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Nick_Roge
08-28-2006, 04:32 PM
I would like to ask something of the people of pe2k. how do we if the christian, the islamic, buhdist or any religion that you can think of is real? for example how do we know the bible wan't just written by somebody with to much spare time on thier hands? Mods feel free to close this any time it you thnk it gets to innapropriate.


Disclamer: I'm not trying to make fun of anyones religion.

squirtle
08-28-2006, 04:56 PM
i wont say too much because the last time i spoke my mind i got banned, but i think religion is bogus. until i get some real evidence im not changing my mind.

SiberianTiger
08-28-2006, 05:45 PM
I'm the complete opposite of up top, though I will get banned if I ever speak what I want to.

Vampire
08-28-2006, 06:50 PM
Don't we have a thred for this?

Callum
08-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Don't we have a thred for this?

I don't remember it being done before, but it is an interesting thread.

I think Religion gives people comfort. It makes people feel happy and content. It inspires people and gives people faith. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not religious, but if someone were to prove to me the whole Bible idea, God, and all that shizzle was real, I'd quite happily say okay I was wrong. I just don't believe some concepts of religion. E.g. Heaven and Hell.

And of course, Humans being so powerful, only they have the right to an afterlife lol, all animals which aren't human just decompose and rot lol. :oops:

Vampire
08-28-2006, 07:51 PM
I don't remember it being done before, but it is an interesting thread.

I think Religion gives people comfort. It makes people feel happy and content. It inspires people and gives people faith. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not religious, but if someone were to prove to me the whole Bible idea, God, and all that shizzle was real, I'd quite happily say okay I was wrong. I just don't believe some concepts of religion. E.g. Heaven and Hell.

And of course, Humans being so powerful, only they have the right to an afterlife lol, all animals which aren't human just decompose and rot lol. :oops:
I don't believe in god, but a, lets say, government of angels and higher power, in hell a "government" of demons.
As a witch I believe in magic and it can be accssed though series of meditation, also as a psychic "in training" I read taort cards, runes and I own a crystal ball.
So I believe there is mana, a "god" like creater that excists within the 4 elements; Water, Fire, Air, Earth.

Endurance
08-28-2006, 08:09 PM
Each Religion has a meaning to the person who believes in it. It sometimes takes the person imagination above and beyond.
I'm religious, but not to the point that I go to church every Sunday. But I believe it Christ because there could be a possibility that maybe a man like him did exist. Maybe he was the son of god or maybe he was just a man that done these miracles which may have not been miracles in his eyes or maybe the other way around.
Then you have the Old Testament which to me doesn't seem realistic because if it was just Adam and Eve, then why aren't we all deformed? Why aren't we all the same? Why are there different colors? It just doesn't add up to me. Why aren't we all rubber Johnnies?
It is a really complex situation. Maybe they were all written by guys that had way too much time on there hands. Maybe they all started as stories that were really never written.
But if it is true every religion, then why do we treat it as religion. We might as well treat it like history (But not how the way the history channel treats W.W.II) But there have been proof that our religious have truth. Like Moses and his journey to free his people. It is believable, scientists have discovered. And crucifying people wasn’t uncommon, they were being done when Jesus was being crucified by the Romans, in fact many.
All and all, religion is your choice to believe in and it is up to you to think what you want. No one call tell you ‘oh that is not true’ or ‘your wrong’. Just take my great uncle for example. He still believes in the Greek Gods and thinks Jesus stepped foot on this earth. Is he wrong? No, it is just what he believes.

Nick_Roge
08-28-2006, 08:27 PM
i wont say too much because the last time i spoke my mind i got banned, but i think religion is bogus. until i get some real evidence im not changing my mind.

I'm the complete opposite of up top, though I will get banned if I ever speak what I want to.

Don't worry i've okayed this thread with Neo.

Surly Professor
08-28-2006, 09:27 PM
When man has a problem, he invents things that solve the problem.
And one of the biggest problems that trouble the minds of mankind is his own mortality.
So, Man solved this problem by inventing for himself an afterlife (whether through bodily resurrection, reincarnation, heaven and hell, or "cyclic" concepts of time, etc...)

But in this modern world, where we don't have to depend on the supernatural for our world view some still aren't inclined to learn how the universe really works, and use a god to explain all that they don't know. It's has easy answers.

It's an empowering mythos where there is a just & moral order in the universe . That gives believers a sense or purpose or meaning to life. Religion can give one confirmation of one's own moral superiority, and a feeling of being chosen.

Most people of faith are the same religion as their parents, and religious communities are huge, and well established. So, I think it's also the sense of belonging that keeps many people going.




"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein

Nick_Roge
08-28-2006, 10:34 PM
Each Religion has a meaning to the person who believes in it. It sometimes takes the person imagination above and beyond.
I'm religious, but not to the point that I go to church every Sunday. But I believe it Christ because there could be a possibility that maybe a man like him did exist. Maybe he was the son of god or maybe he was just a man that done these miracles which may have not been miracles in his eyes or maybe the other way around.
Then you have the Old Testament which to me doesn't seem realistic because if it was just Adam and Eve, then why aren't we all deformed? Why aren't we all the same? Why are there different colors? It just doesn't add up to me. Why aren't we all rubber Johnnies?
It is a really complex situation. Maybe they were all written by guys that had way too much time on there hands. Maybe they all started as stories that were really never written.
But if it is true every religion, then why do we treat it as religion. We might as well treat it like history (But not how the way the history channel treats W.W.II) But there have been proof that our religious have truth. Like Moses and his journey to free his people. It is believable, scientists have discovered. And crucifying people wasn’t uncommon, they were being done when Jesus was being crucified by the Romans, in fact many.
All and all, religion is your choice to believe in and it is up to you to think what you want. No one call tell you ‘oh that is not true’ or ‘your wrong’. Just take my great uncle for example. He still believes in the Greek Gods and thinks Jesus stepped foot on this earth. Is he wrong? No, it is just what he believes.


I can completly agree with that and to answer your question (bolded) if what the bible says is true that adam and eve were kicked out of the garden of eaden and had relations, then thier kids had relations and so on and so forth and they moved around and evolution gave them lighter or darker skin pigmentations.

silver mod
08-28-2006, 10:36 PM
When man has a problem, he tries to remedy that problem.
And the biggest problem that troubles the minds of mankind is his own mortality.
So, Man solved this problem by inventing for himself an afterlife (whether through bodily resurrection, reincarnation, heaven and hell, or "cyclic" concepts of time, etc...)
There is a just & moral order in the universe of the faithful with a sence or purpose or meaning to life.

But in this modern world, where we don't have to depend on the supernatural for our world view some still aren't inclined to learn how the universe really works, and use a god to explain all that they don't know. It's has easy answers
Most people of faith are the same religion as their parents, and religious communities are huge, and well established. So, I think it's also the sence of belonging that keeps many people going.




"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein
You for got about woman trouble :crackup:

Nick_Roge
08-28-2006, 10:37 PM
You for got about woman trouble :crackup:

lol i just fell out of my seat laughing.

Surly Professor
08-28-2006, 10:55 PM
You for got about woman trouble :crackup:
:goofy: As soon as we find a solution let me know.

Nick_Roge
08-28-2006, 10:57 PM
:goofy: As soon as we find a solution let me know.

That'd be nice but let's get back on subject.

The Kaiser
08-28-2006, 11:20 PM
Pretty devout Roman Catholic here, just jumping in to give my opinion. I've been a veteran of debates and the like on other forums, but kind of tried to just leave them alone. This site though doesn't look to have many people who are going to hound ideals and such, so I suppose I can pop in and say my bit.

There's really nothing wrong with religious thought at all. The main problem/threat comes when man (in a general sense) wants a reason to be able to do something, and uses religion as cover-up for bigotry and other unsavorable acts against others. Religion in it's purest sense, not being used for reasons that are less than pure, is a very good thing. It gives people a good set of guidelines to live their lives by (unless said religion is not the best in it's teachings, see Fred Phelp's cult), and keeps people closer. You can't really be a douche if you're really trying to be a good Christian, love your enemies, and help all people less fortunate than yourself, can you? In my opinion, not really.

Again, most problems come from people trying to use religion for their own use, and to a lesser extent, misenterpretations of things and scriptures.

Nykwana Wombosi
08-28-2006, 11:36 PM
Religion should be a good thing. Not just because it's religion, but also because it can effect the way you are in real life. There's this sportsman, Yousuf Youhana, who was a decent player for Pakistan, but nothing more than decent. At some stage however, he converted to the islam, changed his name to Mohamed Yousuf and grew a beard. From then on, his performances increased dramatically, as he changed from a decent player into a star player. As he said himself, "he had not changed his game, but he had changed his life". In his case, he got more discipline from his religion, and a less aggressive attitute. So religion is good. Anybody who truely tries to follow the 10 Commandments surely can't be a bad person?

However. These could be called positive extern effects of religion, but it can also be used wrongly. Firstly, I think you should keep religion to yourself. You believe in God, that's perfectly fine but don't shove it upon others, who in turn should not shove their atheism upon you. You should also keep it to yourself, because if you think you have to convert the whole world or something, you will very soon have to resort to the methods that extremist groups like Al-Quaeda and Hamas use. And also the points that Kinslayer addresses: if you keep it to yourself there should be no problem if you misinterpretate anything. You will decide for yourself that your way is the way to go, but since you don't shove it upon others that is no problem for anybody else. Whereas, if you do want to convert the whole world and you misinterpretate something, then you're really screwed because then you're even doing stuff wrong according to the God of your religion. And lastly, yes, when people use religion as cover up then you're in for trouble. Though those people should realize that that is no valid reason, since their religion does not apply for everybody.

Nick_Roge
08-29-2006, 12:04 AM
The main problem/threat comes when man (in a general sense) wants a reason to be able to do something, and uses religion as cover-up for bigotry and other unsavorable acts against others.

would that be like when in Full Metal Scar covers up his killing innocent dogs of the military *can't think of what there accually called right now* by saying it's an act of god?

Rohypnol
08-29-2006, 12:15 AM
I agree with the kaiser. Roman Catholic as well

The Kaiser
08-29-2006, 01:12 AM
would that be like when in Full Metal Scar covers up his killing innocent dogs of the military *can't think of what there accually called right now* by saying it's an act of god?

WEll, my knowledge of Scar's religious tenants aren't too good anymore, but if his God was all about peace and love, then yeah, that's not really what his God was professing, was it? Just an excuse to cover up his acts of murder.

Although, in a way, he "did" believe he was under a quest in a way from his God, so it could also be chalked up under "misenterpretations of teachings".

Nick_Roge
08-29-2006, 01:20 AM
k Thanks that definatley cleard that up for me.

Ham and Cheese
08-29-2006, 04:10 AM
Why is this turning into FMA chat? :ermm:

SiberianTiger
08-29-2006, 04:26 AM
Don't worry i've okayed this thread with Neo.

Cool no citations!


Each Religion has a meaning to the person who believes in it. It sometimes takes the person imagination above and beyond.
I'm religious, but not to the point that I go to church every Sunday. But I believe it Christ because there could be a possibility that maybe a man like him did exist. Maybe he was the son of god or maybe he was just a man that done these miracles which may have not been miracles in his eyes or maybe the other way around.
Then you have the Old Testament which to me doesn't seem realistic because if it was just Adam and Eve, then why aren't we all deformed? Why aren't we all the same? Why are there different colors? It just doesn't add up to me. Why aren't we all rubber Johnnies?
It is a really complex situation. Maybe they were all written by guys that had way too much time on there hands. Maybe they all started as stories that were really never written.
But if it is true every religion, then why do we treat it as religion. We might as well treat it like history (But not how the way the history channel treats W.W.II) But there have been proof that our religious have truth. Like Moses and his journey to free his people. It is believable, scientists have discovered. And crucifying people wasn’t uncommon, they were being done when Jesus was being crucified by the Romans, in fact many.
All and all, religion is your choice to believe in and it is up to you to think what you want. No one call tell you ‘oh that is not true’ or ‘your wrong’. Just take my great uncle for example. He still believes in the Greek Gods and thinks Jesus stepped foot on this earth. Is he wrong? No, it is just what he believes.



Just a quick word: we are different colors/look different because of the tower of babylon where people tryed to build to heaven, God spit the people's languages and split them apart hence different locations to live hence different skin pigments etc. and why go to church on sunday?? It says on the SEVENTH day he rested count the days Saturday equals SEVENTH day.

I can debate all day on anything (I like to be informed) but I'll still keep things "low".

~Isaiah

Dakota
08-29-2006, 10:08 PM
referring to christianity:

I just wanna clarify that someone can be "religious" all their life and still go to hell. Being religious has almost nothing to do with someone's faith. The pharisees were extremely religious; they gave tons of money to the church, went to church all the time, gave money to the poor, prayed out loud and in the streets...but Jesus had almost nothing but negative things to say about them. If someone practices 'religion' because they've been brought up to, it's an empty thing. That's why so many people who proclaim themselves to be christian really aren't, they just say that they are because they've been brought up in church. People think they're christians just because they're parents were, or that they go to church twice a year, or because they're Americans, or a number of reason that aren't in the bible. It's all about the bible. You can't be a christian without knowing exactly why you're a christian, and the only way to know if you're a christian is the bible. Not church or monks or nuns or bishops or priests or tithe or pastors or popes or communion or charity or anything else.

Woo...a flame free rant. That's a new one for me.

Nick_Roge
08-29-2006, 11:42 PM
well said.

Galleon
08-31-2006, 05:54 AM
If I may interject, I'd like to present some information and opinions to the table. I also realize that this topic can be extremely fragile, so I'll try to be as delicate with my words as possible.
I would like to ask something of the people of pe2k. how do we if the christian, the islamic, buhdist or any religion that you can think of is real? for example how do we know the bible wan't just written by somebody with to much spare time on thier hands?
Actually, the Bible was written by something like forty different people over a span of about 1500 years, most of which had little to no ties with each other. That's just widely accepted fact. If you don't believe me, then check out some resources: here (http://www.carm.org/bible/biblewhen.htm) and here (http://www.allabouttruth.org/when-was-the-bible-written-faq.htm) and here (http://www.ibs.org/bibles/about/3.php). And those are just from a quick google search; there's plenty of information out there for those who really wish to know.

One common thing that I find troublesome is lack of information about the facts of the Bible, where people tend to just assume things about religion without giving any effort to find out more about it. Oftentimes, people dismiss anything affiliated with religion, considering just a bunch of words made under false pretense or some such thing. I find this disturbing simply because when people stop seeking out their own answers to important questions such as these, they tend to just go with whatever they are told, or even make up their own answers.

As many of you have previously stated in this thread, individuals are affected heavily by how they are raised, whether that deals with sticking with a certain religion or shying away from the ideals 'forced' upon them. It's also already been said that problems will certainly arise when religion is used in ways that it shouldn't be, such as the accumulation of power. But really, that's how this world has always worked; where ever power gathers into strong concentration, there arise those who wish to abuse that power. Not only does this apply to religion, but also with things like government and other systematic formations throughout history. As time passes, people seem to forget what their original intentions were, lost into the void of miscommunication and interpretation. For example, do you really think that colonial americans really believed the same things that modern americans do? With changed ideals and values comes changed belief systems and morals, which oftentimes leads away from the originally intended goals meant for a system such as religion. We've all heard about or read about or even seen corruption of power amongst things such as governmental and religious institutions.

However, the opposite idea also seems to hold true, sometimes creating very horrendous problems of its own. An example of such would be the continuing debate of Creationism versus evolution; once upon a time, much of the civilized world believed Creationism was the only logical way that the world could have come about, but now there seem to be many, many more thoughts on the matter. Even as the people of the world changed, the idea of Creationism seemed to remain the same, despite the growing claims against it. The changes in mindsets as new generations sprung forth brought about a dispute about the matter of how everything began, and yet one of the original beliefs about that same matter seemed to remain unchanged. Perhaps this is just a strong batch of evidence about how stubbornly humans can stick to their beliefs, without considering other possibilites, like I previously mentioned. This kind of discrepency can lead to monumental problems, as you are problem already aware.

But don't get the wrong idea; I'm not saying that Creationism is wrong. I'm merely saying that people should consider possibilities in their entirety before deciding how true or false they are. In my opinion, I think that, as of now, none of the presented ideas about how everything began completely cover the picture like many others seem to believe. Evolution, while it certainly retains a strong support of physical evidence, still has so many holes and unanswered questions; and on that same note, Creationism remains an entirely vague interpretation of the beginning of the world that could be taken in many different ways. And that seems to be an enormous problem for a lot of folks.

Try looking at it this way: essentially, Evolution and Creation are two very different perspectives on one thing. In their most basic terms of analysis and belief structure, they differ so greatly that they oftentimes seem like two totally opposing ideas, but they are still 'perspectives.' Some of you might say, "Well, one of these 'perspectives' has much more evidence of its truth than the other does, Galleon." But I ask you this: what is evidence, really?
By definition, evidence is considered "something that supports a claim or idea to help form a conclusion."
I suppose it really comes down to what you personally consider to be evidence. Evolution almost always relies on physical, tangible evidence such as fossils or historical records. Creationism on the other hand, tends to rely on more metaphysical ideas such as 'faith,' garnering its support from the other ideals illuminated in the other areas in its religion. For example, in Christianity, people tend to believe that because they feel the rest of the values presented by that particular relgion are good, wholesome and desirable things to live by, then the story Christianity presents for the creation of the world must also be true. And really, that's not such a bad way to view something; in fact, it's very natural to believe all areas of one overall topic are true.

Again, I'm not saying Creationism is wrong; that would completely contradict what I've been saying this whole time about considering the possibilites.

However, through a vast network of miscommunication, it seems that many people think that Evolution simply cannot be true because it doesn't explicitly state that God created everything, and at the same time, it seems that many people think Creationsim simply cannot be true because it gives only a crude description of the birth of the planet and all the things in it.

Going back to the perception of evidence, there doesn't seem to be any tangible proof that God exists, does there? But again I ask: what is considered evidence? Is it considered evidence in favor of a certain religion when a drug addict converts to that religion and turns his/her whole life around? Is it considered evidence when doctors can't explain why a woman with terminal cancer is suddenly without sickness? Is it considered evidence when a man with a heavy drinking problem that used to go home to beat his wife and children cleans up his life and devotes himself to God? All these things, as distant as they may seem to you personally, really do happen.

Now, I don't think Evolution is wrong, either. The mounds of scientific evidence supporting it that seem to have no record in religions like Islam, Christianity, and Judaism certainly give it a life of its own. There are tons of questions that religion seems to gloss over. How do dinosaurs fit into the history of the Earth? Where did all these fossilized materials really come from? And so on.

See, there are things to consider on both sides. Did you know that scientists have most recently estimated the age of the universe to be 13.7 billion years old? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe). Another article (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101age.html). But at the same time, the farthest star visible from Earth is a whopping 30 billion light years away, and much of scientific evidence indicates that stars remain infinitely further away than that. From that viewpoint, it's unreasonable to think that the Big Bang really started the entire universe and that there was nothing before it, since light speed is practically unachievable and the absolute longest distance (assuming the Earth to be on one tip of the universe and the farthest star to be at the other) the universe could've become would be about 27-28 billion light years.

So, if you can't already tell, I'm a devout Christian, and I believe that the theory of Evolution has its own merits, too. Personally, I think the Bible isn't meant to give humans insight into the origin of the universe so much as it is meant to give us insight into our own hearts and souls, and I find it a shame that many people simply discard the information within it because it provides a very undescriptive idea about early times in the history of the planet. Nowhere within the Bible does it say that God hates science; in fact, I believe it says that God is an eternal, all-knowing entity, which lends itself to the idea that God is unaffected by the conventional preconceptions of time and space that we humans seem to take for granted. And nowhere within the theory of Evolution or science does it say that God does not exist. :wink:

Dakota
09-01-2006, 12:50 AM
Ok Galleon.

I, also, am a devout christian. But unlike you, I believe the bible cover to cover. I believe that God made the heavens and the earth in 6 days and all that in them is (Genesis 1:1 lawl). I know that the good ol stories like David and Goliath and Jonah and the great fish and the good samaritan are important life lessons and everything, but I believe that a biblical authority is just as (if no more) important. If you believe that teachings Jesus told in the bible are true, but you don't believe that God made the heavens and the earth, that makes the bible nothing more than a motivational book that was written but a bunch of humans.

If you believe that the bible is simply a book that makes people feel good about themselves and that it's not a book that should be taken for things like the origin of the universe (namely, Genesis), what do you say to the realization that Jesus quoted the book of Genesis to be fact? There is a lot of good science in the bible. There's a lot of scientific facts in the bible that scientists didn't learn about until centuries after it was written.

Galleon
09-01-2006, 02:36 AM
I, also, am a devout christian. But unlike you, I believe the bible cover to cover.
Whoa, whoa. If I said anywhere in that last post that I do not believe The Bible as truth, then please point it out to me so I can change it immediately. I am in no way trying to say that I believe The Bible is wrong.

But, like I've previously stated, The Bible is vague with the creation of the Earth. Something can be vague, but still true, you know. And besides, The Bible was released during a time when something like Evolution would've made absolutely no sense to its audience, anyway.
I believe that God made the heavens and the earth in 6 days and all that in them is (Genesis 1:1 lawl).
6 days. Alright, but who's calendar were they using?

As The Bible also states, God is an eternal being that has always existed; it is not unreasonable to think that God is not bound by such limitations of space and time like we humans are. A day for God could be considered very, very different for us mortals. Why should we try to peg such mortal limitations on God, a being without limitations?

Or, he could've really created in six, regular days. Did you know that there was a philosopher by the name of Bertrand Roesseau (I think that's right) who proposed the idea that all of the world could've been created in an instant, already having memories about a past. There's really no way to prove if that's untrue...
If you believe that teachings Jesus told in the bible are true, but you don't believe that God made the heavens and the earth, that makes the bible nothing more than a motivational book that was written but a bunch of humans.
I'm not sure why you say that; I noticed someone else said that as well.

'Only a motivational piece of writing to make people feel good?' I don't know about that. Oftentimes, it seems like The Bible presents readers with difficult choices to make, and many times those choices can have harsh results. 'The road less traveled' usually isn't paved very well.

Of course, if you're referring to how The Bible says to persevere through the hardships in your life, then yeah, that's definitely motivational. But there are more things to The Bible, you know. It deals with the concepts of guilt, shame, hard work; it gives insight into the End Days with the Book of Revalations; it advises individuals on how to live a good life. 'Making you feel better' about your crummy day at work might only be a small thing that the book does, if it even does that for you. It's more than just some book to raise your spirits; it's something that a person can learn from, if willing.
If you believe that the bible is simply a book that makes people feel good about themselves and that it's not a book that should be taken for things like the origin of the universe (namely, Genesis), what do you say to the realization that Jesus quoted the book of Genesis to be fact?
I believe you are referring to where I said:
Personally, I think the Bible isn't meant to give humans insight into the origin of the universe so much as it is meant to give us insight into our own hearts and souls...
As you can see, I didn't say that The Bible should be ignored when it comes to creation; I merely think it's ultimate goal was to help mankind to lead a moral lifestyle, rather than to inform about precisely 'how' God created the world. It is very important to realize that it says God 'did' create the world.

But again, please keep in mind that I'm not saying The Bible is wrong. I don't know how much I need to say that, so I'll say it again; "I believe The Bible is true." Like I said, I'm a devout Christian, so believing The Bible to be false just wouldn't work very well for that criteria. :tongue:
There is a lot of good science in the bible. There's a lot of scientific facts in the bible that scientists didn't learn about until centuries after it was written.
That is very true, and I completely agree with you there. Here (http://www.rinconhosting.net/users/bibletest/articles/biblescience.htm)'s a good article about that.

One more thing that deserves mention is the book's many, many translations. I recently got my hands on a much nicer (not to mention more expensive) version of The Bible, a Tyndale 'Life Application Study Bible,' New Living Translation, and I've gotta say that the difference between it and my old, practically childbook-rendition is quite refreshing. See, if you're more of a technically or logically driven person, then you might be able to appreciate a more extensive copy of the text. Though, I'm certainly not saying that my copy is the best there is, as I'm sure there are plenty of fantastic versions out there.

Surly Professor
09-01-2006, 03:32 AM
Here (http://www.rinconhosting.net/users/bibletest/articles/biblescience.htm)
I dislike this article very much, but it's not my anti-christian agenda again, no no.
It makes me very sad; because you see... mankind is a species with amnesia.
We have known & had to relearn many things many times.
The questions in the article are all things that were more or less common knowledge thousands of years ago (except for #1, which is inaccurate). But because of the multiple darkages we have since gone through, much of that knowledge was destroyed by religious & political fanatics, completely lost to us, and rediscovered by different people much later.


I weep for the lost tomes of Alexandia and all of the thousands of years of human history, great discoveries, great discoverers, and all of the forgotten authors of old.

Kenny_C.002
09-01-2006, 03:59 AM
I had a discussion with my dons a year or so ago about the topic of science and religion, and I think my don pointed out one thing that I think is worth mention: religion is born from scientific thought.

And tell you the truth, I think that statement is true (Dakota, you can walk out the other side of the door right now). Considering that if we never had science to begin with, we would never technically have religion as we know it. Again, remember that there are religions that have gods used to explain the unexplainable (see Egyptian gods such as Isis and Ra, Roman gods, Greek gods, and Norse gods), which is clear evidence that they are trying to think scientifically and logically about something they cannot explain, and came up with the conclusion that a god must exist to control that, thus religion is born.

Dakota
09-01-2006, 08:14 PM
And tell you the truth, I think that statement is true (Dakota, you can walk out the other side of the door right now). Considering that if we never had science to begin with, we would never technically have religion as we know it. Again, remember that there are religions that have gods used to explain the unexplainable (see Egyptian gods such as Isis and Ra, Roman gods, Greek gods, and Norse gods), which is clear evidence that they are trying to think scientifically and logically about something they cannot explain, and came up with the conclusion that a god must exist to control that, thus religion is born.

That's true...

...but they didn't have the bible, they just pulled names and duties out of their ass. And look where the roman mythology religion is now? All but dead. It says in the bible that the bible (and Jesus) will always remain constant and will remain powerful forever. Basically means that not a thing can keep the bible from being taught. I wouldn't believe christianity if it wasn't for the bible.

!CeMAn
09-02-2006, 03:50 AM
That's true...

...but they didn't have the bible, they just pulled names and duties out of their ass. And look where the roman mythology religion is now? All but dead. It says in the bible that the bible (and Jesus) will always remain constant and will remain powerful forever. Basically means that not a thing can keep the bible from being taught. I wouldn't believe christianity if it wasn't for the bible.
How do you know that several thousand years from now, once it's proven that "teh Christ" is not coming back, your own sure- thing won't be regarded as "all but dead"?

The Bible can say what it wants. Fact is, it's religion. Just as it was real as anything for Romans to assign random jobs "out of their asses", it's real enough for humanity to put their faith in a MAN who claimed to be the son of God.
Believe it, cover- to- cover all you want. You weren't there.
You have no witness to theses "miracles".

Faith is nothing but that; FAiTH.
And that, is what religion is all about.

Vampire
09-02-2006, 03:52 AM
How do you know that several thousand years from now, once it's proven that "teh Christ" is not coming back, your own sure- thing won't be regarded as "all but dead"?

The Bible can say what it wants. Fact is, it's religion. Just as it was real as anything for Romans to assign random jobs "out of their asses", it's real enough for humanity to put their faith in a MAN who claimed to be the son of God.
Believe it, cover- to- cover all you want. You weren't there.
You have no witness to theses "miracles".

Faith is nothing but that; FAiTH.
And that, is what religion is all about.
Well put, I applaude (sp) you.
Religeon is what you think happen in this life and in others to come.

RedRoninMan
09-02-2006, 12:56 PM
That's true...

...but they didn't have the bible, they just pulled names and duties out of their ass. And look where the roman mythology religion is now? All but dead. It says in the bible that the bible (and Jesus) will always remain constant and will remain powerful forever.

Sure, as history progressed we humans figered out how foolish things like dog, cat, and bird gods really were. As we evolve as a society our need to rely on silly things like gods decreases. The reason the main religeons you see today still exist is because they all are( at least slightly) believeable since they are associated with humans. Even now though, the amount of athesists(like me) is constsantly increasing because there is no need for false beleifs in our modern world. The way I see it, the only people who follow religeon are the people who: 1)Have been brainwashed by their impending culture and havent stopped to think for themselves or 2)Are afraid of death.
Death brings me to my next point. It along with poverty and other bad living conditions is the real reason why religeon can thrive in one place and die in another. Think about places and times in which religeon has gained power. Lets begin with the middle ages. More than 90% of the serf population was poor and infected with disease.Things couldnt get much worse. Thats why they turned to believing htat life would be better after death.Second, african americans are far more religeos than pretty much any white person you can find. This all began back aroud the civil war. Conditions in slavery were just as bad if not worse than the ones for the mideval serfs. Yet again, impoversed people turn to their all mighty lord to take them away from this world to a better place. Lastly, why dont we try something more recent. The middle east. People there are willing to die for their faith. Who wouldnt in their situation? Children dying in the streets, car bombs going off every other day. Anyone would turn to a false diety in times like that.
Whew... that was a pretty long post:tongue:

Dakota
09-02-2006, 01:39 PM
Red and !Ce...both of you stated your opinions and pushed them off as pure facts.

once it's proven that "teh Christ" is not coming back

I don't think that'll happen.

Fact is, it's religion

Acually it's an instructional book written by God through people. Religion is what popped up after it. Like I've said 7805634752 times before; someone can be religious all their life and still not know anything about the bible.

the amount of athesists(like me) is constsantly increasing

That's true. But it was already said in the bible that in the end times, more and more people would reject God and the bible. And, wow, look at that...more and more people are rejecting the bible.

The way I see it, the only people who follow religeon are the people who: 1)Have been brainwashed by their impending culture and havent stopped to think for themselves or 2)Are afraid of death.

I'm neither.

The middle east

That's a political issue, not a religious issue. If their muslim is the same as the muslim's here in america, why aren't there as many suicide bombers here? At my school, there is a HUGE population of muslims. Somalis and Saudi Arabains mostly. So far, 0% of them have suicide bombed.

Kenny_C.002
09-05-2006, 03:31 PM
Acually it's an instructional book written by God through people. Religion is what popped up after it. Like I've said 7805634752 times before; someone can be religious all their life and still not know anything about the bible.

Understand that the Bible isn't the only source of "instructional books" and it isn't the only "right" religion. Who's to say that Muslims are wrong and Christians are right? One of the major problems of religion is that really everything is dependent on faith. if there is no faith, then there is no religion (clearly seen in aetheism).

That's true. But it was already said in the bible that in the end times, more and more people would reject God and the bible. And, wow, look at that...more and more people are rejecting the bible.

Again, this is just a matter of interpretation. Aetheism is increasing, and we have to understand why this is occuring instead of dwelling off what the Bible says. Again, try to keep in mind that the Bible isn't all encompassing, there are other perfectly reasonable religions aside from Chrisitanity.