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HKim
08-16-2008, 05:31 PM
One of the first of the many changes planned involve something called the URPG Council.

The Council is composed of the Moderators and Leader of the URPG. Basically, its a governing body in which all major decisions are discussed and then voted on. Any additional sections to the UPRG, new officials, and disciplinary actions are all discussed here. The Council is here to provide a variety of opinions on the various ideas proposed and to vote for or against them.

If a motion passes, the moderators implement it and it becomes a part of the UPRG. This prevents any one person from making a decision due to bias. In addition, if a Council member is absent, the rest of the Council can continue running the URPG.

I plan to request from Ryan a special section in which URPG Moderators and Officials can post in private, thus allowing all leaders in the URPG to state and voice their opinions. Ultimately the decisions do remain in the hands of the Council, but in this way, people will have a chance to say what they want. With over 15 leaders in the URPG, you can easily talk with any of them to discuss your idea. And of course, the Trainer's Court will always be open for anyone to post their innovations.

The URPG should never be without firm leadership and the Council is one way of guaranteeing that.

Pokol DaErran
08-16-2008, 05:33 PM
One of the first of the many changes planned involve something called the URPG Council.

The Council is composed of the Moderators and Leader of the URPG. Basically, its a governing body in which all major decisions are discussed and then voted on. Any additional sections to the UPRG, new officials, and disciplinary actions are all discussed here. The Council is here to provide a variety of opinions on the various ideas proposed and to vote for or against them.

If a motion passes, the moderators implement it and it becomes a part of the UPRG. This prevents any one person from making a decision due to bias. In addition, if a Council member is absent, the rest of the Council can continue running the URPG.

I plan to request from Ryan a special section in which URPG Moderators and Officials can post in private, thus allowing all leaders in the URPG to state and voice their opinions. Ultimately the decisions do remain in the hands of the Council, but in this way, people will have a chance to say what they want. With over 15 leaders in the URPG, you can easily talk with any of them to discuss your idea. And of course, the Trainer's Court will always be open for anyone to post their innovations.

The URPG should never be without firm leadership and the Council is one way of guaranteeing that.
I like it, but do the commoners get to vote?

-Pichu Boy-
08-16-2008, 05:36 PM
I like the idea, but would we get a brief description of what you discussed, if you actually go through with what you've discussed? Or at least, if the Council votes on something, tell us the amount of votes for each side it got, so we can see how close anything actually was (banning, etc...)

Also, would we still be denied reasons as to banning and stuff?

poke123
08-16-2008, 05:36 PM
Alright, so fossils were taken out of the underground by Jack. So, now that you're in charge, are you going to change that?

Ataro
08-16-2008, 05:43 PM
Alright, so fossils were taken out of the underground by Jack. So, now that you're in charge, are you going to change that?

-_- That was a decision made since there were too many fossils given out. The way your asking was as if Jack made a stupid decision. :tongue:

Frozen_in_Time
08-16-2008, 05:46 PM
I like this idea ^^
But like Pokol DaErran said what about normal members?
And concerning the fossils... how is it possible to get Aerodactyl now?
EDIT: Nevermind, the answer is; via stories ^^

Ataro
08-16-2008, 05:46 PM
I like this idea ^^
But like Pokol DaErran said what about normal members?
And concerning the fossils... how is it possible to get Aerodactyl now?

Stop being lazy and go write some stories or actually earn it for yourself.

-PK
08-16-2008, 05:46 PM
I like this idea ^^
But like Pokol DaErran said what about normal members?
And concerning the fossils... how is it possible to get Aerodactyl now?
The old fashion way. Writing and winning it fom various things, and from trades.

Ataro beat me ;_;

Frozen_in_Time
08-16-2008, 05:48 PM
Stop being lazy and go write some stories or actually earn it for yourself.

^^ I forgot about then ^^,

poke123
08-16-2008, 05:49 PM
-_- That was a decision made since there were too many fossils given out. The way your asking was as if Jack made a stupid decision. :tongue:

Lol, my bad. I was just wondering if fossils would be returned. I understand why Jack took the fossils out, but I was wondering if Hkim had a different view and if he would change it.

Dark Lightning
08-16-2008, 06:02 PM
Stop being lazy and go write some stories or actually earn it for yourself.
Wasn't that just a teeny bit harsh? :o
Anyways, I like this new idea.

HKim
08-16-2008, 06:17 PM
It's true that there has been concern in regards to too many fossils being handed out.

I have heard many suggestions ranging from lowering the chances of them appearing to replacing them with something else such as a Gold Nugget.

Perhaps one of you would like to post a thread about it in the Court Section? I'm sure a lot of people have various opinions on the matter.

Fever
08-16-2008, 06:20 PM
Lol. Like, we have a Parliament. A government. A Prime Minister. (A President, for our American friends.) We rock.

Question: Are we as a people allowed to vote?

Question Two: Can we submit ideas to the Council (via a specific suggestions thread, like those lil boxes they have in schools?) or must our ideas be noticed without our bugging members mentioning them?

Question Three: Do you need a secretary?

Question Four: Can you guys discuss something more relevant than fossils? Lol.

Pokol DaErran
08-16-2008, 06:22 PM
It's true that there has been concern in regards to too many fossils being handed out.
I have heard many suggestions ranging from lowering the chances of them appearing to replacing them with something else such as a Gold Nugget.
Perhaps one of you would like to post a thread about it in the Court Section? I'm sure a lot of people have various opinions on the matter.
Voila! (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87692)

HKim
08-16-2008, 06:33 PM
Lol. Like, we have a Parliament. A government. A Prime Minister. (A President, for our American friends.) We rock.

Question: Are we as a people allowed to vote?

Question Two: Can we submit ideas to the Council (via a specific suggestions thread, like those lil boxes they have in schools?) or must our ideas be noticed without our bugging members mentioning them?

Question Three: Do you need a secretary?

Question Four: Can you guys discuss something more relevant than fossils? Lol.


Heh, the council does make the decision. The difference from before is that instead of one person making the decision (Jack) it's multiple people with different viewpoints.

Things like voting for the banners and the Story Competition will and always will be a vote by the members.


I recommend ideas be posted in the Court Section. Think of it as a place where new innovations can be suggested and discussed. However, if it involved something more private, you can contact one of the moderators or myself and we can discuss it.


Secretary? How would that work out?

Pokol DaErran
08-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Secretary? How would that work out?
I'd imagine they handle the wages and stuff like that while the mods do lazy stuff. XD
Of course, the payment they request might not make it worth it...

Fever
08-16-2008, 07:07 PM
I mean someone to do menial tasks, keep records, notes, pass on messages, etc. You know; paperwork. Lol. It wouldn't have to be a lot of money; it could be just like fifty to a hundred $ per basic job.

:cool:

-Sky

-PK
08-16-2008, 07:12 PM
I mean someone to do menial tasks, keep records, notes, pass on messages, etc. You know; paperwork. Lol. It wouldn't have to be a lot of money; it could be just like fifty to a hundred $ per basic job.

:cool:

-Sky
Is it really necessary to have that if the threads that are made about the subjects are un-deleted?

Milotic Master1
08-16-2008, 07:51 PM
Stop being lazy and go write some stories or actually earn it for yourself.

Ataro quit giving people lip like that. You didn't earn your Aerodactyl that way, so don't be harsh or I'll call you on it.

The URPG council thing is cool I guess, as long as us commoners get at least some say in it.

Fossil Fusion
08-16-2008, 08:18 PM
Stop being lazy and go write some stories or actually earn it for yourself.

I actually lol'd at this.

Anyways this seems like a good idea but however when we update Officials Ryan wont be around 99% of the time and cant update the list...

Dr Scott
08-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Think of us as representatives. You're free to bring up issues to the Trainer's Court and to respectfully PM or IM moderators if you really want to get the word out. Try not to do it all at once though, we cry when we're swamped. So yeah, you get some say in it, just pick a representative and appeal your case.

And what, Younglink? All we have to do is edit the thread when we pick officials, that can be done by any URPG mod ... Or do you mean new moderators? 'Cus if so we have enough already, at least for now. Or do you mean update officially? O_o

Color me confused.

Fossil Fusion
08-16-2008, 08:33 PM
Think of us as representatives. You're free to bring up issues to the Trainer's Court and to respectfully PM or IM moderators if you really want to get the word out. Try not to do it all at once though, we cry when we're swamped. So yeah, you get some say in it, just pick a representative and appeal your case.

And what, Younglink? All we have to do is edit the thread when we pick officials, that can be done by any URPG mod ... Or do you mean new moderators? 'Cus if so we have enough already, at least for now. Or do you mean update officially? O_o

Color me confused.

What I meant was if it was like a little board like a secret area where no one else could post except Officials/mods but I may have been mistaken!

Dr Scott
08-16-2008, 08:38 PM
OHHHH XD.

You're right, the officials list changes so much it'd be hard for Ryan to catch up with. Though we could always use the URPG Backup Forums for that, as it would be easier to keep up with. It could be used just for a discussion board of sorts, since we can go ahead and do whatever we want there :o.

DaRkUmBrEoN
08-16-2008, 08:40 PM
OR! Ryan could just give Harry group priviliges, so he can add and take away rights to view the board for officials.

It's not that hard to do.

-]DU[-

Ataro
08-17-2008, 06:19 AM
Ataro quit giving people lip like that. You didn't earn your Aerodactyl that way, so don't be harsh or I'll call you on it.

The URPG council thing is cool I guess, as long as us commoners get at least some say in it.

Although I didn't really earn my Aerodactyl myself, but I paid about >$30k. Meaning, I reffed many battles to get Aerodactyl. :ermm:

Milotic Master1
08-18-2008, 01:05 PM
Although I didn't really earn my Aerodactyl myself, but I paid about >$30k. Meaning, I reffed many battles to get Aerodactyl. :ermm:

You reffed a average of 30 2v2's, or 15 3v3 . You can't compare that to writing for a demanding. I didn't like your tone anyhow, you're suppose to be an official and handle yourself accordingly.

Fever
08-20-2008, 09:47 AM
Is it really necessary to have that if the threads that are made about the subjects are un-deleted?
I guess not, but I would have thought that a summary might have been better than trawling through an entire board. Forget it then; maybe it was a daft idea.

koolcurtis
08-21-2008, 10:02 AM
I don't know who these council members are, but sometimes you need a single leader rather than a council. Mods are good for advice and any decision made by the council should be given to the leader, but the leader should have the final decision. There needs to be a leader to take all the glory and/or to take all the shame. with a council, there can be fighting between members, pointing fingers, and trying to place blame on eachother.

EX: Right now, my state of CA is VERY LATE at forming a state budget for the next year and the elected officials are fighting back and forth at eachother getting nowhere. If there was a leader in charge, they can make decisions quick and efficiently.

With a single leader, they must take all the heat and that is how i think this place should be run. A single leader with mods being advisors.

P.S. I don't know who the current mods are, so please don't take this as offensive. It's just that when i was here, mods weren't the best choice to have run the show. they all had their own expertises, but never were able to see THE BIG PICTURE.

flareon008
08-21-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't know who these council members are, but sometimes you need a single leader rather than a council. Mods are good for advice and any decision made by the council should be given to the leader, but the leader should have the final decision. There needs to be a leader to take all the glory and/or to take all the shame. with a council, there can be fighting between members, pointing fingers, and trying to place blame on eachother.

EX: Right now, my state of CA is VERY LATE at forming a state budget for the next year and the elected officials are fighting back and forth at eachother getting nowhere. If there was a leader in charge, they can make decisions quick and efficiently.

With a single leader, they must take all the heat and that is how i think this place should be run. A single leader with mods being advisors.

P.S. I don't know who the current mods are, so please don't take this as offensive. It's just that when i was here, mods weren't the best choice to have run the show. they all had their own expertises, but never were able to see THE BIG PICTURE.

Ha, guess who told them the same thing. :happy:

Dr Scott
08-21-2008, 07:00 PM
That hurts my feelings Curt :(.

But we kinda do have a single leader, we're just making a 'failsafe' if you will. If there's a tie within the 'council' of mods, then the leader (Kim) has the final say because he is just that. So he has the last say in the big decisions.

And he gets to make all the big announcements.

flareon008
08-22-2008, 04:23 AM
That hurts my feelings Curt :(.

But we kinda do have a single leader, we're just making a 'failsafe' if you will. If there's a tie within the 'council' of mods, then the leader (Kim) has the final say because he is just that. So he has the last say in the big decisions.

And he gets to make all the big announcements.

:rolleyes: you're just calling it a council now, no different than how it was run from before. The only reason you're calling it a "fail-safe," because the leader was lacking action, or a right state of mind for that matter. One of you mods could stepped up.

Dr Scott
08-22-2008, 05:15 AM
There's a difference.

Before the final say was the leader. We couldn't really take action without Jack's say or else it didn't hold as much meeting, and there was the possibility of problems when the ol' Leprechaun came back.

As it is now mods can work with matters, and it's not ALL up to the leader. It's a vote for the most part, but if it comes to a tie then the leader takes charge. And small matters are given to moderators, they don't have to really talk everything out with the big wigs to pull any weight.

The leader deals with the big matters, makes the pretty speeches about big changes, and breaks ties.

So yes, it is a council, made with a fail-safe, etc.

flareon008
08-22-2008, 06:33 PM
I was told to add, "No Offense":

So basically, you're logic behind it all is, "I'm not going to do anything, because I'm worried what Jack will say?" This is coming from the guy who time and time again kept telling us Jack stepped down and left the mods in charge. So I may be crazy, but it just sounds like you'd rather twiddle your thumbs and say, "not my problem." Actions speak louder than words. Mods didn't do anything.

The leader was always meant to make the big decisions. The leader is suppose to be the role model; to be able to gather the various opinions and arguments and make peace for the most part. Leader's have always taken the inputs of the players and mods. You're just spinning it make it sound like there is more power for all. We've always had heads of story graders, refs, gyms. Not everything was left to the leader to decide.

You say council with fail-safe, I say you getting testicles back.

Scale of 1-10, how much of an urge to lock this thread?

Dr Scott
08-22-2008, 06:41 PM
I guess you need to actually be in the loop to understand, old man.

With Jack, anything we did could easily have been taken back by a single word from him. He could have come back, told Ryan to not listen to us or demod us, and then where would we be? I'm not saying he would, but nothing he did could be sure unless he gave the OK.

So we can't really 'take control' when all he has to do is come back and say 'no' and we lose all the power we had. At the very least it would have started a URPG civil war, which would make it all worse.

We handled it the right way, and the difference here is that the leaders word isn't always the last say. Before if every other mod said "No, I dno't think Joe should be a mod" and lets say yuo said "yes!" he would have become a mod. Now it has to be a majority decision. Make sense?

And I'm locking it because it's pointless now, you're arguing something you obviously don't fully understand.

HKim
08-23-2008, 12:48 AM
Then let us work together and talk to understand.

It's clear that the idea of the council is not fully formed or understood. It won't be until the system is in place and the precedents have been set. It has only been a week since Jack stepped down and we initiated these changes. Quite frankly I am surprised there are not more questions.

Flare, while I do appreciate you feedback and expertise on the URPG, I do not appreciate you insulting a member of my team. You are right, the council is not fully explained, nor fully decided upon. Even Mike, one of the members of this council, is not here yet to comment. There is a lot of things that need to be worked out over the next few weeks. I believe this is something that we can all figure out, together. However, I would like you refrain from insulting Scott. We don't need this baiting. We need a discussion.

Scott, thank you for trying to prevent a flame war, but I rather allow this conversation to continue. The biggest problem I see in the URPG is a sad need for communication. Communication between members and moderators, moderators and moderators, and members and members. How can we share an idea if no one will listen? How can we discuss a problem if every time it is brought up, someone locks a thread? No, I refuse to let the URPG become so closed circuit that we become out of touch. Flare brings up a lot of good points and questions. We must do our best to answer them. Yes, he is very brutal in his wording and he's wrong to bait you. But he's also someone who once lead the URPG and knows how we once did things. He has a lot to say and we should listen and reply.

I need both of you if we're going to make the URPG a better place. I need everyone if we are going to do what it takes to reforge this family. That's going to take trust. That's going to take devotion. And it's going to take respect. Respect for those we may not like, but at least can listen and talk with. This is a conversation.

Thread Unlocked.

Jack of Clovers
08-23-2008, 07:02 AM
We have mods and section officials because I trust that they can decide URPG issues themselves without the need to go through me. What I tried to do was to have you guys run your areas of expertise, occasionally keeping me up to date and asking for opinions on ideas. I would tackle the big issues and organise as needed. As flare mentioned, I was hoping someone would step up to the plate while I was inactive, or at least talk to me, but didn't get much. And I was quite surprised it took so long for you guys to talk to me. I was and will always be open for discussion, and will listen to anything anyone has to say, even if it's about me. And learning what you guys said in that chat, I'm more determined to help the forum/URPG as best I can.

Let's not dwell on what should or shouldn't have happened in the past, but rather concentrate on what we need to do now.

~Jack~

Dr Scott
08-23-2008, 07:33 AM
Meh, I don't see why this needs to be discussed here, but ok.

When you 'retired' we all gave ideas, but we really can't do too much without your final say. Basically, you hadn't passed on the torch, so we were all playing hot pocket with it.

And with a leader people feel like they HAVE to go through you, because the way it's been run the leader needs to have the last say. For example, Marth and Mike made all these rules and were set to make them and you came back and changed them around. Which is fine, but if you want to change everything up before we post them we don't really feel like we have the power to do too much without you OKing it. So in a sense you made us feel like we needed to go through you. (Which is different now)

And without a centralized leader telling us who was taking over we all ended up doing our own thing, which led to some problems with power and confused moderators. Like Harry, he didn't want to take power until you posted to confirm it, he thought it would be right if you did it. And he was right, if someone had just 'taken' power then it could be easy for another mod to disagree, a civil war insues, Ryan wouldn't know who to listen to, etc. It was just better to run it by you, or else there would be too much possibilities for bad instances. Or you could have come back, decided you wanted to be leader again, and took over again. (Also took care of this)

I never saw you online to talk to you, you're invisible a lot. You didn't really make yourself that open to be discussed with, it felt like. Even when we had that last meeting that you wanted you were very distant and barely even said anything.

So yeah, this is what it's like from my point of view. I'm not going to reply here, I'm not going to lock it (even though I stand by it), etc.

Have a nice day.

Trainer17
08-25-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm posting this on behalf on May Norman.

ShadowedF (10:59:46 PM): Harry said that someone else can post for me.

So yeah.
-End of Trainer17's speech.


I sincerely apologize for making a post here...I just wanted to be clarified on a couple of things.

Firstly, does the leader have any power without his councillors? Is the leader going to be a virtual powerless puppet?Excuse my wording, but is the system going to be where the leader has no authority of his own and all his powers are actually with the moderators, and he has no authority to veto or put forward a new decision without first taking the advice or 'permission' from other moderators?

Secondly, will any decisions, or similar proposals be put forward to the public for their opinion to see their comments/opinion on this?

And finally, Is there a guarantee that there wont be a sort of coterie or cartel to put forward proposals? Example: Assuming there are seven referee and four grader or something similar officials in the URPG. One of them proposes to raise the reffing salaries. The idea is NOT feasible, but if they outnumber the graders seven to four, will the situation be that the leader is not allowed to veto this, and other similar ideas, that he will be later blamed for? In general, if a leader does not like any idea in particular, will he get the final say in it, whether or not to approve or veto it?

SiberianTiger
08-25-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm posting this on behalf on May Norman.

ShadowedF (10:59:46 PM): Harry said that someone else can post for me.

So yeah.
-End of Trainer17's speech.


I sincerely apologize for making a post here...I just wanted to be clarified on a couple of things.

Firstly, does the leader have any power without his councillors? Is the leader going to be a virtual powerless puppet?Excuse my wording, but is the system going to be where the leader has no authority of his own and all his powers are actually with the moderators, and he has no authority to veto or put forward a new decision without first taking the advice or 'permission' from other moderators?

Yes, cause that would make so much sense. It's a council, yes, but that doesn't mean that Hkim can't by any means overule a proposal if he felt the need to do. After all, he is still the leader.

Secondly, will any decisions, or similar proposals be put forward to the public for their opinion to see their comments/opinion on this?

Depends on the proposals. I'd venture.

And finally, Is there a guarantee that there wont be a sort of coterie or cartel to put forward proposals? Example: Assuming there are seven referee and four grader or something similar officials in the URPG. One of them proposes to raise the reffing salaries. The idea is NOT feasible, but if they outnumber the graders seven to four, will the situation be that the leader is not allowed to veto this, and other similar ideas, that he will be later blamed for? In general, if a leader does not like any idea in particular, will he get the final say in it, whether or not to approve or veto it?

I lol'ed. Guarantees. Like I said before, We still have a leader and to be honest, this council idea hasn't even been fully implemented, yet if does indeed become a mainstay.

You so think like a modern day U. Grant in your field.

~Isaiah

Fever
08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
I'm posting this on behalf on May Norman.

ShadowedF (10:59:46 PM): Harry said that someone else can post for me.

So yeah.
-End of Trainer17's speech.


I sincerely apologize for making a post here...I just wanted to be clarified on a couple of things.

Firstly, does the leader have any power without his councillors? Is the leader going to be a virtual powerless puppet?Excuse my wording, but is the system going to be where the leader has no authority of his own and all his powers are actually with the moderators, and he has no authority to veto or put forward a new decision without first taking the advice or 'permission' from other moderators?

Secondly, will any decisions, or similar proposals be put forward to the public for their opinion to see their comments/opinion on this?

And finally, Is there a guarantee that there wont be a sort of coterie or cartel to put forward proposals? Example: Assuming there are seven referee and four grader or something similar officials in the URPG. One of them proposes to raise the reffing salaries. The idea is NOT feasible, but if they outnumber the graders seven to four, will the situation be that the leader is not allowed to veto this, and other similar ideas, that he will be later blamed for? In general, if a leader does not like any idea in particular, will he get the final say in it, whether or not to approve or veto it?



May, English is cool. Really, it is. ^-^

I think we can trust Harry as our leader, but I'm sure he'll keep the place democratic whatever decisions are made...we can always object, right? ^^

Marth
08-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Actually, ST, you're a bit off here.

The council is designed so that everyone has the same power. Harry is the head of the council, which means he is the representant of the council before the people.

On major decision taking, each council member has one vote. In the case of a tie, it would be up to Harry to decide wheter to approve or not a certain proposal. Yet if five council members are in favor, and only Harry is against, the majority would have the ultimate decision.

This is to prevent one person from having all the power, instead it being shared between a council consisting of members with different thoughts and ideals, in order to achieve an objective analysis.

But I stress the following: Harry is the head of the council, and thus he is in charge of it working well, and taking decisions in case of a tie.

Most decisions will be left to the main council, but another council is also proposed (one composed of officials and ex-moderators), who would in turn give feedback and another point of view to the mods. How much power this other council has has not been decided yet.

Frozen_in_Time
08-25-2008, 06:33 PM
I decided that I would go ahead and say what I belive the URPG needs fixed.

Okay, the first one is that everyone always says that you must voice your opinions, such as Flareon has done many times, but as soon as one of the problems concerns a mod everyone says to stop it. I am glad that we have a form of an actual leader now (Harry) But I think that we need another, the reason being that Ryan, our admin, is the only leader and now we have no forum leadership (we have a slight one, but I think that we need more, but this is the wrong topic for that).
I think that we need to cut off some of the older, inactuve mods/refs and add some new ones (I realise that we have added some new mods and are adding ref testers, but we need a stronger system of leaders). But I shall stop there on that topic.

The next, may not be as seriously taken, but quite a big issue for some. the problem is bullying and inappropriate behaviour. But the problem with this is that the culprits mind to keep from getting banned and only act "strangely" over IM. I actually have no idea how we could solve this besides creating rules for battling on IM. For example; during an FFA some of the older members metion innapropriate things to the younger members (no, I am not talking about myself ;o i am old enough) But there is too much talk about sex and swearing (mainly during FFA's) and that I find majorly wrong. Another example is where one member dislikes another to the extent of embarrasing them infront of other members and jeering at them during battles and FFA's.

Well, that is all that I can think of at this moment but if I notice anything else I will be sure to report back, since I think that the URPG needs to get a slightly better infrastructure.
Well, I am simply voicing my opinions and that are they.

-Berry
<Some of the spelling may be incorrect since the spellcheck is set to Dutch xD>

Milotic Master1
08-25-2008, 06:39 PM
Flare won't stop buggin me about this, so I might as well post =P.

First off is some smuff to Jack. Dude, history repeats itself, so we are gonna reflect on your past leadership to avoid problems, its inevitable. The council is a decent idea because we'd keep contact with the head. With you you were a whackamole, you'd come around and rule when you felt like it. It was a pain to catch you and present our own case as well, the council helps to keep the connection of member to mod to leader, something your rule had difficulty with. HKim, hopefully won't make the mistakes you did =X.

Segundo in this, the council. This hole democracy idea on voting is bleh. URPG is far from a democracy, the council should be open to be able to express opinions and make valid points, but the idea of "voting" just makes it more cluttery and divided. URPG was run with heads of departments and a leader who called the shots, if everyone disagrees with the head then something is obviously wrong, but they will almost always be na -ayers, you can't please everyone either in decisions either, so opposition will exist regardless of how united we are. I support the idea of the council to a extent that the head still calls the big shots, but this entire "lets vote guys!" idea is icky and will just cause more division in URPG, everyone is allowed to express their opinion, so just allowing voting for a selected few is unfair to the rest of URPG.

Raul, sometimes its best to give someone a big chunk of power, that would be Harry. I see you wanna prevent one from keeping all the power, but to be a leader you have the ultimate say in it.

The problem with the idea giving to Jack was he would just leave and come as he pleases, plus he let his biasness intrude in what is best in URPG =P. HKim is a different type of leader than Jack was, but if he wants the council then its his say.

Yay, I'm done ^_^.

Frozen_in_Time
08-25-2008, 06:49 PM
I decided that I would go ahead and say what I belive the URPG needs fixed.

Okay, the first one is that everyone always says that you must voice your opinions, such as Flareon has done many times, but as soon as one of the problems concerns a mod everyone says to stop it. I am glad that we have a form of an actual leader now (Harry) But I think that we need another, the reason being that Ryan, our admin, is the only leader and now we have no forum leadership (we have a slight one, but I think that we need more, but this is the wrong topic for that).
I think that we need to cut off some of the older, inactuve mods/refs and add some new ones (I realise that we have added some new mods and are adding ref testers, but we need a stronger system of leaders). But I shall stop there on that topic.

The next, may not be as seriously taken, but quite a big issue for some. the problem is bullying and inappropriate behaviour. But the problem with this is that the culprits mind to keep from getting banned and only act "strangely" over IM. I actually have no idea how we could solve this besides creating rules for battling on IM. For example; during an FFA some of the older members metion innapropriate things to the younger members (no, I am not talking about myself ;o i am old enough) But there is too much talk about sex and swearing (mainly during FFA's) and that I find majorly wrong. Another example is where one member dislikes another to the extent of embarrasing them infront of other members and jeering at them during battles and FFA's.

Well, that is all that I can think of at this moment but if I notice anything else I will be sure to report back, since I think that the URPG needs to get a slightly better infrastructure.
Well, I am simply voicing my opinions and that are they.

-Berry
<Some of the spelling may be incorrect since the spellcheck is set to Dutch xD>

Oh, another thing.
I think that the URPG mods we have, some of them, don't care at all about the URPG and I think that we should cut them off and add some new ones who enjoy it.
(I did post that we need some new ones but didnt say why we needed to lose the old ones.)
Bw, I can give an example, but not here.

SiberianTiger
08-25-2008, 06:54 PM
Actually, ST, you're a bit off here.

The council is designed so that everyone has the same power. Harry is the head of the council, which means he is the representant of the council before the people.

Then there really was no point in Jack passing the torch to Hkim now was there?

On major decision taking, each council member has one vote. In the case of a tie, it would be up to Harry to decide wheter to approve or not a certain proposal. Yet if five council members are in favor, and only Harry is against, the majority would have the ultimate decision.

This is to prevent one person from having all the power, instead it being shared between a council consisting of members with different thoughts and ideals, in order to achieve an objective analysis.

In this case you are just flat out taking all the power from someone, I think it's absolutely great that Harry wants to include everybody in on the decision making, but not if that means he can't make an executive decision based on what he thinks is best for the URPG. Having a council for input and to put forth their own vote is fine, and I hope to death he would take that into consideration and allow them the trust to act as they see fit without the fearing of constantly getting overuled in turn; but again, to mandate that. No thanks. The very purpose of the leader is to make the major choices that affect the URPG, and don't get me wrong I think everybody should get to weigh in on it, but in the end the choice should still come down to the current leader.

But I stress the following: Harry is the head of the council, and thus he is in charge of it working well, and taking decisions in case of a tie.

The point I stress is: Jack was leader, has been leader, and passed that mantle down to Harry. And if having a council means that Harry has no real power then the entire point of passing down the mantle was moot, and you can't hardly say that he is still the leader simply because he owns the tiebreaker, that's laughable.

"Don't worry Harry, you'll get to play leader if everyone else under you fails to make the big decision."

Well isn't that kind.

That's my two cents, and who knows, I could be wrong in my assessment, I could be right. Either way, This idea hasn't even been put into action yet, so for the time being the point is moot.

@ Berry, we have good mods, Scott, Galleon, Mike, Emma, Chris or Jack for that matter. We may have some complaints in awhile, I certainly do, but that doesn't mean that aren't capable or don't care.

~Isaiah

Frozen_in_Time
08-25-2008, 07:11 PM
That's my two cents, and who knows, I could be wrong in my assessment, I could be right. Either way, This idea hasn't even been put into action yet, so for the time being the point is moot.

@ Berry, we have good mods, Scott, Galleon, Mike, Emma, Chris or Jack for that matter. We may have some complaints in awhile, I certainly do, but that doesn't mean that aren't capable or don't care.

~Isaiah

I realise that but there is no reason for a URPG official to say that they don;t care about the URPG and the forums. And that is no just a complaint it is how they feel.
And I said that we need to rethink over the mods that are inactive. And that we need more leaders (as in admins)
Uh, I am tired.

Dr Scott
08-25-2008, 07:32 PM
Most of the mods are active, just not where you see. I may not really battle in the URPG, but that doesn't mean I don't watch and listen to what happens. A lot happens with the URPG that people don't see.

And there is SO much more to being a URPG moderator than activity and passion. You have to be mature and be able to make unbiased decisions.

We also can't mess with the moderating staff due to Ryan's inactivity.

For instance, Galleon seems incredibly inactive but he's working on a new system for ... something. I forgot what Emma said.

Harry has the power, but everyone doesn't have to go through him. The big issues, such as the May thing, would be his to control (unless every mod goes against him, and if that happens he probably made the wrong decision). But with Jack we all felt like we had to go through him to do anything, whereas Harry has some leniency on that issue. Also, Harry doesn't have 'absolute' control, and the 'council' can chose a new leader if he goes down without having him give over the mantle.

As for voicing your opinions ... there's a wrong way and a right way. The right way would be talking to a few officials, get there support, and have them talk to the moderators. Think of the officials as representatives of sorts. The thing is, EVERYONE has an opinion about everything and everyone doesn't agree, so if we listened we hear whining either way.

Another point is that the people aren't always right and tend to follow 'cliques' and do what they think is 'cool' on a Pokemon forum, such as the whole Pidge issue.

The wrong way would be
A) Whining
B) Trolling, flaming, or taking it too far
Etc. Etc. It's not that you don't have a say in what happens, it's that everyone has a different say and we can't please everyone.

Also, I agree on the FFA thing, though problem being we can't really monitor AIM conversations. I'd say just block the people making the dumb comments, to be honest.

HKim
08-25-2008, 07:59 PM
It is clear that the council is a work in progress. None of it was clearly settled before the transfer of power. That's why we're discussing it now. Let everyone have a say and see what should be done with it.

The only change so far is that Jack gave me authority over the URPG. In turn, I have begun to ask for opinions from the moderators, officials, and members. This isn't a council yet, but it is a beginning of what I hope to be a change for the better in terms of leadership.

Unofficially, the moderators tend to focus over one section over the others. Emma, for instance, enjoys running the Story section and we all see her actively participating there. I want to continue encouraging the moderators in this matter. Decisions like regarding the Story Competition don't need to be debated by every URPG moderator. That can be left to Emma and Galleon. They know the section better than the rest of us. If anything happens, then the rest of us can step in. But I believe that, for the most part, moderators focusing on their sections to help it run smoothly should be a good thing.

The council should only be for major decisions and changes, such as grader pay. Changing how much a grader or ref is paid will drastically affect the URPG and thus needs to be discussed. Most of the time, this will be a thread in the Court Section so that members and officials can discuss it as well. In fact, I encourage people to post ideas and suggestions there. Because people brought up the need for ref testing, we are discussing adding more ref testers. Because people asked to change the Underground fossil rules, we are planning on implementing some of the suggestions discussed. This is a dialogue for every member of this URPG family to participate in. Major ideas should be discussed because, otherwise, we might miss out on a terrific suggestion or improvement.

As for leadership, I am going to reserve the right in regards to decisions. The council is important and I will abide by what they say in critical matters. But there will be times where I will set down my foot and disagree. Make no mistake, I enjoy listening to opinions and talking about ideas, but there is a time for everything, including a time to say "No".

Frozen_in_Time
08-25-2008, 08:12 PM
Okay, I am glad about that, but there is one other problem.
Discrimination.
I am tired of being told by people that they refuse to ref for me of test me or whatever. I don't like that officail(s) well, not ignore people, but tell them that they will not do it out of dislike.
Good night.

Haze
08-25-2008, 10:16 PM
@ Berry: They'd probably start reffing/being nice if you'd stop trying to get them in trouble for saying no :x

Scott, before all this stuff with Pidge, you had made a total of around ten posts in URPG since I joined. You can't call that active.

EDIT: I know I'm a nub so my opinion won't be counted for and this post most likely ignored :3

Frozen_in_Time
08-26-2008, 07:11 AM
@ Berry: They'd probably start reffing/being nice if you'd stop trying to get them in trouble for saying no :x

Scott, before all this stuff with Pidge, you had made a total of around ten posts in URPG since I joined. You can't call that active.

EDIT: I know I'm a nub so my opinion won't be counted for and this post most likely ignored :3

No, I haven't ever complained about that before and they were...iffy

Milotic Master1
08-26-2008, 02:11 PM
Most of the mods are active, just not where you see. I may not really battle in the URPG, but that doesn't mean I don't watch and listen to what happens. A lot happens with the URPG that people don't see.

And there is SO much more to being a URPG moderator than activity and passion. You have to be mature and be able to make unbiased decisions.

We also can't mess with the moderating staff due to Ryan's inactivity.

For instance, Galleon seems incredibly inactive but he's working on a new system for ... something. I forgot what Emma said.

Harry has the power, but everyone doesn't have to go through him. The big issues, such as the May thing, would be his to control (unless every mod goes against him, and if that happens he probably made the wrong decision). But with Jack we all felt like we had to go through him to do anything, whereas Harry has some leniency on that issue. Also, Harry doesn't have 'absolute' control, and the 'council' can chose a new leader if he goes down without having him give over the mantle.

As for voicing your opinions ... there's a wrong way and a right way. The right way would be talking to a few officials, get there support, and have them talk to the moderators. Think of the officials as representatives of sorts. The thing is, EVERYONE has an opinion about everything and everyone doesn't agree, so if we listened we hear whining either way.

Another point is that the people aren't always right and tend to follow 'cliques' and do what they think is 'cool' on a Pokemon forum, such as the whole Pidge issue.

The wrong way would be
A) Whining
B) Trolling, flaming, or taking it too far
Etc. Etc. It's not that you don't have a say in what happens, it's that everyone has a different say and we can't please everyone.

Also, I agree on the FFA thing, though problem being we can't really monitor AIM conversations. I'd say just block the people making the dumb comments, to be honest.

Oh, btw, this is your 12th post posted in URPG since January, Mr.Active. ^_^

You are in a vet clique D=. You also have let your emotions get in the way and whine, especially in that meeting =/. So much for maturety.

The only two mods that were truely active when I came back were Mikey and Raul, you guys were dead and decided to get active 'cause of Jack and whatnot.

Passion is actually the biggest of being an URPG Mod. You have to love the game in order to give it your all.

The entire Kawaii, Nya, =^_^= is pretty much people standing up for Pidge seeing as they were his friends. Its not some evil clique threatening the fabrication of pe2k as we know it.

Oh, weren't you not gonna bother with this thread, Scott? :O

flareon008
08-26-2008, 02:41 PM
Let's point something out.

As for leadership, I am going to reserve the right in regards to decisions. The council is important and I will abide by what they say in critical matters. But there will be times where I will set down my foot and disagree. Make no mistake, I enjoy listening to opinions and talking about ideas, but there is a time for everything, including a time to say "No".

Hkim doesn't have full control? Look, if he has the ability to override even the council, again you're actually nothing more than the "ADVICE COUNCIL!" We're just throwing in the name council because we can call it the Justice League. Otherwise in the end it's pointless. It's the same system with some stupid name. Oh hey, now I don't care about the council anymore. Go me.

We've always kept the leadership because it's worked. We're suppose to choose people who are level-headed, willing to take risks, and does nothing more than to benefit Ultra. The leader gets input from the support given by moderators. That's how the decisions should be made.

People should always be allowed to speak their opinions, in any means possible. It's hard-headed to believe a difference in opinion is nothing more than spam and trolling. We can't please everyone, but we can certainly listen to everyone.

Dap04
08-26-2008, 03:23 PM
I have been pretty much a silent observer the last week or so while trying to get my head around some of the things that have gone on the URPG. It doesn’t mean I am oblivious, stupid or that I don’t care- I care as much as anyone about this place and its' future. I prefer to speak when I am more informed on issues, and now seems to be a good time. I have heard things that have gone on that make me very disappointed with regards to events that have happened and situations which haven’t been dealt with properly. I hope this will be addressed within the next few weeks.

I agree with Berry that Mods are too eager to pull the panic trigger- this is a big mistake. However to say that it is just particular to this regime is incorrect since there were instances also where this was the case when I was here last. Harry did the correct thing in unlocking this thread so more opinions could be heard and it is a case too often, reading back through the threads, that something is locked when there is so much more to say or it is locked without the issue being resolved. If this thread had been locked permanently when Scott had acted then I wouldn’t even be typing this here now. The people need a voice and the trainer courts is the place to do it. However some of the trainer court cases have turned into a ‘let of your steam’ sort of place where after awhile it will gain a lock with nothing being done. I’m not however advocating full people power because there are instances where we can be carried away by our emotion or as Curtis said failing to see the bigger picture. The people can be wrong sometimes and it is up to the leader to make the correct decision- he has been put in place to make these decisions.

However I disagree with another of Berry’s point that we should ‘cut off’ mods and refs. We do not need more turmoil by continually chopping and changing as in the process we will end up alienating certain members- there are some good mods here and some that well…that need some fine tuning. But that doesn’t mean we should get rid of them, you give them the opportunity to grow and learn from their mistakes and hope they will be better for it the next time a situation arises. Only if a mod continues to act in an irresponsible manner, fails to do their duties on a continual basis or is inactive over a long period of time (NOT just a matter of weeks) then you consider your replacements. If they do need replacing then that will be dealt with at the time.

Also officials (or co-officials like they were called back then) need to be given more power- I have no idea what exactly is the point of an official if they have no say in matters. If it comes to a vote because there are mixed opinions, I believe officials should be part of the process too- why promote them if you don’t trust them? If you are promoting for the sake of promoting then maybe you should reconsider who you choose. The leader should have the final say but will obviously be affected if the majority of people vote against a proposal that he put forward. Harry will not force through something that everyone dislikes but he out of all mods remaining will be unbiased and as he said put his foot down if necessary.

Mods also you should communicate more with your members and not alienate them- if someone sends you a Pm, at the very least have the decency to reply. Also remember and value the position that you are in- it is a privilege to be where you are, it is not our privilege- don’t abuse it. This includes respect to members, especially those who are younger than you- calling them names and provoking them when you think it is jesting is breaching your responsibilities- I’m not saying not to have fun (far from it)- just know your boundaries.

As for conduct of behaviour of members towards others on messenger including sexual references- that is very hard to clamp down, especially on a forum of kids averaging 14 to 15 years old. As Scott said, block members if necessary but members should also have the responsibility to act fairly towards others, even if you think you can’t be caught because you’re on messenger and you are not talking face to face but hiding behind your computer- just remember your basics in terms of human respect.



The problem with the idea giving to Jack was he would just leave and come as he pleases, plus he let his biasness intrude in what is best in URPG =P.


During the time when I was here Jack in my opinion acted in an unbiased manner. There is no concrete evidence to my mind that suggests that he has done any differently now.

Haze
08-26-2008, 04:44 PM
As for voicing your opinions ... there's a wrong way and a right way. The right way would be talking to a few officials, get there support, and have them talk to the moderators. Think of the officials as representatives of sorts. The thing is, EVERYONE has an opinion about everything and everyone doesn't agree, so if we listened we hear whining either way.


I didn't notice this post before so I want to comment on parts of it to be ignored some more :D.

You basically said that normal members can't even state opinions to the mods. That really bugged me because its proving how biased some mods are. You've also implied that if you're not a mod or official, you're just not good enough to have opinions that matter.

Also with the Pidge thing, you said he was pretending to be nice to people, how do you know this? At least even if he was pretending, he was showing them kindness, something that many mods failed to show me when I joined. He was doing what the mods weren't by helping newer members.

Milotic Master1
08-26-2008, 05:21 PM
Dap, the evidence in is his actions. Including his silence in the second meetings, except "guys, about may...".

You haven't been around long enough to fully understand the problems as a hole. Jack had left a year ago, then decided to pop up and play god-mod without considering any of the other mods that were running the urpg (Raul and Mikey LOL).

Many of the officials have told me they really don't get a say. Which is unforchanant, because the officials are more involved in URPG than the actual mods, no offense to any of you guys but it is a game and many of you rarely play it, it matters.

I agree with Dap on the "panic attacks". I'm a perfect example of it. "OMG MASTER MILOTIC IS MILOTIC MASTER BACKWARDS BAN BAN BAN!" ._.

I've gotten an apoligy but its not the point, panic just causes more distress on a already rocky system.

The connection is just scrambled. Mods have forgotten how it is to be a member, and members don't understand how hard it is to be a mod. Mods don't know how to be members.

FireflyK
08-26-2008, 05:36 PM
The next, may not be as seriously taken, but quite a big issue for some. the problem is bullying and inappropriate behaviour. But the problem with this is that the culprits mind to keep from getting banned and only act "strangely" over IM.


There's little that can be done about this. A lot of people send porn, threats, or random attacks on AIM. However, we're forbidden to ban or infract for it. -shrug- That's not just URPG. That's forum policy, apparently. No mods can do anything about AIM behavior, no matter how inappropriate it is.

I actually have no idea how we could solve this besides creating rules for battling on IM. For example; during an FFA some of the older members metion innapropriate things to the younger members (no, I am not talking about myself ;o i am old enough) But there is too much talk about sex and swearing (mainly during FFA's) and that I find majorly wrong. Another example is where one member dislikes another to the extent of embarrasing them infront of other members and jeering at them during battles and FFA's.
As far as insults, well, arguments happen. Off-forum flaming is tough to police because logs are easily faked. Really, unless they're sending racial slurs/porn/something really disturbing, I don't even talk to people who are reported to me for AIM things, because what cna I do? Ask them not to do it again? That doesn't really get any result. Even if they are sending really awful messages, we're not allowed to interfere... And complaining gets you the angry or silent treatment, ala when Psychic was upset about people being jerks and posted about it, causing people to fuss at her. ^^; Really, the best thing to do is block them and don't tell anyone, because certain people will jump if you complain about AIM behavior.

Anyway. The URPG has run just fine in the past. If Jack thinks HKim can run it, maybe everyone should relax, settle down for a month, and let him do his job. If there are serious problems, the council/whatever could be discussed again.... But shouldn't he get a chance to prove he can do a good job before people start panicking over "BUT WHAT IF"s? Relax. Let him run the URPG. If a big issue comes up, THEN start worrying about what should be done. ^^; Give him the benefit of the doubt!

Milotic Master1
08-26-2008, 06:32 PM
This really doesn't have much to do about if harry can or cannot do his job. We all think harry is capable of this, we are here to be able to express our opinion on URPG Issues. You've said it yourself, Carly, URPG was not "fine" before. This is a place to discuss about the council and the errors of past leadership. You believe in free speech, so we're simply just taking advantage. Scott also locked this thread thinking it was spam, he'd be a fool not to expect no retaliation from other members in his decision to do so.

Dap04
08-26-2008, 07:11 PM
Dap, the evidence in is his actions. Including his silence in the second meetings, except "guys, about may...".

You haven't been around long enough to fully understand the problems as a hole. Jack had left a year ago, then decided to pop up and play god-mod without considering any of the other mods that were running the urpg (Raul and Mikey LOL).

Many of the officials have told me they really don't get a say. Which is unforchanant, because the officials are more involved in URPG than the actual mods, no offense to any of you guys but it is a game and many of you rarely play it, it matters.

I agree with Dap on the "panic attacks". I'm a perfect example of it. "OMG MASTER MILOTIC IS MILOTIC MASTER BACKWARDS BAN BAN BAN!" ._.

I've gotten an apoligy but its not the point, panic just causes more distress on a already rocky system.

The connection is just scrambled. Mods have forgotten how it is to be a member, and members don't understand how hard it is to be a mod. Mods don't know how to be members.

You're correct- I haven't been here long enough to understand the Jack situation- I've now heard both sides of the story but I suppose I would have had to be here to appreciate it properly- but nothing is concrete as I said. I can only defend him from my experiences with him.

Dr Scott
08-26-2008, 07:26 PM
I locked it because no one was talking and it was on the cusp of being flaming. I stand by my decision as a moderator, it wasn't like it was this active before. And I don't think that's the point anyways, the thread is unlocked, so what's your beef? If I went and re-locked it then I could see your right to complain, but not now.

First off, you said that you would have done the same thing in my position. You have to understand that with everything happening we are a little bit easy to pull the trigger in some cases, we do make mistakes, but the mistakes are made for the good of the forum. If you expect us to be perfect then you're very ignorant, and so you should cut us some slack when we do make mistakes.

As to what Dap said, it also goes the other way around. Mods catch a lot of flak, it's hard for the position to be at all fun when all we hear is criticism. People are downright rude to mods, we're like celebrities, every little thing we do or say is magnified and stretched out of proportion. It would do well for the regular members to have show some respect if they want some in return.

It seems that people expect us to take what they say and listen to them when all we do is having people insulting us. Do you honestly think I want to listen to anyone when all I hear is 'oh, Scott did this!' If you want to talk to me politely then I will listen, no problem.

The connection is just scrambled. Mods have forgotten how it is to be a member, and members don't understand how hard it is to be a mod. Mods don't know how to be members..

Makes sense. Though it's hard to be a member when members are allowed to be bias when we are not. It's hard to be a regular member once you become a mod, because everyone's opinions of you change too.

I've been in the URPG since JUNIOR HIGH. Next to AKdude I'm the oldest active member. If we want to point inactivity fingers you were gone for quite a while. Does that mean you don't love the place? If that doesn't show passion I don't know what does. And no, I don't post around in the URPG itself, but I still look at things and post in the mod boards. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Look at Jack, he wasn't extremely active all the time and he didn't really URPG and he was still a good mod.

It's hard to talk to officials since we don't really have a good way. I was looking for one for a day or two to talk with, and I couldn't find any of them.

Crazy231: Untrue. My point is that it's hard for moderators to listen to each and every person. Everyone has an opinion, but if we talked to everyone we'd hear five hundred different things (EDIT: Things = Different opinions). And keep in mind that we do have lives to live. My point was that if there was a pressing issue that had a lot of support then you're free to have an official tell it for you, instead of having five hundred people IMing people about it. And for mass opinions we have threads, like this one. If I didn't care or if I was biased I wouldn't be answering you.

And my IM is open to any friendly discussions or chats. Relationships go both ways, you must give to get. Give respect, get respect. Send IMs, get IMs. I'm not going to promise that I can stay on forever, I have things to do, but when I have time I will listen.

And saying 'all mods are rude' is odd because I've honestly never even heard of you, and I'm sure you haven't been thinking of me with the best regards. Again, be nice and we will be nice in return. We get judged, but how many people can actually say they know us or have even tried to?

MM: How am I in the 'vet clique'? I talk to you, don't I? And do I go around insulting you or anything? No, I listened to your problems and listened to you about the May thing without narry a 'U R REGULAR MEMBER OMG ME NO LITEN!'

Milotic Master1
08-26-2008, 08:15 PM
I'm sorry for making you go emo, sheesh. Don't let your emotions get in the way, :P.

First off: You locked it because you couldn't back yourself up, and instead fo actually going back you just lock it because you run away from your own problems. HKim stopped you and openned the thread, I post back and look what happens. You flip out like some emo without a razor blade. This is URPG Modship at its finest!

In your position I would of never let Jack get away with lettin lettin may keep her damn lucario in the first place. She would of went kaploop. Of course I would of done the simular thing, get May banned, even told Jack. Difference between a vendeta and doing what's right.

Next off, you aren't a member. You will never be a member, you will never ever be accepted by the URPG community for you repeated actions. Accept that. Your a mod, we aren't gonna give you frigin candy and wipe your butt like some baby. Learn to handle your buisness instead of flippin out. Your position affects the game we play, your negligence of the game also affects the game as well, I wouldn't expect you to suddenly start URPGing again, but you need to understand most of the officials know more about the URPG than you do, that's a shame. They don't go ballistic about "IMMA MOD U DUN UNDERSTAND MEEEE ;_;" either.

I, personally, don't have a beef with you buddy to buddy wise but when you put your mod on, bleh. Half the time you are locking and deny and the other half your flipping out ._. Your perception of this is entirely wrong.

You talked to me twice, once about May the other about hurting Emma's feelings. That was all strictly buisness, we don't chat usually, besides I'm on your trouble maker list, your on my "mod that needs a reality check" list. See how that works out? ^_^

So now I'm done. Flare can go pick off the little pieces of respect and dignity you have now.

Galleon
08-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Show a little respect, please. Not because we're Mods, but because we are people, just like you. If you wish to make a point about the URPG Council specifically, then do so. Otherwise, please stop throwing insults and accusations around, because this isn't the place for that, and you should know better, because as it has been mentioned, you folks aren't new around here. If you have something else bothering you, make your case in the Court section, as Harry has already said several times.

DaRkUmBrEoN
08-26-2008, 10:00 PM
Also with the Pidge thing, you said he was pretending to be nice to people, how do you know this? At least even if he was pretending, he was showing them kindness, something that many mods failed to show me when I joined. He was doing what the mods weren't by helping newer members.Pidg was banned for something outside the URPG. No need to bring that in here. We didn't do anything, so we can't help just like you can't get him unbanned by whining or using him as a poor example of how the URPG deals with people.

I agree with Dap on the "panic attacks". I'm a perfect example of it. "OMG MASTER MILOTIC IS MILOTIC MASTER BACKWARDS BAN BAN BAN!" ._.

I've gotten an apoligy but its not the point, panic just causes more distress on a already rocky system.
Fail example leads to fail argument. That whole situation was in the Other: Chat board. You got forum banned, therefor URPG banned. Don't go twisting facts the other way around, MM.

There's little that can be done about this. A lot of people send porn, threats, or random attacks on AIM. However, we're forbidden to ban or infract for it. -shrug- That's not just URPG. That's forum policy, apparently. No mods can do anything about AIM behavior, no matter how inappropriate it is.
Oh, but we can. Thanks to Ryan, we have precedent for punishing what happens on AIM. Thing is, like you said, it's really hard to prove, but we can hand out bans. Oh, and might I remind everyone that the URPG is mainly done on AIM, so anyone who thinks they're scotch free on there, think again ^^.

Oh, and MM. We didn't let Jack get away with letting May keep Lucario. He punished her before we got there. And since the punishment was already given, we couldn't change anything. So it's not letting Jack get away with anything, it's called us having a life and putting the matter to rest.

-]DU[-

HKim
08-27-2008, 01:18 AM
We need to be able to hold this discussion without anger.

I am tired of all this finger pointing. We end up discussing trivial matters that dissolve into flame wars. This is not what this thread is for.

Yes, there are still a lot of feelings present. A lot of anger left unspoken. A lot of pain left untold. Yes, it is a problem. And yes, it needs to be addressed. But, not in ways that will bring about more anger and more tears. No! That will only lead us down a spiral of hate and disgust. That isn't what we want. That isn't what we need.

We need to remember that this is a family. We have fun together, we enjoy battling each other! I may lose every battle I fight and I still enjoy it! Why? Because I am around people that I care about. People that I love to talk with, that I love to get to know. The other day I talked with Isaiah and found out how smart he really is and how knowledgeable he can be. I remember those tough matches against Dap and now he's back with us and I am happy for him and us. I see many of the vets return to say hi, and share the stories of the old days with us. I see new ideas and new members join our growing family. And I see happiness and hope and content. Why do I see it? Because it's there! It has always been there!

We are a family. I don't care if you're a moderator, an official, a ref, a grader, a member, a gym leader, whatever! The differences don't matter! We're all a family. We all work with each other to make this place better and have fun.

That's the important thing. That's why we're here, in this discussion. Because we believe in the future of the family.

Fever
08-27-2008, 09:49 AM
We need to be able to hold this discussion without anger.

I am tired of all this finger pointing. We end up discussing trivial matters that dissolve into flame wars. This is not what this thread is for.

Yes, there are still a lot of feelings present. A lot of anger left unspoken. A lot of pain left untold. Yes, it is a problem. And yes, it needs to be addressed. But, not in ways that will bring about more anger and more tears. No! That will only lead us down a spiral of hate and disgust. That isn't what we want. That isn't what we need.

We need to remember that this is a family. We have fun together, we enjoy battling each other! I may lose every battle I fight and I still enjoy it! Why? Because I am around people that I care about. People that I love to talk with, that I love to get to know. The other day I talked with Isaiah and found out how smart he really is and how knowledgeable he can be. I remember those tough matches against Dap and now he's back with us and I am happy for him and us. I see many of the vets return to say hi, and share the stories of the old days with us. I see new ideas and new members join our growing family. And I see happiness and hope and content. Why do I see it? Because it's there! It has always been there!

We are a family. I don't care if you're a moderator, an official, a ref, a grader, a member, a gym leader, whatever! The differences don't matter! We're all a family. We all work with each other to make this place better and have fun.

That's the important thing. That's why we're here, in this discussion. Because we believe in the future of the family.

Omigod, I think I'm going to cry. =O

Totally agree with what Harry said, and I'd just like to say what I was thinking before. I know that some of my 'family' won't be listening, but...tough. I have a big signature and I'm writing all this in hot pink, so don't tell me you didn't see it, kkai? =P

Look, if some of you guys are going to act like this now, I dread to think what you'll be like on the Council. I would have thought that if you want a chance of staying on board the Council or Justice League (or whatever the heck it's called now), you'd be trying to do what you're meant to do - stay calm and mature. Go read the 'If' poem or something, I dunno. Just stop ranting at each other.

And we have a newsletter now. Maybe you could write to it. Calmly. Maybe you could submit an appeal for Pidge or more admins or new wallpaper or whatever you want. Just chill. URPG is not your life, but it could well be your death if you get yourself worked up like this.

Starkipraggy
08-28-2008, 07:11 AM
I have a few things to say about Scott myself, but here's the burning question:

Would this Council be like the Security Council in the UN? I mean like, Only one guy has the absolute veto power (Harry duh) and then you guys pass resolutions on the big matters, except that obviously it would be much easier to enforce whatever resolutions come up.

Humph, weird analogy, but makes it slightly easier to understand.

And Harry is beginning to sound like a politician. Like some revolutionary leader trying to rally his troops, if you want to go for that extreme. @_@

Look, if some of you guys are going to act like this now, I dread to think what you'll be like on the Council. I would have thought that if you want a chance of staying on board the Council or Justice League (or whatever the heck it's called now), you'd be trying to do what you're meant to do - stay calm and mature. Go read the 'If' poem or something, I dunno. Just stop ranting at each other.

Too true. However, I have faith that with people like DU and Galleon in, the Council will not erupt into massive flame wars at meetings.

RPGBoss
08-29-2008, 12:05 AM
If we're gonna have a council I think we should make it like in U.S government system. Harry would be the President and the rest of us Vets & Mods would be the Congress Members.
So the way it works is Harry makes the decisions but the rest of us process and by matter of votes & diplomatic disscussions end up approving them or sending them to the thrash bin or perhaps putting them on hold or appeal process.

Well..you should talk to May Norman as well..She seems fairly good when it comes to handling this kind of stuff.

Soda
08-29-2008, 12:14 AM
If we're gonna have a council I think we should make it like in U.S government system. Harry would be the President and the rest of us Vets & Mods would be the Congress Members.
So the way it works is Harry makes the decisions but the rest of us process and by matter of votes & diplomatic disscussions end up approving them or sending them to the thrash bin or perhaps putting them on hold or appeal process.

Well..you should talk to May Norman as well..She seems fairly good when it comes to handling this kind of stuff.

Just because you're a vet doesn't mean you're any better than any new member, it depends on the person, vets from '04 can come back and suck terribly, tbh. Don't worry, not talking about you or Dap or any other returning peeps. People from '06/07 know what's best for the URPG just like the Vets do.

Lolmay, is her ban done yet. =(

RPGBoss
08-29-2008, 12:22 AM
I agree w/ what your saying Sota ...the best suitable ppl will be chosent to be representatives of the Council..which in most cases are either the Mods(they have proven to posses leadership and order)or the Vets ( who have a lot of experience in the URPG) and some cases other members might get chosen because they also possess leadership qualities or Diplomacy skills (as in May)

Anyways this is only my opinion as a Former ember of my school's Student council and that was the way we handled things over there.. the last decision as to the way the Council will be run will be made by Harry or Flare..perhaps the URPG Head Mike..

SiberianTiger
08-29-2008, 12:45 AM
Well..you should talk to May Norman as well..She seems fairly good when it comes to handling this kind of stuff.

No offence to either person involved, but I actually laughed in real life.

~Isaiah

RPGBoss
08-29-2008, 12:49 AM
Haha and why did u Laugh u cocky Siberian tiger??? If you dont think a woman can handle this matters as much as a guy then your wrong..believe it or not May is a very smart girl when she needs to be ...I know that a lot of times she doesnt behave like it or does stuff that makes u think otherwise...but when it comes to Business matters she is really capable..:smile:

Magare
08-29-2008, 12:52 AM
Wow, this whole thread is so full of drama its intoxicating.

Quite frankly, I dont give a damn what this whole thread is about (yes, I did read it, no I didnt care enough to find out the details) but it doesnt really matter for the things I want to type.

First of all, for those saying "every single member of URPG should have a vote in the decisions regarding URPG". To be direct, no, you shouldnt.
The council that happened here is there for a reason. Some of them you like, some of them you dont as was evident in the other thread, and that is a good thing. It means the council will have some unpopular opinions heard.

That also means that while your every whim wont be fulfilled, generally the decisions they make will be the right ones.

And if you really have something that the council completely missed you always have the court to discuss it there

As far as Scott and his non posting goes. If he says he's doing his job as a mod without you noticing. I DO believe him. No, i'm not his friend, I actually didnt even have a proper chat with him.... ever.
However what I do know, is that I was a URPG mod a long time ago as well. I also made posts.... well, almost never to be honest, which is quite obvious by my post count and the day I joined. But what I did receive was over 30 mails each day JUST FROM THE URPG part of the forum, with complaints on certain users and their posts. And regularly had problems pmed in double digits as well. So yes, if Scott was sorting that out... He was more then active.

Now, those of you bashing Jack for his decisions. For the sake of an argument lets say he was wrong at whatever you're accusing him off. Thats the man who held this game alive for you all. Someone go and check how many times he battled in the last.... 3 years? I'm willing to bet ALL of you in this thread have as many battles in 1 week (excluding those that fight on the forums. I bow to you, I never had the patience). So he didnt keep all of this alive for his perverse pleasure of watching underage teenagers fight it out on the forums, he kept it alive for the community. Respect that damn it.
And yes, as a character witness if you will, Jack has done his job as good as anyone could. And if he made an error of judgment in some decision... TOUGH. He's human, he makes mistakes. I'm quite sure you all made more.

I have a few more things to say, but its 3 am here and my grammar is already bad, no need to make things worse by my lack of sleep. I'll continue tomorrow.

P.S. Scott, no more beheading around :sad:?

P.P.S. Milotic Master1, I respect that you want your opinion heard, but sending low blows at everyone who disagrees with you is not a good way to win an argument. Everyone has been remarkably polite in their replies to you, please refrain yourself from typing so aggressively if we ever happen to discuss something (and I have a feeling we will do so already here) because I'm not a nice guy and I will not sugarcoat my words.

But really, take a big chill pill, you need it

SiberianTiger
08-29-2008, 12:58 AM
Haha and why did u Laugh u cocky Siberian tiger??? If you dont think a woman can handle this matters as much as a guy then your wrong..believe it or not May is a very smart girl when she needs to be ...I know that a lot of times she doesnt behave like it or does stuff that makes u think otherwise...but when it comes to Business matters she is really capable..:smile:

I laughed because I have spent quite a bit of time around May, more than you know in fact. And you have quite literally, zero idea what I think of her.

On Topic: Why doesn't everybody just wait until more revealing details are hammered out? Might save some trouble.

~Isaiah

RPGBoss
08-29-2008, 01:05 AM
I laughed because I have spent quite a bit of time around May, more than you know in fact. And you have quite literally, zero idea what I think of her.

On Topic: Why doesn't everybody just wait until more revealing details are hammered out? Might save some trouble.

~Isaiah

Damn now im getting confused because i talk to May on AIM all the time and she's always respecful and intellectual...But your right I havent been long enough to know what she is really like in the forum..

Also getting on Topic...I didnt realize all the critics about Harry or stuff around in this post from MM or other members...WoW...all the time I've known Harry I've never seen anything unjust coming from him.. and Magare is right No more beheading King...lmao..:biggrin:

Soda
08-29-2008, 01:31 AM
First of all, for those saying "every single member of URPG should have a vote in the decisions regarding URPG". To be direct, no, you shouldnt.


Personally, I will never believe this, I think I should get more of a say of what happens in the URPG than what banners are put in the rules thread and who gets a free legend. We don't get a choice who deserves to become officials or anything, though I am happy with who did become them, I didn't get a say. Or who became the new leader, I do think Jack knows what's best, though, Hkim was a good choice. I don't really care who accepts me at the Pokemart and Daycare and approves my trades. But why can't URPG be a somewhat Democracy...I know you probably don't think I deserve a say, but I think I do.

OHNO I WENT AGAINST A 'VET' lol

flareon008
08-29-2008, 04:37 AM
Stuff stuff stuff..

And I'm asleep. Pardon, I guess I couldn't bother to read your post.


:rolleyes:

Lets sum things up for you. Shall we?

Leader + Council = Pointless
Lep's decisions + May = Terrible

I think I fell asleep before you made any mention to Scott's behavior as a mod. Did I miss that?

--

Sota, Ultra has always been monarchy, but has always had some sense of Democracy. Everyone should be able to speak their opinions, regardless of their 'power level'.

RPGBoss, the USA's government makes sense, but just not that well for Ultra. The problem is the when congress passes a bill, the president has the option of veto power. However, if the president veto's, congress can still pass the law. This happens over many months, where opinions and new facts come into play. Hkim could be shot down easily within a day.

Magare
08-29-2008, 08:27 AM
And I'm asleep. Pardon, I guess I couldn't bother to read your post.


You know, I did say I read everything, I just pointed out my post wasnt here regarding the topic on hand, but more because of the total disrespect people seem to have to each other on these boards. We all used to be friends here, even the "troublemakers" (what was his name again, Raik? something like that) held more respect to others then what I read here.


Lets sum things up for you. Shall we?

Leader + Council = Pointless
Lep's decisions + May = Terrible


About Leps decisions, I dont want to comment. Because I dont know. There seem to be far many unspoken variables in the whole story and I just dont want to be a part of it.

However, Leader+Council being pointless? Far from it. The leader of the URPG is someone we all trust. I believe (if things didnt change in my absence) that everyone trusts Harry to do his job? Now, even though he is the leader, he still has the council to discuss decisions with him. As he said, as a leader there will be a time for him to say no, but obviously, he wants the decisions to be made as a general consensus. So why is there a problem in one person having the final word? Especially when some things will not be so one sided that everyone can agree?


I think I fell asleep before you made any mention to Scott's behavior as a mod. Did I miss that?


Obviously


OHNO I WENT AGAINST A 'VET' lol


All this vet, oldie, meh, dont worry, feel free to speak against me whenever you feel like it :biggrin:

Maybe I should elaborate what I said. I didnt mean you (or me for that matter, old member or not, I am only a member, and not a part of the council) should have the right to force some changes only because we feel like it.

Silly example now, maybe my memory is flawed, but I believe FFA battles were my invention. When I first did it, we had way too many people who wanted a fight online, and only me and one more ref online. So I tried something different and people loved it. My mistake however, was that I gave out cash for that as if it was a regular fight instead of just making it a fun fight. The cash I gave out was far less then what is earned now in a free for all, but it was still not my job to do. I got a slap on the wrist, and rightfully so.
Now, the thing I wanted to say. We started a court thread about it. Since so many people wanted FFA battles to continue, after a long discussion Jack agreed to let some of the more experienced refs continue doing them. Even though he disagreed with FFA battles at that time.
Instead of doing it properly in the court part of the forums, I could have also bitched around and demanded FFA battles to be returned I guess.

The point of the matter is. We all make mistakes. But there is a proper way of doing things and then there's name calling and pointing fingers.

Edit: Actually, kinda like the petition Marth did regarding the bans of certain URPG members? I've seen no hostility in that thread, and if I got it right it got the job done. So why is there a need for hostility here?

As you said, URPG could function like a government. You have the corrupt politicians :razz: (council) and you have the ordinary people. If 10 people stand in front of the parliament yell some insults, throw some eggs, and demand their voices be heard.... do you think it will be?
Or they could make a petition, see how many people actually support their cause and then politely present it to the ruling council so that they may reconsider their previous decision. And if they still refuse your point of view, have faith that they have a reason for it. No one really has a reason to be corrupt in this game

Starkipraggy
08-29-2008, 12:52 PM
No one really has a reason to be corrupt in this game
ORLY? There was a recent case of bribery in an auction. Even in commercialised MMORPGs, people still try all sorts of ways to find loopholes in the system just to get a leg up on other people and this can happen in games with no PvP (or at least direct PvP, like MapleStory). Why would this be any different in URPG (which has RPG in its name)? There's always the black sheep that want to get things the easy way. :/ I do agree with you on everything else, just that I'd rather demand an explanation for the rejection of a petition rather than let it slide. People love reasons. They don't get a satisfactory one, they'll riot.

And I love how my post was freaking ignored when the person who asked whether the system could be like the US Congress posted right below me. @_@

koolcurtis
08-29-2008, 07:56 PM
wow, before i posted, nobody dared to question the new council idea, but now there's a big debate. I feel special that people still listen to me :biggrin:

flareon008
09-05-2008, 01:52 AM
About Leps decisions, I dont want to comment. Because I dont know. There seem to be far many unspoken variables in the whole story and I just dont want to be a part of it.

Well done.


However, Leader+Council being pointless? Far from it. The leader of the URPG is someone we all trust. I believe (if things didnt change in my absence) that everyone trusts Harry to do his job? Now, even though he is the leader, he still has the council to discuss decisions with him. As he said, as a leader there will be a time for him to say no, but obviously, he wants the decisions to be made as a general consensus. So why is there a problem in one person having the final word? Especially when some things will not be so one sided that everyone can agree?


I think the thing that bothers me with the 'council' here, is the fact we need to give the mod's some sort of title before they'll act in some role of leadership when the leader is gone. To that, Hkim has the reserved right to say no to any actions given by the council. So again, they're acting as nothing more than advice givers - with a special title. Hooray?


You know, I did say I read everything, I just pointed out my post wasnt here regarding the topic on hand, but more because of the total disrespect people seem to have to each other on these boards. We all used to be friends here, even the "troublemakers" (what was his name again, Raik? something like that) held more respect to others then what I read here.

I can really only speak for my actions. My posts were towards Scott because he is the person with power. There was an abuse with that power which cannot be allowed. If the general public lacks faith in someone of that position - to that even his own 'co-workers' have issues with his actions - why is it being allowed to happen?

Look, my comments have been frowned upon for my verbal assault - not my reasoning. I'm not going to sugar-coat my words for someone who should already be level-headed and emotionally balanced. Mods: You enforce the law, you're not above it.

RPGBoss
09-06-2008, 02:33 PM
And I'm asleep. Pardon, I guess I couldn't bother to read your post.


:rolleyes:

Lets sum things up for you. Shall we?

Leader + Council = Pointless
Lep's decisions + May = Terrible



RPGBoss, the USA's government makes sense, but just not that well for Ultra. The problem is the when congress passes a bill, the president has the option of veto power. However, if the president veto's, congress can still pass the law. This happens over many months, where opinions and new facts come into play. Hkim could be shot down easily within a day.


Well you know what they say Flare two ppl can think better than one..so if the Council Congress decides to pass an URPG Law then so be it...lol...although The Council Congress needs to Give Harry almighty power since he is our new URPG Leader after all...and all his posts are of a great Leader so far.

And May I ask why do u think Lep's and May's decisions aret terrible..? Im sorry I dont mean no disrespect Flare.

Trainer17
09-06-2008, 02:36 PM
Well you know what they say Flare two ppl can think better than one..so if the Council Congress decides to pass an URPG Law then so be it...lol...although The Council Congress needs to Give Harry almighty power since he is our new URPG Leader after all...and all his posts are of a great Leader so far.

And May I ask why do u think Lep's and May's decisions aret terrible..? Im sorry I dont mean no disrespect Flare.

It's said as Two Heads are better than One:oops:
Seeing from Flare's point, he says it ain't applicable for the URPGr anything along those lines.

flareon008
09-09-2008, 04:57 AM
Well you know what they say Flare two ppl can think better than one..so if the Council Congress decides to pass an URPG Law then so be it...lol...although The Council Congress needs to Give Harry almighty power since he is our new URPG Leader after all...and all his posts are of a great Leader so far.
Answer:

I think the thing that bothers me with the 'council' here, is the fact we need to give the mod's some sort of title before they'll act in some role of leadership when the leader is gone. To that, Hkim has the reserved right to say no to any actions given by the council. So again, they're acting as nothing more than advice givers - with a special title. Hooray?


And May I ask why do u think Lep's and May's decisions aret terrible..? Im sorry I dont mean no disrespect Flare.

Not a disrespectful at all. I actually encourage it.
To make it short, so we don't move too far off topic. My problem was during the meeting of the minds (the moderators). Lep took 30 minutes before he agreed on Hkim becoming leader. Then when he finally comes back, he was more interested in May's ban than anything else. The priorities were VERY wrong in my belief.

Loyal Arcanine
09-09-2008, 11:16 PM
HKim does not have the veto right Jack had, and rightly so because it was a bunch of bullship. If the mods agree on something and HKim doesn't, then he'll just have to deal with it.

Dap04
09-10-2008, 12:56 AM
HKim does not have the veto right Jack had, and rightly so because it was a bunch of bullship. If the mods agree on something and HKim doesn't, then he'll just have to deal with it.

He won't if he totally disagrees with it. He still holds the final decision as leader.



As for leadership, I am going to reserve the right in regards to decisions. The council is important and I will abide by what they say in critical matters. But there will be times where I will set down my foot and disagree. Make no mistake, I enjoy listening to opinions and talking about ideas, but there is a time for everything, including a time to say "No".

flareon008
09-10-2008, 02:29 AM
HKim does not have the veto right Jack had, and rightly so because it was a bunch of bullship. If the mods agree on something and HKim doesn't, then he'll just have to deal with it.

Glad to see you have Hkim's back 100%. Oh is there a knife involved too?! Sweet.

Dr Scott
09-10-2008, 02:52 PM
Please keep on topic and do not flame, Flareon008.

And no Dap, Mike is correct. If the council is torn between two different things then yes, Harry has the last say, but if it's something that the council all agrees upon but him there's nothing he can do.

One person should not have all that power because people do make mistakes and there needs to be checks and balances.

Dap04
09-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Please keep on topic and do not flame, Flareon008.

And no Dap, Mike is correct. If the council is torn between two different things then yes, Harry has the last say, but if it's something that the council all agrees upon but him there's nothing he can do.

One person should not have all that power because people do make mistakes and there needs to be checks and balances.

All agree's on then yes okay. But Harry said that if one agrees with him, then he can veto your majority decision.

flareon008
09-10-2008, 09:56 PM
I'm not going to reply here, I'm not going to lock it (even though I stand by it), etc.

Glad to see that's working out well TheScottMan. Funny how you said nothing to my post to Magare, yet you jump right on in when it's to LA. Well done big man.


Let's re-quote plus tassels!:
But there will be times where I will set down my foot and disagree. Make no mistake, I enjoy listening to opinions and talking about ideas, but there is a time for everything, including a time to say "No".

There's reasons why we have logical people in the position of leadership. It's so we don't have poor choices being made. With Lep gone the 5 heads couldn't even make one decision. Brilliant. It's expected to believe there's checks and balances now that there's a title for you lot? Filibuster away!

To point out, notice none of the mods were chosen to be the next new leader? Some official skipped a step and went to the leadership. Why would that be? I wonder...

Loyal Arcanine
09-10-2008, 10:01 PM
To point out, notice none of the mods were chosen to be the next new leader? Some official skipped a step and went to the leadership. Why would that be? I wonder...
I firmly believe I, and certain other moderators, have much more right to lead the URPG than HKim, who was a very inactive official until recently, whereas we have really done a lot over the last few years for the URPG, whether you agree on our way of decision making or not. But apparently this is what Jack wanted and all I can say is that even his last decision lacks vision and judgement.

Milotic Master1
09-10-2008, 10:35 PM
I firmly believe I, and certain other moderators, have much more right to lead the URPG than HKim, who was a very inactive official until recently, whereas we have really done a lot over the last few years for the URPG, whether you agree on our way of decision making or not. But apparently this is what Jack wanted and all I can say is that even his last decision lacks vision and judgement.

Oh yeah, because you mods have done such a good job! Bribery, cheating, and a certain Mikey giving Husnain official out of spite, and this isn't a lie. Emma told me herself.

You complain about HKims activity. Galleon was dead for how long? Scott was dead for how long? DU was gone for how long? While them a certain Arcanine and a certain Alakazam decided to have an ego war, that's really good leadership. You might think you guys were uber good for the job, but apparently the hole URPG thought otherwise.

I saw no flaming from Flareon, Scott. But I did see someone posting when they said they wouldn't. Flareon, and his methods, might not be the hugs and kisses approach, but it still doesn't overide the fact that he's right about plenty of things. All I've seen is you avoid the arguements and call him a flamer, no actual debate in the matter. If it wasn't for harry you'd probably lock this thread, obviously the opinions of everyone that isn't a mod is "spam".

I'd like to state harry isn't jack. I don't think he'd abuse the veto power, he is the leader, he deserves the right. A power slip would cause conflict and people would leave in flocks, if I didn't take my break from URPG I'd have left by now too. This is so repetitive, harry is the leader, he calls the big shots in the end. If you mods have a problem with it, then you'll "just have to deal with it".

EmBreon
09-10-2008, 11:50 PM
Oh yeah, because you mods have done such a good job! Bribery, cheating, and a certain Mikey giving Husnain official out of spite, and this isn't a lie. Emma told me herself.

Either you misunderstood me, or your view is incredibly misguided. Husnain was just as deserving as the others, if not more.

It seems the seldom few posting here are more interested in pointing out flaws than even trying to consider anything else. You're debating about the potential of Harry vetoing an agreed decision made by the other moderators. He is a wise and just man, I highly doubt he would override something that was appropriately decided, and vise versa.

This thread has gone way past it's purpose and on to a ranting pit.


I expect to be told how much I fail as well now that I've posted here.

EDIT: Actually, I am going to lock this. It's been given a second chance. People have had the option to civilly discuss their opinions, and all have lead down the same road of arguing and showcasing the other's wrongdoings. If you'd like to unlock this yet again Harry, then so be it.