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Marth
02-25-2008, 01:53 AM
No, I haven't talked with Jack about the subject yet.
But I found the following posts in the URPG archives:

In here, Jack states that Magare needs to defeat 3 more elites in order to become champion:
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showpost.php?p=230490&postcount=15
This was when Magare defeated JT, his first elite.
Thread:
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?p=230490#post230490

In this other post, Jack says Ball has two elites left to go, after he defeated his second elite.
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showpost.php?p=664872&postcount=9
This is the thread:
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?p=664872#post664872

In neither post Jack implies that there must be a fifth elite, or a champion, to be fought in order to achieve Championship.

I know you are looking forward to fighting me, Mike, but I'd rather be on the other end of the line if we do. Besides, you are limited to 10 Pokémon if you defend, and in the championship battle, we are not.

Fenix
02-25-2008, 02:16 AM
In neither post does Jack say "Two more battles left until you are champion."

I can't say what Jack's opinion is since I am not him, but he could be implying that they had almost defeated the Elite Four, leading up to the Champion.

Anyway, it makes sense to fight the Champion, or in this case, someone standing in for him/her.

In the games, you beat the Elite Four, then a fifth person; Gary the Champion in R/B/Y, Steven in R/S, Cynthia in D/P.

It's the same concept here.

Marth
02-25-2008, 03:40 AM
In neither post does Jack say "Two more battles left until you are champion."

I can't say what Jack's opinion is since I am not him, but he could be implying that they had almost defeated the Elite Four, leading up to the Champion.

Anyway, it makes sense to fight the Champion, or in this case, someone standing in for him/her.

In the games, you beat the Elite Four, then a fifth person; Gary the Champion in R/B/Y, Steven in R/S, Cynthia in D/P.

It's the same concept here.
Neither he says "Two more battles left until you fight the champion."
I am not debating what should happen after the elite four are defeated in the games, we have already discussed that. I'm posting what should happen in the URPG, according to Jack.
Through all the years that I have been in the URPG, Magare, Ball and Jack have always refered to only defeating 4 elites for championship. Quite frankly, the whole concept of fighting a fifth elite as the replacement of FIggy is something that was brought a few days ago. It was unheard of, and if Jack had thought about it, he would have specified who would be the fifth battle many years ago, don't you think? Or at least edited it in the rules in some way for everyone to know. Again, in the moderator boards, there is a post in which he calls the fifth elite "a replacement", as if it were not necesary for the challenger to fight the fifth of them.

EDIT:
The idea of having a champion was suggested before:
Meh, for Champion, why not just pick someone like we pick people to be the E4? I mean, think about it: in-game, you always beat the E4 and then the Champ, who is chosen before you even start the game lol. Basically, we just choose a good battler and make them the Champ. Maybe Marth should be the Champion? Then we can find four other people to be the E4. Mike, Fing, Fenix, ball, Yami, Adam, and a few others would prolly make good E4 members. So:

Mike
Ball
Yami
Adam

And then Marth as Champion.

Or something along those lines XD.

At which Jack replied with:

"Mike, Marth, Ball, Younglink, Fenix

I guess Fenix is a bit more active. Anyway, I'm happy. These five can fight over who gets to be the spare Elite. All we need is the elite teams edited into the Gym stats and a big ol' announcement made.

~Jack~"
Note how he says "spare" as if it wasn't necessary to fight him."

Then Matt with:
What's going on with the quote system?

And Jack: That looks good, but is fing back on the ball enough to be a competitor? I hadn't noticed him battling too much, but then again I don't pay the closest attention. Adam and Yami also sounds good, as back ups at least, but Marth, ball and Mike are a given.

And do you think we should have a champion? I mean figgy's long gone, why not let the competitors go through the elite 4 first, and the first one to make it we can set as champion? It will take a while to get there...



And do you think we should have a champion? I mean figgy's long gone, why not let the competitors go through the elite 4 first, and the first one to make it we can set as champion? It will take a while to get there...
Yeah, agreed.

And lastly, Jack's last post on the subject:
"Mike, Marth, Ball, Younglink, Fenix

I guess Fenix is a bit more active. Anyway, I'm happy. These five can fight over who gets to be the spare Elite. All we need is the elite teams edited into the Gym stats and a big ol' announcement made.

~Jack~"

Spare elite. Not champion or fifth elite. Jack did not approve the "fifth elite" or "temporary champion" idea, instead, he implemented the spare elite, which was fing until he left.

Fenix
02-25-2008, 04:06 AM
The "fifth Elite" was meant to exist for the purpose of fighting the other members of the Elite Four who wished to pursue a position as "Champion," if I recall correctly.

Anyway, I don't think speculating about what Jack wants will get us anywhere, so I don't think I'll be posting in here any more until a decision is made via the voting polls, or Jack himself speaks up.

Edit:

I started typing this before you edited your post. I'd like to know what the reply to Matt's question is, because it seems like that would be a prospective answer to our problem now.

Edit 2: You edited again while I was editing mine, but I'm not going to debate this farther. We either go with the decisions made in the recent polls or we wait for Jack. No need to make such a huge issue out of it.

Marth
02-25-2008, 04:17 AM
The "fifth Elite" was meant to exist for the purpose of fighting the other members of the Elite Four who wished to pursue a position as "Champion," if I recall correctly.

Anyway, I don't think speculating about what Jack wants will get us anywhere, so I don't think I'll be posting in here any more until a decision is made via the voting polls, or Jack himself speaks up.

Edit:

I started typing this before you edited your post. I'd like to know what the reply to Matt's question is, because it seems like that would be a prospective answer to our problem now.

Edit 2: You edited again while I was editing mine, but I'm not going to debate this farther. We either go with the decisions made in the recent polls or we wait for Jack. No need to make such a huge issue out of it.
I'm not speculating anymore... well, I was... but since I found the evidence in my second post, I'm rather waitting an objection from anyone about it.

FireflyK
02-25-2008, 04:18 AM
Hmm...

All the posts I saw Jack make mentioned a 'spare' elite. That doesn't really sound like a champion, IMHO. Wasn't it decided that the Champion would have to earn their place?

Obviously, things do get changed, and ideas are revised... But to change this right when teh first person has beat the Elite Four seems rather cheap. If you want to change a rule, obviously, yeah, that's allowed... And recommended if mods/authority figures see something in need of revising. But putting out what seems like a completed system, then changing it only once someone has passed through all the obstacles in it, is totally unfair.

If you all really want a champion, now's the best time, anyway. Marth beat the E4, which by right should make him the current champion. That, in turn, gives y'all a person for whoever else beats the E4 to go up against. Seems like the best, fairest solution to me.

Smurf
02-25-2008, 04:36 AM
Marth, this is SPAM. Stupid, pointless, annoying. You're simply putting words into Jack's mouth because you can't stand that you're not getting something you've wasted your time over the years doing. You're SPAMing these boards as far as I'm concerned and that's disgraceful for a mod, just as disgraceful as putting words URPG Head Official's mouth is.

All of you should be ashamed of yourself, anyone who tried to figure out what he would think. He did not make it clear, obviously, or else there wouldn't be interpretation.

And I'm going to make public what I told you and Tracy. I'm sick of it. I will be challenging the elites under a time limit(before this is all sorted out) and be defeating you for the position. My reason is to simply shut you up, because you're making this into something ridiculous. >_>

EmBreon
02-25-2008, 04:40 AM
Those seemed more to be ideas tossed around, no set in stone rules or anything...

I am no Official, but my opinion on this issue is that you should fight a fifth regardless of what Jack has (not) said.

If this somehow ends up getting approved that you are called Champion by only defeating four, then congrats to you, but a good amount of the URPG population would agree that a true Champion would complete the Elite Four and a Champion before he claimed the name for himself instead of trying to find a way to avoid the final fight. What is the purpose of even having the title if no one but you will respect it?

Using the excuse that Figgy is not here seems kind of cheap to me. Someone like you should be confident in their ability to battle, and if loss is what you fear, then it is practically like scamming the system to claim yourself champ so you don’t have to risk it. If I am wrong, and this is not the issue, then I see no point to all of these debate threads when you could just finish the process and become the true Champion.

I apologize if I have overstepped my bounds; I just couldn’t resist saying something about this…

Marth
02-25-2008, 04:51 AM
Those seemed more to be ideas tossed around, no set in stone rules or anything...

I am no Official, but my opinion on this issue is that you should fight a fifth regardless of what Jack has (not) said.

If this somehow ends up getting approved that you are called Champion by only defeating four, then congrats to you, but a good amount of the URPG population would agree that a true Champion would complete the Elite Four and a Champion before he claimed the name for himself instead of trying to find a way to avoid the final fight. What is the purpose of even having the title if no one but you will respect it?

Using the excuse that Figgy is not here seems kind of cheap to me. Someone like you should be confident in their ability to battle, and if loss is what you fear, then it is practically like scamming the system to claim yourself champ so you don’t have to risk it. If I am wrong, and this is not the issue, then I see no point to all of these debate threads when you could just finish the process and become the true Champion.

I apologize if I have overstepped my bounds; I just couldn’t resist saying something about this…
Not at all, as I posted before "I'm rather waiting an objection from anyone about it.", even if it's a biig stone thrown at me, as Josh's post.

I am confident in my ability as a battler. Heck, I was as desperate as challenging Josh even before the previous poll was approved. I have annoyed Mike to the limit by challenging his elite position many times by now.

It's mainly frustration of not being able to do so. I'm being obstaculized (sp?) by bureaucratic processes (the polls) and I'm using a bureaucratic (Jack's posts) resource as the means to countering it.

I was told that Mike wishes to handle me himself, and I think that's why this fuss about the fifth battle began. Himself agreed before that the first to defeat the elites was to become champion before. He could have changed his mind for all I know, but I'm tired of waitting.

God knows I'd take on anyone anytime as long as it allowed me to become champion. That didn't work, so I'm trying through another way. If I do become champion, anyone can challenge me any day, and that would certainly prove whether I'm worthy of the title, if I survive long enough.

And Josh, about my obsession and stubbornness on the subject... there's nothing like some URPG drama, as Yami would say.

EDIT: A full 6 vs 6 battle between the 2 persons that aspire to the title seems much more better than just fighting someone twice, and then there's the issue of "I beat elites first I fight fifth first". It would be like Gary fighting Ash, Josh, but just after both defeated Lance. Aren't you up to it?

Marth
02-25-2008, 05:08 AM
As it has been replied, there's no further point of prolonging this fight. What I have stated in the thread still stands, I do not regret it. But it's futile, I'm sorry for the inconvenience, and I sincererly am ashamed of my desperate attempt. Thread closed.