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Beetzo
02-28-2008, 10:41 PM
I was wondering, because I always hate when people switch to Blissey. Oh, and don't say that you should switch to a Physical Sweeper, because the opponent will switch; also don't say to explode it.

dud3
02-28-2008, 10:50 PM
Well What you do is have a mix sweeper. Or you can just roar it away. There are so many ways you just gotta see some of the opponents team first, To predict what they are gonna do. Once you know about 3 pokes. YOu can nearly predict what they are gonna do.

Tasteless
02-28-2008, 10:54 PM
But it's the truth. You /do/ switch to a physical sweeper, and then you know they're going to switch out, so you can switch at the same time to something else. Predict what they're going to switch into your sweeper and take advantage.

Spongebob Number One Fan
02-28-2008, 11:14 PM
A physical sweeper is the only way to beat Blissey though besides outstalling it and a few other kinda meh tactics and stuff I can't think of at the moment.

If you know a switch is coming, react. Don't just let them outpredict you all day.

Really picking on that 10 base Def is by far your best bet.

Tory vs Meaty II
02-28-2008, 11:17 PM
Machamp = GOLD.

Cucumber
02-28-2008, 11:40 PM
Well you see there is this amazing pokemon named Infernape who is amazing for this problam!

Infernape@Life orb
Naive nature
24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
~Nasty plot
~Close combat
~Grass knot/ Hp[ice]
~Flamethrower

Once bliss is switching because it is scared nasty plot up and finish your work!

Haze
02-29-2008, 01:25 AM
Gliscor works well for me as a Bliss counter. Swords Dance first turn to scare it. Bliss thinks its gonna be hit with Earthquake after you Swords Dance, making it switch out. Then with the free attack you use Agility, then Baton Pass to a Physical Sweeper. Works well for me, although Im not sure how well it would do for others.

Fire Away
02-29-2008, 01:57 AM
I'm not sure I understand your post, TC. :|

I mean, switching in x Pokemon to defeat y Pokemon is how you counter everything.

You could get some mons to Pursuit it on a switch, but IIRC none of the mons that get it are powerful enough to OHKO.

Jesus of Magikarps
02-29-2008, 02:04 AM
TyraniBoah is probably one of the best Blissey counters out there.

Tyranitar w/ Leftovers
Quiet Nature
252 HP / 188 SpAttack / 68 Speed
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch
~ Dark Pulse / Crunch
~ Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Haze
02-29-2008, 02:29 AM
I'm not sure I understand your post, TC. :|

I mean, switching in x Pokemon to defeat y Pokemon is how you counter everything.

You could get some mons to Pursuit it on a switch, but IIRC none of the mons that get it are powerful enough to OHKO.

Ramparados gets it. It might be able to OKHO it with Pursuit

Outlawed
02-29-2008, 06:27 AM
The only way to efficiently beat a blissey is to hit it with a physical attacks. Mixed sweepers such as mixed Luke and Mixape really do it well.

Fire Away
02-29-2008, 06:29 AM
The only way to efficiently beat a blissey is to hit it with a physical attacks. Mixed sweepers such as mixed Luke and Mixape really do it well.

You do realize that Specs Luke can 2HKO Blissey as well, right?

Making splitting EVs for a mixed set detrimental? >_>

Dude7
02-29-2008, 06:38 AM
I Had This Problem When I Was Battling My Friend
He Switches To Blissey And Then I'm Screwed

Teach Any Pokemon The TM : Brick Break
It Is Strong - Has Good PP - Good Accuracy
A Lot Of Pokemon Can Learn Brick Break ... I Think

Ataro
02-29-2008, 08:06 AM
Try Taunt + Toxic, it should work relatively well.

Fire Away
02-29-2008, 08:10 AM
Try Taunt + Toxic, it should work relatively well.

Natural Cure says hi.

This is really only good if your opponent literally has no answer to [random sweeper that gets both of those moves] other than Blissey, and must keep her out or they'll get 6-0'ed.

Ataro
02-29-2008, 08:16 AM
Natural Cure says hi.

This is really only good if your opponent literally has no answer to [random sweeper that gets both of those moves] other than Blissey, and must keep her out or they'll get 6-0'ed.

Then you'll have to employ Crobat in. Start off with Taunt to block any indirect moves, which the Blissey most probably won't expect, since most Crobats are used as sweepers. Even as a Hypnosis bat, the Blissey might not switch, provided the Blissey is equipped with a Lum Berry. After that, if everything goes well, go with a Mean Look. Now, it can't use indirect moves and cannot switch.

Finally, use Toxic to kill it slowly. You might have to be careful with Taunt since it only lasts a couple of turns, and try to Taunt it back again when Taunt ends, because T-Wave is just too dangerous. For your last move slot, you can try Rest, equipped with a Chesto Berry. Use Rest only after you are on low health and maybe with a status condition, and Chesto heals it immediately. Either that, or make use of your stab Cross Poison/Aerial Ace.

Trying my best to help here. :tongue:

EDIT: But actually, for Taunt to go first, there's still a high chance of Blissey switching. You can try Mean Look first, then Taunt. If T-Wave is used against you, you'll just have to depend on your hold item - Lum Berry to help you, but that will be your only chance.

Fire Away
02-29-2008, 08:21 AM
Then you'll have to employ Crobat in. Start off with Taunt to block any indirect moves, which the Blissey most probably won't expect, since most Crobats are used as sweepers. Even as a Hypnosis bat, the Blissey might not switch, provided the Blissey is equipped with a Lum Berry. After that, if everything goes well, go with a Mean Look. Now, it can't use indirect moves and cannot switch.

Finally, use Toxic to kill it slowly. You might have to be careful with Taunt since it only lasts a couple of turns, and try to Taunt it back again when Taunt ends, because T-Wave is just too dangerous. For your last move slot, you can try Rest, equipped with a Chesto Berry. Use Rest only after you are on low health and maybe with a status condition, and Chesto heals it immediately. Either that, or make use of your stab Cross Poison/Aerial Ace.

Trying my best to help here. :tongue:

EDIT: But actually, for Taunt to go first, there's still a high chance of Blissey switching. You can try Mean Look first, then Taunt. If T-Wave is used against you, you'll just have to depend on your hold item - Lum Berry to help you, but that will be your only chance.

Seismic Toss will KO faster than Toxic. You'll need a physical attack to use on top of it. Still, Ice Beam/T-bolt Bliss will give you problems.

The fact is, Blissey can give Crobat too much trouble for it to really 'counter' it. If anything I'd say you want Roost more than Rest on that set -- it'll remove your flying type so you won't be raped by Ice Beam or T-bolt, and stops Blissey from just Seismic Tossing you.

Liquor Cabinet
03-01-2008, 02:41 PM
Not sure how it would make out against a S-Toss Blissey but if you wanted to explore the Toxic+Taunt combo you could use an umbereon,

Umbereon @ Leftovers
Bold 252hp, 96 def, 160 sdef
-Toxic
-Taunt
-Meanlook
-Wish

1.Meanlook
2.Wish/Taunt
3.Toxic
4.Wish
5.Taunt
etc

might work out?

Fire Away
03-01-2008, 03:25 PM
Not sure how it would make out against a S-Toss Blissey but if you wanted to explore the Toxic+Taunt combo you could use an umbereon,

Umbereon @ Leftovers
Bold 252hp, 96 def, 160 sdef
-Toxic
-Taunt
-Meanlook
-Wish

1.Meanlook
2.Wish/Taunt
3.Toxic
4.Wish
5.Taunt
etc

might work out?

Meh, Umbreon is kinda deadweight on a lot of teams anyways. That probably would work, but that's like 50 turns of set-up to kill one Pokemon, when you could just switch in a Metagross or something.

Dude7
03-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Hello

Tyranitar With Brick Break + Good EV Training = Dead Blisseys

Fire Away
03-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Hello

Tyranitar With Brick Break + Good EV Training = Dead Blisseys

Tyranitar's Stone Edge hits Blissey just as hard and you're not sacrificing a moveslot specifically to hit Blissey.

Dude7
03-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Tyranitar's Stone Edge hits Blissey just as hard and you're not sacrificing a moveslot specifically to hit Blissey.
Brick Break Also Hits Barriers and All The Miltanks And The Other Normal Types

Fire Away
03-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Brick Break Also Hits Barriers and All The Miltanks And The Other Normal Types

Um

Stone Edge will hit normal types just as hard as Brick Break.

The only real purpose is to break Light Screens/Reflects, which aren't really common enough to warrant an entire moveslot.

Dude7
03-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Um

Stone Edge will hit normal types just as hard as Brick Break.

The only real purpose is to break Light Screens/Reflects, which aren't really common enough to warrant an entire moveslot.
I Know That
But The Accuracy Of Stone Edge Is Low And The PP Is Low Too

Fire Away
03-01-2008, 05:40 PM
I Know That
But The Accuracy Of Stone Edge Is Low And The PP Is Low Too

8 PP is pretty much all you need. :|

Flygon Ruler
03-01-2008, 10:59 PM
Mixnape is great Skarmbliss counter although that combo has dissappeared recently. I find Breloom to be a fun Blissey counter. You can put it to sleep and then batter it or predict a switch and then, because most Blissey's have Nature Cure, put the next pokemon asleep...

Cucumber
03-04-2008, 07:33 PM
Hello

Tyranitar With Brick Break + Good EV Training = Dead Blisseys

Hello you know its called prediction! You cant count only t-tar for this probalm if so use the tairaniboa set

Dark_Azelf
03-08-2008, 10:08 PM
No one mentioned Taunt Tran/Wall breaking heatran ?


Heatran@Life Orb
Hasty/Mild Nature
252 SP.ATT / 240 SPEED / 16 HP
- Taunt
- Explosion / Metal Sound
- Fire Blast
- Earth power / Hidden power [ice/Electric/grass]

Taunt nullifies twave, Softboiled etc and after a Metal Sound Fire Blast is a 2hko on standard bliss, or you can just blow the hell up on it if they try and be clever and run Calm nature and close to max sp.def (which are increasing in use lately), sup to you=)



Boah and Mixape are awesome aswell.

toybox
03-08-2008, 10:26 PM
TyraniBoah is probably one of the best Blissey counters out there.

Tyranitar w/ Leftovers
Quiet Nature
252 HP / 188 SpAttack / 68 Speed
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch
~ Dark Pulse / Crunch
~ Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Srsly....
Tyraniboah is horrible, the set itself is absolutely utter trash.


Just switch in CBTar or any Guts fighter, Blissey is no more.

The Maple Syrup Baptist
03-08-2008, 10:38 PM
Adamant CB Slaking with Hammer Arm?

Itachi_2007
03-09-2008, 12:19 PM
As someone on the first page, Machamp is a great counter. I've been testing it out on my UU / NU Team.

shedinjask
03-09-2008, 12:58 PM
Tyraniboah is a great set. An amazing wall breaking set that takes down common Tar counters. Boah is fine for Bliss.

Blackmag228
03-10-2008, 01:44 AM
I am utterly shocked, not one person has said dugtrio. The person is worrying about blissey switching when you bring in a physical attacker. Dugtrio traps with arena trap and destroys with stab EQ...

Master Aqua
03-10-2008, 08:26 AM
I am utterly shocked, not one person has said dugtrio. The person is worrying about blissey switching when you bring in a physical attacker. Dugtrio traps with arena trap and destroys with stab EQ...

blissey uses counter and dugtrio faints thats why dugtrio is a bad counter its because people are naive enough to think there is not such a thing as counter blissey !!!!


http://www.psypokes.com/dex/damage.php The proof that it will not work.


An infernape is the best counter it gets rid of skarmbliss

Fire Away
03-10-2008, 08:28 AM
blissey uses counter and dugtrio faints thats why dugtrio is a bad counter its because people are naive enough to think there is not such a thing as counter blissey !!!!


http://www.psypokes.com/dex/damage.php The proof that it will not work.

Because Counter Blissey is so common. :|

CB Dugtrio isn't a counter, btw, since it can only revenge kill Blissey. Otherwise it risks switching in to Ice Beam.

BLAZIKEN_EMY
03-10-2008, 08:46 AM
..... Um For Me....... Fighting Attack Types Like Blaziken Can Counter Blissets....

Blackmag228
03-10-2008, 11:18 AM
A blissey won't have Ice Beam and counter on the same moveset 75%ish of the time...
And if you see it has counter earlier, why use duggy at that point. I'm not saying he's like god and should be the only thing on his team with something to kill blissey, but with prediction IMO he's awesome.

Edit: Heatran using magma storm can trap it and kill it with explosion too, if you're willing to sacrifice heatran.

pelikow
03-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Some people are saying silly things in this thread!

Just because it OHKO's Blissey doesn't mean she's going to give them an easy time switching in.
This is why bulky things generally work better.
Hariyama and Machamp are among the best; Machamp can come in relatively easy and hit the next thing that comes out hard. Hariyama does this too, but you might find it more timeworthy if you start knocking off things, or focus punching!
CBGross is great, and so is Restalk gross. CB in particular also threatens Blissey with Pursuit.
CMJirachi and CMMismagius work generally well, but Mismagius won't like paralysis at all (not that Jirachi will, but it will be less bothered).

Someone mentioned Tyranitar which isn't too shabby either! But you pretty much need to be careful for Sing / Toxic / Thunder Wave all the time, which is why Restalk Champ / Gross / Yama might be your best options if you're looking to scare it out from the bat.

Fire Away
03-10-2008, 07:15 PM
A blissey won't have Ice Beam and counter on the same moveset 75%ish of the time...
And if you see it has counter earlier, why use duggy at that point. I'm not saying he's like god and should be the only thing on his team with something to kill blissey, but with prediction IMO he's awesome.

Edit: Heatran using magma storm can trap it and kill it with explosion too, if you're willing to sacrifice heatran.

I wasn't saying Counter was common, but Ice Beam is. Dugtrio is taking well over 80% just switching in, while all he can do is 2HKO Bliss.

Even if Seismic Tosses on the switch, she can Ice Beam the next turn to KO.

Itachi_2007
03-10-2008, 09:03 PM
Some people are saying silly things in this thread!

Just because it OHKO's Blissey doesn't mean she's going to give them an easy time switching in.
This is why bulky things generally work better.
Hariyama and Machamp are among the best; Machamp can come in relatively easy and hit the next thing that comes out hard. Hariyama does this too, but you might find it more timeworthy if you start knocking off things, or focus punching!
CBGross is great, and so is Restalk gross. CB in particular also threatens Blissey with Pursuit.
CMJirachi and CMMismagius work generally well, but Mismagius won't like paralysis at all (not that Jirachi will, but it will be less bothered).

Someone mentioned Tyranitar which isn't too shabby either! But you pretty much need to be careful for Sing / Toxic / Thunder Wave all the time, which is why Restalk Champ / Gross / Yama might be your best options if you're looking to scare it out from the bat.

That's why we have clerics. Resttalk Machamp or similar pokes can also do the job. Blissey won't doing much to them, either.

Tory vs Meaty II
03-10-2008, 09:15 PM
That's why we have clerics. Resttalk Machamp or similar pokes can also do the job. Blissey won't doing much to them, either.

As someone on the first page, Machamp is a great counter. I've been testing it out on my UU / NU Team.

Yeah, someone else agrees that Machamp is GOLD!

Lord Voldemort
03-10-2008, 09:57 PM
Or you can use Electivire if you're scared of Thunder Wave.
Cross Chop should work well.

EDIT: Nevermind, it 2HKOs with Expert Belt.

Spongebob Number One Fan
03-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Well we might have clerics but remember Itachi, this is for a 100% way to counter Blissey without support.

Blissey also gets wasted by Cursing Snorlax, no matter how bad it has become. It can rest off Status and all that other nasty damage and unleash some power STAB attacks.

Most fighters will work too. Also counter Blissey only works once, after that it really is pretty bad. Even if it kills your physical sweeper, by then you can just bring in another counter (since a lot of things can beat Blissey).

Anything with Explosion will usually work as long as its attack isn't like Shuckle's. You can also outstall Blissey which isn't very tough to do really.

EDIT: Electivire still counters blissey even though it doesn't OHKO. That's why I prefer Choice Banding electivire though.

Itachi_2007
03-10-2008, 11:46 PM
Well we might have clerics but remember Itachi, this is for a 100% way to counter Blissey without support.

Blissey also gets wasted by Cursing Snorlax, no matter how bad it has become. It can rest off Status and all that other nasty damage and unleash some power STAB attacks.

Most fighters will work too. Also counter Blissey only works once, after that it really is pretty bad. Even if it kills your physical sweeper, by then you can just bring in another counter (since a lot of things can beat Blissey).

Anything with Explosion will usually work as long as its attack isn't like Shuckle's. You can also outstall Blissey which isn't very tough to do really.

EDIT: Electivire still counters blissey even though it doesn't OHKO. That's why I prefer Choice Banding electivire though.

Doesn't Resttalk work as a well? That was another option listed, and doesn't always need Cleric support since it is usually run with Guts. CC = doom for Blissey.

Dog of Hellsing
03-11-2008, 01:25 AM
Wow there are so many things that can counter Blissey w/o support it's not funny >>...

Let's see here...Any Physical Sweeper with Brick Break holding an Expert Belt or Life Orb or something should OHKO. Breloom with Sky Uppercut holding Expert Belt does type advantage damage and gets STAB, and then you add in that extra 20% from EB, that should be a OHKO. Then again, if you're playing OU, you'd want something else like Infernape.

Really, any Physical Sweeper should be able to OHKO Bliss w/o the help of EB or LO or any other Hold Items. It might have an arseload of HP, but such a horrid Defense stat, all that HP doesn't really help it.

Someone mentioned Sing, which I wouldn't worry about too much. Even with a Wide Lens or some other Accuracy-boosting Hold Item, most people wouldn't use Sing as their main Status-inducing move. They'll leave that to things like Yanmega and Gengar. Bliss relies more on T-Wave and Toxic, which aren't a problem if you want to use Starmie or something else with Natural Cure. If you get Status'ed, just switch out to something fast with Taunt (Weavile comes to mind). Or if you have a Ninjask, you can switch to it and get a Sub up, and a few SD's too while Bliss tries to break your Sub with Seismic Toss (I would think it would take a least a turn or two for that, right?). Once you've got good Attack (I'd shoot for a +6, keep reading), hit it with a X-Scissor or whatever attacking move your Jask has, it should OHKO. Then you can Baton Pass to the appropriate counter with Baton Pass when their next Mon comes out and sweep away (thus the reason for +6 Attack lol).

Another thing you can try is a Mon with Psycho Shift to hit Bliss with its own Status. When they go to use Aromatherapy or whatever, that gives you a free turn to do some sweeping on it.

If you're deathly afraid of T-Wave, you can always use a Mon with Limber, I suppose. And guess what perfect Mon gets it? Hitmonlee! Decent Speed and really good Attack, an awesome movepool, plus an Ability that totally shuts down one of Bliss's main strategies! If it's Toxic you're terrified of, send out something with Natural Cure or Heal Bell or something and see if you get Pata'd or Toxicated. If it's the latter, be prepared with a Steel Mon (Skarm anyone?) or something with Immunity. Only two Mon get that, those being Snorlax and Zangoose, and I think we all know which is the better of those two for sweeping. However, because you only have 6 available spots, and because I'm pretty sure most people use T-Wave more than Toxic on their Bliss, I'd say don't bother with all that "fishing" and just go with Lee. You'll prolly KO it before it can Para/Toxic you either way >>...If you want to make sure, I'd say put CC on it and give it Expert Belt (Lee's HP isn't really good enough for Life Orb when you take it's Defenses into account).

And before anyone wants to flame me for anything I've said, just note this: it's been a long time since I've played on a Gameboy or w/e, and I didn't get to play Pearl enough to get a good grip of competitve play for all the new moves and crap. However, I'm going to make up for that with SB, so eventually I'll be able to give better advice lol. However, Bliss hasn't changed much from the days of R/S/E. It still has the same weaknesses and the same moveset, because Bliss's only true use is as support.

Oh, BTW, other good counters for Bliss? Any good Ground Mon like Dugtrio, Swampert, or Rhyperior. That'll shut T-Wave down instantly, plus they all have strong Physical moves and the Attack to back them (with the plus of learning things like Swords Dance and Curse to make it better!). In fact, if you're playing OU and you're really worried about Bliss, you should already have some good Ground Mon or another (Garchomp is another excellent choice). Another good counter would be in Gengar: if the Bliss is packing Toxic it won't affect him and neither will Seismic Toss. Best thing here is to use Hypnosis: most likely your foe will switch, unless they're Bliss is using some move like Ice Beam or whatever instead of Seismic Toss. But if they don't switch, then Bliss gets put to Sleep, and then you have a free turn to do whatever while they either switch out (if they want to employ Natural Cure) or use Aromatherapy. Another note while we're on the subject of Special Attack Blissey (lol): a lot of the time they'll probably pack Ice Beam for the Ground Mon like Duggy and Garchomp who neutralize T-Wave. I'd suggest something like Swampert (part Water gives it some protection against Ice Beam) or Rhyperior (Solid Rock will really help you out since it lowers the damage taken from super-effective hits).

And another counter: any fast Mon with Substitute and even relatively okay Attack. I would still say Jask is your best bet for this, but if you need to switch into Bliss, you'll need something that can absorb the T-Wave/Toxic that it'll use that turn.

Meh. Blissey can be countered by all sorts of things. You just need to be smart about what you do. The best thing to do? Get on Shoddy Battle with a friend or one of us from here and have them use teams with Blissey on them. Find out what works best (for you) most of the time, and there ya go.

Again, before you flame, bear in mind I'm just getting into D/P metagame stuffs, but I do know enough to give somewhat decent advice on how to take care of Blissey, at least. ^^ And if you don't flame me, I'll give you cookies. However, polite and constructive criticsm of my comments would be welcomed, since it would help myself and the maker of this thread.

Black Hawk
03-11-2008, 01:52 AM
Wow there are so many things that can counter Blissey w/o support it's not funny >>...

Again, before you flame, bear in mind I'm just getting into D/P metagame stuffs, but I do know enough to give somewhat decent advice on how to take care of Blissey, at least. ^^ And if you don't flame me, I'll give you cookies. However, polite and constructive criticsm of my comments would be welcomed, since it would help myself and the maker of this thread.

WOW. how long did it take you to type that? O.o Oh yeah, cookies pl0x!

anyway, i experienced a counter bliss earlier today and it screwed the **** outta me. I never expect counter on those ******. I had the game in the bag, then they go and counter me. btw, Mixape=Blissey dead.

Lord Voldemort
03-11-2008, 02:00 AM
Really, any Physical Sweeper should be able to OHKO Bliss w/o the help of EB or LO or any other Hold Items. It might have an arseload of HP, but such a horrid Defense stat, all that HP doesn't really help it.

Actually, Blissey doesn't get OHKOed by much that's not SE.
And Ice Beam and T-Wave are really very crippling to a sweeper that doesn't get the OHKO.

Or if you have a Ninjask, you can switch to it and get a Sub up, and a few SD's too while Bliss tries to break your Sub with Seismic Toss (I would think it would take a least a turn or two for that, right?).

Negative on that. Ninjask's HP is far too pathetic to make a sub that lasts more than one turn.


My best bets are either Electivire or anything that can outspeed Blissey (which is a lot) and use Taunt.
Then you can switch to a Physical Sweeper, without fear of status.

Fire Away
03-11-2008, 04:48 AM
TyT: Most everything was spot on, but I still disagree about Dugtrio. His HP is so pathetic that he cannot switch in to Seismic Toss or Ice Beam. With a Choice Band, he can only 2HKO while Bliss is firing Ice Beams at him. You're also forgetting that Breloom's standard is a Sub+Focus Punch set, which will obviously OHKO anyways.

Lord Voldemort: OHKOing isn't that important. If you do over 56% with an attack, you'll 2HKO, even with Leftovers healing included. The fact is, to counter Blissey, you're switching something into it. If you have a Gallade out, Blissey isn't going to come rolling on to the field. You're risking an Ice Beam or T-Wave no matter what.

Rykeus
03-11-2008, 10:12 AM
countering a blissey is easy, what's harder is countering a Skarm-Bliss strategy. the user of this switches his blissey to skarmory, which is a physical wall, so any physical attacks aimed at blissey will be blocked by skarm. the most OU way to counter this strategy is Infernape. this is what you need.


Infernape: perfect IV's in attack, special attack, and speed

EV spread: 252 speed/ 129 attack/ 129 spec attack

moveset: Close Combat, Flamethrower, Grass knot, Flare Blitz


when you switch to Infernape to counter blissey, they'll mostly switch to a skarmory, so instead of attacking with Close Combat, attack with Flamethrower, the skarmory will be OHKO'd by it, then blissey is easily taken care of with Close Combat, you can use Grass Knot to take out starmies or Milotics, or any other water-type pokemon that could mean trouble for your Infernape.

Dog of Hellsing
03-11-2008, 03:14 PM
@ Black Hawk: Meh, about ten or so minutes. *Showers everyone with cookies.*

@ LV: Oo Ice Beam isn't really that much of a threat to most Physical Sweepers, unless they're Garchomp or Salamence or something lol. Blissey has okay Special Attack, but it's not monumental or anything. And there are people who play things like Life Orb or Leftovers on their Physical Sweepers, instead of going with the standard Choice items. If they switch in on Ice Beam they'll most likely NOT get OHKO'ed by it (unless Bliss is really freaking lucky) if you have at least 50-60% HP left, maybe less even, I really wouldn't know. You survive that first hit and can unleash some pain with happy Life Orb + Sweeper move. Or if you have Leftovers, it's going to be difficult for them to KO you in just a few turns if you've got decent Special Defense and no Ice weakness.

Now then, on to Jask. It might not have the most impressive HP or Defensive stats, but it's not as useless as you're making it out to be. The point is to pass Speed (and Attack if you can get a SD or two in) and then BP those stats to a proper Sweeper. You're not trying to pass the Sub as well, and if you're expecting to, you really need to stop and take a look at Jask's stats. Yes, there are times when your opponent is stupid and might leave a Sub intact long enough for you to pass it as well, but that happens very rarely. There are other BPers who can pass a Sub more effectively than Jask, but as I said, its main purpose is Speed passing.

Anyways, since most Bliss run Seismic Toss (it does hit more than either Ice Beam or Flamethrower, after all), all you do is let your current Mon absorb the Status they'll put on you (or switch to one who can take it; I forgot to mention last time, but Breloom has Poison Heal as an Ability, which heals the Pokemon when it's Poisoned, so Toxic becomes like a make-shift Aqua Ring or something lol. Then again I believe most people run T-Wave; it hits more Mon and has better Accuracy), then switch to Jask while they start Seismic Toss'ing. Jask CAN switch into Seismic Toss BTW, if you've given it the right HP EV spread for Sub-stalling. When your Jask comes in, they'll either do one of two things: a) be stupid and try to Status you while you Sub, giving you a free next turn for Swords Dance, or b) know you're going to Sub and just ST again. Still, you should be able to squeeze off at least one more Sub before you're forced to decide whether you want to attack or BP to something else. Though...I don't think Jask's HP matters in determining how long the Sub stays around, I think it's got to do with your Defenses and typing and such. I would think Sub could take at least two STs before fading. Then again, I wouldn't know XD.

However, I'll agree there are better things you can do than risk losing your Jask to something like this. Honestly, it's meant to be an opener, not come in after the game's been set up and try to pull of its moves then.

@ FA: Heh, Duggy has such horrid Defenses and HP it's scary. But you're going to be aiming on switching in on T-Wave, not ST or Ice Beam. If they're packing ST, you'll have at least one turn to get an SD in before you unleash happy destruction. If they have Ice Beam, well, you die XD. You could always be stupid and try a Fissure on them, I guess >>...

And I didn't forgot Loom's standard set, I was just pointing out that he could kill with Sky Uppercut. But yes, a standard Loom is death for Bliss. Hell, it can even ruin Skarm's fun because of Spore. Skarm still takes neutral damage from Fighting, and I think, at the very least, it would be 3HKO'ed by Focus Punch. Toss in Leech Seed and maybe it would even 2HKO, I wouldn't know, I've never used a standard Loom against a Skarm before lol.

@ Rykeus: Meh, if you switch out a Mixape like that, there's a VERY good chance your foe will out-prediect you, if they're smart. You think your Ape will scare them into switching for Skarm or some other crazy Physical Wall, and so you use Flamethrower. But they're expecting that and leave Bliss out, taking the FT and Paralyzing you. Then they either try to kill you or switch to something more capable of doing away with a Para'ed monkey lol.

It all comes down, basically, to out-predicting your foe. Maybe they will switch out, if they're worried about CC KO'ing their Bliss. Maybe they'll switch to something like Bronzong though, and then you end up getting put to Sleep by Hypnosis while Bronzong does whatever the hell it's on the team to do. You never know till it happens.

EDIT: OMG so much lingo in this post lol. *Is in a lazy mood this morning.*

Rykeus
03-11-2008, 06:31 PM
@ Black Hawk: Meh, about ten or so minutes. *Showers everyone with cookies.*

@ LV: Oo Ice Beam isn't really that much of a threat to most Physical Sweepers, unless they're Garchomp or Salamence or something lol. Blissey has okay Special Attack, but it's not monumental or anything. And there are people who play things like Life Orb or Leftovers on their Physical Sweepers, instead of going with the standard Choice items. If they switch in on Ice Beam they'll most likely NOT get OHKO'ed by it (unless Bliss is really freaking lucky) if you have at least 50-60% HP left, maybe less even, I really wouldn't know. You survive that first hit and can unleash some pain with happy Life Orb + Sweeper move. Or if you have Leftovers, it's going to be difficult for them to KO you in just a few turns if you've got decent Special Defense and no Ice weakness.

Now then, on to Jask. It might not have the most impressive HP or Defensive stats, but it's not as useless as you're making it out to be. The point is to pass Speed (and Attack if you can get a SD or two in) and then BP those stats to a proper Sweeper. You're not trying to pass the Sub as well, and if you're expecting to, you really need to stop and take a look at Jask's stats. Yes, there are times when your opponent is stupid and might leave a Sub intact long enough for you to pass it as well, but that happens very rarely. There are other BPers who can pass a Sub more effectively than Jask, but as I said, its main purpose is Speed passing.

Anyways, since most Bliss run Seismic Toss (it does hit more than either Ice Beam or Flamethrower, after all), all you do is let your current Mon absorb the Status they'll put on you (or switch to one who can take it; I forgot to mention last time, but Breloom has Poison Heal as an Ability, which heals the Pokemon when it's Poisoned, so Toxic becomes like a make-shift Aqua Ring or something lol. Then again I believe most people run T-Wave; it hits more Mon and has better Accuracy), then switch to Jask while they start Seismic Toss'ing. Jask CAN switch into Seismic Toss BTW, if you've given it the right HP EV spread for Sub-stalling. When your Jask comes in, they'll either do one of two things: a) be stupid and try to Status you while you Sub, giving you a free next turn for Swords Dance, or b) know you're going to Sub and just ST again. Still, you should be able to squeeze off at least one more Sub before you're forced to decide whether you want to attack or BP to something else. Though...I don't think Jask's HP matters in determining how long the Sub stays around, I think it's got to do with your Defenses and typing and such. I would think Sub could take at least two STs before fading. Then again, I wouldn't know XD.

However, I'll agree there are better things you can do than risk losing your Jask to something like this. Honestly, it's meant to be an opener, not come in after the game's been set up and try to pull of its moves then.

@ FA: Heh, Duggy has such horrid Defenses and HP it's scary. But you're going to be aiming on switching in on T-Wave, not ST or Ice Beam. If they're packing ST, you'll have at least one turn to get an SD in before you unleash happy destruction. If they have Ice Beam, well, you die XD. You could always be stupid and try a Fissure on them, I guess >>...

And I didn't forgot Loom's standard set, I was just pointing out that he could kill with Sky Uppercut. But yes, a standard Loom is death for Bliss. Hell, it can even ruin Skarm's fun because of Spore. Skarm still takes neutral damage from Fighting, and I think, at the very least, it would be 3HKO'ed by Focus Punch. Toss in Leech Seed and maybe it would even 2HKO, I wouldn't know, I've never used a standard Loom against a Skarm before lol.

@ Rykeus: Meh, if you switch out a Mixape like that, there's a VERY good chance your foe will out-prediect you, if they're smart. You think your Ape will scare them into switching for Skarm or some other crazy Physical Wall, and so you use Flamethrower. But they're expecting that and leave Bliss out, taking the FT and Paralyzing you. Then they either try to kill you or switch to something more capable of doing away with a Para'ed monkey lol.

It all comes down, basically, to out-predicting your foe. Maybe they will switch out, if they're worried about CC KO'ing their Bliss. Maybe they'll switch to something like Bronzong though, and then you end up getting put to Sleep by Hypnosis while Bronzong does whatever the hell it's on the team to do. You never know till it happens.

EDIT: OMG so much lingo in this post lol. *Is in a lazy mood this morning.*
well, that all depends on how smart your opponent is, no one can really "predict" their opponent's next move. risk plays a big part in most battles

Itachi_2007
03-11-2008, 07:49 PM
well, that all depends on how smart your opponent is, no one can really "predict" their opponent's next move. risk plays a big part in most battles

Once you know the opponents team, and possibly all the standard moves and crap, then you can probably predict anything the opponents going to do. Unless they're running a gimmick set, which hardly ever appear. Besides, running a gimmick set fails, I'd rather have a working set rather then something that would have a surprise factor for about 1-2 turns for a smart player. Shoddy's filled with great players. So you have to know your stuff.

soccerforward29
03-16-2008, 04:03 AM
Is this topic for real? Blissey isn't even that good. Garchomp is a better pokemon and has more options. Garchomp should have a counter thread if anything. btw if you can kill of the rest of the opponants team just have toxic spikes out and make it die of stall. Don't forget about perish trappers, like gengar.

Ultima Boss
03-16-2008, 04:19 AM
You do know that Blissey is one of (if not the) greatest Special Walls out there? With the highest HP base and 135 Special Defense base, not to mention Cleric capabilities, this 'topic' is for real.

Garchomp, however, is also a Pokemon to consider analyzing counters for, but he and Blissey play two different roles; not to mention the author wanted Blissey counters, not Garchomp, so we're giving him what he wants.

Dog of Hellsing
03-16-2008, 04:29 AM
:/ Dude, Garchomp dies to a lot of popular things. CBMence with Dragon Claw for example, or anything with decent Special Attack + Ice Beam. Hell, something with Taunt could stop it dead, if Chomp is slower: use Taunt to keep it from setting up, GG. Or a TrickZam: give an Alakazam a Choice Band or Choice Scarf or something + the move Trick, and when the battle starts Trick Garchomp. It'll most likely use Swords Dance or something to try and set up, but gets stuck with that move the rest of the game. Again, GG.

Now then, when you say "make the rest of the team die," no. Sorry, Toxic Spikes only Poisons the foe when they're switched out. Here's what happens: you lay down Toxic Spikes and your foe sends out Bronzong, who not only is immune to being Poison'ed, but also Rapid Spins away your T-Spikes and proceeds to wall you instead of you walling them. Let's not forgot the fact that Blissey ALWAYS carries Aromatherapy, so T-Spikes is foiled in that manner too. Plus other popular Steel Mon like Skarm make them useless. Stealth Rock is much better, since it hits Levitating/Flying foes, unlike Spikes/T-Spikes, and also hits the Mon who are immune to T-Spikes like Steel Mon.

Perish Trappers? Meh, only Ghosts would really be able to do that, because most Bliss carry Seismic Toss. So technically, you could stall for the two turns, then switch on the last one and KO Bliss. But there's always a chance that you might Mean Look the wrong thing: I know if I had a Bliss on the field and someone sent out a Ghost, I'd be switching in something else right away. Anytime someone sends a Ghost in against Bliss, it's most likely to Perish Trap it, so you can almost always be expecting a Mean Look from one.

Fire Away
03-16-2008, 05:32 AM
:/ Dude, Garchomp dies to a lot of popular things. CBMence with Dragon Claw for example, or anything with decent Special Attack + Ice Beam. Hell, something with Taunt could stop it dead, if Chomp is slower: use Taunt to keep it from setting up, GG. Or a TrickZam: give an Alakazam a Choice Band or Choice Scarf or something + the move Trick, and when the battle starts Trick Garchomp. It'll most likely use Swords Dance or something to try and set up, but gets stuck with that move the rest of the game. Again, GG.

Now then, when you say "make the rest of the team die," no. Sorry, Toxic Spikes only Poisons the foe when they're switched out. Here's what happens: you lay down Toxic Spikes and your foe sends out Bronzong, who not only is immune to being Poison'ed, but also Rapid Spins away your T-Spikes and proceeds to wall you instead of you walling them. Let's not forgot the fact that Blissey ALWAYS carries Aromatherapy, so T-Spikes is foiled in that manner too. Plus other popular Steel Mon like Skarm make them useless. Stealth Rock is much better, since it hits Levitating/Flying foes, unlike Spikes/T-Spikes, and also hits the Mon who are immune to T-Spikes like Steel Mon.

Perish Trappers? Meh, only Ghosts would really be able to do that, because most Bliss carry Seismic Toss. So technically, you could stall for the two turns, then switch on the last one and KO Bliss. But there's always a chance that you might Mean Look the wrong thing: I know if I had a Bliss on the field and someone sent out a Ghost, I'd be switching in something else right away. Anytime someone sends a Ghost in against Bliss, it's most likely to Perish Trap it, so you can almost always be expecting a Mean Look from one.

A few things --

Salamence is a horrible switch-in to Garchomp and is therefore not a counter.

Garchomp does not always set up.

Also, Bronzong can't Rapid Spin.

Choice items do not bind you to one move for the entire match, so even if you do manage to trick one on with Alakazam (who isn't coming in on Garchomp, ever), Garchomp can switch out.

Also, Toxic Spikes really do screw Blissey over, but TBH you really sort of need to be packing a Heracross counter if you're using them -- he'll come in and ruin your team otherwise. I agree that Stealth Rocks are almost always better, but saying Toxic Spikes are useless isn't accurate either. :x

Ghosts switching in to Blissey are rarely Perish Trappers. Mismagius is coming in to CM up. Gengar, if he switches in, is usually going to Explode, use Focus Blast, or go for Hypnosis. If Spiritomb is coming in he's going to either use Hypnosis or Nasty Plot up, and Dusknoir is there to Pain Split to recover HP.

Cybernetic Ghost
03-16-2008, 09:41 AM
If your good at predicting the switch, something like Punching Gengar, or any mixsweeper thats normally a special one will work fine. The obvious main problem with Bliss is its not going to switch into a counter, and if you switch into one, they're going to switch right back out. So yeah. Specsweeper with a move to handle Bliss is obviously going to be your best bet. But yeah. Even then unless the Bliss is running Ice Beam over SToss, it probably won't switch in on 'gar.

Black Hawk
03-16-2008, 01:31 PM
Once you know the opponents team, and possibly all the standard moves and crap, then you can probably predict anything the opponents going to do. Unless they're running a gimmick set, which hardly ever appear. Besides, running a gimmick set fails, I'd rather have a working set rather then something that would have a surprise factor for about 1-2 turns for a smart player. Shoddy's filled with great players. So you have to know your stuff.

You have no idea how untrue this is. I carry at least 2 gimmick sets on every team I play, and they always work. I carry them specifically to counter threats, such as blissey, garchomp, etc.

But if you do know all that stuff, you probably already won.

Tasteless
03-16-2008, 05:47 PM
CBTar with Pursuit.

Even though she'll survive it when she switches out of you (at least I think so?) it'll hurt like hell and sometimes they won't even switch because they know it's coming.

Itachi_2007
03-16-2008, 10:09 PM
You have no idea how untrue this is. I carry at least 2 gimmick sets on every team I play, and they always work. I carry them specifically to counter threats, such as blissey, garchomp, etc.

But if you do know all that stuff, you probably already won.

I'm not saying they're complete fail. And they do have to take stuff into consideration when used. I understand your opinion, though.

Dog of Hellsing
03-16-2008, 10:46 PM
A few things --

Salamence is a horrible switch-in to Garchomp and is therefore not a counter.

Garchomp does not always set up.

Also, Bronzong can't Rapid Spin.

Choice items do not bind you to one move for the entire match, so even if you do manage to trick one on with Alakazam (who isn't coming in on Garchomp, ever), Garchomp can switch out.

Also, Toxic Spikes really do screw Blissey over, but TBH you really sort of need to be packing a Heracross counter if you're using them -- he'll come in and ruin your team otherwise. I agree that Stealth Rocks are almost always better, but saying Toxic Spikes are useless isn't accurate either. :x

Ghosts switching in to Blissey are rarely Perish Trappers. Mismagius is coming in to CM up. Gengar, if he switches in, is usually going to Explode, use Focus Blast, or go for Hypnosis. If Spiritomb is coming in he's going to either use Hypnosis or Nasty Plot up, and Dusknoir is there to Pain Split to recover HP.

A) I wasn't saying Mence would be switched in to counter Chomp >>. I was saying that CBMence are popular and Garchomp would die to Dragon Claw from one. I was speaking as if Chomp switched in to Mence

B) Garchomp will almost always try to squeeze in a Swords Dance or two if they think you have no Ice moves or something.

C) Really? I thought they could >>...Meh, Starmie is a good choice for switching in on T-Spikes, since they get Rapid Spin as well as Natural Cure.

D) Choice items DO bind you to one move for the whole match unless you switch out. That's the point of TrickZam and other such Mon. Since so many Pokemon set up before actually attacking, when you Trick a Choice Item onto them, they'll HAVE to switch or eventually lose their Mon. That gives you a free turn to do whatever while they switch. Maybe it's to get in a Calm Mind or two and sweep. Maybe it's to set up a Sub. Whatever. And we all know that in competitive play, that one free turn can make or break a match.

E) I wasn't trying to imply that T-Spikes is useless. I was saying that against Bliss it's really not all that effective because of Aromatherapy. You lay down some T-Spikes and Roar/Whirlwind something else out, but then the Mon that laid them gets smacked stupid by one thing or another and gets KO'ed. Then you bring in something with Rapid Spin like Starmie (in fact, you might switch in Starmie and Rapid Spin first, then proceed to smack the T-Spike-laying Mon stupid the next turn XD). Finally, Bliss cleans up with Aromatherapy. GG. Even if you do run something like Heracross, it can die to something like Brave Bird from Staraptor before it gets a chance to do anything. Though I honestly don't know what level of play Staraptor gets, so we could also say something like Flare Blitz from Infernape or something.

Not only is T-Spikes kinda useless against Bliss, it's completely ineffective against Flying and Steel Mon, as well as Mon with Immunity and the Levitate Ability. If I want to Poison my foe, I'll use Toxic, since it'll hit those Flying/Levitating Mon.

IMO, Stealth Rock is better than T-Spikes and Spikes both. It hits more and therefore is more effective.

F) Exactly. Most Ghosts aren't coming in to Perish Trap anything, least of all Bliss. But Ghosts are really the only thing that can pull it off effectively against the common Bliss, since they have immunity to Seismic Toss and therefore can efficiently stall while the turns count down. Throw up a Sub and they can't Paralyze/Poison you. They're basically helpless. That's why I said Ghost, and not something like Lapras, which don't even work well as Perish Trappers because their trapping move (Whirlpool) might end after two turns. Then again, I don't think Lappy is used as a Perish Trapper to begin with, at least not standard ones.

Honestly, Bliss is easy to counter if you stop and think when you go up against one. Make sure at least one Attack-strong Mon on your team has a solid Fighting move like Brick break if you don't have something like Hera or Infernape in your party. Make sure you have a fast Mon with Sub (preferably, make that the one with the Fighting Move) so you can defend against Para/Poison. If you don't like that, have a Mon with Natural Cure and just keep switching it out when it gets Status'ed, eventually you'll run Bliss out of PP for T-Wave/Toxic or maybe you'll force it to switch to something else and get a break.

Pulse
03-18-2008, 03:31 AM
Sleep Talk Heracross
Sleep Talk Machamp
Sleep Talk Hariyama
Snorlax
Dusknoir
Electivire (barring Sing)

I'm sorry for being so blunt but Blissey should be easy to counter for any team. The ones listed above are just a few options. When countering Blissey, here are the qualifications:
• Pretty high Attack power.
• Ability to switch in on status conditions.
• (Optional) High powered fighting move.

Snorlax does not need Brick Break to take down Blissey, nor does Dusknoir need Focus Punch. Or you can just use good prediction to get your Pokémon with a fighting move in to OHKO.