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Stubby Boardman
02-24-2008, 03:13 PM
I looked at smogon for a main part of this team and did a little adjustment to them for one reason or another.

Lucario@choice specs/life orb
nature: timid or modest
ability: Steadfast
evs: max spatk and spd
move1: dark pulse
move2: Aura Sphere
move3: dragon pulse
move4: shadow ball/vacuum wave/Hiddon Power if good one

Well this is my special sweeper but I'm still unsure of the last two attacks. I think life orb will be a better item but extra speed or special attack may not be that bad.

Electivire@Expert Belt
nature: adament
ability: Electivire only has one ability.
evs: max atk and spd
move 1: Brick Break/Cross Chop
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Thunder Punch

Mainly basic moveset but instead of cross chop I have Brick Break because of better accuarcy and for the occtional reflect/light screen that I may encounter. Since Itachi 2007 suggested cross chop (since it's better) I'll try to get one with cross chop.

Duckinoir@leftovers
nature: careful
ability: only has one ability
evs: working on
move 1: Thunder Punch
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Pain Split

I saw this on smogon and thought it was a good moveset so I'm using it.

Infernape@focus sash/life orb
naive nature
ability: has only one
evs: evs from smogon
move 1: nasty plot
move 2: grass knot
move 3: close combat
move 4: flamethrower

This one is from smogon again. I changed the evs around though. I'm not sure though about life orb but I decide to leave it blank so I'm open for suggetions. Thanks.

Blissey@leftovers
calm nature
ability: natural cure
evs: 252 hp/spdfe 6 spatk
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Seismic toss/Water pulse
move 3: Softboiled
move 4: Thunder Wave/Sing

Know all the Blisseys on Smogon had Blissey with a bold nature and evs in dfe but I have a question about that. What's the point when Blisseys dfe is so darn low? Blisseys max dfe is 130. Either way Blisseys going to faint with one physical atk some why not then try for max spdfe and make it the perfect special wall.

Forretress@leftovers
impish nature
ability: only has one
evs: 252 hp/dfe, 6 atk
move 1: gyro ball
move 2: stealth rocks
move 3: rapid spin
move 4: explosion

Tell me if I'm wrong but I believe this a basic Forretress. Gyro Ball for Weaviles, and rapid spin for spikes and such.

Please tell me what you think all advice will be appreciated. Thanks for the help in advanced.

Outlawed
02-24-2008, 04:49 PM
Electivire coming in on your electivire's thunder punch will murder your whole team. and a fire attack from anything will knock out your forretress which happens to be THE only way of wailling you have there. ScarfChomp sucks in all honesty way overrated and that's why you should run SDchomp. I suggest you remove a sweeper and add a special and mixed wall. no walling what so ever.

Spongebob Number One Fan
02-24-2008, 06:28 PM
Um what does 3 physical sweepers do for this team? A lotof the metagame can break Forretress. You're weak to all forms of Infernape, any dragon with a fire attack, Gyarados, you name it. Meaning you need to drop some of that army of sweepers and get some defense.

Stubby Boardman
02-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Ok I edited my first post getting rid of Electivire and adding Espeon and Shuckle, and was thinking of changing Foretress to something else so please give me any suggestions. Thanks.

Outlawed
02-25-2008, 02:23 AM
Ok I edited my first post getting rid of Electivire and adding Espeon and Shuckle, and was thinking of changing Foretress to something else so please give me any suggestions. Thanks.
you still have too many sweepers. you need two proper walls, one physical and one special and maybe a mixed one or a tank. Also where are the speed EV's on that Porygon-Z?? Also SD Weavile is way overrated and really bad, I suggest you run Night Slash for STAB.

Stubby Boardman
02-25-2008, 11:17 AM
you still have too many sweepers. you need two proper walls, one physical and one special and maybe a mixed one or a tank. Also where are the speed EV's on that Porygon-Z?? Also SD Weavile is way overrated and really bad, I suggest you run Night Slash for STAB.

I don't have speed evs on porygon z because even if I have a timid nature and max evs in speed it would still be outrunned by many pokemon used by other trianers.

Ok do you have any suggestions on any walls then I should use that would be great if you'd give me somethin to work with.

thanks.

Outlawed
02-25-2008, 01:49 PM
I don't have speed evs on porygon z because even if I have a timid nature and max evs in speed it would still be outrunned by many pokemon used by other trianers.

Ok do you have any suggestions on any walls then I should use that would be great if you'd give me somethin to work with.

thanks.
Buddy you need that speed.
Timid Porygon-z Max speed will give you a 306 Speed.
That outruns SOOOOO many pokes.
Including, Dragonite, Heracross, Adamant Mence and Garchomp, Gallade, Gardevoir, Skarmory, Gyarados... the list goes on and on
Don't say porygon-Z timid is slow man cause it aint slow. At all. with Nasty Plot set, your are ready to sweep whole teams.
Walls, Gliscor, Blissey, Hippowdon, Skarmory, Donphan. you have alot of choices.

Stubby Boardman
02-25-2008, 02:22 PM
Buddy you need that speed.
Timid Porygon-z Max speed will give you a 306 Speed.
That outruns SOOOOO many pokes.
Including, Dragonite, Heracross, Adamant Mence and Garchomp, Gallade, Gardevoir, Skarmory, Gyarados... the list goes on and on
Don't say porygon-Z timid is slow man cause it aint slow. At all. with Nasty Plot set, your are ready to sweep whole teams.
Walls, Gliscor, Blissey, Hippowdon, Skarmory, Donphan. you have alot of choices.

Anything to add about what walls I should use. I really don't like Blissey so don't suggest a Blissey. Thanks for the feedback.

Outlawed
02-25-2008, 05:08 PM
Np
I persnally don't like Blissy but BlissNoir walling is the best
you can have alternatives. You have alot of choices, look on a pokedex and you suggest something with a spread and moveset and then we'll go more in depth ;)

Itachi_2007
02-25-2008, 07:07 PM
Anything to add about what walls I should use. I really don't like Blissey so don't suggest a Blissey. Thanks for the feedback.

This is more then likely because she's so damn overated and used. Wrong. She can be counter, any decent fighting type like Heracross with CC, just use it when you feel one coming. :/ But she is a big fat *****. :P

Special offensive 'Z is standard always. 0_o Max HP is horrid on sweepers, they can't really take a hit and aren't meant too, especially hit-and-run variants. But yeah, give it at least a few SPd EVS plox.

Weavile is a bad lead, so many counters to it. :P If you can put Swampert / Milotic / any other bulky water, it will be pretty awesome and sweet as a lead. :D

2 Physical Sweepers + 2 Special Sweepers is a bad idea, some of the things you want to opt / scout for are Rapid Spin, so Fortress is good, a Special + Physical Wall always, BP (if the team is suited for one.) Phazer, etc.

Protect on a Physical Wall like Fortress? No. If you use Gyro Ball, implent 0 SPD IV's for maxium potential. Spikes is better, use it in conjunction with a phazer like Skamory with Roar / Whirlwind.

SD Weavile wants Ice Shard for plain not getting outspeeded.

Jolly Garchomp when Choice Scarf on Garchomp is terrible, Adamant please, give it a Fire Fang instead of Fire Blast to work with as you really won't be OHKI'ng anything and FB without STAB, and terrible accuracy, is just bad. Potential to use it is off as well.

CM Espy' wants 'Sash to work with if you have something like Calm Mind. x.x

Two Physical Walls, i.e Fortress, and Shuckle, have similar coverage when used together, and so don't cover their weaknesses well. Replace one of them.

How can 'Z have Leftovers and Choice Specs? 0_o Wierd.

When using Choice Items, always use more powerful variants like Outrage, and I'm pretty sure you won't be keeping 'Chomp in since It's an early game sweeper, best used as a lead, despite the lack of awesomeness of a Bulky Water.

BB on Weavile is standard, so you're right, BTW.

FS Espy' is probably best with Grass Knot for the last slot.

I'm not good at finding weaks. ._. Leave that to someone else.

Stubby Boardman
02-25-2008, 08:20 PM
Ok I made a few changes. I'll add two other pokemon later but I was thinking something on the following: Lickielicky (I just love this pokemon I don't know why but I do), Duskinoir, and Ludicolo. I was thinking using two of the above.

Itachi_2007
02-25-2008, 09:53 PM
1. ) The moves are fine on Chomp. ._. If you're going with FF on him, use Choice band + Adamant Nature.

2.) Item clause is gay how could you oblige to that?

3.) Look foward to adding Gliscor and Swampert to this team. Swampert for a Heracross counter since you need to counter at least most, if not, all, of the Pokemon in the entire Metagame. Swampert for an awesome Bulky Water lead.

4.) If you feel, or if not another member tells you, that you have a Swampert weak, fit Ludicolo onto this team...

5.) Use Scarfchomp as a lead, get rid of Item Clause, and that will allow to counter other Garchomp as well.

Threat list: Garchomp.

Part II of Threat List - what Pokemon are weak to?

1.) Garchomp without Scarf, DC kills it. ._.

2.) Weavile, Fire Blast, SE.

3.) Fortress, Fire Blast / Fang, depending on the variant.

Part III: Counters to Garchomp, eh? If you put Choice Scarf Chomp as a lead, you counter him well. SE for Gyara leads, I could go on.

1.) 3 out of 4 of your pokemon cannot counter Garchomp.

2.) Yes, you could use 'Z as a lead, but I don't think, that even with a Scarf, he's gonna outspeed Garchomp, and he cannot switch in safely.

Conclusion: Weavile and Garchomp:

1.) Garchomp's weak to ice, switch to Weavile, BB! Unless It's duel type, which you should be worrying about 'Cuno, even if It's not common, I know for a fact that Articuno is one of his fav Special Walls, Regice too, but both have pressure, Arti' uses it better, and yeah...

2.) One interesting fact is that SR = bye bye Cuno'. Heateran, Infernape, Bronzong, Metagross, Tyranitar, etc.

Conclusion: Well, there are lot of Pokemon in the mategame, but # 1 Fan, again, told me that it really Isn't that hard to counter most of them...

Outlawed
02-26-2008, 02:27 AM
1. ) The moves are fine on Chomp. ._. If you're going with FF on him, use Choice band + Adamant Nature.

2.) Item clause is gay how could you oblige to that?

3.) Look foward to adding Gliscor and Swampert to this team. Swampert for a Heracross counter since you need to counter at least most, if not, all, of the Pokemon in the entire Metagame. Swampert for an awesome Bulky Water lead.

4.) If you feel, or if not another member tells you, that you have a Swampert weak, fit Ludicolo onto this team...

5.) Use Scarfchomp as a lead, get rid of Item Clause, and that will allow to counter other Garchomp as well.

Threat list: Garchomp.

Part II of Threat List - what Pokemon are weak to?

1.) Garchomp without Scarf, DC kills it. ._.

2.) Weavile, Fire Blast, SE.

3.) Fortress, Fire Blast / Fang, depending on the variant.

Part III: Counters to Garchomp, eh? If you put Choice Scarf Chomp as a lead, you counter him well. SE for Gyara leads, I could go on.

1.) 3 out of 4 of your pokemon cannot counter Garchomp.

2.) Yes, you could use 'Z as a lead, but I don't think, that even with a Scarf, he's gonna outspeed Garchomp, and he cannot switch in safely.

Conclusion: Weavile and Garchomp:

1.) Garchomp's weak to ice, switch to Weavile, BB! Unless It's duel type, which you should be worrying about 'Cuno, even if It's not common, I know for a fact that Articuno is one of his fav Special Walls, Regice too, but both have pressure, Arti' uses it better, and yeah...

2.) One interesting fact is that SR = bye bye Cuno'. Heateran, Infernape, Bronzong, Metagross, Tyranitar, etc.

Conclusion: Well, there are lot of Pokemon in the mategame, but # 1 Fan, again, told me that it really Isn't that hard to counter most of them...
Erm Itachi..... you said 3 wrong things up there bro.
1-) Scarf-Z is FASTER than the ADAMANT scarfchomp.
2-) Spec-Z is a GOD sweeper, if not the best specialist. with adaptability and STAB and Specs, tri-attack kills almost anything.
3-) Scarfchomp is way overrated, all he has to do to counter it is make sure his Weavile has Ice Shard, GG scarfchomp.

Pulse
02-26-2008, 06:58 AM
Erm Itachi..... you said 3 wrong things up there bro.
1-) Scarf-Z is FASTER than the ADAMANT scarfchomp.
2-) Spec-Z is a GOD sweeper, if not the best specialist. with adaptability and STAB and Specs, tri-attack kills almost anything.
3-) Scarfchomp is way overrated, all he has to do to counter it is make sure his Weavile has Ice Shard, GG scarfchomp.

1) No. No one runs a Timid Scarf-Z, so it is not as fast as a ScarfChomp. That first comment was completely idiotic and I hope you don't try to make yourself sound correct because it was wrong.
2) That is completely a subjective arguement, but I can tell you right now it isn't the best special sweeper. With Choice Specs, it is outsped by a lot of Pokémon and can be OHKO'd thanks to its frail defenses.
3) Weavile is not a counter to Garchomp. It is a revenge killer, but not even close to a counter. The definition of a counter is something that can switch in to a Pokémon, take a hit easily, and kill it or scare it off. Weavile does 1/3 of those steps, the last one.

Bro.

Stubby Boardman
02-26-2008, 11:20 AM
1. ) The moves are fine on Chomp. ._. If you're going with FF on him, use Choice band + Adamant Nature.

2.) Item clause is gay how could you oblige to that?

3.) Look foward to adding Gliscor and Swampert to this team. Swampert for a Heracross counter since you need to counter at least most, if not, all, of the Pokemon in the entire Metagame. Swampert for an awesome Bulky Water lead.

4.) If you feel, or if not another member tells you, that you have a Swampert weak, fit Ludicolo onto this team...

5.) Use Scarfchomp as a lead, get rid of Item Clause, and that will allow to counter other Garchomp as well.

Threat list: Garchomp.

Part II of Threat List - what Pokemon are weak to?

1.) Garchomp without Scarf, DC kills it. ._.

2.) Weavile, Fire Blast, SE.

3.) Fortress, Fire Blast / Fang, depending on the variant.

Part III: Counters to Garchomp, eh? If you put Choice Scarf Chomp as a lead, you counter him well. SE for Gyara leads, I could go on.

1.) 3 out of 4 of your pokemon cannot counter Garchomp.

2.) Yes, you could use 'Z as a lead, but I don't think, that even with a Scarf, he's gonna outspeed Garchomp, and he cannot switch in safely.

Conclusion: Weavile and Garchomp:

1.) Garchomp's weak to ice, switch to Weavile, BB! Unless It's duel type, which you should be worrying about 'Cuno, even if It's not common, I know for a fact that Articuno is one of his fav Special Walls, Regice too, but both have pressure, Arti' uses it better, and yeah...

2.) One interesting fact is that SR = bye bye Cuno'. Heateran, Infernape, Bronzong, Metagross, Tyranitar, etc.

Conclusion: Well, there are lot of Pokemon in the mategame, but # 1 Fan, again, told me that it really Isn't that hard to counter most of them...

I think I'll add swampert and duskinoir. I'll put in their movesets after I get home from school today. Thanks for the help.

Erm Itachi..... you said 3 wrong things up there bro.
1-) Scarf-Z is FASTER than the ADAMANT scarfchomp.
2-) Spec-Z is a GOD sweeper, if not the best specialist. with adaptability and STAB and Specs, tri-attack kills almost anything.
3-) Scarfchomp is way overrated, all he has to do to counter it is make sure his Weavile has Ice Shard, GG scarfchomp.

1) No. No one runs a Timid Scarf-Z, so it is not as fast as a ScarfChomp. That first comment was completely idiotic and I hope you don't try to make yourself sound correct because it was wrong.
2) That is completely a subjective arguement, but I can tell you right now it isn't the best special sweeper. With Choice Specs, it is outsped by a lot of Pokémon and can be OHKO'd thanks to its frail defenses.
3) Weavile is not a counter to Garchomp. It is a revenge killer, but not even close to a counter. The definition of a counter is something that can switch in to a Pokémon, take a hit easily, and kill it or scare it off. Weavile does 1/3 of those steps, the last one.

Bro.

Both of you thanks for the help.

Outlawed
02-26-2008, 05:32 PM
1) No. No one runs a Timid Scarf-Z, so it is not as fast as a ScarfChomp. That first comment was completely idiotic and I hope you don't try to make yourself sound correct because it was wrong.
2) That is completely a subjective arguement, but I can tell you right now it isn't the best special sweeper. With Choice Specs, it is outsped by a lot of Pokémon and can be OHKO'd thanks to its frail defenses.
3) Weavile is not a counter to Garchomp. It is a revenge killer, but not even close to a counter. The definition of a counter is something that can switch in to a Pokémon, take a hit easily, and kill it or scare it off. Weavile does 1/3 of those steps, the last one.

Bro.

hah.
Running a timid Scarf-Z may not be common, but it is definately effective. "everybody" doesn't win games all the time.

In my opinion, Porygon-Z no matter what anybody says is a very good specialist, and if NOT THE BEST one of the best easily. I don't care what you say. Spec-Z is just Godly. Apparently when you run it against a weavile that brick breaks it to death, that is not utilising it properly.

I didn't mean counter as in the counter you are reffering to, I mean revenge in a way, my bad.

Itachi_2007
02-26-2008, 06:53 PM
hah.
Running a timid Scarf-Z may not be common, but it is definately effective. "everybody" doesn't win games all the time.

In my opinion, Porygon-Z no matter what anybody says is a very good specialist, and if NOT THE BEST one of the best easily. I don't care what you say. Spec-Z is just Godly. Apparently when you run it against a weavile that brick breaks it to death, that is not utilising it properly.

I didn't mean counter as in the counter you are reffering to, I mean revenge in a way, my bad.

Specs-Z gets outspeeded easily. But you're right, nobobdy keeps it in against a Weavile. O_O Porygon-Z in general can't outspeed a majority of the Metagame without a Scarf. And even then, it loses vitality. :/ That's not what I would call one of the best sweepers. :/

90 Base Speed is about average, not enough to be considered a Sweeper. ._.

You get my point in all, no?

Cucumber
02-26-2008, 07:18 PM
Weavile@Focus sash
Jolly nature
max evs in atk and spd
Ice Punch
Swords dance
Night Slash
Brick Break

I don't think muscle band will be that good. What do you think of it
Swrods dance and sash weavile is standard choice

Garchomp
Jolly nature
max evs in atk and spd
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Swords dance
Fire Fang
Dragon Claw

Garchomp is my favorite dragon. Earthquake is for stab and it has great power. Stone Edge is for flying types. Fire Fang or Fire Blast is for Skarmory and or Forretress. Dragon Claw is stab and doesn't confuse like Outrage does. I don't trust using outrage cause if I'm in a tight situation and I'm confused I could lose the whole battle.

Swrods dance can help you out when you do a switch in to scare of some pokes

Porygon Z@choice specs
Timidnature
252 speed/252 special attack/6 Hp
tri attack
ice beam
thunder bolt
psychic/Dark pulse

If someone can get me a porygon with max ivs in spatk and spd and has a timid nature then I'll change it to what Outlawed suggested otherwise this moveset stays.
Since your going with specs make it timid nature he needs speed. Dark pulse is a various choice because of dusknoirs

Forretress@leftovers
impish nature
252/252 defense/6 attack
gyro ball
Rapid spin
spikes or stealth rocks
explosion

I'm using Forretress as a counter for Weavile only but tell me on how to improve it though.
Put rapid spin to take away Sr or spikes damage


__________________________________________________ ______________________________
-Ok I got rid of shuckle and espeon.
-I switched psychic for dark pulse on porygonz.
-I'm getting rid of choice scarf on Garchomp so suggest a new item and a few new move changes please.
-I'm not to sure about muslce band on weavile but I wanted an item that raises it attack.
-I'll add two more pokemon later just so you know.
-If anyone wants to sugget two other pokemon you can.
-Just to let everyone know I'm using item clause so please don't suggest an item on more then one pokemon please.
-If anyone has any other comments please add them.
-Thanks for all help in advanced.

Edits in bold

Stubby Boardman
02-26-2008, 08:09 PM
Edits in bold

Thanks for the help.

I also added a Swampert and a Milotic.

Itachi_2007
02-26-2008, 08:36 PM
Thanks for the help.

I also added a Swampert and a Milotic.

Nononononnonnono! Two Bulky Waters is insane. Dear god no, child.

Stubby Boardman
02-26-2008, 09:45 PM
Nononononnonnono! Two Bulky Waters is insane. Dear god no, child.

Then what shall I add then.

Itachi_2007
02-26-2008, 10:15 PM
Then what shall I add then.

Rapid Spinner, Phazer, Special Wall, a majority / plethora / multitude / variety options, and this team might need some support like wish, Reflect, Light Screen, etcetera. Edit: Milotic is technially a special wall, but a bulky water as well, and Swampert and Milotic have similar coverage, like all bulky waters do. :/

Stubby Boardman
02-26-2008, 10:35 PM
Rapid Spinner, Phazer, Special Wall, a majority / plethora / multitude / variety options, and this team might need some support like wish, Reflect, Light Screen, etcetera. Edit: Milotic is technially a special wall, but a bulky water as well, and Swampert and Milotic have similar coverage, like all bulky waters do. :/

How about an Umbreon then.

Itachi_2007
02-26-2008, 10:54 PM
How about an Umbreon then?

Quit guessing at what your team needs. Study your team, use a resourceful site like Smogon, (except for the EVs. ._.) and plug whatever needs to be fitted in.

Umbreon is terrible this gen, but can be given a chance if used right, but yeah, Umbreon fails at Wish support, if you're making subs to pass, which suck away your hp away rather quickly, Heracross can switch in and rape you, and there really is nothing else.

Vappy does Sub passing way better then Umby. And Isn't killed by Infernape's Grass Knot or T-Punch if EV'd right, Surf then OHKO's it.

If you're looking for a special wall, Blissey, like stated before, is a pink blob and a *****. But is best, if you're looking for something not so overated, Regice and Articuno are great. But not Milotic in this case. ._.

Pulse
02-26-2008, 10:59 PM
hah.
Running a timid Scarf-Z may not be common, but it is definately effective. "everybody" doesn't win games all the time.

In my opinion, Porygon-Z no matter what anybody says is a very good specialist, and if NOT THE BEST one of the best easily. I don't care what you say. Spec-Z is just Godly. Apparently when you run it against a weavile that brick breaks it to death, that is not utilising it properly.

I didn't mean counter as in the counter you are reffering to, I mean revenge in a way, my bad.

... When did I say to keep it in against a Weavile? I said that Weavile can only revenge kill Garchomp. If you lose a Pokémon every time Garchomp comes in and rely on Weavile to kill it, but it switches out every time, you aren't in good shape at all. Timid Scarf-Z is too rare to be considered on a threat list, thus making it a very trivial concern of his. Timid Scarf-Z is weak too, so maybe you shouldn't be giving this guy advice at all. Timid Choice Specs is a different story, and is effective, but you said Scarf.

Plus there is only one definition to a counter and to counter. :ermm: Revenging is not enough, especially on something like Garchomp...

Outlawed
02-27-2008, 04:52 AM
... When did I say to keep it in against a Weavile? I said that Weavile can only revenge kill Garchomp. If you lose a Pokémon every time Garchomp comes in and rely on Weavile to kill it, but it switches out every time, you aren't in good shape at all. Timid Scarf-Z is too rare to be considered on a threat list, thus making it a very trivial concern of his. Timid Scarf-Z is weak too, so maybe you shouldn't be giving this guy advice at all. Timid Choice Specs is a different story, and is effective, but you said Scarf.

Plus there is only one definition to a counter and to counter. :ermm: Revenging is not enough, especially on something like Garchomp...
I agree with the weavile revenge killing thing, I personaly use my Weavile as a revenge killer nothing more. To me Weavile is built to do that. Weather it is enough or not enough, it does the job to end the life of Scarchomp and then could be usefull later. Garchomp is best taken care of with Donphan and the such.
Also, My bad again, I ment Spec-Z @ timid the one I run, 306 Speed 369 sp.atk.

Itachi_2007
02-27-2008, 09:45 AM
A move to counter only one Pokemon Isn't really that beneficial. Also, Slowbro, Suicune, and Cresselia are probably one of the bests.

Donphan can only counter the Choice Band set. The SD set does it better, though.

Stubby Boardman
02-27-2008, 11:22 AM
Ok thanks y'all. I'll be updating this thread later.

Outlawed
02-27-2008, 12:44 PM
A move to counter only one Pokemon Isn't really that beneficial. Also, Slowbro, Suicune, and Cresselia are probably one of the bests.

Donphan can only counter the Choice Band set. The SD set does it better, though.

You are correct, a standard 252 HP and DEF Donphan will hardly 2HKO a Garchomp. However, running an Impish Donphan @ this set is more that enough to 2HKO any Garchomp.
236 Hp / 200 Def / 72 Atk

That is what I run.

Stubby Boardman
02-27-2008, 08:38 PM
Ok I was studying this for a while and this is what I have so far (look at first post). I'll add the other three pokemon movesets tomorrow or later tonight.

Itachi_2007
02-27-2008, 08:45 PM
Cross Chop over Brick Break for more power, you need to at least 2HKO Blissey, after that it becomes an annoyance to lower Hp'ed sweepers because It's doing 100 damage.

Scarf is terrible on Lucario, in retrospect It's probably better to run Choice Specs / Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse / Aura Sphere / Vaccum Wave or HP Ice.

Also, what did I tell you about using EVs from Smogon? Needs more defense. Some of them are ok, but you're taking a big chance there. Study the EVS, or test them out on a battle simulator, and modify them. Either way, you're going to have to modify them. :/

Stubby Boardman
02-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Cross Chop over Brick Break for more power, you need to at least 2HKO Blissey, after that it becomes an annoyance to lower Hp'ed sweepers because It's doing 100 damage.

Scarf is terrible on Lucario, in retrospect It's probably better to run Choice Specs / Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse / Aura Sphere / Vaccum Wave or HP Ice.

Also, what did I tell you about using EVs from Smogon? Needs more defense. Some of them are ok, but you're taking a big chance there. Study the EVS, or test them out on a battle simulator, and modify them. Either way, you're going to have to modify them. :/


Ok thanks I'll try that out and change it later.

Pulse
02-28-2008, 02:16 PM
I agree with the weavile revenge killing thing, I personaly use my Weavile as a revenge killer nothing more. To me Weavile is built to do that. Weather it is enough or not enough, it does the job to end the life of Scarchomp and then could be usefull later. Garchomp is best taken care of with Donphan and the such.
Then why wouldn't you mention this beforehand...?

Also, My bad again, I ment Spec-Z @ timid the one I run, 306 Speed 369 sp.atk.
...

Outlawed
02-29-2008, 06:26 AM
Then why wouldn't you mention this beforehand...?

...

My Bad ^_^"
any way the team is starting to look better now.

Stubby Boardman
02-29-2008, 11:19 AM
My Bad ^_^"
any way the team is starting to look better now.

Thanks because it's from all the help everyone has been giving me.

Itachi_2007
02-29-2008, 08:15 PM
Infernape's Smogon EVS are fine, I like Flamethrower for more accuracy, plus you already have NP + STAB to work with. Edit: Oh yeah, the fact is, just a majority of Smogon'd EVS are not ok, not all.

Stubby Boardman
02-29-2008, 08:17 PM
Infernape's Smogon EVS are fine, I like Flamethrower for more accuracy, plus you already have NP + STAB to work with. Edit: Oh yeah, the fact is, just a majority of Smogon'd EVS are not ok, not all.

ok thanks

I'm going to update first post now.

Itachi_2007
02-29-2008, 08:31 PM
Life Orb is a good choice if you know when to switch into your Infernape, and then cause a free switch turn to use Nasty Plot. Vappy still kills with Surf if EV'd right, though. Did I mention this before? But yeah, otherwise, if you don't know how to do this correctly, just use Focus Sash.

Stubby Boardman
02-29-2008, 10:47 PM
Life Orb is a good choice if you know when to switch into your Infernape, and then cause a free switch turn to use Nasty Plot. Vappy still kills with Surf if EV'd right, though. Did I mention this before? But yeah, otherwise, if you don't know how to do this correctly, just use Focus Sash.

I don't think you did thanks for the advice.

J-Dubb
02-29-2008, 11:27 PM
.

Lucario@choice specs/life orb
nature: timid or modest
ability: Steadfast
evs: max spatk and spd
move1: dark pulse
move2: Aura Sphere
move3: dragon pulse
move4: shadow ball/vacuum wave/Hiddon Power if good one

Well this is my special sweeper but I'm still unsure of the last two attacks. I think life orb will be a better item but extra speed or special attack may not be that bad.


Use Vaccum wave so if can hit first to kill of weaker pokemon also choice specs is best on him.

Stubby Boardman
03-05-2008, 08:41 PM
.

Lucario@choice specs/life orb
nature: timid or modest
ability: Steadfast
evs: max spatk and spd
move1: dark pulse
move2: Aura Sphere
move3: dragon pulse
move4: shadow ball/vacuum wave/Hiddon Power if good one

Well this is my special sweeper but I'm still unsure of the last two attacks. I think life orb will be a better item but extra speed or special attack may not be that bad.


Use Vaccum wave so if can hit first to kill of weaker pokemon also choice specs is best on him.

Thanks for the suggestions. You've really helped.

Spongebob Number One Fan
03-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Focus Sash is a disgrace to pokemon. It NEVER works. Really, I'd like to see how Infernape does with a focus Sash...let's see what beats it up:

-spikes
-SR
-hail
-sandstorm
-toxispikes/damage inflicting status

Not to mention that it'll probably take damage switch in. Also priority moves waste sashers. Even pokemon like Lucario that are immune to sandstorm and toxic...it's still too risky and not to mention not really worth it if it does work.

In short, Life Orb on Infernape. Also stuff you'd normally OHKO like suicune will scare you quite a bit more. It needs the power.

Stubby Boardman
03-05-2008, 10:04 PM
Focus Sash is a disgrace to pokemon. It NEVER works. Really, I'd like to see how Infernape does with a focus Sash...let's see what beats it up:

-spikes
-SR
-hail
-sandstorm
-toxispikes/damage inflicting status

Not to mention that it'll probably take damage switch in. Also priority moves waste sashers. Even pokemon like Lucario that are immune to sandstorm and toxic...it's still too risky and not to mention not really worth it if it does work.

In short, Life Orb on Infernape. Also stuff you'd normally OHKO like suicune will scare you quite a bit more. It needs the power.

Focus sash leaves the pokemon with one hit point left if it has full hp so if I start off with Infernape spikes, stealth rocks, and toxic spikes won't harm Infernape. The only thing I would have to worry about is that I don't KO a pokemon that knows sandstorm or hail right away and for the three pokemon that have the ability for hail and sandstorm I would be screwed that way but other then that Infernape can manage.

Life Orb is a very good item for an Infernape to have. I personally will test both items out and will make my decision from there. Thanks for the help.

Spongebob Number One Fan
03-06-2008, 07:18 PM
Focus sash leaves the pokemon with one hit point left if it has full hp so if I start off with Infernape spikes, stealth rocks, and toxic spikes won't harm Infernape. The only thing I would have to worry about is that I don't KO a pokemon that knows sandstorm or hail right away and for the three pokemon that have the ability for hail and sandstorm I would be screwed that way but other then that Infernape can manage.

Life Orb is a very good item for an Infernape to have. I personally will test both items out and will make my decision from there. Thanks for the help.

No, I am no #1 fan of Life Orb, but Focus Sash will not work. Hippowdon is a VERY common lead and you can't OHKO with Grass Knot without a Nasty Plot under your belt. The problem with "testing" Focus Sash is that it is very situational, so somebody might have no SR/Spikes/status/weather and you could play 100 types of those players in a row and tghink focus sash is amazing, or just the opposite.

Not only is focus sash terrible, but you lose the ability to OHKO a few waters who you would otherwise defeat, and they can turn the tables on Infernape.

Also even if Infernape leads, a counter can just switch in, scare it away, and watch the spikes fall onto the battlefield. What I'm trying to say is, you can test it if you want, but it really isn't worth your time and these "tests" are often unreliable or fluky.

Stubby Boardman
03-06-2008, 10:55 PM
No, I am no #1 fan of Life Orb, but Focus Sash will not work. Hippowdon is a VERY common lead and you can't OHKO with Grass Knot without a Nasty Plot under your belt. The problem with "testing" Focus Sash is that it is very situational, so somebody might have no SR/Spikes/status/weather and you could play 100 types of those players in a row and tghink focus sash is amazing, or just the opposite.

Not only is focus sash terrible, but you lose the ability to OHKO a few waters who you would otherwise defeat, and they can turn the tables on Infernape.

Also even if Infernape leads, a counter can just switch in, scare it away, and watch the spikes fall onto the battlefield. What I'm trying to say is, you can test it if you want, but it really isn't worth your time and these "tests" are often unreliable or fluky.

Ok thanks alot for the info.