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.:VS:.
11-29-2004, 03:16 PM
Don't click the link if you have heart problems. You won't be able to stop laughing.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/pokemon.html

This site is like, sooooo wrong.

"possession (known or unknown) of occultic records, tapes, books, pictures, charms, tools, games, etc.
seeking or giving consent to occultic power or occultic revelation
fascination with occultic power, occultic revelation, or psychic phenomena, in general
escapism through thrill-seeking, science fiction, soap operas, or some other addicting hobby/activity
fascination with violence, especially violence devoid of justice
meditation on anything other than God's revealed truth
chanting or other cultic/occultic forms of worship "


or



"Conclusions
Pokemon teaches the following concepts/philosophies that are counter to Christianity:

Violence as a means of obtaining power.
Evolution
New Age concepts (reincarnation, psychic power)
The use of occult objects (magic stones) to gain power over your opponent
Continued participation in Pokemon may lead to:

Involvement in the game that leads to psychological addiction such that the game becomes an idol in the life of the child
Involvement in malevolent role playing games (and people associated with them)
Open doors to demonic oppression"


Yes, I know my post is a little too long

boltAge
11-29-2004, 04:11 PM
I'm wondering why don't they just throw in Digimon, Final Fantasy, Golden Sun and all the RPGs which are fantasy stuff, since they all basically do the same thing, evolve/upgrade, stuff and some other stuff. Too lazy to read through the whole pathetic site.

Zenaku
11-29-2004, 04:26 PM
Ha ha... Unfortunately, I've seen many sites with this same garbage. It isn't our fault that Christians, after two millennias, have not yet realised that non-believers exist.

Seriously... I have two great friends; a Jehovahs witness, and a Christian. Both, somewhat, like Pokemon, and both have younger brothers that are hoocked on the games. If it is such a counter to christianity, why are my friends parents not trying to stop them? Why is it that the christian friends father loves playing Fantasy games such as Diablo, Lord of the Rings, and other fantasy based games/movies?

Extremists are too blind, in my honest opinion. They complain that Pokemon corrupts the mind of children: do they do anything to stop stealing? Murders maybe? WAR?! No! Yet they complain about a game that kids all over the planet love! Raik also makes a valid point about them not discriminating other fantasy-based games, like Golden Sun, Final Fantasy, etc.

Note: Personally, I think this would better fit the Discussion board, but whatever.

.:VS:.
11-29-2004, 04:53 PM
www.jesusishitler.com

Says this to me when I enter:





account suspended
Your account has been suspended. We have sent you an email explaining why. This email should also contain information on how you can unsuspend your account.

ashkelon
11-29-2004, 05:48 PM
And when you get tired of those bizarre theories, here's this guy who has bigger boogeymen than pokemon!

Real Reptiles!

http://davidicke.com/

And, yeah, prolly belongs in "other".

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 06:15 PM
I hope you all acutally read through the article, and didn't just skim through it because it represent beliefes adverse to your own.

The author of this article seems to be well read in pokémon, and I find it to be a well written article addressing valid concerns about pokemon. It is true that there are allusions to Shinoism and the occult in pokémon.

Though I disagree with the overall tone of the article, I can understand where the author is coming from. I think that some people take video games too seriously, as well as fear witchcraft almost as they did in Shakespearian England.

Of course the bit about demonic possession is absurd, many valid points are brought up.

Don't trash the article just because you don't hold the same beliefs as the author does. To write such an article must have taken a surmountable amount of research into the Pokémon RPGs, TCG, and animé.


[I also urge mods/gmods/admin to move this to Other Discussion]

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 07:18 PM
I'm not even going to waste my time reading it, there are a million of these crackpots floating around cyberspace, stopping to smack admins of pokemon forums with crosses. :rolleyes:

ashkelon
11-29-2004, 07:56 PM
I hope you all acutally read through the article, and didn't just skim through it because it represent beliefes adverse to your own.[I also urge mods/gmods/admin to move this to Other Discussion]
OK, I will give the author an "E" for effort, and at that rate Dave Icky deserves a doctorate of the absurd. But I do reserve the right to laugh at what I find absurd, especially if the person takes time to warn me of my impending damnation :smile:

After all Dave I just says the Rothschilds and assorted members of skull and bones are gonna ingest my children...

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 08:20 PM
I'm not even going to waste my time reading it, there are a million of these crackpots floating around cyberspace, stopping to smack admins of pokemon forums with crosses. :rolleyes:

That's the kind of ignorance I'm talking about, DP.
:susp: DO you value open-mindedness at all? :ermm:

"To be able to accept the statement and reject the speaker, or, vice versa, is to have an open mind." -S.I. Hayakawa

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 08:25 PM
Depends on the subject. Many people have said that pokemon is worshipping the devil, and thats bull. In this case, its an obvious fact, its a video game, not some cross burning cult.

And in this case, I'm not close minded, he's just wrong. =P

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 08:33 PM
Depends on the subject. Many people have said that pokemon is worshipping the devil, and thats bull. In this case, its an obvious fact, its a video game, not some cross burning cult.

And in this case, I'm not close minded, he's just wrong. =P

If you had actually clicked on the provided link and read the article, you would know that that's not what the article says. It brings up legitimate concerns about pokémon and the occult. Like I said, don't flame about it.

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 08:50 PM
Okay, I read the article, and its worse than I thought. This guy needs therepy, and a lot of it. Putting it this way, I sure hope this guy is on as much crack as he seems like, or else I'm on the highway to hell.

I mean, the site says Harry Potter and Rock music are also things to be concerned about, and I like both.

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 08:56 PM
This guy needs therepy, and a lot of it. Putting it this way, I sure hope this guy is on as much crack as he seems like, or else I'm on the highway to hell.

He needs therapy? Why? Please explain what you mean. I hope you don't mean what I think you do - that he needs therapy for holding beliefs that you fail to comprehend.

Neo Emolga
11-29-2004, 09:04 PM
Well, I wrote a response to that:

To put it frank, Pokémon really doesn’t “teach” anything. There are millions of people out there who watch horror movies with extreme violence and play video games that glorify crime and combat, and to say the least, these forms of entertainment don’t have any impact on their daily lives. Everyone knows killing someone in a video game is a world apart from actually murdering someone in real life. While I do commend you for the fact the article is well written, it’s extremely one sided.

You can claim that Pokémon “teaches” children about the occult and psychic powers, but most kids are smart enough to know these “special powers” are fictional. Even Pokémon themselves are just fictional characters, kids know they’re not real. And come on, what cartoon out there doesn’t have at least some violence? This is cartoon violence, it isn’t real, and kids know that. And when they start to “pretend,” it’s just children at play, something I thought was allowed in society. Should we ban Shakespeare’s plays because they have violence? Should we ban every movie that contains even one minor conflict? Should we ban the entire fiction section of every library just because what goes on in those books isn’t real? If you do that, then you destroy one of mankind’s greatest gifts of all time. The power to imagine and to create. If God and Jesus didn’t want humans to imagine and create their own ideas, then they never would have given us this power. So right now, at this moment, you’re going up against the idea that someone else’s imagination was able to create.

And really now, children carry Pokémon cards, games, and other Pokémon related items because the games are supposed to be fun, and all their friends take it with them as well. Seeing these things at public places where people meet really shouldn’t be a surprise, since that’s where children meet and make new friends. Yes, these forms of entertainment are separate from God and school, and really have no relation whatsoever. But still, do you stop a child from playing with a ball because it has nothing to do with God? Do you jump out of the stands and stop a baseball game because what they’re doing has nothing to do with God? No, of course not. These are leisure activities that people engage in, and there’s nothing wrong with them. And yes, Pokémon, is just like these activities. Children engage in it for pleasure and leisure, and nothing more.


Some people just take things WAY too seriously...

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 09:08 PM
I realize that I'm playing the 'devil's advocate here'



NP, who is suggesting banning pokémon? I remember reading that the author of the article was just cautioning parents about pokémon. Would you react the same way if an article was written similarly cautioning parents of children watching horror/violent movies?

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 09:16 PM
He needs threpy because he overeacts. He takes every little detail and sqeezes it for a connection to cults or whatnot.

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 09:18 PM
He needs threpy because he overeacts. He takes every little detail and sqeezes it for a connection to cults or whatnot.

I disagree; he seemed to explain things logically to me. Please cite a specific hyperbole.

Keeper_of_Light
11-29-2004, 09:29 PM
He needs to lighten up a little bit if you ask me.

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 09:31 PM
Well, it was partially covered by a toolbar I could not remove, but he apparently brings up types, saying they are elementals, which is a belief of the pagans or whoever, but thats just ridiculous, so it has a type, does pokemon cards instruct os to bow down to the god of fire or something? I think not.

FERALIGATR90
11-29-2004, 09:40 PM
I agree with dark pikachu. This guy is saying that pokemon are bad and demonic. Its a game for pete´s sake!

The End
11-29-2004, 09:43 PM
You actually hurt more than you helped, I wouldnt want someone with a signature like that helping me.

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 09:50 PM
']You actually hurt more than you helped, I wouldnt want someone with a signature like that helping me.

*kicks Alex for being mean to a n00b*

DP, so the idea that elements mirrors a Wiccan "or whatever", as you put it, is ridiculous? You don't seem to know much about pagan religions, so you're in no position to say that with any shred of credibility.

And, no, pokémon doesn't tell us to "bow down to a god of fire", but no one ever said that it does. It seems to me that it is you, not the author of the article, that's overreacting.

Neo Emolga
11-29-2004, 10:23 PM
I mean come on, look at the way the guy writes it though. He maybe suggesting to caution parents, but if you read between the lines, it's obvious he hates it with a passion and wouldn't mind seeing it kicked out for good.

Zenaku
11-29-2004, 10:33 PM
I agree, Neo. Also, I must say: the parents of my Jehovahs Witness friend are very religious; they do not allow him to read books, or watch movies that are associated with magic or mythology, or even the fantasy world. He cannot read Harry Potter, has never seen any of the Lord of the Rings, or Matrix trilogy, etc. If Pokemon really is a counter to religious beliefs, then I'm pretty sure his brother wouldn't be able to buy the games.

Note: Feraligatr, please make your sig smaller. My screen is 1280x800 resolution (Widescreen), and my IE has no add-on explorer bars, but your signature still covers the entire thing. Check the Forum Guide in the "Feedback/Questions to webmaster" board to see how big a sig should be.

Agent Orange
11-29-2004, 10:35 PM
Good point, and I know nothing about the Pagans or whatever, and I really don't see why I should, I'm intrested in my own religon, I don't pay much attention to others. Also, the reason I say the god thing is that thats what the author acts like it is. He says something as simple as types is a violation of gods law, but in reality it is not.

If pokemon blatantly said to us: "Worship so and so" he would have a solid base for an argument, at this point, I do not believe his does.

Hoenn Mirror Girl
11-29-2004, 10:53 PM
Okay...
If he's saying that Pokemon is evil with supernatural powers, why not do the same to Sonic and Kirby? No one can run at the speed of sound nor eat huge amounts of food. :dazed:

Neo Emolga
11-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Okay...
If he's saying that Pokemon is evil with supernatural powers, why not do the same to Sonic and Kirby? No one can run at the speed of sound nor eat huge amounts of food. :dazed:

Simply actually. He hates Pokemon and he's specifically targeting it regardless of everything else out there.

Alakazam
11-29-2004, 11:01 PM
Good point, and I know nothing about the Pagans or whatever, and I really don't see why I should, I'm intrested in my own religon, I don't pay much attention to others. Also, the reason I say the god thing is that thats what the author acts like it is. He says something as simple as types is a violation of gods law, but in reality it is not.

If pokemon blatantly said to us: "Worship so and so" he would have a solid base for an argument, at this point, I do not believe his does.

And seeing as you DON'T know much about pagan religions (neither do I, which is why I don't jump to such conclusions), than you have no right to gainsay his claim.

Point to me where he says pokemon types are in violation of God's Law. Stop adding thoughts that just aren't there, DP. You're starting to make a fool of yourself.

You don't have to agree with the author, but I hope you see why he would say such things.

boltAge
11-30-2004, 02:35 AM
Reading through again, I found some stuff interesting.

Firstly, he/she/it isn't precise. Read this: Machoke "Karate chop does 50 damage points". Karate Chop has a base power of 50 damage points, not that it does 50 damage points.

Uhh... I think the author's 'power' and our 'power' means differently or something, blah :rolleyes:

Ohh... So I'm really wondering why are they not listing other games. I think that author probably has a hatred for Pokemon, and secretly plays other fantasy games :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm not a Christian, doesn't have much to do about me. Except that the whole 'violence to win power', 'evolution', 'psychic power' and use of occult stuff is kinda ridiculous, I'm 100% sure 3/4 of the GBA RPG Games have one of the points listed.

And ohh, I just watched Pokemon, that random dude evolved Pikachu with a Thunderstone, so I throw a stone on my brother's head and see if he will evolve. I don't think anybody's that stupid.

Thanatos
11-30-2004, 02:47 AM
I think this article is slightly outdated...

I do not agree with the Author. It is a very biased opinion. Japanese people do not believe in christianity, so first things first, do not blame the japanese for making something that does not affect their religion. It is not occult to the japanese.

What child would honestly believe that pokemon could really help them with real world situations?

It also brings up evolution. As christians so close minded that they can't accept anything other then what God has told them? Someone comes in with a "New Age" idea, and suddenly it is pronounced as the tool of the devil. Reincarnation is not a New Age idea, simply an idea introduced by Buddhism. It is not the tool of the devil, just the ideals of a religion, which for all you know, could be the true path for religious faith...

What about Idols? They say that it will become a "psychological addiction". However, what about shows like American Idol? Is that not a form of worship? I don't see a page about worshipping TV shows, I see a page simply bashing something they dislike.

"Involvement in malevolent role playing games (and people associated with them)". Are they saying all RPG players, including christians, are more tools of the devil? How can you say that? Are christians forced into a life complete boredom, without the freedom to do anything fun?

Overall it is a well written page, and this person has done their homework. However it is incredibly biased, and the underlying message is that Christianity is the only true religion, which makes it seem like all religions are lies and slander. Each religion has been around for many thousands of years, and who these days can say exactly what is accurate?

Alakazam
11-30-2004, 02:55 AM
I feel its necessary to reiterate that I completely disagree with the author of the article, but I just think that he deserves credit for writing a decent article.

Of course its biased towards Christianity...it's written to Chrisitan parents. That doesm't debase the article.

Thanatos
11-30-2004, 02:57 AM
Yes, it is a well written article, but still inaccurate...

Alakazam
11-30-2004, 02:58 AM
Yes, it is a well written article, but still inaccurate...

What's inaccurate about it? The only thing we don't like about it are the opinions presented.

Thanatos
11-30-2004, 03:04 AM
It's inaccurate because as far as I know, there are no children now with the occult who are pokemon fans

mlugia
11-30-2004, 07:48 PM
As far as the quality goes, he did indeed write a decent article. However, he had quite a few points that are, well, just very strange. While he's saying Pokemon may lead to some kind of demonic worshipping, I find extreme christianity even more harmful, since it's technically occult worshipping, cept you're worshipping this "holy" thing instead of an "evil" thing. I mean, who knows, maybe the "holy" thing would end up like the fairy in Kaitou Jeanne (or whatever that manga was), where the good was the bad, and vice versa.

While his views are incredible one sided, you have to remember he did disclaimer it. "If you are not christian, this article does not apply to you."

Keep that in mind.

HoennCallum
11-30-2004, 09:05 PM
Yes I agree. This peice is completly bias. It is just a Bunch of assertions. :sleepy:

FinalThunder
11-30-2004, 10:31 PM
Pokemon digimon yugioh and other games and tv shows are fine unless you go over board with them like become a freak at the age of 16.

Matthew
12-01-2004, 03:34 AM
Heh.... I never expected to post in this thread, but something about this article irks me.... It is totally one-sided. Now it is my time to opiniate upon this matter :devious:.

First thing is first, I respect this author, solely because he has done his homework, and he has actually researched his facts... but he turned those facts into opinion, defeating the purpose of the article.

He goes on about how Pokemon goes against everything that Christianity is against. I am now going to go through his article and comment on each of his main points.

Much of its character seems to come from Shinto (the traditional religion of Japan), Buddhism, Hinduism, other Eastern religions

Of course it is going to contain influences from the creators culture... it isn't entirely their fault that they worship a diffrent religion than Christianity. If a Christian group were to create a video game, or any form of entertainment.... I am fully certain that they are going to att subtle occults that will be influenced by the Christianity. It is human nature to create things influenced by one's culture, beliefs, and enviroment.


New Age concepts abound in the Pokemon cards.2 Each Pokemon is a certain "type," which describes their "energy."

Christian's too beleive in a source of "energy," that being the Body, The Christ, and the Holy Spirit... the Holy Trinity. You can't criticize another for having a diffrent "energy" source than your own. That is discriminating, an action that is frowned upon in today's society.

Many of the 150 Pokemons use violence to conquer other Pokemons.

Don't you remember quite some Centuries ago when their were Crusades and wars going on to convert a people into the beleif of Christianity... again.... it is foolish to criticize what Chritianity did so many years ago.

Other Pokemons "evolve" through the use of "stones" (thunder, water, moon, fire, and leaf) which are items used to summon powers (the origin of these "powers" is not stated, but they are not from God).4 Training cards also include those that use "potion" and "super potion" to magically heal your damaged Pokemon fighters.

What happens when a holy person devouts their life helping those in need, or doing good deeds in the eyes of the Christian/Catholic religion? They are sainted by the power of God.... If you want to get technical, they are evolving into a more powerful being. Again, don''t criticize that which your religion did thousands of years ago. Jesus Christ had the power to heal those who were injured.... you know, those things called miracle....

...is teaching a kind of reincarnation

Evolution is being used correctly. You must realize that evolution is a process in which a species 'changes' in order to adapt to a certain situation, becoming stronger. In a sense, pokemon do evolve. Reincarnation is the process of becoming a new life after death. Do pokemon die in order to become a new form?

"I will travel across the land
Searching far and wide
Each Pokemon to understand
The power that's inside.
Gotta catch them all!"

The words above are from the Pokemon song that is sung at the end of the television program. Children are being encouraged to tap into the power of the Pokemon cards.

The 'power' is refeerring to strength, hope, beleif, and the love which one holds in order to understand their partner. Don't criticize this... as usual. Doesn't Christianity/Catholosicm preach that The Holy Trinity lives within you, and that Jesus lives in our hearts? Bah...

Further instruction is given at the official Pokemon card site (Wizards of the Coast):

"Carry your Pokemon with you, and you're ready for anything! You've got the power in your hands, so use it!"5

Many children are taking this instruction to heart and literally carry their Pokemon cards with them everywhere. We are even seeing these card appearing at our church and Christian school

Don't devoted Christians carry their bibles with them? If you see a mass of children carry bibles into your schools.... should you ban that? No.... just because it is something that you 'beleive' to be against your religion, in this case it is not, they have a right to hold in their possesion that which does not have the potential to hurt someone physically.

Children are being encouraged to tap into supernatural power instead of the power given by God.6 They are told that the more cards they collect, the more power they will have. Many children are completely addicted to the cards and spend all of their free time playing with them. If nothing else, Pokemon has become an idol in their lives - being more important to them than God.

Isn't God a supernatural Power? If her were not super natural.... he would live in physical form on this Earth.... Um.... power is reffering to the strength of the cards... not the non-existant persuassion that the children should go against the Christian religion and worship the devil, or Pagan gods. And many people like you are addicted to religion, devoting their time to negatively comment a simple leisure activity that in reality, is nothing but that. It is a game... nothing more than that. Why aren't you criticising Football...or any other sport for that matter, or goverment? I beleive that is more important to a hell of a lot more people than Pokemon is....


The Bible's teaching is clear about being involved in occultic activities. We are told not to become involved in sorcery or divination or consult with mediums or spiritists.8 The high penalty (death) for engaging in sorcery indicates the seriousness of this sin in the eyes of God.9

Who ever said Pokemon is sorcery? It's the 21st century buddy, punishment by death for a diffrent belief is pretty much illegal in most places.... and don't take the bible so literally....

While Pokemon continues to gain popularity, its creators will continue to introduce new ways to become a Pokemon "Master." At some point, in order to maintain interest in the game, it will become necessary to add new features/characters

Yes, and as time goes by, things are added to anything to keep the interest of a group of people... look at the Bible for instance... new stories and such was added as time went on. Look at the New testament for example....

My prediction is that this game will add more New Age features

Of course it will.... We live in the 21st century as previously stated... a New age... I don't think we are going to add Old age ideals into today's media.... many of the ideals back then are today, considered immoral and such.

Another threat to children who play with Pokemon and other role playing games is the tendency to become involved in more serious forms of role playing games, such as Doom

Yes... and those who often practice Chritianity become more involved in it too... its life... get over it. It isn't the persons fault that other games interest them.... it isn't a threat at all... that is like saying that somebody who starts to read the Bible wants to read the rest of it because it interests them is a threat.

Pokemon teaches the following concepts/philosophies that are counter to Christianity:

1. Violence as a means of obtaining power.
2. Evolution
3. New Age concepts (reincarnation, psychic power)
4. The use of occult objects (magic stones) to gain power over your opponent

1. I already commented on it back up a ways.
2. It's life.... get over it. We are going to eventually change over time as well... we can't do anything about it... only the strongest survive.
3. Eh... reincarnation is not a new age concept.... they beleived it in Bhuddism long ago.... not a new age concept at all...
4. Hmmm.... let's see.... don't people pray to gain power and strength to go on? Should we stop praying because it gives us power? No...

Continued participation in Pokemon may lead to:

1. Involvement in the game that leads to psychological addiction such that the game becomes an idol in the life of the child
2. Involvement in malevolent role playing games (and people associated with them)
3. Open doors to demonic oppression

1. And what if a child's involvment in Christianity leads to a psychological addiction to your religion, having God as an idol? (*ahem ahem* :rolleyes: )
2. What is wrong with that?
3. No.... it is just a game.... Pokemon has nothing to do with demonic oppresion... You can't just claim that.... that is being arrogant and ignorant.

f your child has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, I recommend that he be given the facts about Pokemon and what the Bible says about participating in sorcery.

And your child should be shown the facts of The Bible, which in a way you make it sound, is nothing more than close-mindedness and total arrogance.

--------

Wow... that was alot... lol. These are my opinions... and some of the facts I presented are from my own knowledge... which isn't that large :goofy:

.:VS:.
12-01-2004, 12:18 PM
I mean, the site says Harry Potter and Rock music are also things to be concerned about, and I like both.

Me too.

Oh, and Neo Pikachu seems greatly more intelligent that me or DP.

Leave the author alone. Thats his opinion, though its stupid, its his opinion.

.:VS:.
12-01-2004, 12:27 PM
...to magically heal your damaged Pokemon fighters.
"magically", "damaged", "fighters"??? lol
It's not magic, Pokemon are living creatures, so they're HURT, and Pokemon are not actually fighters.

Matthew
12-01-2004, 01:43 PM
Me too.

Oh, and Neo Pikachu seems greatly more intelligent that me or DP.

Leave the author alone. Thats his opinion, though its stupid, its his opinion.


...to magically heal your damaged Pokemon fighters.
"magically", "damaged", "fighters"??? lol
It's not magic, Pokemon are living creatures, so they're HURT, and Pokemon are not actually fighters.

Was there a need to double post? Heh.... and they aren't magcally healed... it is a chemical potion that will heal most of your mons wounds.... nothing to do with magic XD.

Alakazam
12-01-2004, 01:58 PM
Some people have a hard time denoting the line between science and magic, lol >_<

ashkelon
12-01-2004, 02:17 PM
lol

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. "

Arthur C Clarke

Always makes me think of "A Conneticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court". It's hell to run out of matches at the wrong time. :crackup:

Actually guys, I am wiccan, and grew up in a household that combined both the old religion and christianity. That's a pretty foreign idea for christians, since most of them listen to "I the lord your God am a jealous God." and don't think there's room for more than one god in a person's life. The old religion teaches us there are many gods, all with their own personalities and agendas. You get a less biased and more humorous take on the god(s), although no less serious, when you see them that way.

My religion also teaches that there is no great univesal "Truth" (with a capital T), but many, many, truths with small "t"s. And you have to find them on your own, which is hard work, especially when circumstances shift and change.

I see this writer's view as a product of his attachment to a single god, and a single god's viewpoint. Therefore it's biased, as is any narrow view. Just as I believe that no single person's world-view is correct (there's a reason there's 12 jurours, huh?), I'd not think any god's is either. Like I said, they all have their own agendas.

Ah, and before anybody spouts that a pagan can't be moral, I am a crude but highly moral person. The first and greatest law is "Do as you will and harm none", and the second is "what you do comes back to you three times over" (which is pretty good incentive in my book).

But that's another discussion...

Herp
07-14-2005, 02:56 AM
Old Europe [before the age of discovery] was very literal with the bible. Well, the powerful people were to manipulate the residents of old europe to do what the powerful people wanted. They were VERY insulting to god [im nonreligious, so im talking in a christians eyes] with VERY believable lies that were made believable simply with literallness. Couold this guy be doing that o.0
And this guys a dork, its an opinion, but a gay one. He is extremely obsessed with being against modern times [i sort of am, but not against the things (like this) that have nothing wrong with them] I am very intrigued by this thread, and enjoyed reading through it. Your all right about Him being wrong though :susp:

Hoenn Mirror Girl
07-14-2005, 04:08 AM
Don't revive old threads.

*Locked.