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Dragon_Seeker
08-14-2006, 03:24 AM
Okay, recently I have noticed a few NB teams popping up around this forum and although this is very pleasing to me (let's face it - seeing people with Fly / Dragon Rage / Metal Claw / Flamethrower Charizard gets rather tedious after a while), there is also a need to address an issue that's been irking me slightly.

It absolutely disgusts me (and I do mean it disgusts me) when people go to smogon, see the first moveset listed and write it over here saying, "Use this moveset, smogon recommends it." And what really grinds me gears is when the poster thinks that because they can write a random set (with no clue how to operate it) they are the greatest thing to happen to pokemon.

Newsflash! You're not.

Odds are, you've seen Megumi posting relentlessly "Everyone knows the standard." Well, guess what. We, the RMT posters, do. We're not actually blowing smoke here or cursing for no apparent reason; the odds are in favour of us actually knowing which movesets are standard.

Furthermore, just because you know how to operate a moveset list does not make you smarter than the average duck. Flaunting this knowledge doesn't make you seem more intelligent than the common potato. If anything, we begin to question why we, the people, don't side with the potato more often. The potato, after all, knows when to keep its damn mouth shut whereas you display the attention demands of a toasted (as in pumped full of marijuana) cheerleader after maybe a dozen cups of coffee.

Nextly, there is a common misconception amongst new forum members that I would like to clarify. You are stupid. Unless you are a "celebrity" (someone with a solid reputation to build on like husk, Darkbolt, G80), you are considered dumb by default and are therefore the newbie. Until you prove to us that you are capable of intelligent thought then you will continue to be a newbie and retain your status as a newbie. It should be noted that being the newie is not actually the worst title possible, however. You can sink lower. Yes. You see, whenever you post a useless rate totally devoid of thought or even basic typing skills, well, that rate is a knock against your credibility. Internet communities are very much like universities. In any decent university, stupid comments on your term paper will come back to haunt you when you get your final grade. Similarly, if you act like an idiot, it will come back to haunt you if you ever decide you actually want to feel wanted here. If you act like an idiot, people WILL treat you like one. This can happen in many ways. Some may ignore you, others may tell you off and others - like myself - may publicly ostracize you and insult you like a drill sergeant until you act less like an idiot and more like a mute.

Now, back to the RMT thing... saying something like this in a rate is NOT sufficient.

Use this on Salamence.

-Dragon Dance
-Hidden Power Flying
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
@ Leftovers

Smogon recommends it.

Congratulations. You can read. Wonderful. So can gorillas. Why should we be motivated to use this set over the Wish set (which is listed last on smogon iirc) if we have CBers? Why should we pay attention to you if you're not going to post why the set should be used instead of, oh, let's say the CB version? What makes this particular recommendation work?

Furthermore, you should know something about smogon. They're not perfect. Contrary to popular belief they are just people like you and me and like people they can make mistakes or just be lazy (more likely the latter). Furthermore, many good ideas don't make it to their current pokedex. For instance...

The common CB Machamp for OU:

~ Cross Chop
~ Hidden Power Bug / Ghost
~ Rock Slide
~ Facade / Sleep Talk / Earthquake

Usually with HP Bug for Celebi switches because you benefit from 'Clops Will-O-Wisps and Gengar takes a hard hit from Rock Slide. EQ for Jirachi and randoms but Facade owns Weezing whereas Sleep Talk lets you slap stuff like Breloom. Facade is probably more useful with Toxic Milotic being as popular as it is these days.

Smogon recommends:

~ Cross Chop
~ Focus Punch
~ Rock Slide
~ Hidden Power Ghost

This moveset is outdated. They discovered that Cross Chop is actually more useful than Focus Punch against Skarmory because if you get the CH or just hit Skarmory more than once, you can stick around to keep CCing. With Focus Punch, you just had another fighting move that's often dead-weight on the moveset in favour of the more consistent Cross Chop.

This is by no means a knock against smogon because I guarantee that if you posted in the RMT forum asking for CB Machamp on a team that can adequately support it, they would likely give you something closer to the first. Their community takes the effort to stay updated.

Their pokedex, however, is overdue for an update. Hence, the smogon "Edit an Analysis" Topic, where people take time to edit said analyses. However, updating the Dex is a long process and therefore individual analyses are rarely updated. They usually get updated en mass whenever chaos reveals his new site upgrade.

Not that anyone can blame him - changing 219 pokemon analyses and moving them and reformatting them is tedious and it makes more sense to just do a mass update to save time anyways.

However, that does mean that just because smogon lists it doesn't mean it's awesome. It means that at one point it worked for someone but it might not work these days.

So, that said, just grabbing a random set off smogon and posting it in an RMT topic will probably not make you look smart. It's entirely possible that you pull the exact moveset that makes the team flawless but somewhere in 219 pokemon analyses with multiple movesets in most pokemons' cases, it's unlikely you will unless you know what you're talking about. In which case, this thread isn't directed at you anyways.

Elidibs
08-14-2006, 03:45 AM
Tyranitar's analysis is also quite outdated with boah being the firts set, when the DD and CB variant are way more common (on people who know what they're doing). Another examples are: Milotic (Toxic stalk is more popular than hypnosis), celebi (swordpassing), swampert (mixpert over cursepert), and maybe some more i'm forgetting atm

Dragon_Seeker
08-14-2006, 03:52 AM
Moltres, Raichu, Walrein, Altaria, Primeape, just about any NU analysis they have, Lanturn... many pokemon can be listed.

But that is NOT the point of this thread. It's to address that people who don't know what they're talking about should not depend on smogon but rather common sense (which is, incidentally, not all that common). Sometimes not talking is the best choice when you have nothing to say.

Elidibs
08-14-2006, 03:59 AM
yea, well, i can't say how're this forum's raters acting, as i've just joined, lol. Just pointing that going to smogon and copy the first set isn't a valid rate

bleep
08-14-2006, 07:16 AM
Nextly, there is a common misconception amongst new forum members that I would like to clarify. You are stupid. Unless you are a "celebrity" (someone with a solid reputation to build on. Ex: Husk, Darkbolt, G80), you are considered dumb by default and are therefore the newbie. Until you prove to us that you are capable of intelligent thought (like rekt did with some of his contributions), then you will continue to be a newbie.
^

edit: master trainer yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dragon_Seeker
08-14-2006, 07:38 AM
^
I really should post that here tbh.

Echo
08-14-2006, 09:32 AM
Awesome thread, DS.

Finch
08-14-2006, 10:07 AM
Yeah. If only i'd had the authority on NB to post something like this, I would've done months ago. Not becuase I think I'm good.. I know I'm not. Just because I know thos kind of raters are worse.

Hmm.. anything to add..

Oh yes. Post count is not equal or proportional to reputation. Post quality, on the other hand, is.

I remember when Chris (younglink) was a big offender, but he's since become a decent rater. Just shows you can learn.

bleep
08-14-2006, 02:59 PM
Good to see you added those extra words of wisdom!

Lordofgames
08-14-2006, 03:22 PM
A question.

Are we allowed to post Pokemon analyses in this forum? If posted, it would help a lot of newbies to improve their battling skills. They would probably NOT use random moves on random Pokemon. Just today I saw someone using a Shuckle with Earthquake. He was cursing me that it was doing 1% damage to my Celebi ._. He even said I had hacked NetBattle. I just couldn't help laughing right then. But my point is, with analyses, people won't use EQShuckle.

bleep
08-14-2006, 03:26 PM
Not a great idea for this particular forum, IMO, but if you want to you can.

If a new forum is started for them I guess it would help, but PE2K is more of a general Pokemon website with netbattle as one of the categories.

Finch
08-14-2006, 03:33 PM
Unlike yours, bleep, which were just words.

If you post Analyses you'll get flamed by someone who thinks they can do better. Whether they can or not is irrelevant because they don't bother.

Lordofgames
08-14-2006, 03:53 PM
of course, analysies would be flamed sometimes if they are bad. People would have their opinions, but flaming without reasons would probably be ignored.

I suggest maybe a sub-forum could be made.

bleep
08-16-2006, 06:42 PM
bump.

requesting pin on this after seeing this post (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showpost.php?p=560797&postcount=2) in this topic. (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21303)