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-Holland-
09-30-2008, 01:14 AM
First, observe this team:

http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/389.png

Deoxys-Speed @Focus Sash
Pressure
Hasty, 156 Spd, 252 Sp. Att, 96 HP
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock

Yes, I know; this looks very, very odd compared to your usual standards, but as my lead, it's meant to obliterate Scarf Gengars and any Gyarados with dreams of forcing my hand and setting up on me. The Lum Berry is there to shake off the Sleep I might get if I happen to predict wrong and wind up against a nosy Focus Sash Gengar easing in a Hypnosis. Taunt is one of my all-time favorite moves, and with me, it's near incontrovertible that I will always have a relatively fast or effective lead that knows Taunt, because the beginning of the battle is where everything is put into play. I am mostly completely fine with offing Deoxys as a suicide lead, since he's relatively weak without the devotion to stalling or being an all-around counter, and as such, I've bestowed Stealth Rock upon him, as it is a boon to my sweepers looking for shattering OHKOs. I understand that a switch-in with Pursuit is fully capable of obliterating this, but as aforementioned, being a suicide lead is not that irksome to me.


http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/214.png

Heracross @Choice Scarf
Guts
Adamant, 252 Spd, 252 Att, 4 Sp. Def
-Stone Edge
-Megahorn
-Pursuit
-Close Combat

Know this: Heracross is not intentionally my main sweeper, but essentially a "cleaner" of sorts. I had originally put him on long-term probation from my teams since I had an unfortunate incident of Megahorn missing 5 times consecutively, but I've put him back for his sheer power and monstrous STAB attacks. I am open to the Choice Scarf variant of this, as a revenge killer is quite a boon for my team, but given my previous conundrum with accuracy, I've given him Wide Lens to alleviate this weakness, and Swords Dance to further accommodate my new-found apprehension of Heracross. He is, by all means, a total badass.

EDIT: Changed to Choice Scarf variant. Definitely an awesome revenge killer. Inaccurate more often than necessary, sure, but still very effective for cleaning up quickly and with sure-fire Speed.


http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/477.png

Gliscor @Leftovers
Hyper Cutter
Impish, 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Att
-Rock Polish
-Aerial Ace
-Baton Pass
-Taunt

On paper, I very well know that this seem to be faulty, but this particular Gliscor is a key benefactor to my team, especially my sweepers. I chose Aerial Ace above other attacks due to the rather moderate prevalence of Breloom, and for the sake of enacting himself as a solid Heracross counter. There are no Speed EVs because after a Rock Polish, mine brushes up to 422 Speed anyway, and as a tank, he knows when to be in and when to be out, subsequently ensuing the principle that remaining on the field when rationally possible allows him to pull off the pass to Heracross or Lucario extremely well. Taunt is there because, quite frankly, I'm incredibly insecure about not having the move, and I'd even enact myself in a "Suicide Taunt" just to down Slowbro.


http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/121.png

Starmie @Life Orb
Natural Cure
Timid, 216 Spd, 252 Sp. Att, 40 HP
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Recover
-Ice Beam

Originally a Milotic. This is more or less a reinforced special sweeper to clean up prominent threats very quickly, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Infernape. Moreover, this serves as a Water resistance to aid Heatran and Gliscor, who are otherwise a picture-perfect tanking combination, for the most part.


http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/490.png

Heatran @Leftovers
Flash Fire
Modest, 252 HP, 56 Sp. Att, 200 Sp. Def
-Lava Plume
-Earth Power
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

He's very ugly, but I've come to terms with the fact that he goes very well with Gliscor. Replacing Registeel here, it's actually of more benefit to take a chance at burning and lowering Special Defense than to distribute common status and weak physical attacks. This is meant to take special attacks, as most physical attackers will interject with a most gruesome Earthquake anyway, which Gliscor can just cackle at. While the shift to mainly Special Defense is a hindrance to its staying power, it more or less prolongs its survival for the sake of coming in and spewing something powerful out before leaving. Definitely nice on paper as far as I've seen.


http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/453.png

Lucario @Life Orb
Inner Focus
Adamant, 252 Att, 252 Spd, 4 HP
-Extremespeed
-Swords Dance
-Crunch
-Close Combat

Ah, so standard, it's a bit provocative of some indignation for you all, but it's sheer invigoration for me. Lucario typically benefits from Gliscor's Speed passes, but he can typically bypass the Speed issues with Extremespeed, barring Masmagius and Gengar, which is where the boons of Speed will definitely come in handy for him to use Crunch and decimate the opposition. Lucario generally has no problem sweeping because I usually bring him out very late when Stealth Rock is in play, or when I've weakened most of the opposing team as it is. The only time I would really bring him out early is if Tyranitar were to threaten a deadly kill, in which case Lucario would impede with his wonderful 4x resistance to both Rock and Dark attacks.



Evidently, I'm merely posting this team because I'm doubtful of how effective it is. After subsisting on a strategy heavily incorporating Gyarados and Breloom in a consistently changing metagame for the last year and a half, it's hard to make too much change, as any digressions from that mainstream team were merely experiments I didn't feel too secure about, even if they succeeded. So, highlight my flaws; give me suggestions...

Just know this, though: I want to stray from using Heatran, as I typically do my best to appeal to some mix of aesthetics and "badassery" in the Pokemon I use. Heatran always looked...very odd, and reminded me of several of my young cousin's exorbitant amount of obscure doodles.

EDIT: Well, I've admitted to the usefulness of Heatran, but I'm still open to debate, if you will.

faceplant527
09-30-2008, 02:51 AM
i like it !!! but i really dont like heracross. i dont see anything in him really. i like a good old fashion dragonite or gyrados as my main psyical sweeper.

ooo and hey thanks for helping me out with all my needs. i got a good team now ;)

-Holland-
09-30-2008, 03:25 AM
Eh, but I love Heracross. >_>

Also, I forgot to mention my painfully apparent Infernape weakness that arises once Deoxys goes down. I've considered replacing Milotic with Starmie, as the sleep is never really necessary:

Starmie @Life Orb
Natural Cure
Timid, 216 Spd, 252 Sp. Att, 40 HP
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Recover
-Ice Beam

Objectionable to that of the standard Counter Starmie, and I like my version because it works to distribute harder hits (obviously), and isn't just relegated to the task of putting down Gyarados, Gengar, and Salamence. I have a history of making "kamikaze Pokemon", and Starmie is by far one of my favorites for it.

Or, you know:

Vaporeon @Leftovers
Water Absorb
Bold, 252 Def, 188 HP, 68 Sp. Att
-Surf
-Yawn
-Ice Beam
-Wish

I just thought of this as I was posting this, and I appreciate the reliable recovery that it will award Registeel, especially since Registeel can take the Grass attacks coming at Vaporeon on the switch. Yawn is another favorite move of mine, as it compromises the staying ability of just about any Pokemon, and forces a hell of a lot of switches. This is a very good Infernape counter because Grass Knot is usually a weak 3HKO on Vaporeon when shy of a Nasty Plot boost. This is ample time for Vaporeon to do nasty things to him and the rest of the team. I might as well just go Vaporeon, come to think of it...

Crazed One
09-30-2008, 03:44 AM
i like it !!! but i really dont like heracross. i dont see anything in him really. i like a good old fashion dragonite or gyrados as my main psyical sweeper.

ooo and hey thanks for helping me out with all my needs. i got a good team now ;)

Have you read this Forum's Rules, if so you should have know that your post is lacking.

Onto the rate;

Deoxys- He doesn't like that berry, as he wants a Life Orb or Focus Sash.

Heracross- He wants a Scarf for dealing with Heatran and Zapdos. he also needs Pursuit now.

Milotic- Now I know you don't like Heatran, but you could use a Heatran. Fire absorber, plus you could make a RestTalk set for it to be a Status Absorber.

Overall, a great team, I be it has won you quite a few battles, G 'day!

EDIT: I started posting this a while ago, so didn't see the Starmie post. In that case I suggest keeping it as you need a special sweeper and losing Registeel for a RestTalk Heatran, it can also be your Skymin counter!

-Holland-
09-30-2008, 05:06 AM
Have you read this Forum's Rules, if so you should have know that your post is lacking.

Onto the rate;

Deoxys- He doesn't like that berry, as he wants a Life Orb or Focus Sash.

Heracross- He wants a Scarf for dealing with Heatran and Zapdos. he also needs Pursuit now.

Milotic- Now I know you don't like Heatran, but you could use a Heatran. Fire absorber, plus you could make a RestTalk set for it to be a Status Absorber.

Overall, a great team, I be it has won you quite a few battles, G 'day!

EDIT: I started posting this a while ago, so didn't see the Starmie post. In that case I suggest keeping it as you need a special sweeper and losing Registeel for a RestTalk Heatran, it can also be your Skymin counter!

Well, if Heatran really is that much of a boon, then I'll consider it...especially since I've had a ripe Modest one with good IVs for ages, but I thought it was a bit ugly to be training...>_>

Gliscor and Heatran seems like a monstrous tanking combination, and Starmie covers for their Water weakness to some extent, if not Heracross on occasion.

As for Heracross, I'm guessing I just opt for Adamant, change the item and Pursuit over Swords Dance? I can see the logic in that. I guess accuracy really isn't worth the sacrifice of quick kills. I've actually considered Medicham for this position, speaking of the Choice Scarf, but he seems generally faulty. Of course, Pursuit trapping no longer becomes an option, then...

As for Deoxys, I had kept a Focus Sash on him, but he seemed to survive some otherwise fatal assaults from Extremespeeds and Shadow Sneaks, but I guess those are admittedly hard to come by. I'm guessing the Choice Band Metagross that comes in on turn 1 would not OHKO me as I try to escape...Point taken, then. I'll put a Focus Sash.


As much as I hate to admit, Heatran is probably that useful...I'll give a variation of the Rest Talking set a try. My only gripe with it is that it's not a hardwired Infernape counter after switching in...but given that Heracross will have the Choice Scarf, he will be able to thrash him with Stone Edge...Never mind...I keep trying to find all these inconceivable excuses to deny myself this...thing on my team, but it's good nonetheless.

Crazed One
09-30-2008, 10:06 PM
Glad I could help, and yes, you overwhelming ScarfTran weakness will be covered by ScarfCross, and RestTalkTran. So I do think it is a good idea. On The RestTalkTran I also suggest you run Shuca Berry, or Leftovers.

-Holland-
10-01-2008, 12:28 AM
Glad I could help, and yes, you overwhelming ScarfTran weakness will be covered by ScarfCross, and RestTalkTran. So I do think it is a good idea. On The RestTalkTran I also suggest you run Shuca Berry, or Leftovers.

I kept Leftovers, as he'll be damaged when sleeping. The Shuca Berry would help, sure, but like I said, Earthquakes are quite predictable, which is why I invested in mainly Special Defense to begin with.

I was also considering a Tentacruel, in fact...and possibly replacing Gliscor for Cresselia, but this would compromise any useful Speed boosts for Heatran, Starmie, and Lucario, especially since they're perfect recipients with their respective Ice resistances. Moreover, I don't think Tentacruel would fit anywhere, especially since he's best as a supportive Infernape counter, of which the countering aspect is covered by Starmie, with more relegated tasks to spare.

Crazed One
10-01-2008, 02:25 AM
I kept Leftovers, as he'll be damaged when sleeping. The Shuca Berry would help, sure, but like I said, Earthquakes are quite predictable, which is why I invested in mainly Special Defense to begin with.

I was also considering a Tentacruel, in fact...and possibly replacing Gliscor for Cresselia, but this would compromise any useful Speed boosts for Heatran, Starmie, and Lucario, especially since they're perfect recipients with their respective Ice resistances. Moreover, I don't think Tentacruel would fit anywhere, especially since he's best as a supportive Infernape counter, of which the countering aspect is covered by Starmie, with more relegated tasks to spare.

You definatly don't want a tentacruel, as Gliscor is your only reliable EQ switch. Also with Tenta both of your walls would be weak to EQ. This would also cause a sad Mamo weakness, which no one ever wants.

-Holland-
10-01-2008, 05:47 AM
You definatly don't want a tentacruel, as Gliscor is your only reliable EQ switch. Also with Tenta both of your walls would be weak to EQ. This would also cause a sad Mamo weakness, which no one ever wants.

Well, what I had originally thought was Tentacruel over Heatran, and Cresselia over Gliscor for the Earthquake immunity. This way, it's a relatively safe balance, but even under those clauses, it's still very fallible, because Heatran resisting Ice so extremely well with his sky-high Special Defense is the perfect conjugate for Gliscor's immunity to Earthquake, especially since that's an infinitely inviting Baton Pass to patch up Heatran's low Speed, which, at full IVs, will go up to 380 after a Rock Polish. Like I edited in my first post, it's picture-perfect.

My problem here is just the aesthetic detriment, as you probably know, but I'll come to terms with it, because it seems as if Heatran plays much, much better than I've always thought it did.

EDIT: I'm curious why Gofre doesn't have any input here...he seems to post in most RMTs.

Crazed One
10-01-2008, 11:22 PM
I'm guessing because yours doesn't need a lot of help like most do, take it as a compliment. I usually don't even bother with the helpless ones.