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Elidibs
08-12-2006, 11:18 PM
NB team that has been working awesomely so far. If you're new to nb, or don't what you're talking about, please don't rate


http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori094.png
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers ** Byblos
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Hypnosis
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt

owns hard

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori245.png
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Midgar Swarm
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 8 Spd / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Surf

Cm is boring and cune is generally met up with a safe counter, anyway. This set allows me to counter tyranitar, metagross and salamence a lot better than other waters

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori378.png
Regice @ Leftovers ** Serpentarius
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 124 SAtk / 20 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Psych Up
- Rest
- Thunderbolt

Regice is gay, but so is zapdos and raikou. i wanted to fit snorlax here, but i needed something actually able to damage skarm and beat milotic

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori289.png
Slaking (M) @ Choice Band ** Zodiac
Trait: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Ball

gl switching into this. DE basically ohkos anything neutral to it, safe extremely defensive things

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori376.png
Metagross @ Leftovers ** Apanda
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 20 Def / 96 SAtk / 16 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Meteor Mash
- Psych Up

says hi to curselax. Hp fire is needed with no spiner

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori373.png
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Poison frog
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 136 Spd / 160 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Wish

Focus punch users generally come after slaking kills something, so this thing is great to absorb those hits, plus it gives wish support for the recoil. Great compliment

HaLuZiNaThOr
08-13-2006, 12:49 AM
NB team that has been working awesomely so far. If you're new to nb, or don't what you're talking about, please don't rate


http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori094.png
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers ** Byblos
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- substitute
- focus punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt

owns hard

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori245.png
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Midgar Swarm
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 8 Spd / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- calm mind
- Surf

Cm is boring and cune is generally met up with a safe counter, anyway. This set allows me to counter tyranitar, metagross and salamence a lot better than other waters

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori378.png
Regice @ Leftovers ** Serpentarius
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 124 SAtk / 20 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- thunder wave
- Rest
- Thunderbolt

Regice is gay, but so is zapdos and raikou. i wanted to fit snorlax here, but i needed something actually able to damage skarm and beat milotic

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori289.png
Slaking (M) @ Choice Band ** Zodiac
Trait: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- return
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Ball

gl switching into this. DE basically ohkos anything neutral to it, safe extremely defensive things

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori376.png
Metagross @ Leftovers ** Apanda
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 20 Def / 96 SAtk / 16 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- sludge bomb
- Meteor Mash
- agility

says hi to curselax. Hp fire is needed with no spiner

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori373.png
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Poison frog
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 136 Spd / 160 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- dragon dance
- EQ
- Rock slide
- Wish

Focus punch users generally come after slaking kills something, so this thing is great to absorb those hits, plus it gives wish support for the recoil. Great compliment

those are the standard sets, and they work better, cuz they're from smogon

magneton can hurt you, cuz only regice beats it, and with metal sound, it'll 2hko with hp fire

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 12:54 AM
you're an awesome rater, caps lock guy

- Standard McIcegar sucks in today's metagame with all the swamperts going around, and hypnosis is much better, anyway

- i surely want cm on cune, so tyranitar rapes me while i'm asleep, without a chance to move

- oh yea, thunderwave regice: hey, let's paralyze snorlax and blissey on teh switch, and let raikou and cm celebi own the team!

- DE > return with wish support

- sludge bom sucks on gross, and i need to damage skarm/forry

- DD+wish is illegal, so wishmence needs to be special based

so, yea, awesome rates

celebi
08-13-2006, 03:58 AM
gengar needs destiny bond. and also lum berry is better than leftovers for suicine.

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 04:23 AM
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori094.png
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers ** Byblos
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Hypnosis
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt

Meh. I'd go Giga Drain before I went Fire Punch, just because it's way more likely to see Swampert dropping into Gengar than Metagross and Swampert is incidentally more likely to be a restttalker than Metagross too. It's not like you're going to hit Celebi any harder with it than you would with Ice Punch and Jirachi just lols and CMs in your face. Most pack Wish these days so 'Gar dies. And you're more likely to switch into 'Pert anyways.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori245.png
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Midgar Swarm
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 8 Spd / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Surf

Use ******* Milotic if you want a water type resttalker unless you need the rock resist or something. Marvel Scale > Pressure because without Roar, you kind of scream (and I do mean scream) for Swampert and many others to setup on you repeatedly.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori378.png
Regice @ Leftovers ** Serpentarius
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 124 SAtk / 20 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Psych Up
- Rest
- Thunderbolt

Fine.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori289.png
Slaking (M) @ Choice Band ** Zodiac
Trait: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Ball

I hate Double-Edge Slaking because it prevents him from lategame sweeping. I realize you have 'Mence, but even so, 'Mence isn't nearly as reliable as a wisher as stuff like Vappy so it's kind of meh.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori376.png
Metagross @ Leftovers ** Apanda
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 20 Def / 96 SAtk / 16 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Meteor Mash
- Psych Up

Needs more Explosion.

I've used Psych Up Metagross and can sincerely say that there are many better options for dealing with Snorlax because that's all you're really countering: Snorlax. You'd beat Jirachi by EQing it to death, Celebi BPs to Zapdos who 2HKOs you anyways (you have no Explosion to threaten with), Raikou kills you if it has a Substitute anyways and Swampert pisses on this regardless. I guess if you MUST beat Snorlax it's fine but if you're going through that much effort and ******* with a pokemon that much you might as well use something else. I'd almost do CBgross here with Hidden Power Fire over Sludge Bomb/Rock Slide/whatever - you have a wishmence too so it's not like you can't support 2 CBers.

I mean, Psych Up Gross tends to play like this from my experience:
- Meta switches into 'Lax
- Lax, fearing Explosion or CB Meteor Mash, switches to water type
- Meta Psych Ups the air

And then 'Lax knows better for the rest of the game. It works, but it's kind of meh. Maybe if Metagross wasn't beaten by anything that Celebi was going to pass to it would be cool but Metagross is beaten by Zapdos so the idea is wrecked. And you have ******* Regice anyways.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/sugimori/sugimori373.png
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers ** Poison frog
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 136 Spd / 160 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Wish

I'd go Timid with 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd just to outrun other Salas so you surprise KO them but whatever. The set itself is fine.

Extreme problems with CMcune, seeing how he Calm Minds up on everything short of Slaking and kills them with +6/+6 Calm Mind Surfs. Regice gets Roared and doesn't deal enough on the Thunderbolt to threaten.

Gyarados also gives you problems, what with your counter having no resistance to any of its attacks and how it can wear said counter down very quickly as it switches in. Gyarados, however, gets a few easy switch-ins (namely Suicune and Metagross).

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 05:03 AM
tbh, cm cune hasn't been a problem so far, since regice owns it with ice beam, and roar verisons need spikes to do damage, something that isn't going to happen, since everything can hit skarm/forry hard sans slaking (who can focus punch)

regice also beats gayrados 1 on 1 since hp bird 3hkos, and bolt ohkos, mence can also soften it up

i find fire punch to be better on gar, to hit jirachi and metagross; swampert is no longer a counter since most gar carry giga drain, and i have cune and mence anyway

slaking doesn't exactly sweep with truant, lol, and DE tends to ohko stuff that return doesnt

psych up gross helps against last pokemon curselax. So does explosion, but blowing up my normal resist (gengar doesn't count, as it's piss easy to predict) isn't the best choice

timid mence is meh. I like more hp for more durability, so it can pass wishes more often

Edit: Suicune is also better than milo, as i need that defense while i'm awake, and because milo isn't a reliable tyranitar/aerodactyl counter

pokeplayer66
08-13-2006, 03:57 PM
maybe hynpo instead of gengar due to insomiam, just a thought


and also instead of focus punch snore eats breelom and fury cutter breaks subs if thats your thing

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 05:29 PM
hypno sucks in ou, and i need gengar for another fighting/bug resistance

Ridley
08-13-2006, 05:33 PM
but i needed something actually able to damage skarm
Magneton is the absolute best at that

celebi
08-13-2006, 05:40 PM
your gengar has fire pnch so itcan damage it or you can put a thunder punch instead.

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 05:43 PM
Magneton is the absolute best at that

using maggy over regice would mean that zapdos has ultimate fun with this team

your gengar has fire pnch so itcan damage it or you can put a thunder punch instead.

it already has thunderbolt

David Um
08-13-2006, 05:52 PM
using maggy over regice would mean that zapdos has ultimate fun with this team



it already has thunderbolt
lol maggy can screw over zapdos.

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 06:07 PM
lol maggy can screw over zapdos.

Average Zapdos' thunderbolt to average magneton:

Minimum damage: 42%
Average damage: 46%
Maximum damage: 51%

zapdos 3hkos maggy and is faster, which means magneton only comes into zapdos once. shut up if you don't know what you're talking about, please

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 07:00 PM
regice also beats gayrados 1 on 1 since hp bird 3hkos, and bolt ohkos, mence can also soften it up
The issue isn't whether Regice will win 1-on-1, it's how Regice will keep switching in because it can't. Regice switches in and takes let's say 120 damage. Next time, it's another 120 and the third time Gyara can DD on the switch and KO. And it is possible to get spikes up on this team against the Slaking.

tbh, cm cune hasn't been a problem so far, since regice owns it with ice beam, and roar verisons need spikes to do damage, something that isn't going to happen, since everything can hit skarm/forry hard sans slaking (who can focus punch)
Roar versions Roar Regice out and then hurt everything though. Most of the time they need Spikes to damage but not here; your team is one of the exceptions to the rule. Gengar is OHKOed by boosted Surf, your Suicune can't really take a +6/+6 Surf and if they don't have the +6/+6 Calm Minds they can setup on 'Cune, who cannot retaliate. Sala is 2HKOed by boosted Surf. Slaking is OHKOed. Regice gets Roared so it loses its psych up boosts and can't switch into 'Cune. Metagross is just killed on the account of 'Cune being faster, a bulky water and having CM.

i find fire punch to be better on gar, to hit jirachi and metagross; swampert is no longer a counter since most gar carry giga drain, and i have cune and mence anyway
That was kind of my point. You have 'Cune for Metagross anyways and Jirachi is raped by Regice. And when one of your Swampert counters is 4x weak to Ice, I don't think you make a very strong case for not packing Giga Drain. And Gengar can't switch into Jirachi or Metagross whereas he can switch into Swampert.

Whatever. It's a preference thing. Although I've heard Explosion/Hypnosis/Ice Punch/TBolt does well for some people. I haven't tested it though so I wouldn't be able to say how well it actually performs.

slaking doesn't exactly sweep with truant, lol, and DE tends to ohko stuff that return doesnt
No ****. I realize he doesn't sweep but IMO Slaking is better off in mid-late game when it cleans up by OHKOing ****. That means your HP needs to be high. Double-Edge's power is still good, if you like it more then whatever. I'm just saying I always had better results with Return (and I had Wish Vappy on that team so it's not like I didn't have support for it either).

psych up gross helps against last pokemon curselax. So does explosion, but blowing up my normal resist (gengar doesn't count, as it's piss easy to predict) isn't the best choice
Provided this is an EQlax, wouldn't it make more sense to have Gengar dick around against it with Hypnosis and then have Slaking to throw Focus Punches at it? Maybe if Metagross is your last pokemon it can be a counter but that seems kind of meh to me.

Edit: Suicune is also better than milo, as i need that defense while i'm awake, and because milo isn't a reliable tyranitar/aerodactyl counter
Tyranitar is a valid argument, but resttalk Milotic destroys Aero unless Aero gets about 3 consecutive flinches.

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 08:00 PM
The issue isn't whether Regice will win 1-on-1, it's how Regice will keep switching in because it can't. Regice switches in and takes let's say 120 damage. Next time, it's another 120 and the third time Gyara can DD on the switch and KO. And it is possible to get spikes up on this team against the Slaking.

Yea, i get it. Although gyara isn't taking repeated damage, except maybre from cune


Roar versions Roar Regice out and then hurt everything though. Most of the time they need Spikes to damage but not here; your team is one of the exceptions to the rule. Gengar is OHKOed by boosted Surf, your Suicune can't really take a +6/+6 Surf and if they don't have the +6/+6 Calm Minds they can setup on 'Cune, who cannot retaliate. Sala is 2HKOed by boosted Surf. Slaking is OHKOed. Regice gets Roared so it loses its psych up boosts and can't switch into 'Cune. Metagross is just killed on the account of 'Cune being faster, a bulky water and having CM.

eh. All i have to di is force it to rest, and then regice/slaking rapes it. Slaking survives a 3cm surf, so i guess i can manage to beat it


That was kind of my point. You have 'Cune for Metagross anyways and Jirachi is raped by Regice. And when one of your Swampert counters is 4x weak to Ice, I don't think you make a very strong case for not packing Giga Drain. And Gengar can't switch into Jirachi or Metagross whereas he can switch into Swampert.

Jirachi beats regice, psych up or not. Mence can switch into a predicted IB or curse, and ohko (or do 80% or so). I know that gengar doesn't switch into gross or jirachi, but doing ~45% on the switch is acceptable


Whatever. It's a preference thing. Although I've heard Explosion/Hypnosis/Ice Punch/TBolt does well for some people. I haven't tested it though so I wouldn't be able to say how well it actually performs.

Explosion is kinda meh. gengar is a very valuable thing


No ****. I realize he doesn't sweep but IMO Slaking is better off in mid-late game when it cleans up by OHKOing ****. That means your HP needs to be high. Double-Edge's power is still good, if you like it more then whatever. I'm just saying I always had better results with Return (and I had Wish Vappy on that team so it's not like I didn't have support for it either).

lol, i know. But DE ohkos Milo, Swampert, Blissey, Lax, anda buckload of things that return doesn't


Provided this is an EQlax, wouldn't it make more sense to have Gengar dick around against it with Hypnosis and then have Slaking to throw Focus Punches at it? Maybe if Metagross is your last pokemon it can be a counter but that seems kind of meh to me.

The problem is that most curselax (from what i've seen) carry shadow ball. but yes, gengar is a semi-safe switch into lax


Tyranitar is a valid argument, but resttalk Milotic destroys Aero unless Aero gets about 3 consecutive flinches.

have a nice day

Dragon_Seeker
08-13-2006, 08:09 PM
eh. All i have to di is force it to rest, and then regice/slaking rapes it. Slaking survives a 3cm surf, so i guess i can manage to beat it
How exactly do you force it to Rest though? If Gengar shows up then it dies to Surf. Metagross doesn't have CB and 'Mence deals jack ****. Regice gets Roared. Suicune actually RESTORES health to the CMcune because it can't retaliate or even deal damage. You can't really pressure the Suicune into Rest with anything BUT Slaking.

Jirachi beats regice, psych up or not. Mence can switch into a predicted IB or curse, and ohko (or do 80% or so). I know that gengar doesn't switch into gross or jirachi, but doing ~45% on the switch is acceptable
Umm, no it doesn't. SubCM Jirachi loses to Regice (barring Fire Punch, but you'd be screwed against that anyways). Wish variants might beat Regice but Substitute Jirachis don't. And the 45% you deal can be healed off with Wish later (in Jirachi's case).

And I sincerely hope you meant Earthquake; not Ice Beam.

lol, i know. But DE ohkos Milo, Swampert, Blissey, Lax, anda buckload of things that return doesn't
Double-Edge doesn't OHKO Milotic (provided it's a smart Milotic that uses 280 defense/384 HP) and not a stupid one. Defensive Swamperts (the common ones with 270 defense) shouldn't be OHKOed either.

The problem is that most curselax (from what i've seen) carry shadow ball. but yes, gengar is a semi-safe switch into lax
Most curselax carry Earthquake from what I see these days. Maybe a month ago I'd agree with you but nowadays I see more EQlax.

Elidibs
08-13-2006, 08:14 PM
regice does about ~20% with bolt to cune with a cm, and slaking does ~65%, so between both of them, it will have to rest. and tbh, i haven't seen suispikes in ages, but yea, you've got a fair point

jirachi does beat regice: regi deosn't break the subs, and it'll just have to rest, and rape it with psychic. wish is even worse, though.

DE does ~90% to Milo. It has to be at full health to survive, something pretty situational. And i'm kinda fond of DE now

Edit: yea, lol, i meant EQ. funny of a mence to beat swampert

massi4h
08-14-2006, 10:19 AM
when you say kakuna team, don't you mean SPORK team (Sweet People Only Rock Kakuna)? It's a smogon tournament on atm. It's the one with all of the banned moves. Your team pretty much can't be because you use lots of those moves. What I just said probably didn't make sense so can you explain to me what you mean by your Kakuna team?

Elidibs
08-14-2006, 08:26 PM
What I just said probably didn't make sense so can you explain to me what you mean by your Kakuna team?

it means sarcasm