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View Full Version : Legends: The Final Discussion.


Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 04:58 AM
Why are so many non-uber legends banned here at PE2K??? At other sites like Smogon (who has far more experienced battler than PE2K) and Marriland, these non-uber Legends are allowed. The pokemon I speak of are:
Zapdos
Articuno
Moltres
Entei
Raikou
Suicune
Regirock
Regice
Registee
Mesprit
Azelf
Uxie
More Debatable:
Cresselia
Heatran

The first list of pokemon have a base stat total of BELOW 600. The last two are AT 600. If you look at some of these EXTREMELY OU pokemon, you will notice something about their base stat totals:
Dragonite
Metagross
Salamence
Garchomp

THEY ARE ALL AT 600!!!! AND TAKE A LOOKSIE AT THIS ONES STATS:
TYRANITAR
At first, you think "Hey, its at 600 too!" But you must also realize that with the new Special defense boost that sandstorm gives to rock types, its BST surpasses 600.


Please post your opinions. Here is another link that should give you more reason to accept these pokemon:
http://www.marriland.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=78182


Approval List:
Me
Everyone at Smogon
Hardcore Ravenclaw
T r I p L e X
BrettMeeink
Diarago
ronjocox
ShiniesRule1012
butterfree
RonRayGunX3
se7en
Hyper Blaze

Shade
09-11-2007, 04:58 AM
I'm guessing this should be in another section maybe

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 04:59 AM
I'm guessing this should be in another section maybe
No. this concerns the battling of PE2K, thus it should be here.

Hardcore Ravenclaw
09-11-2007, 05:00 AM
I agree with Ace. I battle on other sites that allow legends and I see the base 600s a lot more than legends

Shade
09-11-2007, 05:01 AM
Oh maybe I should have read it. lol.

I don't like legends, a pokemon of mine (not saying wh) Ko'd a Jirachi ater 2 swords dance, so I ont like legdnaries.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 05:03 AM
I agree with Ace. I battle on other sites that allow legends and I see the base 600s a lot more than legends
thank you lol.
Oh maybe I should have read it. lol.

I don't like legends, a pokemon of mine (not saying wh) Ko'd a Jirachi ater 2 swords dance, so I ont like legdnaries.
yea maybe you should...
That prooves my point that legends aren't unbeatable and should be allowed in pe2k.

Shade
09-11-2007, 05:04 AM
I dont like them though, they are too cheap, like we should have tourneys wih them or soemthing, but idk, no legdnaries.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 05:06 AM
I dont like them though, they are too cheap, like we should have tourneys wih them or soemthing, but idk, no legdnaries.
See, you aren't giving anything to back up your argument other than "they're cheap." Tell me, do you use any of the 600 OU Legal pokemon I listed above? THOSE are what are cheap.

Hardcore Ravenclaw
09-11-2007, 05:06 AM
The reason why those guys arent uber is simple they are outclassed by other OUs. Tyranitar is probaly the closet thing to uber in OUs. Its stats are massive and so is its movepool


That is why I allow them in my clan

Ulazlo
09-11-2007, 05:06 AM
i don't mind if someone uses legends. it's not really a big deal as long as it isn't uber. i prefer not using them but i could care less if someone else does. i've come to dislike OU's now and i'm working on a UU/BL team to replace my current team which has some OU's in it.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 05:09 AM
i don't mind if someone uses legends. it's not really a big deal as long as it isn't uber. i prefer not using them but i could care less if someone else does. i've come to dislike OU's now and i'm working on a UU/BL team to replace my current team which has some OU's in it.
yea, same here. I moved away from OU a while back.
The reason why those guys arent uber is simple they are outclassed by other OUs. Tyranitar is probaly the closet thing to uber in OUs. Its stats are massive and so is its movepool


That is why I allow them in my clan
The problem with that is that if you're in a clan war, you won't be able to use them. I'm trying to get other clan leaders to allow this. I'll make an approval list and add you to it.

Hardcore Ravenclaw
09-11-2007, 05:12 AM
Yeah sounds good. Banning legends doesnt make sense

T r I p L e x
09-11-2007, 05:14 AM
i think they should be allowed in OU because of the fact that Ace said earlier.

they have the same 600 stats as the 4 Big guys. i mean its not difficult to take them down. they are the same as any other OU guy. i think they should be allowed.

brettmeeink
09-11-2007, 05:22 AM
Atta kid Ace. I completely agree I see so many Garchomps and T-Tars and, they are allowed everywhere but, when one non-uber legend wants to battle it's a huge no-no. People need to stop being ignorant and realize that they are weaker then some OUs just being legends doesn't make them uber. I say all non-uber legendaries should be allowed from here on out.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 05:24 AM
i think they should be allowed in OU because of the fact that Ace said earlier.

they have the same 600 stats as the 4 Big guys. i mean its not difficult to take them down. they are the same as any other OU guy. i think they should be allowed.
Atta kid Ace. I completely agree I see so many Garchomps and T-Tars and, they are allowed everywhere but, when one non-uber legend wants to battle it's a huge no-no. People need to stop being ignorant and realize that they are weaker then some OUs just being legends doesn't make them uber. I say all non-uber legendaries should be allowed from here on out.
Alright, i'll add both of you to the agree list.

-Holland-
09-11-2007, 05:45 AM
I agree with this. All Pokemon below the super-powerful ones were made to battle each other, and they respectively have their own weaknesses, so people just like to complain because they suck at this game, really.

NinjaDuelist
09-11-2007, 05:46 AM
I belive the likes of Moltres, Regice and Entei should be able to fight alongside Pokemon like Breloom and Steelix, as they aren't that broken compared to Kyogre and Dialga. I think the trios are over-hyped.

Rocco147
09-11-2007, 05:56 AM
Alright, i'll add both of you to the agree list.
i disagree.. honestly we have a great battling style here.
why trash our uniqueness.
if legends werent banned.
you would probably see at least one in every team.
it takes the fun out of the game aswell
what we should do is take out legends plus OU pokemon
i would love to see more sycthers, golducks, ninetales then see starmies, garchomps, gengars, arcanines all those other over used pokemon

Hardcore Ravenclaw
09-11-2007, 05:59 AM
i disagree.. honestly we have a great battling style here.
why trash our uniqueness.
if legends werent banned.
you would probably see at least one in every team.
it takes the fun out of the game aswell
what we should do is take out legends plus OU pokemon
i would love to see more sycthers, golducks, ninetales then see starmies, garchomps, gengars, arcanines all those other over used pokemon

If we ban legends we might as well ban the base 600s. Also newbs will use legends but you can still win without legends and base 600s. Its called be unique. Also banning stuff just leads to more banning stuff. Banning the base 600s cause new Pokemon to fill there spot then we ban them and the cycle continues.

brettmeeink
09-11-2007, 06:09 AM
If you don't want to play OU get a BL team together start a BL team or something. OU's are always going to be around since they are the strongest banning other strong pokemon is crazy. I doubt legends will be overused on every team. I battle on 3 other sites where legends are allowed and I rarely see them and, when I do they are no more difficult then a regular. If anything they are easier since you can't breed them for good ivs or a good nature.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 06:45 AM
I agree with this. All Pokemon below the super-powerful ones were made to battle each other, and they respectively have their own weaknesses, so people just like to complain because they suck at this game, really.
i wouldn't be that harsh lol, but probably true.
I belive the likes of Moltres, Regice and Entei should be able to fight alongside Pokemon like Breloom and Steelix, as they aren't that broken compared to Kyogre and Dialga. I think the trios are over-hyped.
yea i agree.
i disagree.. honestly we have a great battling style here.
why trash our uniqueness.
if legends werent banned.
you would probably see at least one in every team.
it takes the fun out of the game aswell
what we should do is take out legends plus OU pokemon
i would love to see more sycthers, golducks, ninetales then see starmies, garchomps, gengars, arcanines all those other over used pokemon
This is not meant to promote the use of Legendaries, simply to unbann them. I dont use legends on my teams but i don't mind facing them. i think it just adds to the fun of the game.
If we ban legends we might as well ban the base 600s. Also newbs will use legends but you can still win without legends and base 600s. Its called be unique. Also banning stuff just leads to more banning stuff. Banning the base 600s cause new Pokemon to fill there spot then we ban them and the cycle continues.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
If you don't want to play OU get a BL team together start a BL team or something. OU's are always going to be around since they are the strongest banning other strong pokemon is crazy. I doubt legends will be overused on every team. I battle on 3 other sites where legends are allowed and I rarely see them and, when I do they are no more difficult then a regular. If anything they are easier since you can't breed them for good ivs or a good nature.
Yea, legends are hard to get high stats on...

ronjocox
09-11-2007, 02:58 PM
I have always agreed to un-ban no uber legends, I use to use one.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 03:04 PM
Alright, i've added ronjocox and Diarago onto the agree list. We need some more clan leaders to join though, just me and Hardcore Ravenclaw isn't enough...

ronjocox
09-11-2007, 03:05 PM
T=Tar has 650 Base stats in sandstorm, BTW.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 03:19 PM
T=Tar has 650 Base stats in sandstorm, BTW.
yea that was the point i was making. Thanks for the exact stats.

Argento
09-11-2007, 03:21 PM
My opinion is we should base the metagame on numbers instead of tiers. For instance, if you give each team a restriction of 2500 Base Stats total or even less, it would mean more UU Pokemon could see the light of day, and even if you did use a legend or powerful OU or two, you still could, because you'd have weaker Pokemon on your team to make up for it.

But...not many people like that idea.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 03:25 PM
My opinion is we should base the metagame on numbers instead of tiers. For instance, if you give each team a restriction of 2500 Base Stats total or even less, it would mean more UU Pokemon could see the light of day, and even if you did use a legend or powerful OU or two, you still could, because you'd have weaker Pokemon on your team to make up for it.

But...not many people like that idea.

I honestly don't minde facing the SkarmBlissChompMenceTarGar team with my BL's. For example, Pinsir is a perfect UU version of Heracross. And its ability is alot cooler. EARTHQUAKE THAT GENGAR!!!! And there are PLENTY of walls to take SkarmBliss's place and be just as effective. Like a good team would be Weezing and Umbreon. You can switch Umbreon on Weezing's Psychic weakness and switch Weezing on all earthquakes. I could go all day with this...

What i'm saying is that I don't DISLIKE your idea, but i'm not sure its right for this forum.

NinjaDuelist
09-11-2007, 05:36 PM
I honestly don't minde facing the SkarmBlissChompMenceTarGar team with my BL's. For example, Pinsir is a perfect UU version of Heracross. And its ability is alot cooler. EARTHQUAKE THAT GENGAR!!!! And there are PLENTY of walls to take SkarmBliss's place and be just as effective. Like a good team would be Weezing and Umbreon. You can switch Umbreon on Weezing's Psychic weakness and switch Weezing on all earthquakes. I could go all day with this...

What i'm saying is that I don't DISLIKE your idea, but i'm not sure its right for this forum.

EQ on Gengar? Someone forgot that Gengar has the ability "Levitate". :silenced:

Darkneos
09-11-2007, 10:48 PM
well some of the legends that you stated have more power that an ev trained alakazam
thats why people dont use them
not to metion their killer moves

RonRaygunX3
09-11-2007, 11:01 PM
I completley agree with you Ace. And, the reason Tyranitar isn't an Uber is because it has very bad typing. Rock/Dark= Lots of weaknesses.

butterfree
09-11-2007, 11:08 PM
Ok I say Garchomp,Salamance, and Dragonite Our Non-Uber. They Can Be Easily Killed.
T-Tar Possible A Uber But Again Hes Easy To Kill. I Do Kinda Agree To You Ace.

SuperT
09-11-2007, 11:09 PM
I completley agree with you Ace. And, the reason Tyranitar isn't an Uber is because it has very bad typing. Rock/Dark= Lots of weaknesses.

Don't forget it's lack of speed.

Ace123456789
09-11-2007, 11:54 PM
EQ on Gengar? Someone forgot that Gengar has the ability "Levitate". :silenced:
Looks like someone forgot that Pinsir's ability is Mold Breaker :silenced::silenced: (double silenced). Think before you speak please. No one else is being a smart alec on this thread. But I know you're a nice guy so I took no offense. :biggrin:
I completley agree with you Ace. And, the reason Tyranitar isn't an Uber is because it has very bad typing. Rock/Dark= Lots of weaknesses.
Ok I say Garchomp,Salamance, and Dragonite Our Non-Uber. They Can Be Easily Killed.
T-Tar Possible A Uber But Again Hes Easy To Kill. I Do Kinda Agree To You Ace.
lol. same thing lol.
Don't forget it's lack of speed.
We didn't. Thats why he has the move Dragon Dance, which ups his speed and attack.

Shinies
09-12-2007, 06:04 AM
I agree with this 100%.....

TheOneAndOnlyCarlo
09-12-2007, 06:10 AM
I agree with this 100%.....

Shinies, I'll be on Wi-Fi. xD
I got d/c on AIM, LOL.

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 06:10 AM
Shinies, I'll be on Wi-Fi. xD
I got d/c on AIM, LOL.
Does your quote mean you agree? if not don't spam here buddy! lol.

se7en
09-12-2007, 10:11 AM
I definitely agree with this. The only Pokemon i really dislike is Garchomp, with such high stats and only two weaknesses it's really overpowered.

Cool Kid 94
09-12-2007, 03:11 PM
I agree, but the other 600 BST legends are beastly with their moves or movepools. Cresselia and Heatran are OK. I think anything that's about to be entered in the Battle Tower should be usable here.

The 2500 base stat total wasn't a bad idea, but it wasn't a good idea either. Some n00b could stick 3 Arceus on his team...

Hyper Blaze
09-12-2007, 03:14 PM
I definitely agree with this. The only Pokemon i really dislike is Garchomp, with such high stats and only two weaknesses it's really overpowered.

Yes! I agrre with you. The only thing that can counter it is Ice. But an Adamant Garchomp with choice Scarf and Outrage is unbeatable. And I agree.

ronjocox
09-12-2007, 03:16 PM
Yes! I agrre with you. The only thing that can counter it is Ice. But an Adamant Garchomp with choice Scarf and Outrage is unbeatable. And I agree.

It is counterable, seeing as most run adamant; A scarfed Timid Porygon-Z could outrun it and OHKO.

Skarmory could switch on outrage and set up.

Anything with Explosion ohkos it too.

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 03:17 PM
I definitely agree with this. The only Pokemon i really dislike is Garchomp, with such high stats and only two weaknesses it's really overpowered.
Yea, Garchomps can be tough.
I agree, but the other 600 BST legends are beastly with their moves or movepools. Cresselia and Heatran are OK. I think anything that's about to be entered in the Battle Tower should be usable here.

The 2500 base stat total wasn't a bad idea, but it wasn't a good idea either. Some n00b could stick 3 Arceus on his team...
Yea, I'm only talking about Base 600 and lower legends, no higher.
Yes! I agrre with you. The only thing that can counter it is Ice. But an Adamant Garchomp with choice Scarf and Outrage is unbeatable. And I agree.
Not unbeatable. If you're looking for a counter, see how much damage this will do: Choice Banded Ice Shard from Mamoswine. Guarentees attack first, gets stab to make it 60 base power (i think), gets 4x power, and with that 394 attack stat WITH Choice band, i think you're looking at a OHKO.

ronjocox
09-12-2007, 03:18 PM
Not unbeatable. If you're looking for a counter, see how much damage this will do: Choice Banded Ice Shard from Mamoswine. Guarentees attack first, gets stab to make it 60 base power (i think), gets 4x power, and with that 394 attack stat WITH Choice band, i think you're looking at a OHKO.

He said only Ice can be it. And you used ICE Shard to counter it. :P

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 03:20 PM
He said only Ice can be it. And you used ICE Shard to counter it. :P

Except he said a CHOICE SCARF one with OUTRAGE is UNBEATABLE:
"But an Adamant Garchomp with choice Scarf and Outrage is unbeatable."

Nuff said. Maybe i misinterperated it.

Hyper Blaze
09-12-2007, 03:21 PM
Except he said a CHOICE SCARF one with OUTRAGE is UNBEATABLE:
"But an Adamant Garchomp with choice Scarf and Outrage is unbeatable."

Nuff said. Maybe i misinterperated it.

Is almost unbeatable.

-Insert Cool Images in Here-

ronjocox
09-12-2007, 03:25 PM
Is almost unbeatable.

-Insert Cool Images in Here-

Of course. The way I see, a Yanmega with protect could outspeed it and hypnosis it and then use HP Ice or something.

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 03:27 PM
Of course. The way I see, a Yanmega with protect could outspeed it and hypnosis it and then use HP Ice or something.

It would need two speed boosts to outspeed it i think. Because even Adamant Garchomp outspeeds timid Yanmega i think... and who runs Timid on Yanmega?? lol. But i think its settled that its not unbeatable, BUT NEITHER ARE 600>LEGENDS!!!! :beard:

Hyper Blaze
09-12-2007, 03:28 PM
Of course. The way I see, a Yanmega with protect could outspeed it and hypnosis it and then use HP Ice or something.

Yeah, or my Magnazone with HP Ice. Well most things withh die. Exept after you get confused.

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Yeah, or my Magnazone with HP Ice. Well most things withh die. Exept after you get confused.
Yeah thats true. I hate Garchomps though :biggrin:. Cheapest pokemon ever made, having TWO more base speed gives it soooo much flexibility.. But i have the perfect counter coming soon for it... :evil:MUHWAHAHAHA:evil:

ronjocox
09-12-2007, 03:37 PM
Yeah, or my Magnazone with HP Ice. Well most things withh die. Exept after you get confused.

Earthquake, Earthquake, Earthquake, Earthquake, and Earthquake,

That is the way I see it. :P

Hyper Blaze
09-12-2007, 03:41 PM
Earthquake, Earthquake, Earthquake, Earthquake, and Earthquake,

That is the way I see it. :P

And Garch has Choice Scarf and he used Outrage.

ronjocox
09-12-2007, 03:41 PM
And Garch has Choice Scarf and he used Outrage.

And then I switch out into Bliss.

Ace123456789
09-12-2007, 03:45 PM
!!!!SPAM ALERT!!!!

stop in your tracks! :hand:


This is not the time to have fake forum pokebattles.

Haelleah
09-12-2007, 04:39 PM
I'm not a clan leader, but you can add me to your agree list. There's no reason to ban Pokemon with 570 Base Stats because they're legends, when Pokemon with 600 Base Stats are allowed.

Arceus101
09-12-2007, 09:25 PM
thank you lol.

yea maybe you should...
That prooves my point that legends aren't unbeatable and should be allowed in pe2k.

I agree with Ace

Arceus101
09-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Everyone that posted that Garchomp is crappy is awesome. I agree with you.

Ace123456789
09-14-2007, 12:30 AM
I agree with Ace

Everyone that posted that Garchomp is crappy is awesome. I agree with you.

Dont double post. And the two posts didn't contribute to the conversation at all.

brettmeeink
09-14-2007, 12:39 AM
So how many clan leaders do we have that agree?

Ace123456789
09-14-2007, 12:45 AM
Two leaders and one Co-Leader.

NinjaDuelist
09-14-2007, 12:46 AM
Two leaders and one Co-Leader.

How many are disagreeing?

Ace123456789
09-14-2007, 12:50 AM
How many are disagreeing?

There are no Clan Leaders that are disagreeing at the moment. I'll try to get bigboy's opinion (ex-clan leader), DragoniteMaster's opinion, and fullmetals. SS didn't give me a clear answer..

NinjaDuelist
09-14-2007, 01:00 AM
What did SS say, exactly?

Ace123456789
09-14-2007, 01:01 AM
What did SS say, exactly?

I dont have the quote, but he pretty much said that He PARTLY agrees. He said its not cool that Regirock gets 200 Defense EVs with no double weaknesses, but some are acceptable.

NinjaDuelist
09-14-2007, 01:03 AM
So he's partially agreeing, then. :rolleyes: