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pokeplayer66
08-19-2006, 10:18 PM
Swellow (F) @ Choice Band ** CB Terror
Trait: Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Facade
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Quick Attack
- Return

Thats right, 3 normal attacks, go ahead flame me but its a CBer and hurts like hell and I've no choice but to go with all 3 (Returns bashes stuff, Facade 1HKOS Blissey after a T-wave and Quick Attack 1HKOS Dugtrio, beats Flailers/Reversalers and finsishes off stuff). Not the greatest starter but Return does 75% to Zappy, I'm thinking about swapping places with Heracross so it's not screwed by Zapdos early in the game.

Milotic (M) @ Leftovers ** rorriM taoC
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 2 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd / 128 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Surf

Yup, mirror coat. Toxic works well also but when Regice/Starmie come out after you've taken down Duggy and 'Mence it's awesome for a last kill FTW. Toxic helps in the long run but Mirror Coat is infact my cup of tea.

Heracross (F) @ Salac Berry ** Come out Celebi
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 16 HP / 242 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Megahorn
- Reversal
- Rock Slide

Standard Endureacross. Rock Slide is for fliers and stuff like Gengar and 'Mence who wall this bad boy like a *****. 305 HP so after 4 Seismic Tosses I can Reversal Blissey FTW. Rock Slide could be replaced for Swords Dance but whatever...

Alakazam (M) @ Lum Berry ** Abra Kadabra
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic
- Thunderpunch

Special Sweeper, awesomness of Lumchronize hurts stuff. Nothing else to see here. Keep a movin'.


Zangoose (F) @ Salac Berry ** Duck Duck Goose
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Flail
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance

Flailgoose, yes it only calls for a sandstorm for Heracross and Zangoose to lose but I'm willing to take that risk. 1 Swords Dance kills 'Gross and Aerodactyl so watch out this thing can really sweep to victory, and if thats not enough it outspeeds Heracross, cool huh.


Magneton @ Leftovers ** Triple Fagneton
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Metal Sound
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

Standard Fagneton to kill Skarmory, DUH. At first I had Max SP Atk and mixed defenses/HP but then people started to tell me Magneton can't survive crap, so I gave it enough speed to outspeed Rhydon and Swampert (I gave it maxed speed). Ive considered Nosepass for its ability to Explode on stuff, but its slow as a rock (It is a rock) and didn't seem that great, but if anyone wants to help me find Nosepass set that works, be my guest.

Lugialord
08-20-2006, 03:08 AM
All pretty good. These are the ones I'd change:

Milotic@Leftovers
Bold Nature
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hypnosis/Mirror Coat
-Recover


Alakazam@Leftovers
Modest Nature
-Calm Mind
-Thunderpunch
-Ice punch
-Psychic

Elidibs
08-20-2006, 04:43 AM
Swellow (F) @ Choice Band ** CB Terror
Trait: Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Facade
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Quick Attack
- Return

Return+Facade is pointless. Use aerial ace over hp fling, and go with hp fighting. keep facade, it's much more useful than return imo

Milotic (M) @ Leftovers ** rorriM taoC
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 2 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd / 128 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Surf

Mirror coat is pointless. You'll only surprise people once. raikou and jolteon will just sub on you, ruining your surpirse, anyway

Heracross (F) @ Salac Berry ** Come out Celebi
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 16 HP / 242 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Megahorn
- Reversal
- Rock Slide

Swords dance > Rock slide. NVE reversal does same damage as SE rock slide, and you can't ohko gengar anyway. Also, this thing only needs 264 Speed

Alakazam (M) @ Lum Berry ** Abra Kadabra
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic
- Thunderpunch

Timid nature. Calm mind needs to be somewhere. ice punch and thunderpunch are kinda meh, seeing how you 2hko most things with psychic/fire punch, safe for claydol/tyranitar and doom, all which can get hit by hp water over one of those


Zangoose (F) @ Salac Berry ** Duck Duck Goose
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Flail
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance

eh


Magneton @ Leftovers ** Triple Fagneton
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Metal Sound
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

yea, ok


Tyranitar absolutely rapes this team, seeing how it ruins the reveralers, and you lack a rock resist. tbh, you don't really need zangoose; heracross does the job better, and you could replace it for something to take hits

David Um
08-20-2006, 06:22 AM
I don't think tyranitar rapes his team because he has milotic and heracross.

BUt milotic needs almost max HP. it doesn't need any speed either.

Milotic@leftovers
bold nature
EVs-232HP/216 def/62 sp.att
-hypnosis
-surf
-ice beam
-recover

massi4h
08-20-2006, 08:40 AM
btw you swellow has 252 s atk instead of 252 spd. I suggest you fix it.

pokeplayer66
08-20-2006, 12:11 PM
thanks about the swellow i was wondering why slaking outsped it xD


i dont get why hypnosis on miltoic works? maybe i should try out toxic...


tyrannitar loses to surf and miltoc has max def + recover and it dies to megahorn


as for aerial ace over HP flying i had just changed it to HP flying because theres 10 more base power, yes double teamers cry about aerial ace but aerial ace does 90% to ludicolo HP flying does 1hko

Elidibs
08-20-2006, 07:35 PM
tyrannitar loses to surf and miltoc has max def + recover and it dies to megahorn

Milotic gets 2hko'd by rock slide, and tyranitar can come when heracross is at 1hp for reversal, killing it with sandstream. Milotic will never beat tyranitar if you switch it on it, get a rock resist like swampert


as for aerial ace over HP flying i had just changed it to HP flying because theres 10 more base power, yes double teamers cry about aerial ace but aerial ace does 90% to ludicolo HP flying does 1hko

I didn't mean use aa over hp flying for double teamers, but because you need hp fighting to hit rocks and steels, leaving your swellow with 3 normal attacks and a flying move is just asking to get beaten by any rock out there. You need a move to hurt those

just noticed how your team gets raped by zapdos and any other special attacker

pokeplayer66
08-23-2006, 08:34 PM
rock slide heracross loses to zapdos? dont think so


BTW DS please oh please rate this sexy team o' mine

you are like the coolest pokemoner ever *bows down* rate it plz

Dragon_Seeker
08-23-2006, 11:39 PM
rock slide heracross loses to zapdos? dont think so
Rock Slide Heracross can switch into Zapdos? I don't think so.

Swellow (F) @ Choice Band ** CB Terror
Trait: Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Facade
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Quick Attack
- Return

I've never really liked Facade on this thing when you already have Return. TBH I'd pick one or the other and use Hidden Power Fighting or Ground in the unused slot.

HP Fight/Ground, Aerial Ace, Facade/Return, Return/Quick Attack @ CB.

I wouldn't want to be leading with this.

Milotic (M) @ Leftovers ** rorriM taoC
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 2 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd / 128 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Surf

I'd strongly recommend replacing this with this:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 36 Atk / 120 Def / 112 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Because you have insane DDtar issues and you need something to absorb sleep. Sleep Talk Swampert has beaten most DDtars I've seen awake or otherwise and you really need the rock resist. It also helps against Jirachi, who kills this team like no other.

Heracross (F) @ Salac Berry ** Come out Celebi
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 16 HP / 242 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Megahorn
- Reversal
- Rock Slide

I'd just use CBgross here with Megahorn, Rock Slide, Focus Punch, Sleep Talk or something like it. Reversal Heracross is kind of meh and makes you that much more vulnerable to TTar. If you do want to keep Salac, try this:

Heracross (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Spd / 20 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Set the HP IV to 30. EVs are like max attack, either max speed or enough for 264 and the remaining EVs in special defense. Swarm or Guts is up to you but the guy who made it used Swarm. When I tried it, it worked fairly well. Walled by Skarmory but you have Magneton so it's not an issue.

Alakazam (M) @ Lum Berry ** Abra Kadabra
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic
- Thunderpunch

I really dislike Alakazams without Calm Mind and Recover but whatever.

Zangoose (F) @ Salac Berry ** Duck Duck Goose
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Flail
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance

I'd replace this with Steelix so you have something to use against Raikou (and a much-needed normal resist that doesn't die to STAB Returns).

Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 212 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Roar
- Toxic

It also helps against Zapdos and you need a lot of help against Zapdos right now. Those EVs aren't the best, someone can probably think of something better. Steelix also helps against Raikou and provides a solid normal resist, which you really, really need.

Magneton @ Leftovers ** Triple Fagneton
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Metal Sound
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt

You're not going to do much else with Magneton... this seems fine.

pokeplayer66
08-24-2006, 10:22 PM
why aerial ace over HP flying

Dragon_Seeker
08-25-2006, 03:26 AM
why aerial ace over HP flying
Because you need either HP Fighting or HP Ground and Swellow doesn't learn any other moderately acceptable flying moves.

David Um
08-25-2006, 07:28 AM
Replace swellow with dodrio.

3 reasons:

1. even swellow was max speed, it can't outspeed fags like jolteon and other pokemon that have 394 speed.

2. Dodrio has 110 base attack while swellow has 85 base attack.

3. HP fighting OHKOs Tyranitar and ground 2HKOs metagross while swellow's HP fighting can't OHKO tyranitar.

dodrio@choice band
adamant nature
EVs-6HP/252 att/252 speed
-return
-drill peck
-HP ground
-quick attack.


alakazam@leftovers
modest nature
EVs-6HP/252 sp.att/252 speed
-fire punch
-thunderpunch/HP water
-calm mind
-psychic
You don't need recover because physical sweepers are mostly going to OHKO you anyway. Calm minded fire punch OHKOs metagross and thundepunch dents suicune badly. You don't need Ice punch because you'll OHKO salamence with CM psychic anyway.

You might consider HP water for pokemon like tyranitar, claydol, and houndoom.

without steelix, you got curselax issues. over half of your team has weaknesses to raikou as well.

hsb39
08-25-2006, 08:03 AM
Has nobody noticed that the Swellow has Special Attack EV's, where those supposed to be Special Defense???!!!

bleep
08-25-2006, 09:36 AM
anything special beats this team into oblivion as soon as it switches in on something like milotic. mirror coat will only work one time because everyone will expect it as soon as you're done. cmraikou, cmcune, cmjirachi all own you and are pretty common.

pokeplayer66
08-25-2006, 12:22 PM
Replace swellow with dodrio.

3 reasons:

1. even swellow was max speed, it can't outspeed fags like jolteon and other pokemon that have 394 speed.

2. Dodrio has 110 base attack while swellow has 85 base attack.

3. HP fighting OHKOs Tyranitar and ground 2HKOs metagross while swellow's HP fighting can't OHKO tyranitar.

dodrio@choice band
adamant nature
EVs-6HP/252 att/252 speed
-return
-drill peck
-HP ground
-quick attack.


alakazam@leftovers
modest nature
EVs-6HP/252 sp.att/252 speed
-fire punch
-thunderpunch/HP water
-calm mind
-psychic
You don't need recover because physical sweepers are mostly going to OHKO you anyway. Calm minded fire punch OHKOs metagross and thundepunch dents suicune badly. You don't need Ice punch because you'll OHKO salamence with CM psychic anyway.

You might consider HP water for pokemon like tyranitar, claydol, and houndoom.

without steelix, you got curselax issues. over half of your team has weaknesses to raikou as well.



put it into a damage calculator before you go blabbing, my i changed it to


HP fighting
AA
QA
Facade

and HP fighting 1hkod a TTAR, i switched heracross to first (starter) and replaced rock slide with swords dance


swellow has guts, and when i switch in on blisseys Twave facade 1hkos it, skarmory comes to wall? no biggie...go maggy! KILL




Heracross (F) @ Salac Berry ** Celebi Killer
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 16 HP / 247 Atk / 247 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Megahorn
- Reversal
- Swords Dance

Swellow (M) @ Choice Band ** CB Terror
Trait: Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Facade
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Quick Attack

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers ** Fish Thing
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 18 HP / 252 Def / 120 SAtk / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Surf
- Toxic

Alakazam (M) @ Lum Berry ** Abra Kadabra!
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Psychic
- Thunderpunch

Zangoose (M) @ Salac Berry ** Duck Duck Goose
Trait: Immunity
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Endure
- Flail
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance

Magneton @ Leftovers ** Fagneton x3
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Metal Sound
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt



heres how it is now, my question is why toxic on steelix and is there anyway to fit explosion and/or psych up on that set? thanks

Dragon_Seeker
08-26-2006, 01:28 AM
You don't need recover because physical sweepers are mostly going to OHKO you anyway. Calm minded fire punch OHKOs metagross and thundepunch dents suicune badly. You don't need Ice punch because you'll OHKO salamence with CM psychic anyway.

You might consider HP water for pokemon like tyranitar, claydol, and houndoom.
I would sincerely appreciate it if you took the time to learn about what you're talking about.

Recover, while not completely necessary, allows Alakazam to scare a lot more than it does with the third attack. For instance... while Blisseys without Thunder Wave can kill Recover-less Alakazams with ease, they have a very hard time killing the ones with Recover. Same goes for Milotic after it's put something to sleep and a lot of defensive water types (like Vaporeon or even Starmie). After a Calm Mind, Surf is 3HKO from Vappy, which allows more setup to Recover it off. If you Calm Mind and Zapdos comes in, you can shrug off the Thunderbolts (most Zapdos are RestTalkers) and beat it to death with Psychic (Zapdos TBolt with Modest deals 151 damage after a CM with 0 SDef EVs. If you're doing Recover, you probably have 305 HP because you'd want that for surviving Seismic Toss and Recover, meaning Zapdos 3HKOs you and the damage is recoverable. Barring paralysis hax and CHs, of course).

Thunderpunch is not needed because Psychic already hits Suicune for almost identical damage. Please look at the damage calcs:

Timid Thunderpunch without CM on 266 SDef Suicune = 161 avg (min is 148, max is 174)
Timid Psychic without CM on 266 SDef Suicune = 144 avg (min is 132, max is 156)

That's a whole 17 points difference. And you're still almost guaranteed to tear 50% or more of Suicune's HP out with either move after a Calm Mind. If you're Modest, which is what I assume, then it makes even more sense to run Recover because you ARE guaranteed to 2HKO Suicune after the CM and force a Roar with BOTH moves. Thunderpunch, while useful in theory, is superfluous and not needed.

That's ignoring the argument that Recover is pointless because Zam won't survive the physical moves that it's clearly not meant to take because it really is a weak argument.

@ PokePlayer:

If you dislike Toxic, fine, use Psych Up. I won't recommend Explosion though, simply because Steelix is your normal resist and blowing that up without a backup one isn't always the best idea in the world. Some teams can support blowing up their regular normal resistance but this one cannot because it already support way more frail pokemon than it should.

David Um
08-26-2006, 03:39 AM
well, I'm trying to help.

I don't like recover on my alakazams so I thought it didn't need recover.

Poke Master
08-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Alakazam:

Calm Mind
Psychic
thunderbolt
shadow Ball

I could defeat your team becuase of my Sp.atk

aztec005
08-26-2006, 11:05 AM
say any one here got any good move sets for plusle and minun

Poke Master
08-26-2006, 11:18 AM
say any one here got any good move sets for plusle and minun

you could make a new thread giving movesets to trainwers who need them

pokeplayer66
08-26-2006, 03:15 PM
isnt magneton normal resist?


and could counter on steelix work? can i use rock slide over HP rock or what?


and as for

psychic
ice punch
recover
calm mind

on kazam how do i hurt magneton with posible HP grass

Lugialord
08-27-2006, 04:04 AM
Slight Change:

Go with the Alakazam I posted, for Milotic:

Milotic@Leftovers
Bold Nature
-Surf
-Toxic
-Rest
-Sleep Talk



or



Milotic@Leftovers
Bold Nature
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hypnosis
-Recover

pokeplayer66
08-28-2006, 08:47 PM
DS, ive tried out swampy and steelicks and ive not quite found either to my liking :( swampert is good for switching in on spores and hypnosis and stuff but it cant switch into aerodactlys double-edge like miltoic can and recover off the damage, yes it has restalk but its a 33% chance ill ice beam aero and even then i doubt its a 1HKO unlike surf which gets STAB


steelix, its been good a few times out of the times i used it and thats switching in on curselax and psycho-phazing aka psych up to absorb EQ then roar, with the attack + def boost it can hurt stuff but thats the only time, no attack EVs so it doesnt hurt anything reallly, the other time im glad i have sttelix is to roar stuff, its HP rock which is x4 effective against ice/flying (articuno) did a lousy 40%, now yes it was stall stalkcuno and prolly had nice defenses but still


i was thinking about using armaldo as normal resist cuz it can rapid spin and if i take skarmory down with maggy and rapid spin spikes away, well thats hawt.


Armaldo
@Leftovers/???
EVs Ive no clue


Swords Dance
Rapid Spin
Rock Blast
HP [Bug]/Rest



EDIT: Im going to try regirock can you give me a good tankish exploding cursing set thing thx