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Pokémon Breeder Shane
09-28-2008, 04:32 AM
Ok... IDC if this gets locked i just need a quick answer to it... Im breeding a Hariyama that will be very...very...very....very... important to my current team im working on... I will hav everything below.... all i need is a desission of whether I should make it adamant for more power... or jolly to boost its speed to ensure at least one hit... so without further ado here he is:
Hariyama @ Flame Orb
?????/Guts
EVs: 252 HP/112 Sp. Def/ 112 Def/24 Atk
Facade
Bullet Punch
Fake Out
Close Combat/Reversal/Force Palm/Seismic Toss/Brine

I also need a last move... preferably a STAB... And I know type coverage is junk... its for quick hits... but anywho... If i chose CC id loose def... which is valuable on him... reversal is useful... since its more powerful as hariyamas burn lowers its health... then theres force palm... which can paralyze... that could be useful... and lastly SToss... which is a guaranteed 100 damage.... or theres brine... not a STAB... but adds abit more type coverage... so people help me? lol

Vlad The Impaler
09-28-2008, 07:44 AM
Its okay, but DON'T use Flame Orb. Use Toxic Orb. Flame orb lowers your attack. Personally, I'd use Jolly.

Viva la Gofre
09-28-2008, 08:56 AM
Its okay, but DON'T use Flame Orb. Use Toxic Orb. Flame orb lowers your attack. Personally, I'd use Jolly.
Guts discounts the reduction burn causes to attack, but toxic orb is still a better choice. Toxic orb's initial damage is minimal, so allows you to last far longer so long as you switch. It doesnt need to be that often, you only need to switch once evey 3 turns and you'll last more turns than flame orb.

However, a tank set and orb set are not mixed well. You can bring up your own defences all you like, but at the end of the day you're just helping the opponent hurt you with no ability to recover whatsoever. A pokemon like Hariyama does not do this set well at all, being too slow to sweep but having his item taken so he cannot scarf. Your best bet is to run a scarf set and throw him in the path of an opponent's status move.

Hariyama is most effective as a fully fledged tank, as below:

Hariyama @Leftovers
Impish
76HP/180Att/252Def
Knock Off
Force Palm/Brick Break
Ice Punch
Whirlwind

Smogon recommend CC for STAB which in my opinion is stupid, since it's very difficult to be a physical tank when lowering your own Defence. However if you dont mind doing so, Close Combat could be your STAB, or if you have access to platinum Hariyama can now learn superpower.

That's my personal recommendation, Hariyama just isnt a poke who can pull off a facade set, since bulk and self-destruction don't go together. If you wanna use a facade user, go with the king: Heracross.

Finally, should you continue to use this set, go with the following:

Hariyama@Toxic Orb
Adamant/Guts
252Att/88Def/168Spd
Facade
Superpower
Payback
Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/Stone Edge

Fight/Dark together hit everything in the game for at least neutral, eliminating your problem with coverage. Being slow pays off here, since it allows payback to have it's power doubled. Obligatory facade for killing stuff, although superpower is stronger after STAB which may in fact make Facade redundant- Its up to you. Last move is dependant on what you want to counter: Ice punch for dragons and ground types (Notably Gliscor), Thunderpunch for Bulky Waters, and stone edge falling somewhere inbetween. Speed EVs outrun skarmory, stopping you from taking the recieveing end of a Brave Bird before you can Superpower it.

Cucumber
09-28-2008, 02:01 PM
Its okay, but DON'T use Flame Orb. Use Toxic Orb. Flame orb lowers your attack. Personally, I'd use Jolly.

If you have gut's Flame Orb does not lower your attack Gut's allows the orb to raise attack plus Flame orb does less damage than Toxic orb.
Use Flame orb.

Gofre listed all of the recommended set's already.

Viva la Gofre
09-28-2008, 04:27 PM
If you have gut's Flame Orb does not lower your attack Gut's allows the orb to raise attack plus Flame orb does less damage than Toxic orb.
Use Flame orb.

Gofre listed all of the recommended set's already.
As I have also said, unless you have the great fortune of being able to sit Hariyama in for 6 turns without it's counter popping up, toxic orb is more beneficial. Most pokes get to stay in for 3 turns at most before being forced to switch. If this is the case, then toxic orb is better. If you feel you're gonna be able to stay out for such long periods of time, go flameorb.

Cucumber
09-28-2008, 05:10 PM
As I have also said, unless you have the great fortune of being able to sit Hariyama in for 6 turns without it's counter popping up, toxic orb is more beneficial. Most pokes get to stay in for 3 turns at most before being forced to switch. If this is the case, then toxic orb is better. If you feel you're gonna be able to stay out for such long periods of time, go flameorb.

I don't know Bullet punch can clean up alot in late game so maybe then flame orb would be better :/

shedinjask
09-28-2008, 07:36 PM
Facade isn't really worth it. Fake Out and Bullet Punch already give you terrible coverage and a SE full power Payback will do more damage. You'll need it for Cressy and the ghosts.