for themselves. But, that's impossible. Once we come of age where we realize what the difference is, there is no way we would want to be outsiders when there is soo much discrimination and prejudice against those who don't conform to the "norm" of society. To me, normal is in the eye of the beholder, it's an interpretation. It's a biased, unrealistic generalization, by complete and total baffoons.

you cant say what is normal!! if you were normal i would be gald to bewierd lolz only joking just using that as and example lol no one knows what normal is so no one can judge gay or lesbian people!!
because the people who do dont know what normal is anyways!!

~* Esper *~
05-01-2005, 05:30 PM
Jaffa, that's exactly what I just said, you just reiterated my statement.

manectrics_shockwave
05-01-2005, 06:37 PM
I'm 100% staright and I dont have a problem with homosexuals unless they start flirting with me then I might punch them in the face.

GrimReaper[SRA]
05-01-2005, 08:11 PM
ooooo your so cute when you get mad..........jk lol I would never flirt with someone that is not gay because of the reaction id get

Zenaku
05-01-2005, 08:47 PM
lol I wouldn't really care if a guy started flirting with me. If you're straight, it's no different than a girl you don't like flirting with you, after all. Just say no; hit them and you might be classed homophobic, whether you're nice to them normally or not.

Max.Exe
05-02-2005, 04:27 AM
...Wow. Well everything seems to be going fine so far ^^. I think I'm done saying what I need to say here.

Rukario
05-02-2005, 07:58 PM
lol I wouldn't really care if a guy started flirting with me. If you're straight, it's no different than a girl you don't like flirting with you, after all. Just say no; hit them and you might be classed homophobic, whether you're nice to them normally or not.
Actually, I don't have any problems with them, but if they start to harassing me, I will. I'm not homophobic, yet. :oops:

Zuzuzu
06-21-2005, 12:00 AM
Well, I love homosexuals!
They are the ultimate rebels, because htey dont care.
I love that!

PS. I'm bi.

Smurf
06-21-2005, 12:29 AM
Pointless rambling Ierdar does not care to read.



Please don't revive topics over a month old. Unlike most forums, here at PokemonElite2000 we just make a new one if the old one is about a month old. =P

Btw, Zuzuzu...you are a twit. >_>