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ronjocox
05-18-2008, 05:51 PM
Deoxys-e @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 104 HP/152 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Wow... you won't see a Deoxy-E lead anywhere. It counters many other leads such as Gyarados, Hippowdon, and Yanmega. It outspeeds Yanmega after one boost. If I think it would switch, I would get Rocks up. It also provides a great late game sweeper.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/64 Atk/192 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

Meh. Sets up Toxic Spikes and Spikes and such. 192 EVs make it have 400 defense. Provides a physical wall to the team.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP/212 Def/58 Spa
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

A great sleep absorber and helps with my ice weak for this team. 212 evs make it have 350 defense.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Standard Scarfchomp. Not much to say, really, but is a great lategame sweeper.


Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave

SpecsLuke does provide revenge kills and can also 2HKO Blissey.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break

Mixmence... the sweet smell of wallbreaking. If people do try to stall me out with Life Orb, I would use Roost to heal.

THREAT LIST:

Gyarados: Deoxy-E
Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence: Suicune or Deoxy-E, if they have yache berry, then Suicune.
Blissey: Garchomp could kill Bliss with stealth rock, and Salamence 2HKOs Blissey.
Breloom: If it's a lead, then Deoxy-E. But if not, Suicune to absorb the sleep.
Skarmory: Salamence
Gengar: Deoxy-E can revenge kill, but I do not have a counter.
T-Tar: Forretress for physical. For special, I tend to revenge kill with Lucario.
Metagross: Forretress
Bronzong: If it doesn't have Heatproof, Salamence.
Infernape: Garchomp could revenge kill it.
Heracross: Salamence
Celebi: I could try to outstall the non-hp fire versions with Forretress.
Starmie: I could try to revenge kill it with Deoxy-E.
Lucario: Revenge kill it with Garchomp or Lucario
Weavile: Lucario
Heatran: Suicune could try to absorb overheat and then rest it off.

dud3
05-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Deoxys-e @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 104 HP/152 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Wow... you won't see a Deoxy-E lead anywhere. It counters many other leads such as Gyarados, Hippowdon, and Yanmega. It outspeeds Yanmega after one boost. If I think it would switch, I would get Rocks up. It also provides a great late game sweeper.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/64 Atk/192 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

Meh. Sets up Toxic Spikes and Spikes and such. 192 EVs make it have 400 defense. Provides a physical wall to the team.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP/212 Def/58 Spa
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

A great sleep absorber and helps with my ice weak for this team. 212 evs make it have 350 defense.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Standard Scarfchomp. Not much to say, really, but is a great lategame sweeper.


Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave

SpecsLuke does provide revenge kills and can also 2HKO Blissey.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break

Mixmence... the sweet smell of wallbreaking. If people do try to stall me out with Life Orb, I would use Roost to heal.

THREAT LIST:

Gyarados: Deoxy-E
Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence: Suicune or Deoxy-E, if they have yache berry, then Suicune.
Blissey: Garchomp could kill Bliss with stealth rock, and Salamence 2HKOs Blissey.
Breloom: If it's a lead, then Deoxy-E. But if not, Suicune to absorb the sleep.
Skarmory: Salamence
Gengar: Deoxy-E can revenge kill, but I do not have a counter.
T-Tar: Forretress for physical. For special, I tend to revenge kill with Lucario.
Metagross: Forretress
Bronzong: If it doesn't have Heatproof, Salamence.
Infernape: Garchomp could revenge kill it.
Heracross: Salamence
Celebi: I could try to outstall the non-hp fire versions with Forretress.
Starmie: I could try to revenge kill it with Deoxy-E.
Lucario: Revenge kill it with Garchomp or Lucario
Weavile: Lucario
Heatran: Suicune could try to absorb overheat and then rest it off.


Everything Looks Good. All you gotta do is Put A GHOST in your team so if they try to spin everything. It won't work.

Viva la Gofre
05-18-2008, 06:18 PM
Everything Looks Good. All you gotta do is Put A GHOST in your team so if they try to spin everything. It won't work.
That's a good point. If you're relying on latent damage a spin blocker would be very useful. Perhaps gengar over lucario? I'd also consider hippowdon over mixmence for additional latent damage, seeing as your current team handles sandstorm quite well.

Spongebob Number One Fan
05-18-2008, 11:09 PM
A spin blocker would help a lot.

for a team that relies on entry hazards to damage stuff, I'm surprised by the lack of a PHazer. They are really helpful at abusing your spikes and whatnot, especially if they resttalk (to ignore the negative priority). Consider Roar on Suicune, and I would also consider running Crocune (since it's generally more useful than your current set).

Also, Lucario doesn't counter Weavile. Ever. you do have forretress to do that, but I must point it out.

Also, Celebi is one of the best stallers out there...outstalling it with Forretress isn't going to happen. you really could use a PHazer for BPers, and moer importantly, to abuse your own spikes. A spin blocker would probably be of use to you as well, since your team is revolving around that.

Viva la Gofre
05-19-2008, 07:30 AM
Also, Lucario doesn't counter Weavile. Ever. you do have forretress to do that, but I must point it out.

Actually specs boosted STAB priority vacuum wave says hi to weavile's quad weakness :)

EDIT: I ran the calcs, and (Assuming perfect IVs) a vacuum wave would do 160-188% damage toa standard weavile running 40HP EVs. In fact a weavile would need to run 252 SpDef and 252HP and a posetive nature to survive, and even then said vacuum wave would still do 95-112%

Oh and a CB ice shard from a standard jolly weavile will only knock about a quarter of lucarios health off, so it cant even out-prioritise it.

Spongebob Number One Fan
05-19-2008, 07:32 PM
Actually specs boosted STAB priority vacuum wave says hi to weavile's quad weakness :)

EDIT: I ran the calcs, and (Assuming perfect IVs) a vacuum wave would do 160-188% damage toa standard weavile running 40HP EVs. In fact a weavile would need to run 252 SpDef and 252HP and a posetive nature to survive, and even then said vacuum wave would still do 95-112%

Oh and a CB ice shard from a standard jolly weavile will only knock about a quarter of lucarios health off, so it cant even out-prioritise it.

A counter has to be able to switch in...have fun with Brick Break! Even if it doesn't KO, Weavile can leave and come in later, where Lucario will be at low health and will die. If it's an LO Weavile, BB will do enough that if it doesn't kill Weavile, it can waste it with Ice Shard.

In other words, Lucario isn't even close to a Weavile counter =/ That's like saying Weavile is a Garchomp counter because of Ice Shard, when that obviously isn't true.

Mitsuzo-kun
05-19-2008, 07:59 PM
A counter has to be able to switch in...have fun with Brick Break! Even if it doesn't KO, Weavile can leave and come in later, where Lucario will be at low health and will die. If it's an LO Weavile, BB will do enough that if it doesn't kill Weavile, it can waste it with Ice Shard.

In other words, Lucario isn't even close to a Weavile counter =/ That's like saying Weavile is a Garchomp counter because of Ice Shard, when that obviously isn't true.Looking at his team, Weavile isn't gonna be using Brick Break on anything, except POSSIBLY Forretress, but even then it'll most likely switch out. Lucario's gonna switch in on either Night Slash or Ice Punch/Shard, both of which it resists. Even if Weavile does switch out again before Lucario can kill it with Vacuum Wave, it's still only gonna be throwing Night Slash's and Ice Punch/Shard's around. Therefor, for this team anyways, Lucario seems to be a pretty good Weavile counter.

Spongebob Number One Fan
05-19-2008, 10:15 PM
I guess I have not made this clear enough.

Lucario is NOT a Weavile counter and it never will be. Ever. Period.

If Lucario is the initial switch on Weavile, you better believe Brick Break is coming the next time around. Garchomp and Salamence don't particularly like Weavile and will obviously switch out, so your "counter" has a chance of getting obliterated by Brick Break. This can get into a little prediction game of its own, but I really doubt anybody is going to be switching Salamence in on Weavile thinking Brick Break is coming, as it's too big of a risk.

It doesn't even matter considering Forretress laughs at it anyways. That still doesn't stop Lucario from NOT being a Weavile counter. It can't switch in on Brick Break, so it isn't a counter. Simple enough, eh?

What's so ironic about this is that this team isn't Weavile weak. I don't really like being corrected when I'm not wrong though =/

EDIT: not to sound all annoyed, but the concept is really quite simple. By definition, a counter has to be able to switch in, and Lucario cannot safely switch in. It's pretty simple.

Starkipraggy
05-19-2008, 10:33 PM
What's so ironic about this is that this team isn't Weavile weak.

Ya know, he's right. :O What we should be thinking about is a Starmie counter. That thing is godly. Enough to sweep quite a few Pokes.

And yes, you need a Ghost type. Frankly, I'm surprised you don't have one. :O Spiritomb over Suicune? (DON'T TRY THIS! YOU NEED SUICUNE! This is just a joke. :P) Gengar over Lucario? lul.

Fire Away
05-19-2008, 10:37 PM
Shadow Ball>Dark Pulse on Lucario. Heracross laughs at you otherwise.

Spiritomb should go in somewhere. Probably over MixMence, because Specs Lucario already breaks the most common walls anyways.

Starkipraggy
05-20-2008, 07:11 AM
Shadow Ball>Dark Pulse on Lucario. Heracross laughs at you otherwise.

Spiritomb should go in somewhere. Probably over MixMence, because Specs Lucario already breaks the most common walls anyways.
Doesn't Hera also resist Shadow Ball? @_@ EDIT: Oh yeah, it doesn't.

And my Specs Lucario got pwnt by a Blissey and a Heatran...Are you sure it breaks the most common walls?

What about Starmie counter? :O Starmie is crazy godly and it's a Rapid Spinner...

...Wait, since when was Deoxys-E not uber? It's obscenely fast and its offenses are decent enough to pwn stuff.

ronjocox
05-20-2008, 01:53 PM
Doesn't Hera also resist Shadow Ball? @_@ EDIT: Oh yeah, it doesn't.

And my Specs Lucario got pwnt by a Blissey and a Heatran...Are you sure it breaks the most common walls?

What about Starmie counter? :O Starmie is crazy godly and it's a Rapid Spinner...

...Wait, since when was Deoxys-E not uber? It's obscenely fast and its offenses are decent enough to pwn stuff.

Shoddy.

Lucario 2HKOs Blissey, and it shouldn't even stay on a Heatran unless you know it's not Scarfed. Heatran is used as a sweeper also...

xXPrimalDialgaXx
05-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Deoxys-e @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 104 HP/152 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Wow... you won't see a Deoxy-E lead anywhere. It counters many other leads such as Gyarados, Hippowdon, and Yanmega. It outspeeds Yanmega after one boost. If I think it would switch, I would get Rocks up. It also provides a great late game sweeper.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/64 Atk/192 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

Meh. Sets up Toxic Spikes and Spikes and such. 192 EVs make it have 400 defense. Provides a physical wall to the team.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP/212 Def/58 Spa
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

A great sleep absorber and helps with my ice weak for this team. 212 evs make it have 350 defense.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Standard Scarfchomp. Not much to say, really, but is a great lategame sweeper.


Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave

SpecsLuke does provide revenge kills and can also 2HKO Blissey.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break

Mixmence... the sweet smell of wallbreaking. If people do try to stall me out with Life Orb, I would use Roost to heal.

THREAT LIST:

Gyarados: Deoxy-E
Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence: Suicune or Deoxy-E, if they have yache berry, then Suicune.
Blissey: Garchomp could kill Bliss with stealth rock, and Salamence 2HKOs Blissey.
Breloom: If it's a lead, then Deoxy-E. But if not, Suicune to absorb the sleep.
Skarmory: Salamence
Gengar: Deoxy-E can revenge kill, but I do not have a counter.
T-Tar: Forretress for physical. For special, I tend to revenge kill with Lucario.
Metagross: Forretress
Bronzong: If it doesn't have Heatproof, Salamence.
Infernape: Garchomp could revenge kill it.
Heracross: Salamence
Celebi: I could try to outstall the non-hp fire versions with Forretress.
Starmie: I could try to revenge kill it with Deoxy-E.
Lucario: Revenge kill it with Garchomp or Lucario
Weavile: Lucario
Heatran: Suicune could try to absorb overheat and then rest it off.

This seems like a well done team.
It' pretty balanced and has the power of only two legendaries.
Well done!

~temporal

Fire Away
05-20-2008, 09:04 PM
Doesn't Hera also resist Shadow Ball? @_@ EDIT: Oh yeah, it doesn't.

And my Specs Lucario got pwnt by a Blissey and a Heatran...Are you sure it breaks the most common walls?

What about Starmie counter? :O Starmie is crazy godly and it's a Rapid Spinner...

...Wait, since when was Deoxys-E not uber? It's obscenely fast and its offenses are decent enough to pwn stuff.

lol. Deoxys-E.

Tell me what about that is uber. Please. :rolleyes:

If your Specs Lucario got owned by Blissey, it had horrible IVs or a bad nature or something. Aura Sphere 2HKOs.

Starkipraggy
05-20-2008, 09:25 PM
lol. Deoxys-E.

Tell me what about that is uber. Please. :rolleyes:

If your Specs Lucario got owned by Blissey, it had horrible IVs or a bad nature or something. Aura Sphere 2HKOs.
Shoddy. I went Timid. I don't have D/P. T.T

-checks Deoxys-E's stats- I could have sworn this thing had over 100 base in both attacks last time I checked...Ah crap, Speed Deoxys sucks royally now. It's still the fastest Pokemon in the game on the first turn tho.

And we haven't settled the issue of which ghost-type to use and which Pokemon it would go over. :) I have no idea whether to go with Gengar or Spiritomb, because I'm quite sure I have no idea of the repercussions of using either because I've never touched them in 4th gen before... x_x

Fire Away
05-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Shoddy. I went Timid. I don't have D/P. T.T

-checks Deoxys-E's stats- I could have sworn this thing had over 100 base in both attacks last time I checked...Ah crap, Speed Deoxys sucks royally now. It's still the fastest Pokemon in the game on the first turn tho.

And we haven't settled the issue of which ghost-type to use and which Pokemon it would go over. :) I have no idea whether to go with Gengar or Spiritomb, because I'm quite sure I have no idea of the repercussions of using either because I've never touched them in 4th gen before... x_x

You have to go Modest, given that Timid lets you outspeed a whole Electivire.

Spiritomb is the better option. He has great defenses, which is what this team seems to be built upon.