View Full Version : A sad realisation involving standards, Kingdra and Articuno

01-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Now listen up, I've come up with something I haven't used much, but it worked the few times I did. As much as I love Kingdra, I'm going to have to beat up on it for a sec.


Are its base stats, and people use it to special sweep with rain dance or choice specs. But what self-respected sweeper goes with those poor of stats? Well, with swift swim, we all know that it gains tremendous speed with decent attack power.

But wait! Take a look at Articuno's base stats:


Notice that it has the same base stats here. But Kingdra has rain dance to boost that speed, yes? Well, what people overlook is that Articuno gets Agility to have the same effect. So wouldn't:

Articuno @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Agility
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Substitute / Extrasensory / Ancientpower

Work just like Kingdra? Obviously the EVs need work, I still need to figure out what it has to outspeed, but otherwise a special sweeping variant. But like Kingdra, this will lack power and Blissey will easily take STAB Ice Beams and just lol, as will even poor special walls. But lol, they didn't invent Baton Passers for nothing.

Can also gain a secondary STAB with HP Flying, but then Steels just laugh at you.

Ambipom @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

Taunt stops PHazing and most hazing as well while it can set up subs to protect it and Cuno from status and Nasty Plot some seriously beef to Articuno.

While you could do the same thing with Kingdra, the EQ resist and the extra bulk make this a real gem to pass to. Still in the WAY preliminary stages vs. the Gross that had undergone lots of testing beforehand. STAB Ice Beam is nice as well, and Dragons like Specsmence and even ScarfChomp are going to bow down to its speed and power.

Steels obviously are quite the problem, which is what Kingdra has over this a lot. That and that it doesn't need so much support and possesses more powerful attacks.

I've found this to work best for late-game sweeps actually, otherwise there are simply too many counters to really make it worthwhile. Really, it worked better in ADV getting CM passes from Celebi, but this will have to suffice.

But the idea, even beyond Articuno doing what Kingdra can, is that sometimes these kinds of similarities are overlooked. For example, Metagross has the same base SAtk as kingdra. How's that for amazing?

I don't know, these kind of things just amaze me ._. Sue me.

But any comments on this set and also any sets of your own that work similar top standards that are overlooked? Articuno is a bit of an example really.

01-20-2008, 03:58 PM
Articuno doesn't sweep because Stealth Rocks does 50% on the switch and without a Rapid Spinner, you can say gg with Roar, and seeing you have to set up, you're leaving your self exposed to a SE attack witch will KO.

That Ambipom set is pretty standard though.

Fire Away
01-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Kingdra's not a standard. His niche is RD teams.

Leman hit the nail on the head, really. It's not Articuno's stats, but its typing that hurts it. Ice typing is always sort of a mixed bag, but coupled with flying type you're better off just ignoring Articuno completely in a metagame where SR are on every team. Unless of course you're just really determined to use it.

There's also the fact that if you allow someone else on your team set up RD, you have room for four moves on Kingdra, giving it more type coverage and sweeping potential. Also, Kingdra's movepool owns Articuno's. Draco Meteor and Dragon Dance are excellent moves.

Spongebob Number One Fan
01-21-2008, 09:45 PM
Way to copy my thread from PC, I REALLY appreciate it.


That's plagiarism :/

This is EXACTLY copied from MY thread on PC (I'm Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13) and I really don't like when people copy my work. That REALLY ticks me off :/

As for the topic, I've tried it out. That Articuno set actually does work, but Kingdra (now that I've finally gotten some more experience with it) outclasses it totally. The Rain Dance boost proved greatly helpful for Kingdra and the STAB Draco Meteor was cool too...I love Articuno SO much lol

At least it can be a great special wall lol (yeah, I use it on all of my teams...as long as you keep SR off the field, it tears stuff up.)

The title caught my eye right away and I'm really shocked somebody would do this :/

EDIT: Oh, I wasn't trying to innovate or anything with Ambipom, just giving Cuno a nasty plot passer lol