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Dragon_Seeker
08-12-2006, 12:56 AM
This is not a team. It is a work of art.

Salamence (F) @ Leftovers ** Nazgul
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Hi my name is Nazgul. If I have 90% health lategame and get passed a swords dance, odds are you're dead. Isn't that cool? Seriously. This bastard is likely to sweep you, your family and your best friend lategame with Celebi. 274 speed beats Smeargle. It's weird, but Smeargle owns this team otherwise so I need my speed.

Snorlax (F) @ Leftovers ** Hulk Hogan
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 96 Atk / 56 Def / 16 SAtk / 136 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Return
- Fire Blast

Starlax go. Bleep and naysayers can bite me; Starlax has the supreme power of evil. Actually, I think 0ma made this set and called it 0malax but semantics are dumb. Anyways... it's so freaking fun it's awesome. Fire Blast for Gengar and Skarmory, Focus Punch makes Tyranitar and others dead. I'm almost thinking of Selfdestruct somewhere but I can't decide where. Maybe I'll try Counter/Selfdestruct/Return/Shadow Ball for kicks one of these days.

Magneton @ Leftovers ** Magneto
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Reflect
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic

Buzz off Skarmory. You're not wanted.

Regirock @ Leftovers ** boulderdash
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 76 Def / 28 Spd / 16 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Focus Punch
- Explosion
- Rock Slide

Might replace with Metagross (and in doing that replace Sala with Weezing for a hazer and replacement curselax counter) but I love Regirock too much to stop using it... for now. SD Meteor Mash seems kind of hot. Focus Punch for Flygon/Skarmory/Pokemon. Normal resist and imo best curselax counter EVAR. I might try Earthquake though because Jirachi oppresses this.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** Queen of PKMN
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 32 Atk / 120 Def / 116 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

I wanted to have "Flaming Queen of PKMN" because it's purple, fat and very male but it wouldn't fit in the little box. Anyways. Its strategic value is mainly rock resist and sleep absorber. It *can* benefit ever so slightly from Celebi dances but meh. If I wanted to abuse Celebi I'd need Rock Slide and Curse on this bastard and that would mean I'd have problems with a gigantic trampling dinosaur due to Swampert's lack of recovery. I find no issues with RestTalkpert right now and don't plan to change him. He's one of the few solid people here I don't think I'm going to ever change. Well, him and Celebi anyways.

Celebi @ Leftovers ** The Candy Tree
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 112 Def / 32 Spd / 96 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass

It feeds on children. Shadow Ball for other Celebis and Jirachis who think they're special because they have Calm Mind. Survives duggy hp bugger with 100 Hp to spare on average, meaning Celebi has to have been beaten up quite badly for Duggy to actually kill it.

Echo
08-12-2006, 11:40 AM
For Snorlax, maybe ditch Focus Punch sor Selfdestruct, because Earthquake should already hurt Tyranitar.

A Cursepert might want to hurt this team if it doesn't get KO'd by Maggy's HP Grass, or if Maggy is already dead. But this isn't realyl something you should be threatened of.

The sad thing about SD Celebi is that Weezing walls it completely, being also able to deal SE damage, Haze away your boosts and WoW you and probably WoW the recipient of the SD's. So yes, Metagross over Regirock would sound reasonable, because then you can predict an incoming Sludge Bomb and BP to Metagross and then KO the Weezing with a SD'd attack. With Regirock, you wouldn't be able to do this, because Weezing outruns Regirock. Sure, Regirock is a hell lot of a cooler team member, but I can see Metagross working better.

Solid team nonetheless.

David Um
08-12-2006, 12:03 PM
Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Just use the standard. Max attack and speed.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 96 Atk / 56 Def / 16 SAtk / 136 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Return
- Fire Blast

Magneton @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Reflect/thunder wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- substitute
Toxic is lol. substitute is better, see. You want to decide on reflect and thunder wave because maggy's speed is average at best.

Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 76 Def / 28 Spd / 16 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Focus Punch
- Explosion
- Rock Slide
REPLACE WITH METAGROSS, NOW!

[Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 216HP/64 att/124 def/44 speed/62 sp.def
Impish or careful Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass

Metagross @ choice band
Trait:clear body
EVs-/208 att/100 def/78 sp.att/124 sp.def
brave nature
-explosion
-meteor mash
-earthquake
-rock slide or HP fire
HP flying can surprise the hell out of skarmory and fortress coming and roaring you.

pokeplayer66
08-12-2006, 04:02 PM
reflect is a good idea for when duggy switches in...and regirock i would try

Rock Slide
Curse
EQ
Kaboom/Rest/Focus Punch

Dragon_Seeker
08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
Salamence Just use the standard. Max attack and speed.
Umm, no. Sala is my fighting resist, meaning I actually need it to take more than 2 hits in its overall lifetime. Max speed is meh. I already outrun everything after 1 Dragon Dance and it's not like I want to tie with enemy CBmences anyways.

Toxic is lol. substitute is better, see. You want to decide on reflect and thunder wave because maggy's speed is average at best.
Toxic is hawt, please learn what you're talking about considering everyone's switching to Snorlax as supreme special wall and well over half of them use Thick Fat. Substitute is meh. I guess Substitute *could* work if I could ever get one setup against Metagross or something but Maggy's HP is crap and he's not going to keep a Substitute up against anything; even a 4x resisting move like HP Fly or whatever. And seeing how he's ridiculously easy to wall... no.

Reflect helps a ton for letting 'Mence and Celebi setup on stalk Snorlax and whatnot.

REPLACE WITH METAGROSS, NOW!
I'm planning on it but that makes me open to Curselax, which incindentally sucks. I'd have to thereby replace 'Mence with Weezing to keep 'Lax out of my hair and I kind of like Sala atm.

A Cursepert might want to hurt this team if it doesn't get KO'd by Maggy's HP Grass, or if Maggy is already dead.
I missed how Cursepert does anything to Celebi. But yes, you're right. Pokemon sweeps team if team's counters are all dead.

Elidibs
08-12-2006, 11:33 PM
will-o-wisp moltres can give this team problems, as well as the rare hp ice blaziken, but neither of them is common, so i guess you're safe

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 03:53 AM
will-o-wisp moltres can give this team problems, as well as the rare hp ice blaziken, but neither of them is common, so i guess you're safe
Moltres is becoming a pest tbh. I may switch to RestTalk Lax to counter it and switch Swampert's moveset so it gets Curse and either Hydro Pump or Rock Slide.

Blaziken, however, is pimp-slapped very hard by Swampert and Swampert tends to have a long, fruitful life.

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 05:05 AM
you don't exactly need sleep talk on lax. rest is enough, as moltres does **** to lax, even with sunny day up

bleep
08-13-2006, 07:43 AM
CMCUNE GO USE SWEEP.

The only thing on your team that can touch Suicune is Magneton, but that isn't durable at all. It takes huge damage from surfs which means it can't switch in. besides that though, pretty solid. before i saw magneton i was going to bring up spikes but looks like you have that taken care of.

*erm* if you had curselax, suicune wouldn't be a problem :)

edit: david um, dragonseeker is better than you, i'd think she'd know standard movesets.

David Um
08-13-2006, 09:06 AM
edit: david um, dragonseeker is better than you, i'd think she'd know standard movesets.

The standard movesets are in smogon, retard.

edit: I question focus punch on snorlax. if you want to focus punch, i suggest using heracross or tyranitar because snorlax is better off as a curser or sleep talker.

Snorlax@leftovers
sassy nature
EVs-88 HP/132 att/120 def/170 sp.def
-return
-curse
-earthquake
-fire blast or rest

Echo
08-13-2006, 11:18 AM
The standard movesets are in smogon, retard.

edit: I question focus punch on snorlax. if you want to focus punch, i suggest using heracross or tyranitar because snorlax is better off as a curser or sleep talker.

Snorlax@leftovers
sassy nature
EVs-88 HP/132 att/120 def/170 sp.def
-return
-curse
-earthquake
-fire blast or rest

well, retard, the Smogon movesets are already outdated, that's why they're updating them at the moment.

A Cursepert might want to hurt this team if it doesn't get KO'd by Maggy's HP Grass, or if Maggy is already dead.

Anyways, yes, it is never a valid argument to say that something hurts the team if the counter is dead, so I can take that back.

Also, I can see a problem with some versions of Boah, as outdated as it is. It can easily set up on your Celebi and SE almost every member of your team, depending on the moves. If it packs Sub/Rock Slide/Focus Punch/Crunch, then Swampert if your best bet, but it will still take some nice damage from a Focus Punch. If the it's the standard Boah, Salamence can wall it to an extent, depending how much damage T-bolt or Crunch does to it.

Agreeing on a CM Suicune sweep, because no Hazer or Phazer. The lack of Phazer also causes this team to be outrun by a BP Team. As well as other BPers.

David Um
08-13-2006, 04:13 PM
well, retard, the Smogon movesets are already outdated, that's why they're updating them at the moment.

Anyways, yes, it is never a valid argument to say that something hurts the team if the counter is dead, so I can take that back.

Also, I can see a problem with some versions of Boah, as outdated as it is. It can easily set up on your Celebi and SE almost every member of your team, depending on the moves. If it packs Sub/Rock Slide/Focus Punch/Crunch, then Swampert if your best bet, but it will still take some nice damage from a Focus Punch. If the it's the standard Boah, Salamence can wall it to an extent, depending how much damage T-bolt or Crunch does to it.

Agreeing on a CM Suicune sweep, because no Hazer or Phazer. The lack of Phazer also causes this team to be outrun by a BP Team. As well as other BPers.

wait, doesn't Tyraniboah usually carry ice beam, which can OHKO salamence?

and the reason I called bleep a retard is not of your concern.

Nykwana Wombosi
08-13-2006, 04:53 PM
wait, doesn't Tyraniboah usually carry ice beam, which can OHKO salamence?

Yes, the i in Tyraniboah is actually an abbreviation of Ice Beam, so Boah usually carries Ice Beam indeed. :rolleyes:

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 06:30 PM
Also, I can see a problem with some versions of Boah, as outdated as it is. It can easily set up on your Celebi and SE almost every member of your team, depending on the moves. If it packs Sub/Rock Slide/Focus Punch/Crunch, then Swampert if your best bet, but it will still take some nice damage from a Focus Punch. If the it's the standard Boah, Salamence can wall it to an extent, depending how much damage T-bolt or Crunch does to it.
'Pert takes most Boahs fine. And Sala can certainly scare them off. Once again, I'm thinking I should really try that Metagross over Regirock but then I'd need to replace 'Mence with a Snorlax counter. Probably Weezing. And I kind of like 'Mence atm.

Agreeing on a CM Suicune sweep, because no Hazer or Phazer. The lack of Phazer also causes this team to be outrun by a BP Team. As well as other BPers.
I don't know why but I can honestly say that I haven't had problems with BP teams. Usually Regirock Explodes and kills something and from there the team crumbles apart. Magneton Toxic also usually makes something unhappy if Maggy gets stuck. If Celebi gets stuck in the ring, SD ---> Sala usually beats it.

Finally, @ Bleeep, I haven't seen a CMcune in about 4 months. That is not an exaggeration. I save a bunch of my logs on NB and can honestly say that I haven't seen CMcune in forever. However, I also realize that's not really a valid argument to use against 'Cune so I'm thinking Selfdestruct on 'Lax to maybe scare it off... kind of. See, my issue with 'Cune is that I don't want this team to be stally but the things that scare 'Cune the most are stallers like Ludicolo and the gay leech seed Celebi. I might try Leech Seed over Shadow Ball, maybe, but Celebi is also my Raikou, Celebi and Jirachi counter and by dropping Shadow Ball I lose all of that.

At this point, I'm STRONGLY considering Selfdestruct over Focus Punch... I'm finding I'm using Focus Punch mostly for enemy 'Laxen so Selfdestruct not only beats the crap out of them but also gives me something to scare 'Cune with. But that also means no Rest on 'Lax (Rest + Explode = counter productive). In any case, 'Mence usually scares Moltres off if it's got HP Grass and if it's HP Ice variant then Regirock/Swampert can usually make it go away.

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 07:22 PM
wait, doesn't Tyraniboah usually carry ice beam, which can OHKO salamence?

and the reason I called bleep a retard is not of your concern.
But I like bleep. :neutral: He's the supreme overlord of a site dedicated to taking over the world. How can you NOT like him? Sure, he's kind of emo, but still...

We all grew to love me and not only am I emo, I'm also a witch.

And if Boah has Ice Beam then it has no STAB move to hit my 'Pert with and that also means Celebi can dance in its face and piss on its children because Ice Beam 3HKOs iirc. If I'm wrong, then although I'm a sad panda it doesn't change the fact that 'Boah can't beat the Flaming Queen of Pokemon.

Echo
08-14-2006, 12:03 AM
wait, doesn't Tyraniboah usually carry ice beam, which can OHKO salamence?

and the reason I called bleep a retard is not of your concern.

No, a standard Boah does not carry Ice Beam.

and I don't really give a damn why you called him a retard, but by calling him a retard, you make yourself look like an idiot.

but hey, I'm not here to argue over anything but maybe Pokemon...

Lordofgames
08-14-2006, 05:09 PM
meh, CBHera can rape your team

celebi
08-14-2006, 05:24 PM
No, a standard Boah does not carry Ice Beam.

and I don't really give a damn why you called him a retard, but by calling him a retard, you make yourself look like an idiot.

but hey, I'm not here to argue over anything but maybe Pokemon...

T-Boah has been found useless and only a few uses it nowadays.I see lots of sub punchers these days.

Echo
08-14-2006, 05:30 PM
T-Boah has been found useless and only a few uses it nowadays.I see lots of sub punchers these days.

Also, I can see a problem with some versions of Boah, as outdated as it is.

Please, celebi, read the thread (and the part of my post above) before trying to post something relevantly clever. Though, I'm a tad dubious that you could actually post something almost intelligent...

You say you see a lot of Subpunchers nowadays? I've been seeing less of them. As Gengar usually carries Destiny Bond or Hypnosis over Sub, people rely more on CB Focus Punchers or they can predict, so they won't waste a moveslot on Substitute.

celebi
08-14-2006, 05:34 PM
Please, celebi, read the thread (and the part of my post above) before trying to post something relevantly clever. Though, I'm a tad dubious that you could actually post something almost intelligent...

You say you see a lot of Subpunchers nowadays? I've been seeing less of them. As Gengar usually carries Destiny Bond or Hypnosis over Sub, people rely more on CB Focus Punchers or they can predict, so they won't waste a moveslot on Substitute.

That's also correct.Sub is out for now I guess. But i like both sub and destiny bond in a Gengar.
Well you are right I didn't read the threads above:hungry:

Dragon_Seeker
08-14-2006, 07:43 PM
meh, CBHera can rape your team
Wait. How does Heracross get past a Salamence with Intimidate and HP EVs, exactly?

Lordofgames
08-15-2006, 01:38 AM
uh...Salamence is your starter, it would be probably at 50-60% when it faces Heracross late game. If Rock Slide can give about 54-64% on the predicted switch then Salamence would be in trouble. When a CBHera is in the battle and has seen a Salamence in the team before, any good player would always predict a Salamence's entry, and uses Rock Slide. Not to mention that Heracross is FASTER than your Salamence

Elidibs
08-15-2006, 02:29 AM
Not to mention that Heracross is FASTER than your Salamence

adamant cross has 269 max Spd, his mence has 274 Spd. Saying that jolly cross is faster is a poor excuse, as jolly cross sucks and should never be used

also, salamence is enough to stop hera like 90% of the time, otherwise, everyone would have a hera weak unless you've got weezing

Lordofgames
08-15-2006, 02:32 AM
uh...Jolly Hera is the standard.

Elidibs
08-15-2006, 02:37 AM
it isn't

264 is needed for reversal

any other sets go with 249-265 to beat certain things, and going any further with speed is useless, as you lose a lot of power, and you can't hurt skarm/mence/gengar/etc

Lordofgames
08-15-2006, 02:40 AM
Standard is 286 speed.

If CBHeracross is Adamant, it would give a dent of 60-70% (DCal) to Salamence. Now what answer do you have to that. NOBODY runs 249 speed on Hera. *period*


Smogon: "At least 264 speed for Reversal variants, but 295 speed recommended for other crosses."

Other crosses include CBHera

Dragon_Seeker
08-15-2006, 04:51 AM
Standard is Adamant iirc. 'Mence usually outruns Heracross and by usually I mean always unless they've had a Salac.

Echo
08-15-2006, 01:02 PM
Jolly used to be quite the standard, but that's mainly when Speed was more important. I think most standard Pokemon have less Speed nowadays.

I use Adamant myself at least.

Lordofgames
08-15-2006, 04:13 PM
OK I run adamant too, but I thought Jolly was the standard but w/e.

My point is doing ~65% damage on the switch is a lot and is going to hurt you.