groudon or kyogre

[pokemonpower]

whos better groudon or kyogre?

[soulja boy jr]

whos better groudon or kyogre?

groudon

[faceplant527]

kyogre!!!! he got thunder which helps me beat the elite 4 every time!!!

[OmgItsLoL]

I say kyogre is better

[Elite Dialga]

KYOGRE and that's not just what I think, it's an undeniable fact

[scalec]

People! All Pokemon have their strengths and weaknesses. You could make Groudon just as good or better then Kyogre or visversa. TMs also help with that. It's pointless to say whose better.

[poke123]

thats true
personally i think groudon is better
if he comes in a battle against kyogre, his drought ability activates and it allows him to use solarbeam in one turn and it hurts kyogre pretty badly

[Da Kid J3]

Kyoger for sure.

1.He can learn thunder

2.he can pwn groudon

[poke123]

well in a battle it depends who comes out first

[-Holland-]

Kyogre's movepool really caters to his massive Special Attack, and brings powerful STAB with Water Spout that just gets stronger in the rain anyway. Of course, Groudon, even if the sun doesn't affect it, decimates everything that doesn't fly with Earthquake. His Special Attack isn't so amazing, which is why I was rather skeptical on his prevalence of Fire attacks, but he's a behemoth, nevertheless.

Personally, I prefer Groudon because he looks super-awesome in the start-up screen of Ruby, and he's red, my favorite color. Plus, if he comes in on Kyogre rather than the reverse, then he's going to win, most likely. Of course, if Kyogre comes in on Groudon, he could be royally screwed, depending on Speed, but Earthquake will remain unaffected. But, as aforementioned in the topic, every Pokemon has strengths and weaknesses, and making "one-on-one" comparisons really beguiles the purpose the aim of battling with a team of 6.

[Tyler Birch]

I cant choose I like both. I think they are both good in their own ways

[PalkiaAndBlisseyrock]

Kyogre... Faster and has the type advantage, with a high special attack. Groudon, if he could pull off the first attack, would not have drought in session because kyogre is slower and cancelled it with drizzle. Any other attack from Groudon probably couldn't defeat Kyogre. Kyogre wins :biggrin:

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre, and here are the reasons why:

1) Kyogre's moves are backed by STAB, Rain Dance and its massive special attack (which should be its primary strength, not its attack)

2) Kyogre can learn Thunder, which not only hits for sure but is also a Special Attack based move, so that makes it even better

Furthermore, Groudon has a variety of moves, however moves such as Solar beam and Fire Blast are special type moves....and Special aatacks is not what Groudon is good at...

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

Kyogre, and here are the reasons why:

1) Kyogre's moves are backed by STAB, Rain Dance and its massive special attack (which should be its primary strength, not its attack)

2) Kyogre can learn Thunder, which not only hits for sure but is also a Special Attack based move, so that makes it even better

Furthermore, Groudon has a variety of moves, however moves such as Solar beam and Fire Blast are special type moves....and Special aatacks is not what Groudon is good at...

Kyogre might have buff Stats but Groudon is still my favorate.

Thunder can't really affect Groudon, and he has a good physical Atk stat with his ability to re learn Bulk Up, boosting his Atk and Def, which caters for his low Sp.Def and Sp.Atk.

Other than that, Groudons Earthquake can still pwn over Kyogre, no matter how big Kyogres stats are, as long as you know which pokemon to battle groudon with, to help stat train him.

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre might have buff Stats but Groudon is still my favorate.

Thunder can't really affect Groudon, and he has a good physical Atk stat with his ability to re learn Bulk Up, boosting his Atk and Def, which caters for his low Sp.Def and Sp.Atk.

Other than that, Groudons Earthquake can still pwn over Kyogre, no matter how big Kyogres stats are, as long as you know which pokemon to battle groudon with, to help stat train him.

Ok, Dude let me tell you that you/No one can argue over the fact that Kyogre has a higher chance of defeating Groudon whatsoever... Bulking up???...mehh... Kyogre can 1-Hit KO Groudon at its first strike EVEN IF GROUDON"S DROUGHT IS IN EFFECT INSTEAD OF KYOGRE"S DRIZZLE!! gorudon Lacks Sp.Def and Kyogre's Sp.Attk is way too high... then Combining this Sp.Attk with a single dose of Hydro Pump/Surf.. Groudon Pulls up Daisies before he can start Bulking Up (Why would Kyogre Use Thunder..It has Water moves at its disposal..lmao) :crackup:

[BubbleFis]

Ok, Dude let me tell you that you/No one can argue over the fact that Kyogre has a higher chance of defeating Groudon whatsoever... Bulking up???...mehh... Kyogre can 1-Hit KO Groudon at its first strike EVEN IF GROUDON"S DROUGHT IS IN EFFECT INSTEAD OF KYOGRE"S DRIZZLE!! gorudon Lacks Sp.Def and Kyogre's Sp.Attk is way too high... then Combining this Sp.Attk with a single dose of Hydro Pump/Surf.. Groudon Pulls up Daisies before he can start Bulking Up (Why would Kyogre Use Thunder..It has Water moves at its disposal..lmao) :crackup:

shut up you're a dunce leave it at the
first off it is a preference of which pokemon is better it is an opinion just because kyogre has High sp atk and is usually slower doesn't prove which is a better pokemon, groudongs EQ's do massive damage no matter what, and the 3rd gen games are screwed in phys and sp.atk's

[Elite Dialga]

shut up you're a dunce leave it at the
first off it is a preference of which pokemon is better it is an opinion just because kyogre has High sp atk and is usually slower doesn't prove which is a better pokemon, groudongs EQ's do massive damage no matter what, and the 3rd gen games are screwed in phys and sp.atk's

OH..So you like dissing people??,well I'd suggest that first you learn how to spell & read, you NOOB, watch carefully, I quoted this to a person who was comparing Groudon and Kyogre, I did not answer the question asked by the person who made this thread, YOU NOOB How the hell do you know about this game's PHYS?? you designed it or something?? and who told you that "Kyogre is Usually Slower"?? I never said that you idiot, its GROUDON not groudong, go diss someone having an IQ similar to your own.. dope. ..LMAO :crackup:

[scalec]

This thread is so gonna get locked.

[Team_Cerberus]

OH..So you like dissing people??,well I'd suggest that first you learn how to spell & read, you NOOB, watch carefully, I quoted this to a person who was comparing Groudon and Kyogre, I did not answer the question asked by the person who made this thread, YOU NOOB How the hell do you know about this game's PHYS?? you designed it or something?? and who told you that Kyogre is Slower?? I never said that you idiot, its GROUDON not groudong dope..Diamond/Pearl belongs to the 4th Gen...SO THINK BEFORE YOU POST...NOOB ..LMAO :crackup:
Now THAT is funny...

Feh, Kyogre is wayyy stronger than that feeble Groudon. Water vs. Ground? For my sake, I think Water wins. Kyogre is also faster and has a much larger range of attacks it can use. And Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquazza (might be spelled wrong) are indeed 3rd Generation legendary pokemon.

[Elite Dialga]

Now THAT is funny...

Feh, Kyogre is wayyy stronger than that feeble Groudon. Water vs. Ground? For my sake, I think Water wins. Kyogre is also faster and has a much larger range of attacks it can use. And Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquazza (might be spelled wrong) are indeed 3rd Generation legendary pokemon.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying Kyogre is stronger than Groudon if compared.

[Kei Ochima]

i really like kyogre better.

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying Kyogre is stronger than Groudon if compared.

Hahaha man nice burn with that other NOOB! Oh just so ya know, it all depends on the nature and stats of both pokemon that would determine the victor.

I personally think Groudon would win, although his weakness is Water.

Why you ask?

Well think about it. Do you think Groudon is really that stupid as to have a world shattering battle with Kyogre, if it knows it's gonna get hammered into the ground y Kyogre?

Groudon has attributes that help it where it lacks in other aspects, like all pokemon.

BUT, to concluse my statement....

I say Each to their own.

[Elite Dialga]

Hahaha man nice burn with that other NOOB! Oh just so ya know, it all depends on the nature and stats of both pokemon that would determine the victor.

I personally think Groudon would win, although his weakness is Water.

Why you ask?

Well think about it. Do you think Groudon is really that stupid as to have a world shattering battle with Kyogre, if it knows it's gonna get hammered into the ground y Kyogre?

Groudon has attributes that help it where it lacks in other aspects, like all pokemon.

BUT, to concluse my statement....

I say Each to their own.


Heh heh Yeah, NOOBs like this one just don’t know when to quit, this one especially compelled me to take action, so I had to put the hack down on him ten-twenty…lol.. Impertinent fools, they just talk crap and think as if they have really outdone themselves, anyway, I have no time for such noobs, lets get to business, Ok, yes dude I totally agree with on the fact that both, Kyogre as well as Groudon have the tendency to defeat each other, but there’s more, you see the legend might say that both Kyogre & Groudon had a cataclysmic battle and were equally powerful, but when we talk of “IN-GAME Mechanics” , they simply deny this fact; Both might be equally strong, but the probability of Kyogre defeating Groudon in an “IN GAME” battle is still greater, I skipped something I had in mind before, but now I guess I’ll have to use it to prove this fact:
Now, here’s the Equation that is used to calculate damage done by any pokemon using any specific move with a fixed base damage:
Given, LET:

Y = Magnitude of Damage Inflicted

L = Level of the pokemon who is attacking

B.A.S = Base Attack Strength (e.g. Ember’s B.A.S = 40)

D = Defense of the pokemon being attacked (Special/Physical, both respectively)
A.S = Attack STAT (Special/Physical both)

STAB = Same Type Attack Bonus (Increase Base attack power by 50%, If pokemon has type advantage)

E = Effectiveness Constant

Y = {[(2 × (L ÷ 5) + 2) × A.S × (B.A.S ÷ D )) ÷ 50] + 2} × STAB × E

Effectiveness = 1 (If move is neither Super effective nor effective below standard)

Effectiveness = 0.5 (If move does below normal damage, damage decreased by 50%, (NOTE: It might even do only 25% normal damage so in that case it’ll be = 0.25, in this case it’s N/A)

Effectiveness = 2 (If it does two times normal damage, this could be 4 but in this case it’s N/A)

Now in order to determine the probability of winning a battle for Kyogre & Groudon, we assume that their abilities are absent and they have similar STATS (According to their Respective Base STATS)(i.e if Kyogre’s SP.ATTCK = 350, then Groudon’s ATTCK = 350 & Both are at Level 100.

Kyogre’s STATS:
HP: 350
Attack: 230
Defense: 220
Sp.Attack: 350
Sp.Defense: 300
Speed: 250

Groudon’s STATS:
HP: 350
Attack: 350
Defense: 300
Sp.Attack: 230
Sp.Defense: 220
Speed: 250

Now, We must also assume that Neither Kyogre nor Groudon Attacks first; they have no advantages/disadvantages due to nature etc (We must take into account an ideal condition, ignoring any external matters)
CASE 1: Kyogre Uses SURF,

Y = {[(2 × (100 ÷ 5) + 2) × 350 × (95 ÷ 220 )) ÷ 50] + 2} × 1.5 × 2
≈ 387 (Groudon loses this amount of HP)

CASE 2: Groudon Uses Earthquake (which all the people speak about..),

Y = {[(2 × (100 ÷ 5) + 2) × 350 × (100 ÷ 220)) ÷ 50] + 2} × 1.5 × 1
≈ 204 (Kyogre loses this amount of HP)

SO from the above equations it can clearly be seen that Kyogre has done a significant amount of damage which is much greater than the damage done by Groudon (keep in mind the fact that EARTHQUAKE is Groudon’s BEST move) and that the probability of Kyogre defeating Groudon is greater whatsoever, I think I’ve done enough to explain what I’m saying and there’s no doubt about it,the fact that Kyogre is strongerif compared to groudon & Definitely other pokemon as well,that's what I've learn't and I have proven this through mathematical equations and they can't lie, if someone differs from this, then may the force be with him, GOOD LUCK DUDE!! :wink:

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

Heh heh Yeah, NOOBs like this one just don’t know when to quit, this one especially compelled me to take action, so I had to put the hack down on him ten-twenty…lol.. Impertinent fools, they just talk crap and think as if they have really outdone themselves, anyway, I have no time for such noobs, lets get to business, Ok, yes dude I totally agree with on the fact that both, Kyogre as well as Groudon have the tendency to defeat each other, but there’s more, you see the legend might say that both Kyogre & Groudon had a cataclysmic battle and were equally powerful, but when we talk of “IN-GAME Mechanics” , they simply deny this fact; Both might be equally strong, but the probability of Kyogre defeating Groudon in an “IN GAME” battle is still greater, I skipped something I had in mind before, but now I guess I’ll have to use it to prove this fact:
Now, here’s the Equation that is used to calculate damage done by any pokemon using any specific move with a fixed base damage:
Given, LET:

Y = Magnitude of Damage Inflicted

L = Level of the pokemon who is attacking

B.A.S = Base Attack Strength (e.g. Ember’s B.A.S = 40)

D = Defense of the pokemon being attacked (Special/Physical, both respectively)
A.S = Attack STAT (Special/Physical both)

STAB = Same Type Attack Bonus (Increase Base attack power by 50%, If pokemon has type advantage)

E = Effectiveness Constant

Y = {[(2 × (L ÷ 5) + 2) × A.S × (B.A.S ÷ D )) ÷ 50] + 2} × STAB × E

Effectiveness = 1 (If move is neither Super effective nor effective below standard)

Effectiveness = 0.5 (If move does below normal damage, damage decreased by 50%, (NOTE: It might even do only 25% normal damage so in that case it’ll be = 0.25, in this case it’s N/A)

Effectiveness = 2 (If it does two times normal damage, this could be 4 but in this case it’s N/A)

Now in order to determine the probability of winning a battle for Kyogre & Groudon, we assume that their abilities are absent and they have similar STATS (According to their Respective Base STATS)(i.e if Kyogre’s SP.ATTCK = 350, then Groudon’s ATTCK = 350 & Both are at Level 100.

Kyogre’s STATS:
HP: 350
Attack: 230
Defense: 220
Sp.Attack: 350
Sp.Defense: 300
Speed: 250

Groudon’s STATS:
HP: 350
Attack: 350
Defense: 300
Sp.Attack: 230
Sp.Defense: 220
Speed: 250

Now, We must also assume that Neither Kyogre nor Groudon Attacks first; they have no advantages/disadvantages due to nature etc (We must take into account an ideal condition, ignoring any external matters)
CASE 1: Kyogre Uses SURF,

Y = {[(2 × (100 ÷ 5) + 2) × 350 × (95 ÷ 220 )) ÷ 50] + 2} × 1.5 × 2
≈ 387 (Groudon loses this amount of HP)

CASE 2: Groudon Uses Earthquake (which all the people speak about..),

Y = {[(2 × (100 ÷ 5) + 2) × 350 × (100 ÷ 220)) ÷ 50] + 2} × 1.5 × 1
≈ 204 (Kyogre loses this amount of HP)

SO from the above equations it can clearly be seen that Kyogre has done a significant amount of damage which is much greater than the damage done by Groudon (keep in mind the fact that EARTHQUAKE is Groudon’s BEST move) and that the probability of Kyogre defeating Groudon is greater whatsoever, I think I’ve done enough to explain what I’m saying and there’s no doubt about it,the fact that Kyogre is strongerif compared to groudon & Definitely other pokemon as well,that's what I've learn't and I have proven this through mathematical equations and they can't lie, if someone differs from this, then may the force be with him, GOOD LUCK DUDE!! :wink:

How'd you come up with those equatios, man? thats some serious work you've done!
Im impressed by your knowledge!

I agree that Kyogre has the upper hand, but wouldn't that only be a problem if Kyogre had perfect accuracy?

[-Holland-]

Ok, Dude let me tell you that you/No one can argue over the fact that Kyogre has a higher chance of defeating Groudon whatsoever... Bulking up???...mehh... Kyogre can 1-Hit KO Groudon at its first strike EVEN IF GROUDON"S DROUGHT IS IN EFFECT INSTEAD OF KYOGRE"S DRIZZLE!! gorudon Lacks Sp.Def and Kyogre's Sp.Attk is way too high... then Combining this Sp.Attk with a single dose of Hydro Pump/Surf.. Groudon Pulls up Daisies before he can start Bulking Up (Why would Kyogre Use Thunder..It has Water moves at its disposal..lmao) :crackup:

438 Attack taking into account STABed Earthquake - 150 Power - against the aforementioned Kyogre's 279 Defense AT BEST - in reality, it's typically about 216 or a little higher for some bulk - ...So, even without Bulk Up nor Drought in effect, Groudon can probably either kill a non Defensive Kyogre or seriously slam the hurt on a different kind.

Of course, it is obvious that if Kyogre so much is allowed to touch Groudon, it's probably going to die no matter what.

[Abram]

alltogether they are equel in stats so moves are what make them better.

[-Holland-]

OH..So you like dissing people??,well I'd suggest that first you learn how to spell & read, you NOOB, watch carefully, I quoted this to a person who was comparing Groudon and Kyogre, I did not answer the question asked by the person who made this thread, YOU NOOB How the hell do you know about this game's PHYS?? you designed it or something?? and who told you that "Kyogre is Usually Slower"?? I never said that you idiot, its GROUDON not groudong, go diss someone having an IQ similar to your own.. dope. ..LMAO :crackup:

This is a late response to this, but whatever.

Look dude, I don't care how right you may be in terms of the raw calculations and derivations of attack proportions, but the fact that this is how you respond to simple argumentative opposition makes you look as if you bray like a mule when you actually talk to people. Also, the fact that you used the word "noob" even more than once in your paragraph alone makes me feel as if I have just read the one single most inert pabulum of garbage to have passed through my eyes. Moreover, the fact that you simply took all that space to insult the guy rather than prove him wrong like a normal person diminishes whatever respect anyone should have for you here. Remain inobtrusive unless your planning on incorporating your facts to support what you have to say.

[Elite Dialga]

This is a late response to this, but whatever.

Look dude, I don't care how right you may be in terms of the raw calculations and derivations of attack proportions, but the fact that this is how you respond to simple argumentative opposition makes you look as if you bray like a mule when you actually talk to people. Also, the fact that you used the word "noob" even more than once in your paragraph alone makes me feel as if I have just read the one single most inert pabulum of garbage to have passed through my eyes. Moreover, the fact that you simply took all that space to insult the guy rather than prove him wrong like a normal person diminishes whatever respect anyone should have for you here. Remain inobtrusive unless your planning on incorporating your facts to support what you have to say.

First of all, who the hell are you to tell me what a post should look like?? So you read my post which made you feel as if you read the one single most inert pabulum of garbage to have passed through your eyes, SO??? I can't help that & I don't give a damn to what you feel about that , THAT GUY REPLIED TO MY POST IN A VERY RUDE manner, Yes, I intentionally used the word"noob" to insult him simply because the way he started his quote (Recall: shut up your a dunce) is not how you talk to someone, ergo,. I had to be offensive(If he simply did not use the word "dunce" I never would have said all that, besides whatever he said was mostly incorrect),"Bray like a mule"?? ..EH.. let me get this straight: you may have the patience to take bullcrap from others, you're most welcome to remain polite, I don't, especially not noobs, I always try to be as helpful & polite as I can but when some one insults me (by saying: Shut up you're a dunce for instance, that really fries me) and I do not expect any didactic lectures from you in future, so keep them to yourself, get it??

[Lugia-TheOceansGuardian]

Well, strength wise, I don't really know who would be better, but I personally like Groudon better.

[-Holland-]

First of all, who the hell are you to tell me what a post should look like??So you read my post which made you feel as if you read the one single most inert pabulum of garbage to have passed through your eyes, SO??? I can't help that & I don't give a damn to what you feel about that , THAT GUY REPLIED TO MY POST IN A VERY RUDE manner, Yes, I intentionally used the word"noob" to insult him simply because the way he started his quote (Recall: shut up your a dunce) is not how you talk to someone, ergo,. I had to be offensive(If he simply did not use the word "dunce" I never would have said all that, besides whatever he said was mostly incorrect),"Bray like a mule"?? ..EH.. let me get this straight: you may have the patience to take bullcrap from others, you're most welcome to remain polite, I don't, especially not noobs, I always try to be as helpful & polite as I can but when some one insults me (by saying: SHut up you're a dunce for instance, that really fries me) and I do not expect any didactic lectures from you in future, so keep them to yourself, get it??

Well, I could have remained standoffish and said "don't be mean", which is really all I was saying. Besides, much like him insulting you really grinds your gears, you initiating a blunt retaliation grinds mine, because all it really does is make you look like an argumentative jerk. Now, I'll be frank and say that - now that you've given some rationale -, there's a more benign air to you, but still, you really shouldn't go off and push back twice as hard as your aggressor pushed you. And, I really don't care if I come off as patronizing or lecturing; your primarily ghastly ethics don't look too well in much anyone's eyes, especially when it's all in spite of your parasitic acquisition of some paltry pride. Forgive my harshness if uncalled for, but that's honestly what it looked like. I understand being angered at an insult, but the nasty response is unnecessary, and to use improper grammar ("noob"?) when prelecting another on the subject is more or less a contradiction of whatever authority you tried to establish there.

Anyway, if you have anything else to say, just PM me or something, because this little altercation isn't helping this topic much.

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

First of all, who the hell are you to tell me what a post should look like??So you read my post which made you feel as if you read the one single most inert pabulum of garbage to have passed through your eyes, SO??? I can't help that & I don't give a damn to what you feel about that , THAT GUY REPLIED TO MY POST IN A VERY RUDE manner, Yes, I intentionally used the word"noob" to insult him simply because the way he started his quote (Recall: shut up your a dunce) is not how you talk to someone, ergo,. I had to be offensive(If he simply did not use the word "dunce" I never would have said all that, besides whatever he said was mostly incorrect),"Bray like a mule"?? ..EH.. let me get this straight: you may have the patience to take bullcrap from others, you're most welcome to remain polite, I don't, especially not noobs, I always try to be as helpful & polite as I can but when some one insults me (by saying: SHut up you're a dunce for instance, that really fries me) and I do not expect any didactic lectures from you in future, so keep them to yourself, get it??



Well, I could have remained standoffish and said "don't be mean", which is really all I was saying. Besides, much like him insulting you really grinds your gears, you initiating a blunt retaliation grinds mine, because all it really does is make you look like an argumentative jerk. Now, I'll be frank and say that - now that you've given some rationale -, there's a more benign air to you, but still, you really shouldn't go off and push back twice as hard as your aggressor pushed you. And, I really don't care if I come off as patronizing or lecturing; your primarily ghastly ethics don't look too well in much anyone's eyes, especially when it's all in spite of your parasitic acquisition of some paltry pride. Forgive my harshness if uncalled for, but that's honestly what it looked like. I understand being angered at an insult, but the nasty response is unnecessary, and to use improper grammar ("noob"?) when prelecting another on the subject is more or less a contradiction of whatever authority you tried to establish there.

Anyway, if you have anything else to say, just PM me or something, because this little altercation isn't helping this topic much.

Alright how about the both of you just chill....you both don't want to get banned for starting and argument and going off topic now, do you?

[Elite Dialga]

Well, I could have remained standoffish and said "don't be mean", which is really all I was saying. Besides, much like him insulting you really grinds your gears, you initiating a blunt retaliation grinds mine, because all it really does is make you look like an argumentative jerk. Now, I'll be frank and say that - now that you've given some rationale -, there's a more benign air to you, but still, you really shouldn't go off and push back twice as hard as your aggressor pushed you. And, I really don't care if I come off as patronizing or lecturing; your primarily ghastly ethics don't look too well in much anyone's eyes, especially when it's all in spite of your parasitic acquisition of some paltry pride. Forgive my harshness if uncalled for, but that's honestly what it looked like. I understand being angered at an insult, but the nasty response is unnecessary, and to use improper grammar ("noob"?) when prelecting another on the subject is more or less a contradiction of whatever authority you tried to establish there.

Anyway, if you have anything else to say, just PM me or something, because this little altercation isn't helping this topic much.

Please mind your language, I have no time to PM you over this futile discussion, well if you had been standoffish, I would have agreed to you 100%, there's something I'd like to tell you, I did not like the way you tried to explain me what I did wrong, I don't know I simply didn't like that, if you simply said : "you were being too mean" , I definitely would have agreed with you but the way you conveyed this seemed as if you're trying to boss me around. Talking of grammar, I'd suggest that you try to use words which are easily understood by others because these barbaric words (prelecting, rationale, benign air) that you use often really don't make your post look good, neither do all these fancy expressions you come up with which are hardly used in daily life by most people; most people here would be annoyed if they read them, trust me. I suggest that now we stop this and become friends, I'm ready to forget all that happened, so lets burry the hatchet, shall we Diarago? :happy:

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

Hehehe, bout time, eh?

i'd say this topic sparked some major controversy....

[-Holland-]

Please mind your language, I have no time to PM you over this futile discussion, well if you had been standoffish, I would have agreed to you 100%, there's something I'd like to tell you, I did not like the way you tried to explain me what I did wrong, I don't know I simply didn't like that, if you simply said : "you were being too mean" , I definitely would have agreed with you but the way you conveyed this seemed as if you're trying to boss me around. Talking of grammar, I'd suggest that you try to use words which are easily understood by others because these barbaric words (prelecting, rationale, benign air) that you use often really don't make your post look good, neither do all these fancy expressions you come up with which are hardly used in daily life by most people; most people here would be annoyed if they read them, trust me. I suggest that now we stop this and become friends, I'm ready to forget all that happened, so lets burry the hatchet, shall we Diarago? :happy:

Fair enough. There's little reason to squabble over this, and obviously, we both know it. Agreed, my friend.

[Elite Dialga]

Fair enough. There's little reason to squabble over this, and obviously, we both know it. Agreed, my friend.

I'm glad that now we're friends mate, you saw my harsh side in my previous posts, now I'll show you how good I can be as a friend! Good Luck my friend & if you need any help, especially regarding math, I'm always there for you :wink:

[pkmn trainer Vincent]

I'm glad that now we're friends mate, you saw my harsh side in my previous posts, now I'll show you how good I can be as a friend! Good Luck my friend & if you need any help, especially regarding math, I'm always there for you :wink:

Lol ok now kiss and make up :P

[-Holland-]

Lol ok now kiss and make up :P

Um, yeah, it's high time we got back on topic...

[Elite Dialga]

Lol ok now kiss and make up :P

Good One muhahahahah..lol :biggrin:

[xXPrimalDialgaXx]

Well, Groudon learns SolarBeam that can cause problems to Kyogre, but Kyogre in another hand learns Hydro Pump and Blizzard. But I always liked Groudon.

[Elite Dialga]

Well, Groudon learns SolarBeam that can cause problems to Kyogre, but Kyogre in another hand learns Hydro Pump and Blizzard. But I always liked Groudon.

Groudon's main strength is its Attack not Special Attack plus its Solar beam is not influenced by STAB, besides this Kyogre's main strength is its Special attack, Hydro pump/surf are special attacks and are backed up by STAB so that gives Kyogre a pretty decent advantage against Groudon (Groudon's chances of wining are almost non-existent against Kyogre, trust me...).

[-Holland-]

Groudon's main strength is its Attack not Special Attack plus its Solar beam is not influenced by STAB, besides this Kyogre's main strength is its Special attack, Hydro pump/surf are special attacks and are backed up by STAB so that gives Kyogre a pretty decent advantage against Groudon (Groudon's chances of wining are almost non-existent against Kyogre, trust me...).

Kyogre really gets lucky in this instance because of its typing and also the Pokemon company's intent to tell a story. One had to be Ground and the other Water. I mean, yeah, Kyogre wins here, but...

Hm...Holy crap. If you think about it, Groudon is just as advantageous or just as screwed as Kyogre against almost ever other Uber legendary. I mean, maybe Groudon gets the upper hand on Jirachi or Celebi or something, but Kyogre can take something like Lugia or Ho-Oh with no trouble at all; even Mewtwo, actually.

Still, though, Groudon works. I guess Kyogre outdoes him, but he has a gihugic Attack power that still hammers just about anything pretty badly, even if it doesn't KO.

I guess on a competitive scale, Kyogre wins almost by default, but Groudon is still a great Pokemon, and I will actually have a predominant preference to him in terms of anything otherwise, particularly because Ruby was my very next game following up on Gold (I always go for the color better associated with Red; Red, Gold, Ruby, Pearl...)...and so, I just think Groudon is cooler.

But among all, RaYqUaZa Iz TeH pWnZoRdZ.:cool:

(I'm just kidding about that last part...Well, the way it's said, anyway. Black Rayquaza is super-awesome.)

[Silver Slasher]

Groudon is pretty cool, because his ability+SolarBeam is good. Groudon has pretty high attack, which I like.

I can't really say anything about Kyogre, cause I haven't caught him yet (Stupid Double-Edge).

So I'm gonna have to say Groudon. :P

[scalec]

If they battle each other, it's all just a matter of who comes out first and who has the best strategy.
But either one of them battled a different Pokemon, Groudon would totally be the best. It has the best moveset.
It's all debatable.

[Starkipraggy]

If they battle each other, it's all just a matter of who comes out first and who has the best strategy.
But either one of them battled a different Pokemon, Groudon would totally be the best. It has the best moveset.
It's all debatable.
Kyogre does have more potential to sweep IMO. 100 Base Speed, which is plenty high enough, and OMG look at that Water Spout.

150 x 1.5 (STAB) = 225
225 x 1.5 (Rain Bonus) = 375.5

Fire that off a massive Special Attack stat and we have a winner. Even Explosion users usually only get 250 Base Power, the exception being Lickylicky.

Even with Surf:

95 x 1.5 (STAB) = 142.5
95 x 1.5 (Rain Bonus) = 213.75

Again, fire that off a massive Special Attack stat and we have a winner.

But Kyogre vs Groundon is difficult. It's a matter of which Pokemon comes out first. Whoever gets their preferable weather condition will win. But in normal battles, Groudon can't really 1-up too many things, since Ice Beams and Grass Knots are gonna hit it from all directions and kill it from its weaker Special Defense stat before it can so much as retaliate. Base 100 Speed really loves Kyogre.

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre does have more potential to sweep IMO. 100 Base Speed, which is plenty high enough, and OMG look at that Water Spout.

150 x 1.5 (STAB) = 225
225 x 1.5 (Rain Bonus) = 375.5

Fire that off a massive Special Attack stat and we have a winner. Even Explosion users usually only get 250 Base Power, the exception being Lickylicky.

Even with Surf:

95 x 1.5 (STAB) = 142.5
95 x 1.5 (Rain Bonus) = 213.75

Again, fire that off a massive Special Attack stat and we have a winner.

But Kyogre vs Groundon is difficult. It's a matter of which Pokemon comes out first. Whoever gets their preferable weather condition will win. But in normal battles, Groudon can't really 1-up too many things, since Ice Beams and Grass Knots are gonna hit it from all directions and kill it from its weaker Special Defense stat before it can so much as retaliate. Base 100 Speed really loves Kyogre.

Kyogre & Groudon's Base speed stat is 90 not 100.

[samden55]

i think groudon because hes ground and ground is good against most types

[PsygirlGTA54]

Kyogre, not only water pokemon are awesome, but typewise, it can beat Groudon easily.

[raganbaby_6]

Groudon (I have one) because it can use Earthquake, which can be used to beat those pesky Electric Types.

[pokemaster493]

kyogre is cooler but it alll depends on your prefrance groundon can cover its weaknesses better(solerbeam)

[-Holland-]

Kyogre & Groudon's Base speed stat is 90 not 100.

Yea, they both have 306 maximums, which the base stat for is 90. 100 is for 328...like Flygon.

[Shadow Kyogre GT2]

Kyogre is obviosly better.
I mean, with moves like Thunder, Sheer cold, Earthquake and Surf he cant loose.:banana::banana::banana:

[Starkipraggy]

Yea, they both have 306 maximums, which the base stat for is 90. 100 is for 328...like Flygon.

Yeah, I just checked. It's 90, not 100. Sorry about the blooper.

Kyogre is obviosly better.
I mean, with moves like Thunder, Sheer cold, Earthquake and Surf he cant loose.:banana::banana::banana:

Thunder, yes. Surf, yes. Sheer Cold and Earthquake on Kyogre is fail. Try Water Spout and Ice Beam instead.

[stevenshin]

I think Kyogre is better .in the game,water type is better than ground and Kyogre also can learn Thunder so I said Kyogre is better.

[raganbaby_6]

Also 'cause Groudon can learn Fissure and Eruption, both of which work in a Contest as a combination to Earthquake. But that's just me.

[NeoZero]

Kygre of course
it has a better moovepool and out speed Groudon but you can't say who can win in a battle
it depends on stats

honestly i prefere Kyogre who is my best Uber

[MeesDJ]

Well Kyogre obviously beats Groudon. As Groudon is attack based his drought isn't very handy (Still for weakening water attacks, hmm'kay.. allthough he has no spec. att whatsoever it's useless) Kyogre can easily sweep with water spout, hydro pump...

Thunder is handy for fighting off some pesy fly-types and water types.. Ice beam can eleminate fly/grass/bug. And with the nice spec. defense stats off Kyogre he can easily take some hits of a thunder type and just Ice beam/hydro pump/water spout them.

[Elite Dialga]

Kygre of course
it has a better moovepool and out speed Groudon but you can't say who can win in a battle
it depends on stats

honestly i prefere Kyogre who is my best Uber

Meh....Its high time you should realize that both Kyogre & Groudon have equal base speed stats so you can't say that Kyogre will outspeed Groudon hence or otherwise.

[-Holland-]

Kygre of course
it has a better moovepool and out speed Groudon but you can't say who can win in a battle
it depends on stats

honestly i prefere Kyogre who is my best Uber

Dude, what the hell!? They both have the exact same Speed.

Besides, it's really not the best idea to put these two legendaries in particular against one another to determine strength. One is a physical tank/sweeper while the other special. Besides, a major factor in this is actually who goes second. By chance, if Groudon loses a tie (should they be tied), Kyogre does Drizzle, but then Groudon does Drought...So, Kyogre's offense is effectively halved, which, with a slim, slim chance, does not kill Groudon, giving way for him to use a 150 Base Power Earthquake backed by 438 Attack power...

Off the bat, Kyogre will indubitably win, but outside a battle with one another, they're both incredible Uber Pokemon that can take hits and dish out much worse. Groudon's only problem is that most legendaries are almost stereotypically attributed to Special attacking, which is what gives Kyogre the upper hand, but he's still very strong and very effective, with a plethora of moves that can dent a team much quicker than Kyogre can.

[dark_uxie]

Kyogre because he can destroy groudon, he can beat electric types with earthquake, he can beat dragon types with ice type moves and frankly,he looks cooler.

[pikachugirl2]

so kyogre. So TOTALLY Kyogre.

[SBoMb]

It depends. It could go either way depending on their moves, stats,and whatever else. But, in my opinion, I like Kyogre.

[Winter_Cherry]

Kyogre, I'm pretty sure there's enough fire pokemon in those games, but you really can't seem to find any really good water pokemon. :biggrin:

[Miss_Baltimore_Crabs]

Kyogre. The dude's a mad powerhouse!!!!! I remember the second time I had to start a new file on Sapphire I had captured it, and it kicked the living crud out of every Pokemon in it's way. The next year, my grandma bought me Pokemon Ruby for my birthday. I caught Groundon, and he got defeated the first time I used him. Full health and stats, and he got defeated by my friend's Charizard that I hooked up with to battle in FireRed! And his Charizard was like 10 levels weaker than the Groundon!!!!!!!
Definately, Kyogre is better. And Riika-Chan, I so totally agree with you :happy: there aren't many good water Pokemon in Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald!!!!

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre. The dude's a mad powerhouse!!!!! I remember the second time I had to start a new file on Sapphire I had captured it, and it kicked the living crud out of every Pokemon in it's way. The next year, my grandma bought me Pokemon Ruby for my birthday. I caught Groundon, and he got defeated the first time I used him. Full health and stats, and he got defeated by my friend's Charizard that I hooked up with to battle in FireRed! And his Charizard was like 10 levels weaker than the Groundon!!!!!!!
Definately, Kyogre is better. And Riika-Chan, I so totally agree with you :happy: there aren't many good water Pokemon in Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald!!!!

I'll have to disagree with you & Rika-Chan regarding the statement that R/S/E does not contain good water pokemon, I think perhaps one of the best water pokemon is there in R/S/E and that would be Milotic :wink:

[-Felix-]

Kyogre. He has better stats and he can pwn Groudon in one hit (Without Sheer Cold) if he has good IV's.

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre. He has better stats and he can pwn Groudon in one hit (Without Sheer Cold) if he has good IV's.

Omg.....Dude, both Kyogre & Groudon have equal base stats.

[Nietzsche]

I'll have to disagree with you & Rika-Chan regarding the statement that R/S/E does not contain good water pokemon, I think perhaps one of the best water pokemon is there in R/S/E and that would be Milotic :wink:

What about Walrein????
I remember the game in which I didnt have Kyogre at all(wanted a little challenge), Walrein did Kyogre's role very very well.

And IMO kyogre owns Groudon(and Rayquaza owns him too, it is Kyogre>dragon>groudon). Every Kyogre's ability fits his others very well.
Let's compare:

-Sheer Cold can kill everything, but Fissure can't kill flyers
-Groudon doesn't benefit of its ability like Kyogre does with Drizzle, because Kyogre is water type and has powerful special attack. Groudon's ability helps with flamethrower and Solarbeam but it is still very weak because his sp.attack sux and he is not fire type.

[Elite Dialga]

What about Walrein????
I remember the game in which I didnt have Kyogre at all(wanted a little challenge), Walrein did Kyogre's role very very well.

And IMO kyogre owns Groudon(and Rayquaza owns him too, it is Kyogre>dragon>groudon). Every Kyogre's ability fits his others very well.
Let's compare:

-Sheer Cold can kill everything, but Fissure can't kill flyers
-Groudon doesn't benefit of its ability like Kyogre does with Drizzle, because Kyogre is water type and has powerful special attack. Groudon's ability helps with flamethrower and Solarbeam but it is still very weak because his sp.attack sux and he is not fire type.

Generally you're correct, but the reasons you've quoted aren't very sound, but you need not ponder over it, yes Kyogre is better than Groudon.

[Nietzsche]

Here is another thng, Groudon is weak vs water/grass/ice, while Kyogre's weaknesses are only 2 , grass and ice.

Kyogre has high sp.def to reduce the damage from his weaknesses

and he has ice beam to kill them

on the other hand he doesnt have anything to help vs electric types, and electric types are usually faster so they will usually paralize kyogre and it will be hard for him.and thunder will not miss
althought if he manages to use 2 surf-es he will kill them

groudon can fight ice and grass types with his fire attacks, but he is not fire type(ok kyogre is not ice as well) but groudon has lower sp.atk and ice beam will outdamage his flamethrower(obviously because he has stronger sp.atk) and fire blast(keep in mind that it is not 100% accurate). he also has solarbeam that is better than flamethrower/fireblast because of his ability to call sunny day(dont remember the ability name) and water attacks are reduced

at total kyogre has 2 weaknesses while groudon has 3. so in weaknesses and the way they fight them kyogre is imo a little stronger

[Elite Dialga]

Here is another thng, Groudon is weak vs water/grass/ice, while Kyogre's weaknesses are only 2 , grass and ice.

Kyogre has high sp.def to reduce the damage from his weaknesses

and he has ice beam to kill them

on the other hand he doesnt have anything to help vs electric types, and electric types are usually faster so they will usually paralize kyogre and it will be hard for him.and thunder will not miss
althought if he manages to use 2 surf-es he will kill them

groudon can fight ice and grass types with his fire attacks, but he is not fire type(ok kyogre is not ice as well) but groudon has lower sp.atk and ice beam will outdamage his flamethrower(obviously because he has stronger sp.atk) and fire blast(keep in mind that it is not 100% accurate). he also has solarbeam that is better than flamethrower/fireblast because of his ability to call sunny day(dont remember the ability name) and water attacks are reduced

at total kyogre has 2 weaknesses while groudon has 3. so in weaknesses and the way they fight them kyogre is imo a little stronger

Ehh..Well dude its a fact that Kyogre is stronger but it can't be elucidated by the reasons you've quoted since they are based on assumptions, go to the previous pages of this thread, I have explained this fact using damage calculation equations, that's a somewhat solid proof for this fact. :wink:

[Nietzsche]

Groudon's Earthquake will deal 223 damage to water pokemon
Solarbeam will deal 235,84 damage to water pokemon
Not big difference

(200 def and sp. def of water pokemon and Groudon is level 100)

[Elite Dialga]

Groudon's Earthquake will deal 223 damage to water pokemon
Solarbeam will deal 235,84 damage to water pokemon
Not big difference

(200 def and sp. def of water pokemon and Groudon is level 100)

So what's the point of telling this?

[pokemonpower]

nobodys posting in this topic anymore

[LugiaAeroBlast]

This should be a poll, but hey, i like groudon!

[PokeGamer]

Kyorge PWNS Groudon

[Legend collector]

It depends on the movesets. With groudon he can use his drought ability and solarbeam and kick kyogres arse, but then Kyogre could use Hydro pump with drizzle and what do you know? Groudon is dead. Also what If you use lots of different stat enhancers, and EV train one of them? It all depends

[Elite Dialga]

It depends on the movesets. With groudon he can use his drought ability and solarbeam and kick kyogres arse, but then Kyogre could use Hydro pump with drizzle and what do you know? Groudon is dead. Also what If you use lots of different stat enhancers, and EV train one of them? It all depends

Eh...Kyogre owns Groudon and thats flat, this was discussed a long time ago and I don't want to explain it again, just keep in mind the fact that Kyogre has an edge over Groudon if they battle and the probability that Kyogre would win is ALWAYS greater, nuff' said... http://images.devshed.com/fdh/smilies/z1.gif

[Ardy29]

Kyogre is a lot better than groudon [he will turn groudon into dust]

[Elite Dialga]

Kyogre is a lot better than groudon [he will turn groudon into dust]

Well said, that's exactly how it is.

[Insane]

Actually, if you have said Kyogre, your wrong.
Since Groudon can take Kyogre SP attacks. and when Groudon attacks Kyogre is wiped out.

Groudon Max stats:
HP: 404
Attack: 438
Defence: 416
Speed: 306
SP.Attack: 328
SP.Defence: 306

Attacks:

Earthquake
Brick Breake
Stone Edge
Rock Polish / Dragon Claw

Also, Kyogre and Groudon can go ever way since they both have the same speed.

Nature:
Adamant

[Elite Dialga]

Actually, if you have said Kyogre, your wrong.
Since Groudon can take Kyogre SP attacks. and when Groudon attacks Kyogre is wiped out.

Groudon Max stats:
HP: 404
Attack: 438
Defence: 416
Speed: 306
SP.Attack: 328
SP.Defence: 306

Attacks:

Earthquake
Brick Breake
Stone Edge
Rock Polish / Dragon Claw

Also, Kyogre and Groudon can go ever way since they both have the same speed.

Nature:
Adamant

Lol...........

No, you are wrong...

Dude what the hell?? First of all, those Max stats that you copied and pasted probably from another website represent the limits to which they can go if Groudon has a max IV and has been EV trained for any particular stat and since there are 510 EVs that can be spread, you can have two stats at their peak at max and that happens very seldom because getting max IVs in two stats is not a piece of cake.

"Since Groudon can take Kyogre SP attacks. and when Groudon attacks Kyogre is wiped out."

Elucidate further, this generalised statement does not prove squat.....

[Yoda55]

I cant choose I like both. I think they are both good in their own ways

I agree!

[Celestial Plusle]

Kyogre is better. and look at it's movesets.

[Starkipraggy]

It really depends on whose weather is active at the time. Groudon will always 2HKO Kyogre no matter what with Earthquake (unless there's a crit), so Kyogre is the variable. In the sun, Kyogre's attacks will fail to do too much to Groudon, allowing it to remove Kyogre with 2 EQs. In the rain, Surf on its own will OHKO Groudon, so that's a gg.

In neutral weather and EV'd offensively with perfect IVs (252 in Speed, 252 in respective attack, 4 in HP), it really comes down to who wins the speed tie in the second turn, really.

[Elite Dialga]

It really depends on whose weather is active at the time. Groudon will always 2HKO Kyogre no matter what with Earthquake (unless there's a crit), so Kyogre is the variable. In the sun, Kyogre's attacks will fail to do too much to Groudon, allowing it to remove Kyogre with 2 EQs. In the rain, Surf on its own will OHKO Groudon, so that's a gg.

In neutral weather and EV'd offensively with perfect IVs (252 in Speed, 252 in respective attack, 4 in HP), it really comes down to who wins the speed tie in the second turn, really.

Actually, even if Groudon's weather is in effect, Kyogre still has a better chance of winning; this thread basically compares both, ergo, it would be fallacious to assume that one of the counterparts is EVed etc. So we compare them assuming both have neutral stats (with respect to their base stats) & after that, we come to know the fact that Kyogre does have a better chance to win.

[Starkipraggy]

Actually, even if Groudon's weather is in effect, Kyogre still has a better chance of winning; this thread basically compares both, ergo, it would be fallacious to assume that one of the counterparts is EVed etc. So we compare them assuming both have neutral stats (with respect to their base stats) & after that, we come to know the fact that Kyogre does have a better chance to win.
Well, yes. In any given battle in Ubers, Kyogre will probably win, simply because Groudon almost never runs max Speed as it has to focus on its Sp. Defense or HP to avoid being eliminated by all the other Special monster ubers.

However, in a 1v1 situation where it's just the two of them duking it out, both of them will probably run absolute max speed to ensure that they tie speed at worst. However, once again, Kyogre will probably triumph here. In order for Groudon to win, it has to win the Speed tie roll for two turns. For the first turn, if Groudon doesn't go first, Water Spout will remove it from the game instantly. For the second turn, if it doesn't win the Speed roll, it dies to any of Kyogre's attacks anyway.

Oh dear, I just shot myself in the foot. :x

[Elite Dialga]

Well, yes. In any given battle in Ubers, Kyogre will probably win, simply because Groudon almost never runs max Speed as it has to focus on its Sp. Defense or HP to avoid being eliminated by all the other Special monster ubers.

However, in a 1v1 situation where it's just the two of them duking it out, both of them will probably run absolute max speed to ensure that they tie speed at worst. However, once again, Kyogre will probably triumph here. In order for Groudon to win, it has to win the Speed tie roll for two turns. For the first turn, if Groudon doesn't go first, Water Spout will remove it from the game instantly. For the second turn, if it doesn't win the Speed roll, it dies to any of Kyogre's attacks anyway.

Oh dear, I just shot myself in the foot. :x

Yeah, now that's better :happy:

[ThEcHaMpIoNoFsApPhIrE]

Eh...Kyogre owns Groudon and thats flat, this was discussed a long time ago and I don't want to explain it again, just keep in mind the fact that Kyogre has an edge over Groudon if they battle and the probability that Kyogre would win is ALWAYS greater, nuff' said... http://images.devshed.com/fdh/smilies/z1.gif
......the thing is, they are both legendaries, so it would be kinda a toss up (but Kyuogre has the speed and a KO attack)
It really depends on whose weather is active at the time. Groudon will always 2HKO Kyogre no matter what with Earthquake (unless there's a crit), so Kyogre is the variable. In the sun, Kyogre's attacks will fail to do too much to Groudon, allowing it to remove Kyogre with 2 EQs. In the rain, Surf on its own will OHKO Groudon, so that's a gg.

In neutral weather and EV'd offensively with perfect IVs (252 in Speed, 252 in respective attack, 4 in HP), it really comes down to who wins the speed tie in the second turn, really.
it's gievn info, Kyogre can kick butt
Actually, even if Groudon's weather is in effect, Kyogre still has a better chance of winning; this thread basically compares both, ergo, it would be fallacious to assume that one of the counterparts is EVed etc. So we compare them assuming both have neutral stats (with respect to their base stats) & after that, we come to know the fact that Kyogre does have a better chance to win.
agreed.
Well, yes. In any given battle in Ubers, Kyogre will probably win, simply because Groudon almost never runs max Speed as it has to focus on its Sp. Defense or HP to avoid being eliminated by all the other Special monster ubers.

However, in a 1v1 situation where it's just the two of them duking it out, both of them will probably run absolute max speed to ensure that they tie speed at worst. However, once again, Kyogre will probably triumph here. In order for Groudon to win, it has to win the Speed tie roll for two turns. For the first turn, if Groudon doesn't go first, Water Spout will remove it from the game instantly. For the second turn, if it doesn't win the Speed roll, it dies to any of Kyogre's attacks anyway.

Oh dear, I just shot myself in the foot. :x

ouch....


KYOGRE WINS!

[atucker22]

If groudon knows

Solarbeam
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Eruption

He's almost unstopable

[Elite Dialga]

If groudon knows

Solarbeam
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Eruption

He's almost unstopable

Not really, even a non-EV trained Kyogre will take it down easily.

[atucker22]

Not if it's sunny cause groudon will hit with Solarbeam in 1 turn and kill Kyogre easily

[Elite Dialga]

Not if it's sunny cause groudon will hit with Solarbeam in 1 turn and kill Kyogre easily

Sunny day + Solar Beam does not kill Kyogre in one shot, Groudon Lacks SP.Def (not the dominant stat) where as Kyogre boasts a superior Sp.Def stat, not to mention that Groudon's Solar beam is not influenced by STAB which means that in sunlight, its Solar beam will inflict damage it would have if it was influenced by STAB & besides this, Groudon's speciality is his attack not special attacks, I've given detailed analysis upon this in my previous post in this thread.

[atucker22]

That may be, but Groudon PWNs!!!!!!

[Ranma]

In a one on one fight, Kyogre wins for sure.

I prefer the support of sun over rain, so I like to use Groudon more often.

[Lucky 1276]

Kyogre. I find that rain helps out a ton not only itself but other team mates. Groudon is also awesome though...swords dance is nothing to scoff at.

[Elite Dialga]

That may be, but Groudon PWNs!!!!!!

Yup, Kyogre & Groudon both PAWN!!!!

[fatshine179]

Yup, Kyogre & Groudon both PAWN!!!!

Yep!! but I say Kyogre would win. Drizzle Water Sprout on groudon. But then again, drought Solarbeam on kyogre?.

[Starkipraggy]

The edge Kyogre has over Groudon is that it has the stats to utilise the moves its weather boosts, and it even gets STAB for it. Groudon doesn't, and has to dish out STAB Earthquakes. On the upside, it means Groudon has one less weak, but other than that it doesn't benefit the poor guy at all. But Groudon isn't totally useless without his weather, unlike Kyogre, whose Water Spout will do squat without the weather up because half of its metagame resists Water, and a lot of that metagame also packs high Special Defenses. Groudon smashes through Ubers tier from the mostly unbuffed physical end.

So in terms of metagaming, Groudon is almost certainly better. Kyogre has the raw power, but everybody knows what Kyogre is going to use, so everybody knows what to do to cripple the sucker. Yeah.

[Crummie]

That may be, but Groudon PWNs!!!!!!

n00b.

[atucker22]

n00b.

Actually I was just joking around I'm not a n00b and I hate the saying "PWN"

[Elite Dialga]

Yep!! but I say Kyogre would win. Drizzle Water Sprout on groudon. But then again, drought Solarbeam on kyogre?.

Ummmm...Thats what I've practically said a quadrillion times in this thread, Ive done calculations on the previous pages, have a look, yes Kyogre will win easily most of the time..... :wink:

[SuperErinMan]

But then of course, EDialga, did you consider natures and EVs and IVs and all that other stuff that makes the game so overly complex to people like me who barely know about it?

Assuming you did, then nevermind.

Assuming you DIDN'T, however, then here is a very basic list of what I have compiled based soley on movesets and what I know about their base stats.

Groudon:
Advantages:
-SDay + Solarbeam combo
-Earthquake STAB + High attack stat

Disadvantages:
-Weakness to water from Kyogre
- low Sp. Att. stat for Solarbeam
- Kinda slow...
-No real acceptable alternative attacks if rain is in effect (ie No alternate type attacks that are super effective vs Kyogre)

Kyogre:
Advantages:
- Drizzle + Water spout STAB
- Hydro Pump STAB
- High Sp. Def
- Surf STAB
- Ice Beam/Blizzard possibility if Sun is in effect- no power down.
Disadvantages:
-Weakness to Solarbeam + Elec Attacks (waitaminute thats fine since Groudon cant learn elec attacks anyways:oops:)


Therefore, combined with Elite Dialga's many statements and calculations, this proves that Groudon would most likely lose to Kyogre, unless of course it has max attack EV's, great IVs and a scope lens for STAB Earthquake, in which case there is an extremely slight chance that it might win. But for the most part Kyogre = Winnner.

I'm personally more of a Rayquaza person myself, but thats for another thread.

[Elite Dialga]

But then of course, EDialga, did you consider natures and EVs and IVs and all that other stuff that makes the game so overly complex to people like me who barely know about it?

Assuming you did, then nevermind.

Assuming you DIDN'T, however, then here is a very basic list of what I have compiled based soley on movesets and what I know about their base stats.

Groudon:
Advantages:
-SDay + Solarbeam combo
-Earthquake STAB + High attack stat

Disadvantages:
-Weakness to water from Kyogre
- low Sp. Att. stat for Solarbeam
- Kinda slow...
-No real acceptable alternative attacks if rain is in effect (ie No alternate type attacks that are super effective vs Kyogre)

Kyogre:
Advantages:
- Drizzle + Water spout STAB
- Hydro Pump STAB
- High Sp. Def
- Surf STAB
- Ice Beam/Blizzard possibility if Sun is in effect- no power down.
Disadvantages:
-Weakness to Solarbeam + Elec Attacks (waitaminute thats fine since Groudon cant learn elec attacks anyways:oops:)


Therefore, combined with Elite Dialga's many statements and calculations, this proves that Groudon would most likely lose to Kyogre, unless of course it has max attack EV's, great IVs and a scope lens for STAB Earthquake, in which case there is an extremely slight chance that it might win. But for the most part Kyogre = Winnner.

I'm personally more of a Rayquaza person myself, but thats for another thread.

Yes exactly, atleast you do understand the methods of comparison to an extent, unlike most people. As for the Natures/EVs/IVs, they are ignored since we are comparing two pokemon and if these things are taken into account, then there are infinite possibilities; as aforementioned in my previous posts. :happy:

I do like Dialga more than both of them though.

[Aleeecks]

Groudon and Kyogre normally fill different roles in a team, so it hardly ever comes down to which is better.

Groudon's drought raises the power of Fire attacks. If I remember correctly, Groudon's SP. Attack is nothing special for an Uber. Kyogre on the other hand, will benefit offensively from Drizzle. However, both of these Pokemons' abilities have the potential to hurt themselves. Drought removes Charge-up for Solarbeam, which Groudon is weak against. Kyogre's drought makes Thunder always hit.

Groudon and Kyogre have massive Attack and Special Attack stats, respectively. Personally, I like Groudon more because it is possibly the best Uber Physical Sweeper, and there are already plenty of Special Attack Sweepers for Kyogre to contend with.

[Graceful_Suicune]

I don't know...I've always had a thing for Groudon.
But I don't really like either of them. ;P

~Xanthe.

[Azonic]

SuperErinMan covered most parts of my opinion, but there are a few things I'd like to rectify upon.

Groudon and Kyogre's speed stat are exactly the same, so which one will outrun the other is totally up to IV / Nature / EV distribution. Groudon can't be "kind of slow" when compared to a Pokemon with an identical speed stat.

Anyways, back to my opinion~

Kyogre vs. Groudon would result as Kyogre as the victor; no doubt about that. However, if one would compare their true potential in battling with ways other than facing each other in a showdown, then the result will probably end up as a tossup. I have faced Groudon quite a few times when battling. I was usually caught off guard since Groudon isn't a very frequently used Pokemon in the game; it is unpredictable like an underused Uber Pokemon. You never know what to expect. Some variants are quite threatening.

Overall, my vote still goes to Kyogre. It has the raw power and the ability to gain even more from the weather ability than Groudon can.

Well, that's my two cents on it. ;3

[The Admiral GiMoo]

Kyogre, all the way.