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SoliX
08-29-2007, 06:23 AM
Just looking for any ideas, preferences, input, etc.. Here we go!
(Note: Hidden Powers are always cool if they happen naturally, however I won't breed just for a type hidden power I want. Point being, I won't use any HP's so don't post em, thanks!)

Blissey @ Calm 252 HP, 252 SDef, 6 Def
@ Lefties
Softboiled
Stealth Rock
SToss
TWave

Standard agressive Blissey w/ Stealth Rock instead of aroma/healbell.

Grachomp @ Jolly 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 Hp
@Life Orb?
Swords Dance
Fire Fang
EQ
Dragon Claw

Again, standard sweeper.

Lucario @ Jolly/Adamant 252 Atk , 252 Spd, 6 Hp
@Selac/Leichi
Extreme Speed
EQ
Reversal
Close Combat/Crunch/Swords Dance

Endeavor>QA counter, once finished countering, can be used as a sweeper, or sweeper straight out the bat.

Gengar @ Modest 252 SAtk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
@Focus Sash
Tbolt
Shadow Ball
Energy Ball
Destiny Bond

Sweep, then sacrifice when he's finished.

-OR-

Gengar @ Modest 252 SAtk, 252 Spd, 6 Hp
@Wide Lens
Hypnosis
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Tbolt

Sweeper w/ accurate focus blast and hypnosis.

Dusknoir @ Impish 252 Hp, 252 Def, 6 SDef
@Lefties
WoW/Toxic
NightShade/Shadow Sneak
Pain Split/Mean Look
Confuse Ray

My Def Wall, pretty standard, could use shadow sneak to actually put pain split to use.

Togekiss @ Timid 252 SAtk, 252 Spd, 6 Hp
@Choice Specs/Wise Glasses/King's Rock (Not sure if it's hax)
Air Slash
Flamethrower/Twave
Aura Sphere
Nasty Plot/Twave

Togekiss to sweep, Air Slash to flinch.

My team seems a little defensively weak, but not so sure, seems pretty solid, imo. So that's all folks, post some revisions, ideas, etc. Thanks in Advance!

-SoliX
:wink:

ronjocox
08-29-2007, 06:36 AM
Blissey needs Bold, 252 DEF 252 HP 6 SP DEF.

Gold Groudon
08-29-2007, 07:39 AM
This is pretty stupid but wouldnt it be bad to have life orb and swords dance cause it just causes damage

Cybernetic Ghost
08-29-2007, 07:40 AM
Blissey needs Bold, 252 DEF 252 HP 6 SP DEF.

Blissey doesn't NEED Bold. I'll agree, it needs 252 Def regardless, but it doesn't need bold depending on the set, and it doesn't need 252 HP depending on the set, also. Although it is generally the best thing to run, if your running CMBliss, Modest works well also. The difference in defense is 130 to 119 I believe?

Anyways, Aeroma over Twave on Bliss if you insist on running SR on it, although something like Swampert runs SR better, and you could always replace Dusknoir for Swampert, as Swamp can take a hit well. Definatly run 252 Def EVs on Bliss though. Even if its a special wall, its going to be taking physical hits.


Percentage-wise, 130 into 56 is approximately 232%. That means that investing full EVs and personality has increased your physical defense by 2.3x. Without personality, 119 into 56 is approximately 212%. That is only 2.1x. This means that her personality increases her defense by a nice 20%.

Now, let's do the same thing with Blissey's special defense. Her minimum is 306. Now, I know you're not doing this, but if you have max EVs +personality for her special defense this is what happens. 405 into 306 percentage-wise is approximately 132% which increases her ability to take special hits by 1.3x. Without personality it would be 369. 369 into 306 percentage-wise would be approximately 120% which increases her ability to take special hits by 1.2x.

This means that a +SDef personality increases her ability to take special hits by only 10%, while a +Def personality increases her ability to take physical hits by 20%.

So yeah. Basically, Bliss needs 252 Def EVs. Bold and Modest is a personal prefrence. On CMBliss, I'd run Modest. On everything else, I'd probably run Bold. Calm is never really worth running over Bold on Bliss.

Lucario (Adamant) @ Choice Band
252 Atk/252 Spd
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Counter

^ My favorite set, probably.

Gengar (Timid) @ Leftovers/Wide Lens/Life Orb
252 Spd/252 SpAtk
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

(Really not a fan of FB, but eh)
OR

Gengar (Hasty) @ Leftovers/Life Orb
252 Spd/252 SpAtk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hypnosis
- Explosion

ronjocox
08-29-2007, 07:42 AM
Blissey doesn't NEED Bold. I'll agree, it needs 252 Def regardless, but it doesn't need bold depending on the set, and it doesn't need 252 HP depending on the set, also. Although it is generally the best thing to run, if your running CMBliss, Modest works well also. The difference in defense is 130 to 119 I believe?



5% Difference can change lots of things a 2hko into a 3hko.

Cybernetic Ghost
08-29-2007, 07:54 AM
5% Difference can change lots of things a 2hko into a 3hko.

Show me multiple situations where Bliss with 119 def gets 2HKO'd while Bliss with 130 def gets 3HKO'd, where it dosn't just come down to the random factor, if that 11 diffrence can change "lots" of things to a 2HKO. If a Bliss with 11 less def gets 2HKO'd while the other could survive it, then either both COULD be 2HKO'd by it, or the 119 Bliss COULD survive it, and its just down to random numbers that have to be taken into account.

Just because everyone runs Bold Bliss doesn't mean its needed. Its generally better, but other things can work fine.

This is pretty stupid but wouldnt it be bad to have life orb and swords dance cause it just causes damage

You only take the recoil if you cause damage.

ronjocox
08-29-2007, 08:02 AM
Well, here's one.

Adamant 252/252 Dugtrio CB-Earthquake vs 252/252 Bold Blissey
Damage: 49.58% - 58.26%

Same Dugtrio, Same item, same move vs 252/252 Neutral Nature Blissey
Damage: 54.06% - 63.59%

CBMence's Dragon Claw vs Bold max Def/148 Hp EV Blissey: 49-57%
vs Calm Blissey: 53-62%

Life orb'd Dugtrio:
Against Bold 252/252 Damage: 43.00% - 50.70% (never a 2HKO unless there isn't Leftovers as a factor)
Against Neutral 252/252 Damage: 47.06% - 55.32%

There's some. Mainly, Dugtrio.

Cybernetic Ghost
08-29-2007, 08:07 AM
Well, here's one.

Adamant 252/252 Dugtrio CB-Earthquake vs 252/252 Bold Blissey
Damage: 49.58% - 58.26%

Same Dugtrio, Same item, same move vs 252/252 Neutral Nature Blissey
Damage: 54.06% - 63.59%

CBMence's Dragon Claw vs Bold max Def/148 Hp EV Blissey: 49-57%
vs Calm Blissey: 53-62%

Life orb'd Dugtrio:
Against Bold 252/252 Damage: 43.00% - 50.70% (never a 2HKO unless there isn't Leftovers as a factor)
Against Neutral 252/252 Damage: 47.06% - 55.32%

There's some. Mainly, Dugtrio.

As I said then. In any situation where theres the Neutral nature can be 2HKO'd, so can the Bold. Even then, I havn't seen a single physical Salamence this gen, or a Dugtrio at all, for that matter. And for the last one, correct me if im wrong, but don't leftovers heal 6%? If so, then Neutral Bliss wouldn't die to Life Orb Dugtrio either.

SoliX
08-30-2007, 03:40 AM
Well, my intentions were pure Special Wall for Bliss, but I can arrange something to survive 2HKO's from physicals. How's my Dusknoir? I kinda just did what I could and threw him in.. any other suggestions for a physical wall? And ideas for another possible sweeper than Kiss? BTW Cyber, Good looking on the Lucario set, I'll give that a whirl.

Cybernetic Ghost
08-30-2007, 03:55 AM
Well, my intentions were pure Special Wall for Bliss, but I can arrange something to survive 2HKO's from physicals. How's my Dusknoir? I kinda just did what I could and threw him in.. any other suggestions for a physical wall? And ideas for another possible sweeper than Kiss? BTW Cyber, Good looking on the Lucario set, I'll give that a whirl.


Dusknoir (Impish) @ Leftovers
252 Hp/156 Def/96 SpDef
- Will-o-Wisp
- Pain Split
- TPunch
- Ice Punch/Confuse Ray

Swampert (Relaxed) @ Leftovers
240 HP / 212 Def / 56 SpAtk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

OR

Gyarados (Adamant) @ Leftovers
212 HP/180 Def/100 Spd/16 Atk
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall/Ice Fang
- Earthquake/Stone Edge

^Sets from the discusion page for both pokemon on Smogon.