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koolcurtis
07-11-2004, 11:36 PM
Reffing wages are WAY TOO HIGH. If you people are only doing 1v1 ohko's and doing it 5 times in a row, then the ref should not deserve that money. Also if someone has 2 mon they need to evolve, they don't use them in 2v2's, they go for the 1v1's for the quick and easy money. This is wrong, in 1 turn its over and then that's just not right to get that much money. Also for instence if 2 people have mon they both need to evolve, they don't battle against eachother with them, they do 5 1v1's with one guys who ohko's them, and another 5 1v1's with the other persons.

I could easily post the reffing wages, but I will not until the system is changed. Compare the reffing wages to grader wages. They shouln't be that far apart but they are, so if you don't want to change the refs/battles money, then u need to change the pkmart and graders and the money handed out from the newsleter, and the money from contest, and whatever else.

I've been talking this over with stripe and we are thinking of ways to change.

I know this is what i want, not what strip has said. He can post his proposal if he wants.
refs wages:
100 per mon for a 1v1
200 per mon for a 2v2
500 per mon for a 3v3 and higher

battles:
cut everything in half or lower

Plus there is no rule on how much money to give refs/battlers in ffa, so i will take the number of people divide by two and round down(not up cause ffa aren't that hard) There needs to be a rule for ffa. Someone else can think that up.

Also for the current wages i have i would like whoever reffed under $20k to keep what they got for 500per mon, and everyone else over will be subject to the wages posted above.

P.S. this will NOT go to trainer court cause i know what all u NOOBS will vote for. You noobs are killing it for everyone. You will hurt ur fellow noobs cause when they start with 1 mon, they won't get as much money now as they used to and make it even harder. And you noobs abuse every rule and are always on the brink of breaking rules. You milk the cow till it's gone dry. Everyone can thank themselves for what is about to happen.

Tamer San
07-12-2004, 10:22 AM
Thats unfair Curtis -.-' most of the battles reffed 1v1 were not OHKO, I had to ref them. Beside, most of us ref do a good job reffing and CALCULATING stuff for them. It isn't our fault if they ask us to ref, it is our job and personaly I would never say no to a person who wants to battle unless I am totaly faked out of feel really tired. And most of the 2v2 are hard, I might agree on the 1v1 thingy but not the 2v2.

Magare
07-12-2004, 12:56 PM
He has a point Tamer. There have been way to many OHKO battles lately. Even if it is a 2v2 :rolleyes: . When someone refs over 20 battles a week, there has to be something wrong.....

mlugia
07-12-2004, 02:48 PM
Curtis does have a point, yes, but he should not take this chance just to skimp out on paying refs. If this was an idea to be considered, it should be taken up way in advance of the payday, which apparently was today, so everyone would have a clear idea of how much they're getting paid. Even worse, by saying ppl making under $20k should get the 500 per battle, you're also saying "Refs, don't do bother doing work, you'd get paid less for more work you do".

I suggest you give out the wages this time round normally, or give EVERYONE the new wage system, no one is above the system, and if you're making 21k and Magare is making 19, there's no reason why you should be taking a paycut to like 12k when Magare keeps the 19k.

On the topic of 1 vs 1 evolution battles, I agree there should be some sort of rule added, but because there was no such rule, no one thought it was wrong to do it, and when I'm asked to ref evolution battles, the easiest way to get it over with is for the non-evolving person to send a strong pokemon for a OHKO.

I suggest the battlers be paid like the current ref system: $500 for every pair of pokemon if you win, and $250 for a loss. Eg: 1 vs 1, winner gets 500. 3 vs 3 winner gets $1500, etc.

As for refs, uh, if you're going to lower the wages, I'd lower it collectively, maybe something like $250 per pair of pokemon, although there is the issue of getting into high numbers and it require extra effort to keep track, so maybe an extra $50 for every extra pair 3v3 or higher? (500 for 2 vs 2, 800 for a 3 vs 3, 1100 for a 4v4, etc.)

My two cents at least, unless you're just trying to gyp the refs who were asked to do the most work by the members of their pay, then I guess I can't say anything.

Magare
07-12-2004, 03:05 PM
I just checked your reffings stats mlugia, and from the last 61 battles you reffed, 55 were 1v1's. Most of them OHKO's. Which if I got it right would get you over 30k. For what? Posting stats? Because thats really all you had to do...

Does that seem right to you?


And the prizes you proposed were tried out once, doesnt work.....

mlugia
07-12-2004, 03:10 PM
But can you really blame me for reffing battles I was asked to ref, and then to find out these battles don't carry any money on the DAY of payday?

If you're gonna say 1 vs 1 OHKO's (whatever that is, last I checked Surf isn't a OHKO move) don't carry money, at least declare it way ahead of time, right? It's horrible to go "oh, I'm not gonna make as much money this month, so I'm gonna lower someone else's salary with some new rule"

As well, if you guys would like to remove the evolution limit or something so refs don't have to ref these evolution battles, wouldn't that just solve everything?

Edit:

No, I'm not especially irked that I won't be making $999,999 this payday. It's a combination of a lack of foresight and this quote

Also for the current wages i have i would like whoever reffed under $20k to keep what they got for 500per mon, and everyone else over will be subject to the wages posted above.

that irks me.

All refs are equal, if the ones who do the most reffing (be it OHKO or not) get a paycut on a new system, why the hell are the other refs not using that same system?

JohtoTrainer
07-12-2004, 05:35 PM
Curtis, Ya know you can't do this on payday change the rule AFTER today I don't care. But we did our reffing there's no rule against it and I hope Jack overrules you. Yea and that little paycut thing is discrimination. Which is against the law :tongue:

Tamer San
07-12-2004, 05:48 PM
YEAH, SHOW THEM WHO IS THE BOSS JACK!!! :goofy:

Anyway, my second thingy here is that you TOLD us this after all the reffing, this rule shouldn't apply on us currently. We should get normal wags this time what ever happens, and next time if any OFFICIAL agreed on this then it would apply next time. But personaly, it won't be easy applying on this...you guys are rarely online, people who really are in need go to us since we are like their only hope for battles. Don't blame us if you don't ref too much and get like 1% of what we get...

Jack of Clovers
07-12-2004, 05:58 PM
well, you see, our rules were never prepared for such activity before. and since we have A LOT of new members, there are a lot more battles going around. but we've never had a problem like this.
i have seen the wages. :eek: and that is quite a lot for only a two week period (for certain people). then i checked out the battle threads, man that's a lot of 1v1 one-hit battles (for certain people).
maybe this incident will only happen this one time. but then again, i don't think so. as the URPG becomes more popular, some things have to change in order to acomidate such activity.

therefore, here's the new rule i propose:
Any battle that is over in one turn, then repeated some more times, will be paid the same as if it were only 1 battle. so if it were 5 one-hit battles in a row, the battlers and ref would get paid for just 1 battle.

the point is, there is way too much money being handed out. either we lower wages and such or raise prices in the Pokemart. but it will probably be both eventually.

on another note reguarding FFA battles, there will be no more. those battles were only for a certain few to handle but now it's out of control. therefore, im cutting off FFA battle from being performed.

~Jack~

JohtoTrainer
07-12-2004, 06:01 PM
ok, Jack I like that idea..but can ytou please tell Curtis to give us the wages :tongue: lol

mlugia
07-12-2004, 06:17 PM
Jack, regarding that new rule, how about setting it to 5 battles per 1000 (for a win), and 500 to the refs for One hit easy KO evolution style battles? Because without a set number, doing 2 would be the same as doing 10, and which ref would want to ref an extra 8 for no cash? :x Although in some respects, it'd be like paying 100 for each evolution style battle, where you send a weak mon against a powerhouse to get killed quickly.

As well, regarding this rule, which I do agree with, will it be applied to this paycheck as well? Also, I propose that it be applied to EVERY ref, not just the ones making more than $20k as of now.

Tamer San
07-12-2004, 06:22 PM
That shouldn't apply on us this time since we have been informed after all this reffing...I think we should go on with the new rule (which I actually liked) from today jack, and Curtis...

PS. I WANT MY WAGS!!! I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR OVER A WEEK!!! :cry: :tongue2:

JohtoTrainer
07-12-2004, 06:24 PM
I don't think it should be implied in this paycheck. Because this rule wasn't told to us so u can't just say on payday "O BTW we've changed the rules" Your boss can't do that at ur job go pick up ur check on payday and ur boss says "O btw we've lowered ur salary" It just shouldn't be done

akdude
07-12-2004, 06:31 PM
I know I'm not a ref...yet....I'm still waiting to take my test...But I think I may have some kind of solution to ur OHKO problem.

Ok. Curt, u're worried about all the OHKO's lately and so is Jack. I, personally, do and don't have a problem with the rule u're makin...and on a pay day...But here's a solution.

Pay everyone their money and then activate the new rule, but differently. Keep the same wages, but if there's a OHKO on a 1 vs. 1 battle then the wage should be cut down to 100 per pkmn for just that battle. I think that this is somewhat reasonable if yall look at it from my POV.

P.S..Plz don't get mad at me for posting.

JohtoTrainer
07-12-2004, 06:38 PM
No we deserve full pay this week then activate the rule. Ak u don't understand what it's like to ref for 2 weeks then not get paid fully what u deserve.

akdude
07-12-2004, 06:43 PM
No we deserve full pay this week then activate the rule. Ak u don't understand what it's like to ref for 2 weeks then not get paid fully what u deserve.

JT...Did u even bother to read what I said? I said PAY THEM THEIR WAGES. I know I don't know what it's like...But I will as soon as I pass my test. All yall deserve yalls pay! Yall worked hard! But I'm only sayin, keep the rules the way they r and if a OHKO happens durin a 1 on 1 battle, the pay for the battle is 100 per pkmn. That's all I'm sayin man.

mlugia
07-12-2004, 09:03 PM
Well, why not have a pay per poke system? If the winning trainer and the loser is paid on how many pairs of pokemon were arranged to be used in taht battle (eg: a 2 vs 2 would be paid more than a 1 vs 1), then it'd make sense for ppl not to battle so many 1 vs 1s, right?

Just a thought.

Magare
07-12-2004, 09:29 PM
Any battle that is over in one turn, then repeated some more times, will be paid the same as if it were only 1 battle. so if it were 5 one-hit battles in a row, the battlers and ref would get paid for just 1 battle.

You could give out reffing wages with this rule... It doesnt concern me, but it does sound fair. And those OHKO battles really need to stop. Its the same story like with multi battles all over again......


And Mana, before you ask for someone to reply to your idea for the third time, read what I replied to you before...

P.S. Jack, read your pm!

JohtoTrainer
07-12-2004, 09:42 PM
But Magare sometimes ohko's happen and we didn't know it would.it's not our fault. It's not like multi-battling because we're actually battling these unlike multis.

koolcurtis
07-12-2004, 10:19 PM
U guys were lucky to get the money for explosion battles, so don't complain and say we didn't know what we were doing. You people aren't THAT stupid. Not like u never though "wow there are a lot a 1v1 battles going on" or "that's another 1v1 battle i reffed today". After the end of ur battles, the posts are like "nidoking vs mareep earquake ohko's marrep" then the next 1v1 is "nidoking vs mareep earquake ohko's marrep again" and the next "nidoking vs mareep earquake ohko's marrep once again" and the next "nidoking vs mareep earquake guess what happens" and so on. You guys cheat the system and think that there was no rule for it, so you should get paid.... You guys don't know there are IMPLIED RULES(rules not stated). Anything you think that can be abused a certain way but not stated in the rules is an IMPLIED RULE. IT IS IMPLIED THAT YOU DON'T CHEAT AND ARE TRUSTED ENOUGH TO NOT ABUSE CURRENT RULES. Before explosion battles there was no rule, but you idiots know ur abusing the system and did it anyways. When u abuse things then the rules come up. If you have commen sense, then you know what your doing is abuse or not. If you find something that there is no rule for, then u all go and do it and then you eventually get it taken away. If a guy named tim takes $5 from work one day nobody would know, but if he does it everyday, he would get caught. When he gets caught he doesn't keep what he stole, he gives it back. You guys have been caught so u don't get ur full wages. I was gonna let everyone under $20k keep what they earn cause they weren't abusing the system like the people over $20k. They seemed to not do the 1v1's all the time like some people, but i guess i'll do it for everyone cause the one's that abuse the system want the people that didn't even do much pay also. You guys can thank them later. Also the battlers should get a payment system just like the refs.
1v1 W200 L100
2v2 W600 L300
3v3 and up W1000 L500

Need something where 3 1v1's don't equal same pay as a single 3v3

Tamer San
07-12-2004, 10:33 PM
I totaly agree that reffs has abused reffing and trainers has abused the 1v1 baattles. But look, that rules should only apply on OHKO battles not every 1v1 battle. Some peopledon't have more than one Pokemon, what should they do? Beside, I don't care for the money, want to take it from me just simply go ahead and do it. I don't think any ref here became a ref for cash, they wanted to become a bigger role in the URPG and helpful and most of them does this for fun. I agree with you now Curtis...after reading mana's reffing book XD

koolcurtis
07-12-2004, 11:01 PM
I also feel sorry for the people with just one mon and that a few people must kill it for all. I say again, don't blame me, blame those people. I also want to change what i posted above. I will not change everyone's wages, just the people who abused the 1v1's. Only they will be subject to the new wages this week and next week everyone will be subject to it. Why should people like raik who reffed 1 battle the whole 2 week which was a 1v1, not deserve his money. Other people will say how do you know who to pick. I will look over what u all did and make a decison on what i see. Then you may argue that this person got his complete wages when u think he shouldn't. When you all here that, you know that person is one that was involved in this. They probly complain that some people got their full paycheck and they didn't. Well news to you, "THEY DIDN'T ABUSE ANYTHING". Also i will not waste my time redoing everyone's wages. You may think how lazy, but u've never done wages. You don't know how long it takes. I don't just look at how many mon used in a battle, but i read the description and the mon used to check on things. No wounder it was easy to make this decision, after seeing 1v1 after 1v1 and ohko after ohko, then maybe u'll see the light. I will not waste my time on people who didn't do anything wrong, and i won't punish them either.

mlugia
07-12-2004, 11:53 PM
Wtf, your reasoning made no sense whatsoever. So if I didn't ref anything but OHKO battles, but only reffed enough for 19k, I get to keep that 19k this week? What kind of reasoning is that? If you're too lazy to tally up everyone's reffing wages, I'm sure someone else would. If someone who made 19k this week got 18k via OHKO battles, he or she should be subject to a pay cut this week as well, no exceptions.

Unless you only want to save your own skin, which then means you're just being selfish and unreasonable.

Edit:

My meaning is: Either you subject everyone to this rule this week, or subject no one to it. If it turns out that none of the ppl making under 20k did these OHKO battles, that's all fine and dandy, but to outright claim that you will pay anyone making 20k and less just because they didn't ref a lot is just unreasonable.

Also, fyi: an implied rule is not a rule. If it's to be a rule, make it a rule. People are to be ruled with an iron fist, or at least a strict set of guidelines. If you use chickenwire instead of metal bars as your fence and the animals escape, you can't say "HEY I HAVE A FENCE ITS IMPLIED YOU SHOULD NOT ESCAPE, ANIMALS" and hope to get away with it.

koolcurtis
07-13-2004, 12:35 AM
i said i will be looking at what eveyone did and will choose certain people to redo their reffing wages. Their is nobody close to 19k in the wages i did before. It's the abusers with extremely high pay in 2 weeks, vs the one's that didn't. You may say this is unfair but what do u know about being fair. And also you can't have a rule for everything. You have to trust that people don't abuse things like you've done. So you can post all u want, it won't get u anywhere. people that don't abuse shouldn't get punished.

Wages are up.

mlugia
07-13-2004, 01:48 AM
Good, now that there's a new system (hey, which one is it, 100 per battle or what?) people would only be evolving pokemon that way, not gain ridiculous amounts of cash that way ^_^

And yes, so long as everyone's paid the same way, then there's absolutely no problem with the new system, no?

Marth
07-13-2004, 08:17 PM
Cutting money in half...Isn't the solution.
They'll just keep refering more.
I'd like to prohibit 1 vs 1 battles, except for people that HAVE only one pokémon.
1000 is way too much for the "effort" of saying a OHKO move. And the ref doesn't need to calculate it either.
I rarely play 1 vs 1, and when I do, it's against a strong opponent, not a pichu.
Marth.

mlugia
07-13-2004, 11:44 PM
I believe the amount now is 100 for a 1 vs 1 (ref) winner gets 200, loser 100. As well, you'd usually have to calculate the first turn to determine whether the battle is an OHKO or not (eg: Chinchou does not faint in 1 hit from Snorlax with Quake, even though it sounds like a no-brainer).

Jack of Clovers
07-14-2004, 01:39 AM
ok, so all 1v1 will be:
winner- $500
loser- $250

that rule is ignored when the battler only has 1 Pokemon (example, someone just started). the rules should also be ignored when it is a 1v1 true battle, meaning a definite battle and not training. if u don't know which it is, go with the new rules just to be sure. it's easier to add money to someone than take away. i'm sure we'll all get it.

all battles posted will be examined from now on and it would help if more people help. i know i should have been but i just don't have time. but now, we need to fix this situation and i'll check every battle when i have time. if i had seen all the ohko battles when they happened, i woulda done something sooner.

refs- you must put a small description of the battle. let us know what happened. one word will not work as your description.

~Jack~

koolcurtis
07-14-2004, 07:27 PM
After thinking about it, I will make the reffing wages $300 per mon instead of the last system i had. its easier for me, and it better

koolcurtis
07-18-2004, 03:20 AM
Also, original money will be given to people with 1 mon. So if they win they get $1,000, and a loss is $500. The other people will get either 200W or 100L. So if someone with multiple mon beats a guy with 1 mon the money given is this- winner gets $100, loser gets $500.

mlugia
07-18-2004, 03:28 AM
Does this also apply to the battles done between the last wages day and now?

If so, I might have to change a lot of my reffing logs >_>

koolcurtis
07-18-2004, 04:34 AM
starting now. Sry for those with 1 mon and had battles