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Kayden Javlaíakín
04-03-2005, 07:22 AM
Earlier my mom told me that the Pope had died. Can anyone confirm this? Because if he did, I will be very sad...

Ace
04-03-2005, 07:28 AM
Yes, it's true.

Pope John Paul II has indeed passed away of kidney failure - this is not a loss for just Catholics, however, but all the world.

John Paul II travelled the most out of all other popes in the past, also, he did help end Communism and aided with securing peace between Russia and the U.S. following Communism's fall.

It is indeed a stunning loss, but although he is not physically here with us, his legacy will be alive as long as humanity is still in existance.

Kayden Javlaíakín
04-03-2005, 07:38 AM
That's so beautiful...tear, tear. :cry:

Matthew
04-03-2005, 08:30 AM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050402/ap_on_re_eu/pope

Go there for a Yahoo! News story about the death of the Pope...

He said aides had told the pope that thousands of young people were in St. Peter's Square on Friday evening. Navarro-Valls said the pope appeared to be referring to them when he seemed to say: "'I have looked for you. Now you have come to me. And I thank you.'"

Bueatiful! What a remarkable man...

Incongruity
04-03-2005, 03:18 PM
not really too big of a deal for anyone who isn't catholic

surprised there's no news on another 1400 kids dying from AIDS.. but I understand why. After all, the pope dying is the loss of a holy man, while AIDS is a just punishment."It is a just retribution for improper sexual misconduct""AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that *tolerates* homosexuals."

Anyways, I'll try to keep on topic. He certainly did help against communism, and I loved his car. It is sad that anybody dies, but he lived a good, long, and happy life. I bet he's looking up at us right now.

Matthew
04-03-2005, 04:51 PM
not really too big of a deal for anyone who isn't catholic

surprised there's no news on another 1400 kids dying from AIDS.. but I understand why. After all, the pope dying is the loss of a holy man, while AIDS is a just punishment.

Anyways, I'll try to keep on topic. He certainly did help against communism, and I loved his car. It is sad that anybody dies, but he lived a good, long, and happy life. I bet he's looking up at us right now.

Harsh SK.... How can you say those things? I'm not a religous person, but honostly now.... why the hell would you come to a thread about one of the most important men dying and say those things? Come on now... have a little more respect...

How can you use that quote?:

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that *tolerates* homosexuals."

AIDS isn't a punishment from God.... it is an STD... not some godsent punishment... That's like saying some person who drowns because he doesn't know how to swim and he slipt into a pool is a punishment from god, just because he didn't know how to swim.... it doesn't work that way...

And why would you bring up the topic of AIDS in a topic about the Pope dying? Stay on topic, and if you wish to make a thread on that topic, by all means... go for it... But stay on topic...

world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics

That's a large chunk of the worlds population SK... so yeah, it kinda is a big deal... Also... for all the things he has done for this world by aiding in the end of communism, and he also visited Palestine and attempted to reconcile the warring neighbors...

John Paul was intent on improving relations with Muslims. On a trip to Damascus, Syria, in May 2001, he became the first pope to step into a mosque.

Doesn't that show you who this man is? He tried to change the world... he was a symbol of hope for many people, not only catholics... so if you come here to not respect the past pope, then don't come here at all....

I bet he's looking up at us right now.

You know what? They say ignorance is bliss.... I guess your happy then :wink:

Incongruity
04-03-2005, 05:05 PM
nah, he was a pretty good person, despite certain views. His secular achievements were wonderful, but he suffered the same faults as all catholics.

I'm just saying we shouldn't grieve for him

after all, he did live a good and full life. (84 full years)


who we should be grieving for are those people who didn't have a chance to live a good and full life


I'm just kind of annoyed how there are news stories all over for a man dying, and 1.2 billion catholics care, while there are no news stories for everyone else dying, who didn't even have the opportunity to be as good as him.



oh, and yes, the pope has a lot to do with AIDS. He supported mother teresa, and he supported banning condoms.

Bashaamo
04-04-2005, 11:52 PM
Hello,

The passing of the pope is very unfortunate, I remember when I finally heard the news confirmed, and I was shocked.

The pope was one of the most beloved men in the 20th century. He worked for peace, and most importantly union amongst peoples of all faiths, all across the world. This perhaps is his greatest legacy. Pope John Paul II will be missed by so many, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, and even people of no faith, Cuba, an Atheist country expressed sorrow for his death.

And if there is a place called heaven, he is one of the few people of the past century that deserve to be there.


Sk, your right it is a terrible tragedy that so many did everyday, death is a fact of life, and a very sorry one. Everyday (especially Sunday) myself and fellow Catholics remember all those who have died, and hadn't a chance to live a full life.

Not to get off topic, but HIV/AIDS is one of the worst things to happen to the human race in many years. It may not be a punishment by God, but it sure does show the moral decay of the world. I'm not saying that people with HIV/AIDS deserve to have it, it just shows clearly how much our culture values sex, although this is not true in all places in the world with severe HIV/AIDS.

The late pope was a great man, he really was the definition of pontiff (pontiff = bridge maker). He worked for peace and was a hero; he rightly should be remembered by the public. Would you be as annoyed if a great secular peace maker died? Say like RR last year?

God Bless you Pope John Paul II, you’re missed by billions,

-Bash

Alakazam
04-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Sk, why the **** did you post that Jerry Fallwell quote? He's not even Catholic! He's a subhuman, Baptist worm, not worthy of licking mud of the bottom of my shoes.

Loyal Arcanine
04-05-2005, 01:47 PM
Sk, why the **** did you post that Jerry Fallwell quote? He's not even Catholic! He's a subhuman, Baptist worm, not worthy of licking mud of the bottom of my shoes.

Stupid command about your shoes there ... the Baptists think exactly the same about the Catholic's. I'm Christian, but not Catholic, and not Baptist either, but right now I feel like calling you a Catholic worm too.

ElimN8
04-05-2005, 03:58 PM
...even though Zam is Christian. :tongue: (unless I'm mistaken)

Anyways, I see what you're saying SK, but he was famous, and as is evident, had a large impact on a lot of people's lives; you can't expect the media and public to just ignore his death. All the other people out there dying from diseases such as AIDS are unfortunately too common to have too much press coverage. Also, just because you lived a good life doesn't mean people shouldn't grieve over you.

Though, I do think that people tend to forget about the prejudices made on the part of "good people" posthumously, and so for that I'm glad someone isn't just joining in the collective pity party. Remember this (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1031)? The Pope didn't want anyone to enjoy their Sundays. That's rediculous. Wanting to ban condoms, the number one rule in practicing safe sex, is also rediculous.

So while I didn't exactly follow the guy's life, I can say that in light of whatever great things he may have done, he wasn't exactly what I'd call ideal.

Alakazam
04-05-2005, 04:25 PM
Stupid command about your shoes there ... the Baptists think exactly the same about the Catholic's. I'm Christian, but not Catholic, and not Baptist either, but right now I feel like calling you a Catholic worm too.

I'm sorry for your misinterpretation of my post. I don't take it back, rather I'll explain to you what I meant.

I don't think it was a stupid comment about my shoes in that post.
I was saying that I think Jerry Falwell is a subhuman worm, and i pointed out that he's Baptist (as opposed to being Catholic). I have absolutely no respect for that man, and that fact the his words were being used to slander the Pope infuriated me in a way I hardly put into words.

I wasn't saying that I think Baptists are worms, lol.

Do you still feel like calling me a worm?


...even though Zam is Christian. :tongue: (unless I'm mistaken)

Yes, I'm Roman Catholic, hence my rage at sk's quote.

Loyal Arcanine
04-05-2005, 05:37 PM
Do you still feel like calling me a worm?

Ehh, no. :oops: Since Fallwell was Baptist he might have used anything against the Pope. I indeed fell over the "baptist worm".

Incongruity
04-05-2005, 08:00 PM
meh, I think I came off a lil more cold-hearted than I wanted to


the jerry falwell thing was just to show how christians EDIT: CAN think alike, nothing more.Edit: I simply meant that sometimes the whole christians against christians things goes too far, that they can agree at times



And alright, I do realize that all the other deaths are too common. As stalin said, "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic"


Anyways, if we're on the topic of what the pope did that was good, he did a lot. He lowered tension between catholics and jews, he visited tons of places, he lowered tension in the Korean peninsula, helped stop communism, etc.

Perhaps most of all, he wasn't italian (not that Italians are bad, just to set a hope for non-Italians for the papacy)


but let's try not to make his death more than it is. Let's not forget that he was old, and lived his life to the fullest. Let's especially not forget his faults (or to put it positively, that he was just like any of us).

Alakazam
04-05-2005, 08:11 PM
the jerry falwell thing was just to show how christians think alike, nothing more



Well, I heartily disagree with that sentiment and would like to point out that the Falwell quote you posted didn't prove that at all.

Within the demographic "Christian" (as in ALL demographics: "men" "women" "Muslims" "Jews", etc) there are a wide range of beliefs, raning from the ultraconservative to the ultraliberal, and all shades in between. Just because Jerry Falwell hates gays doesn't mean that his beliefs are representitive of all Christians as a whole, and the same goes for ANY given Christian.

You seem to say "...just to show how christians think alike, nothing more" as if it were a small, widely accepted objective reality, when in reality, it is a falsehood.

Incongruity
04-05-2005, 08:16 PM
nah, not like that. I meant that Christians can go beyond the borders of their sects to think the same way. Catholics and Baptists can both be neocons.

Alakazam
04-05-2005, 08:19 PM
Oh, okay. I agree with you there.

MystiKal
04-08-2005, 02:40 AM
Well I totally agree with Sk on this on mean come on the pope was just some ordinary man he was no diffrent then any other person. Why should his death be reconized and millions of others not?

King Zark
04-09-2005, 08:37 PM
He is just another person who just rules the world tinyest country with no power in the real world!


All he did was good things and the things I see about him is too much there have been to many people like that but they never gotten mentioned!

Matthew
04-09-2005, 09:29 PM
He is just another person who just rules the world tinyest country with no power in the real world!


All he did was good things and the things I see about him is too much there have been to many people like that but they never gotten mentioned!

Why must you be so bloody ignorant? How can you VT, say that he was an ordinary man, and you patel, saying that he has no power?

You do realize that the Pope was one of the most powerful leaders in the world... right? He was the 'leader' of the worlds 1 billion+ catholics and as sk said, " he did a lot. He lowered tension between catholics and jews, he visited tons of places, he lowered tension in the Korean peninsula, helped stop communism, etc."

The Pope was not an ordinary man... he tried to bring peace to this world and bring people together, often succeeding by reducing tension. All though that tension still exists today, he tried his entire life to fight for a common unity via words of peace, instead of what many of us are doing in the world today (mainly us.... (war in Iraq)) The Pope was a well respected man, one who has done much more than an 'ordinary man.'

I may not practice my religion, or think that it is right.... so don't get me wrong... Though I am not a devout catholic man myself, it irriatates me beyond belief that people are being ignorant...

I like that quote you brought up sk ("The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic") Though "the death of millions is a statistic," I agree with sk that they shouldn't be forgotten... and they aren't. Many people that were close to those 'statistics' remember them everyday. The rest of us, though feeling sympathetic for their death, don't care that much because they haven't affected our lives. It's just human nature... it can't be helped.

And sorry if I sound so harsh, just try to respect a man who has done so much, despite his religous stand-point...

Incongruity
04-10-2005, 12:12 AM
aite, I must say Lugia took my opinion to a foolish extreme. The Pope was a powerful man. Power doesn't necessarily come in size of the nation, he had enormous influence. Imagine having a billion people completely tricked into believing you were associated with a divine figure. Get what I mean, yet?

Oh, and he did do things, but he did bad things too.

and VT, he wasn't an ordinary man, although he had ordinary faults, which many seem to ignore... :susp: He did do some good, primarily secular I might note; the thing I loved most about him was the opposition of a war on Iraq.


And matt, atleast you recognize that our nature can be ridiculous at times. The death of the pope is a lot like the Determining Newsworthiness chart in America: The Book

The thing that applies most is most definitely

Body Count Conversion Rate
2000 Massacred Congolese=500 Drowned Bangladeshis=45 Fire-bombed Iraqis=12 Car-bombed Europeans=1 snipered American

although it is meant to be satire, satire is meant to satirize that which is already true

Matthew
04-10-2005, 12:19 AM
XD

I want to get that book... lol. John Stewart is a funny guy.... I saw it at Borders and I was going to get it... but I didn't have money.... forgot all about it until you just mentioned it... hehe.

20000 Massacred Congolese=5000 Drowned Bangladeshis=450 Fire-bombed Iraqis=120 Car-bombed Europeans=10 snipered Americans= 1 health-failured Pope

I added to the satire... though it is a bit extreme (which satire is meant to be (multiplied everything by 10) It still shows how hungry the media is for the deaths of those who are considered 'important' by our media...

Tamer San
04-12-2005, 04:51 PM
Yeah, this pope was a remarkable man and a true human. He loved from his heart, called for world peace and frogave Jews for killing Jesus and asked forgivness from Muslims and Arabs for the Crusader Wars which was awsome. He was the first pope ever to break the Vatikan(Sp?) rules and travled around the entire world and met everyone. And I am so honored that my father actually met the pope...

Dog of Hellsing
04-15-2005, 02:16 AM
I'm Wiccan, and even I was shocked when the Pope died. He really was a good man. I don't see how those of who are doing it can sit there and say "Oh he was just another guy, boo hoo and now that's it." That's not just it. He really made a big impact on the world. It's certainly not going to be easy for the next Pope to fill those shoes. Yes, it is sad that millions of people die and don't have worldwide fame. But they aren't forgotten. There are many people who remember those of us "common folk" when we die. So what if it won't be broadcasted to the world? Every life is precious you know, from the smallest to the largest. You should learn to not just throw it aside because it's "common."

manectrics_shockwave
04-15-2005, 02:21 AM
Im Catholic, and when i went to youth group everyone was freaking out. It makes me sad though that he died, he was a good pope.

TMTS
04-15-2005, 03:00 AM
It is/was a horrible lost, but at least he's not suffering anymore. He did a lot of miraculous things, and I respect him for that.

People in my school tend to go overboard when they realise I'm not as phased as them about it (even though it was a while ago). I'm Lutheran, (for those who don't know, is a different deiverstion of christianity). We have many different beliefs [from the Catholic devision], but he is still a Christian leader, and as stated before, was a loss on us all.

>_> A mural on the side of a building in Detroit is going to be painted over (it was a Red Wings hockey player, but... due to recent events... with the sport) and people were proposing people to put up there. The pope was one of the top rated ones. :ermm: But that probably wouldn't be good for the city... it's bad enough (not saying the pope is bad or anything, just there are many different religions around here, and... some neo-yuppie would go nuts. :ermm:

Sorry... I tend to reinterate my points over and over...

Hypocrisy is Fun
04-17-2005, 03:05 AM
I miss him, he was always so cool and stuff, he didnt want to be palin, he laughed and was cool

King Zark
04-17-2005, 02:18 PM
Does he have a family?

Like kids and stuff?

MystiKal
04-17-2005, 06:59 PM
Well Matthew I was calling him a ordinary man because he was. He put his pants on the same way we all do, one leg at a time. Also anyone can become the pope they just have to be voted in. Now you see why I didn't think he did anything worth while?

Loyal Arcanine
04-17-2005, 07:55 PM
I would like to say something about the people who went to the funeral. There were so many high-placed people, you know, politicians and rulers of nations. But the following thing I found interesting: I live in Holland, and our Prime Minister also went to the funeral. However, from origin our land is protestant, so how can he go? I've even heard people say he betrayed Holland. That may be a bit too far, I would not know. But what I find even more annoying is that while being a protestant country, the Queen and her family have been highly critiscised for not going to the funeral. Actually, since we're a protestant country, the royal familie ARE the ones who should not be going. Critiscise them if they go!

hannah potter
04-18-2005, 12:57 PM
i have heard a lot about this pope
but i dont know what he did
but i am told he has changed a few things

Kayden Javlaíakín
04-19-2005, 12:53 AM
You don't know how The Pope changed the world?! I'm going to faint....*Faints*

Incongruity
04-19-2005, 01:06 AM
yes, the pope did many things


continued narrow-minded theology of the church
argued for an all-male priesthood
condemned condoms, because apparently they help to spread AIDS
appointed most of the College of Cardinals, so his conservative views will live on
continued the authoritarian church system, in which the pope is infallible
agreed that the holocaust and abortion are equivalent
blamed democracy for Hitler and the Nazis
etc. etc.

Matthew
04-19-2005, 01:12 AM
yes, the pope did many things


continued narrow-minded theology of the church
argued for an all-male priesthood
condemned condoms, because apparently they help to spread AIDS
appointed most of the College of Cardinals, so his conservative views will live on
continued the authoritarian church system, in which the pope is infallible
agreed that the holocaust and abortion are equivalent
blamed democracy for Hitler and the Nazis
etc. etc.


I like how you listed ONLY the bad stuff... lol... :silly:

If you want more info, search the thread, and look online for news, bios and stuff...

I'm guessing your a liberal sk? lol.... I'm conservative... eh... I don't care though... you're still a wicked awesome guy! lol.

Incongruity
04-19-2005, 01:18 AM
Meh, the good stuff can be found so easily, after all, he is infallible. How could he do anything bad? If he says democracy was responsible for the Holocaust, well he's right. That's not bad; because he said it, it is good!

And I'll let you ponder on whether I'm liberal or conservative...


However, I will say that I believe being blindly loyal to a single dogma can make you look like a smacktard

Matthew
04-19-2005, 03:27 AM
Meh, the good stuff can be found so easily, after all, he is infallible. How could he do anything bad? If he says democracy was responsible for the Holocaust, well he's right. That's not bad; because he said it, it is good!

And I'll let you ponder on whether I'm liberal or conservative...


However, I will say that I believe being blindly loyal to a single dogma can make you look like a smacktard

which is why I don't practice my religion... lol.

I'm gonna end my say in this conversation by saying that though the death of the pope didn't effect my life at all, I just feel he deserves recognition from those who say he is an ordinary man, and that he did nothing. It just pains me to see people be so unrespectful to a man that is considered respectable, regardless if he had some rather extreme point of veiws that a lot of us disagree on... come on now, is anyone perfect?

Bye now :silly:

Dog of Hellsing
04-19-2005, 07:45 AM
I also am going to close up my conversation here. But before I go, I have one thing to say:

He was human. Humans make mistakes and have different opinions. All creatures make mistakes for that matter. What would the point of life be if everyone just breezed through it, with no hardships or faults or flaws or mistakes to learn and grow from and be able to triumph over?

Also...yes, he was just a man, a man who was loved by many, and, hard as it might sound, probably hated (I prefer to say "strongly disliked") by others. Some might not even really know about him. At any rate, life is precious. Each and every one. When some homeless person dies in the street, when a President is assassinated, when a Pope passes on in his sleep, it doesn't matter who they were or how they died. What matters is they lived, period. Too many people think when someone dies, it's just "Oh well another person to stick in the ground."

The Pope was just another human, yes. But he made a difference is why people liked him. Even if some of those differences weren't the best. At any rate, let's quit arguing over who we should and shouldn't openly grieve for and all, and just learn to respect ALL life.

Blessed Be.

EDIT: My mom told me yesterday that there is a new Pope, a German who was elected yesterday. I don't know too much about it though. *Goes to Yahoo to find out about the new Pope.*

Tamer Marco
04-20-2005, 10:38 PM
No big loss to me. Yeah. He was great, even though he let little boys and girls get raped by priests and nuns.

Kayden Javlaíakín
04-20-2005, 10:58 PM
Hey, ya'll probably already know this, but theyr'e electing a new Pope!!

Alakazam
04-21-2005, 12:30 AM
Yup; the German Cardinal Ratzinger has been elected Pope Benedict XVI.

Dog of Hellsing
04-21-2005, 01:47 AM
Yeah, mom said something about them choosing a new name when they become Pope. O_o Again, something I'm not familiar with. And with this, I reopen my conversation with a question: do you all think this new Pope will be better than the last?

Incongruity
04-22-2005, 01:17 AM
It depends on perspective


This new pope is ultra-ultra-conservative, so..... :signyeah::signok::sign?:

Alakazam
04-23-2005, 12:26 AM
TT: Yeah, they've always done that.



sk: Yeah, his uberconservatism scares me....I hear his views even border on fundamentalism *shudders*

Dog of Hellsing
04-23-2005, 03:06 AM
O_o wow...man I hope they didn't choose the wrong guy for Pope...can you imagine the things someone who really wanted to could do with that sort of position? Look at how famous the last Pope was. *Shudders.* Makes you think about the powerful leaders and voices in the world, don't it?

Alakazam
04-23-2005, 01:25 PM
Pope John Paul the Second was actualy VERY liberal (for a Pope, mind you). It was under his papacy that women were allowed to serve communion.

So yeah, I'm not sure what to think about B16...I guess we'll have to all keep our fingers crossed that he won't undo the good that JP2 did.