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Spartan91
10-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Hello All. Well the title pretty much says it. I'm looking to EV train a Tank but I'm curious as to which pokemon is a good candidate. I've heard (and seen videos) of a blissey with over 700HP at lvl 100! Wondering if that is the route to go. Anyway, if it possible to help me out that'd be great (EVs and moveset would be appreciated) Thanks -Spartan91

Dark Turtwig
10-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Hello All. Well the title pretty much says it. I'm looking to EV train a Tank but I'm curious as to which pokemon is a good candidate. I've heard (and seen videos) of a blissey with over 700HP at lvl 100! Wondering if that is the route to go. Anyway, if it possible to help me out that'd be great (EVs and moveset would be appreciated) Thanks -Spartan91

Well, you want at least two tanks usually, one for Special Defense, (such as Blissey, everyone's favorite Special Wall) one for Defense, (like Steelix, or Skarmory) or, if you can find one, one for both. (Like Dusknoir.) Dusknoir can have 405 Defense, and 369 Special Defense at level 100. It has quite Pitiful HP though. Another Great Wall is Umbreon. It can have a Max of 394 Special Defense, if you are willing to sacrifice Defense a little, or pretty high Defense, and Special Defense. It has good HP as well.

Limitless
10-01-2008, 09:40 PM
In ordinance to walls, it really depends on what your team needs. Some teams don't even need walls, while other teams have a full team of walls. It honestly depends on your team.

Skottles
10-01-2008, 09:41 PM
The ideas DT gave are good ideas but also Bronzong is a good tank for both Def and Sp Def.

-Holland-
10-01-2008, 10:46 PM
In ordinance to walls, it really depends on what your team needs. Some teams don't even need walls, while other teams have a full team of walls. It honestly depends on your team.

Yeah, it really depends on what kind of team you plan to build. Tanks are usually put in twos on the teams that are meant to be balanced, or rather the ones that are intended to confront all expected and some unexpected threats. But, many teams can subsist on sweepers and relatively good support Pokemon, such as Stat Boosting Baton Passers like Celebi. I've actually seen a team with several Choice Scarfed Pokemon with a great type combination that solicits the other Scarfed Pokemon to come in easily and sweep when one was in danger. Aside from those, there was simply a Gardevoir for support and a Starmie for backup offense. The team nearly beat me down, especially when Medicham would take Stone Edge and threaten my team with some unpredictable moves, with Gardevoir to help him Wish it off. It was a fallible strategy in some remote ways, but it proves that a team doesn't necessarily need tanks to function; they need them just o be balanced or to stall...

However, my favorite dual tanks are definitely Registeel and Bronzong; they both work extremely well and have so many resistances, it's ridiculous. For special tanking, I recommend Milotic (or Gyarados...it actually works to a certain extent, if you give the effort to the EVs, and Dragon Dance can make it unstoppable), and for physical, I'd say Gliscor or Forretress (Scizor works very well, too, with his only weakness being Fire, great defenses, Agility, Swords Dance, and Baton Pass to pass them off easily)/

Lucky 1276
10-01-2008, 11:56 PM
Tyranitar, Gyrados,snorlax and Salamence are good routes for tanks.

Dark Turtwig
10-02-2008, 12:12 AM
Tyranitar, Gyrados,snorlax and Salamence are good routes for tanks.

None of those are tanks dude... Those are all Sweepers. (Except for Snorlax. He is kind of a mix.)

Fire Away
10-02-2008, 02:06 AM
None of those are tanks dude... Those are all Sweepers. (Except for Snorlax. He is kind of a mix.)

No, they're tanks alright. A tank is something with decent defenses that can take a hit and then deal one back. Those are probably the best examples I saw so far.

Dark Turtwig
10-02-2008, 02:07 AM
No, they're tanks alright. A tank is something with decent defenses that can take a hit and then deal one back. Those are probably the best examples I saw so far.

Tyranitar? A tank? Huh. Never thought. I thought tanks were really just pokemon that were mostly defensve. Like Bronzong, or Registeel, or maybe Cresselia.

Starkipraggy
10-02-2008, 03:55 AM
Tyranitar? A tank? Huh. Never thought. I thought tanks were really just pokemon that were mostly defensve. Like Bronzong, or Registeel, or maybe Cresselia.
That's a wall.

Wall: Something that soaks up attacks no problem and sits there. And soaks more attacks. And then pokes you to death. Bronzong, Registeel and Cresselia are walls.

Tank: Takes hits, then fires back really hard hits in the face. Stuff like Metagross, Tyranitar, Rhyperior are tanks.

Dark Turtwig
10-02-2008, 04:35 AM
That's a wall.

Wall: Something that soaks up attacks no problem and sits there. And soaks more attacks. And then pokes you to death. Bronzong, Registeel and Cresselia are walls.

Tank: Takes hits, then fires back really hard hits in the face. Stuff like Metagross, Tyranitar, Rhyperior are tanks.

Oh.. okay. I always assumed Walls and Tanks were the same thing.

-Holland-
10-02-2008, 06:20 AM
Oh.. okay. I always assumed Walls and Tanks were the same thing.

Well, it makes sense; in war, a wall is just fortification, but not necessarily a countermeasure, and a tank is relatively well-reinforced, but it carries heavy artillery to decimate its surroundings. Now, Salamence isn't exactly a prime example of this, barring some Infernape and Celebi, but Tyranitar is definitely an excellent tank, especially when he has Dragon Dance or Choice Band to obliterate things with ease. Gyarados is a more prominent example, with the ubiquity of the "Bulky Gyarados" set that goes around and comes around.

Now, I admit to having the terminology wrong, I guess...but my recommendations were walls. Great tanks are more like, as aforementioned, Gyarados, and also Porygon2. Gallade also works to some extent, but it's often a mixed blessing, as his Defense is very low. I recommend Porygon2 for a lot of things, but you should know that he's not necessarily the best at any given thing. His true gift is his versatility and his unpredictability. In a way, he's a lot like Gengar and Celebi, but he has tons of options, and his defenses will always come out looking great. If you want a tank with some insane power, though, then Metagross is usually one of the absolute best, given his sky-high Defense and massive Attack power.

Master Aqua
10-02-2008, 07:25 AM
Ryperior makes a good physical based tank if you ask me if something more on the physical side of things.

here is move set eves and nature
252 HP 6 Attack 252 Defence
impish
earthquake
stonedge
megahorn
stealth rock/roar

hsb39
10-02-2008, 07:43 AM
Dusknoir can be an awesome MixTank, has itself a great physical movepool.

Master Aqua
10-02-2008, 08:50 AM
Dusknoir can be an awesome MixTank, has itself a great physical movepool.

With base 65 special attack i do not see how can be a good mix tank with out sacrificing another move for calm mind wich is not worth it, but he is a good tank never the less.

Exon Auxus
10-02-2008, 11:45 AM
Tyranitar, Gyrados,snorlax and Salamence are good routes for tanks.

Three of those pokemon have 4x weaknesses, and Sala's and Gyara's defensive stats aren't all that high.

To be honest, some of the best tanks don't already have the high defenses, but you send them in against something they're good against. Opponent switches, and you get a Calm Mind or Iron Defense or whatever in.

Or you can just go with the 252HP/252Def Suicune. :P

Fire Away
10-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Three of those pokemon have 4x weaknesses, and Sala's and Gyara's defensive stats aren't all that high.

To be honest, some of the best tanks don't already have the high defenses, but you send them in against something they're good against. Opponent switches, and you get a Calm Mind or Iron Defense or whatever in.

Or you can just go with the 252HP/252Def Suicune. :P

Salamence and Gyarados both get Intimidate, which is a *huge* factor when it comes to switching in. You're also overlooking their long list of resistances that come with those 4x weaknesses.

Limitless
10-02-2008, 07:41 PM
Salamence and Gyarados both get Intimidate, which is a *huge* factor when it comes to switching in. You're also overlooking their long list of resistances that come with those 4x weaknesses.

Gyarados is plenty more useful with the Life Orb set. 32 Hp/252 Atk/ rest in speed. Dragon Dance, Ice Fang, Waterfall, Earthquake/Stone Edge.

I honestly haven't found any use to bulky Doses anymore. =/

-Holland-
10-03-2008, 12:44 AM
Gyarados is plenty more useful with the Life Orb set. 32 Hp/252 Atk/ rest in speed. Dragon Dance, Ice Fang, Waterfall, Earthquake/Stone Edge.

I honestly haven't found any use to bulky Doses anymore. =/

I think that's because people have made it a priority to counter it. Life Orb poses a threat the second you're forced to switch, but Bulky Gyarados is rather maneuverable, because teams are deliberately made with some counter for it.

Nevertheless, you have a point; it's extremely powerful. For a Dragon Dancer, I usually prefer Tyranitar, however. Now that he has the option for Ice Punch, he's extremely versatile, and as such can beat the living hell out of Gliscor and Sky Shaymin, all the while boasting great resistances and extremely high Special Defense.

Fire Away
10-03-2008, 12:50 AM
Gyarados is plenty more useful with the Life Orb set. 32 Hp/252 Atk/ rest in speed. Dragon Dance, Ice Fang, Waterfall, Earthquake/Stone Edge.

I honestly haven't found any use to bulky Doses anymore. =/

I don't disagree, but I'm only making the point that 4x weaknesses don't make them defensively inept.

hsb39
10-03-2008, 02:40 AM
With base 65 special attack i do not see how can be a good mix tank with out sacrificing another move for calm mind wich is not worth it, but he is a good tank never the less.
Defensively mixed, I can't think of many offensively mixed Tanks (T-Tar and Sala can work).

As for BulkyDos, I find it easy to find the counter and switch into another counter (Electivire, Jolteon, and Dugtrio can be of great use), and return to easy setup.

Limitless
10-03-2008, 09:34 PM
I don't disagree, but I'm only making the point that 4x weaknesses don't make them defensively inept.

Yea I'll agree with you there. Resistances are the best way to go. It allows you to switch easily, whether that be offensive or defensive teams.

hsb39
10-04-2008, 12:58 AM
Yea I'll agree with you there. Resistances are the best way to go. It allows you to switch easily, whether that be offensive or defensive teams.
And sometimes you will have both, look at Heracross (I'm not saying that it is a Tank), it has a 4x weakness to an incredibly uncommon type, and a lot of really usefull resistances, while it has 2x weaknesses to some more common types, the 4x is rarely what Hera will worry about.

-Holland-
10-04-2008, 01:26 AM
And sometimes you will have both, look at Heracross (I'm not saying that it is a Tank), it has a 4x weakness to an incredibly uncommon type, and a lot of really usefull resistances, while it has 2x weaknesses to some more common types, the 4x is rarely what Hera will worry about.

With the exception of Rock/Steel, 4x weaknesses usually afford many aggrandizing resistances, such as with the cases Heatran, Scizor, and Flygon. Moreover, this eliminates the factor of uncertainty when potentially facing attacks ascribed to these 4x weaknesses, and thus it's actually easier to switch these Pokemon out to a viable counter, because the moves coming at them will be rather predictable...this especially applies to Scizor, who has great defenses either way, and very few Pokemon use Fire attacks well. Hence, when you see one of the blatant threats, you'll know to run and switch in Heatran or Suicune.

But, you know, in the case of Spritiomb, who has no weaknesses, there is a deplorable lack of useful resistances, with only immunities to two rather scarcely used attacking types.

hsb39
10-04-2008, 02:47 AM
With the exception of Rock/Steel, 4x weaknesses usually afford many aggrandizing resistances, such as with the cases Heatran, Scizor, and Flygon. Moreover, this eliminates the factor of uncertainty when potentially facing attacks ascribed to these 4x weaknesses, and thus it's actually easier to switch these Pokemon out to a viable counter, because the moves coming at them will be rather predictable...this especially applies to Scizor, who has great defenses either way, and very few Pokemon use Fire attacks well. Hence, when you see one of the blatant threats, you'll know to run and switch in Heatran or Suicune.

But, you know, in the case of Spritiomb, who has no weaknesses, there is a deplorable lack of useful resistances, with only immunities to two rather scarcely used attacking types.
Although Fire moves are much more common this gen, the physical/special split really helped the type overall. Magnezone is another example of a double weakness with a lot of resistances, even though the 4x is incredibly common (and Magnet Rise makes it the only Pokemon to resist both BoltBeam and QuakeEdge, although QuakeEdge is less popular than QuakeSlide was last gen).

-Holland-
10-04-2008, 05:06 AM
Although Fire moves are much more common this gen, the physical/special split really helped the type overall. Magnezone is another example of a double weakness with a lot of resistances, even though the 4x is incredibly common (and Magnet Rise makes it the only Pokemon to resist both BoltBeam and QuakeEdge, although QuakeEdge is less popular than QuakeSlide was last gen).

True, Fire has become a much more versatile type, and is no longer stopped dead by Arcanine or Houndoom. Nevertheless, it's still relatively easy to stop, with the withstanding exorbitance of bulky Water types...Then again, most of the time, Fire attacks aren't actually coming from Fire type Pokemon, as they've become more or less a liability with the omnipresent Stealth Rock. Thus, I guess it'll really depend on your specific situation.

But, yeah, most of the time, 4x weaknesses are typically more frivolous ideals when compared to the benefits of the typing that makes the Pokemon that way. The only exception is probably Empoleon, who has so many resistances it's kind of hilarious, but it's also true that it's very weaknesses happen to be Ground, Fighting, and Electric; three of the most common, if not the most common, attacking types in the OU metagame.

hsb39
10-04-2008, 06:09 AM
True, Fire has become a much more versatile type, and is no longer stopped dead by Arcanine or Houndoom. Nevertheless, it's still relatively easy to stop, with the withstanding exorbitance of bulky Water types...Then again, most of the time, Fire attacks aren't actually coming from Fire type Pokemon, as they've become more or less a liability with the omnipresent Stealth Rock. Thus, I guess it'll really depend on your specific situation.

But, yeah, most of the time, 4x weaknesses are typically more frivolous ideals when compared to the benefits of the typing that makes the Pokemon that way. The only exception is probably Empoleon, who has so many resistances it's kind of hilarious, but it's also true that it's very weaknesses happen to be Ground, Fighting, and Electric; three of the most common, if not the most common, attacking types in the OU metagame.
I do love Empoleon, although Bronzong is probably a better example of the ridiculous (but Empoleon would classify as a tank).

Liquid_Iron
10-05-2008, 05:58 PM
Hello All. Well the title pretty much says it. I'm looking to EV train a Tank but I'm curious as to which pokemon is a good candidate. I've heard (and seen videos) of a blissey with over 700HP at lvl 100! Wondering if that is the route to go. Anyway, if it possible to help me out that'd be great (EVs and moveset would be appreciated) Thanks -Spartan91
yes my bliss has MAX HP and let me tell you it got me out of tough situations more times than i can count, but make sure not to use skarmory with blissey on the same team. incase you havent heard some trainers use the no skarm/bliss clause, which the name implies, means bliss and skarm cant be on the same team.
bronzong is always a solid choice he can be used for rain dance teams, supporter,toxic staller the list is endless. but i see some people are giving you all OU walls which is boring :S if you want to be orginal use a miltank "one of the most strudy pokemon in exsistance" (from smogon) so i tried miltank and wow...this pokemon can do it all cursetank really is the way to go. need any more advice on tanks pc me :D

Liquid_iron

-Holland-
10-06-2008, 04:47 AM
yes my bliss has MAX HP and let me tell you it got me out of tough situations more times than i can count, but make sure not to use skarmory with blissey on the same team. incase you havent heard some trainers use the no skarm/bliss clause, which the name implies, means bliss and skarm cant be on the same team.
bronzong is always a solid choice he can be used for rain dance teams, supporter,toxic staller the list is endless. but i see some people are giving you all OU walls which is boring :S if you want to be orginal use a miltank "one of the most strudy pokemon in exsistance" (from smogon) so i tried miltank and wow...this pokemon can do it all cursetank really is the way to go. need any more advice on tanks pc me :D

Liquid_iron

I really don't think anyone complains about those two walling pretty much all the hits in the game anymore, since Infernape can beat the living hell out of both of them in a snap, as can Salamence. Even Lucario can crack Skarmory's neck with Close Combat after a Swords Dance and Life Orb. Even if the clause exists still, it doesn't account for many people.

Also, I think I'll take to the discretion of stating that I think the topic maker wanted some insight on walls, as his inquiry concerned Blissey. I only say this because apparently there's a distinct difference between tanks and walls, and everyone here seems to be going all over the place.

Liquid_Iron
10-06-2008, 05:03 AM
I really don't think anyone complains about those two walling pretty much all the hits in the game anymore, since Infernape can beat the living hell out of both of them in a snap, as can Salamence. Even Lucario can crack Skarmory's neck with Close Combat after a Swords Dance and Life Orb. Even if the clause exists still, it doesn't account for many people.

Also, I think I'll take to the discretion of stating that I think the topic maker wanted some insight on walls, as his inquiry concerned Blissey. I only say this because apparently there's a distinct difference between tanks and walls, and everyone here seems to be going all over the place.
honestyl that sounds like spam becuase your not answers the top question
if this is about blissey then go for it as for physical tank blastoise comes in handy i takes about 1/4 damge when hit my weaviles night slash.
3 pokemon out of 400+ that can beat the skarm/bliss combo....sounds pecular.
give toxic to bliss or skarm then switch stall simple as that cheapest tecnique in the book.
as for miltank if you want to stand out from the crowd as i mentioned early use this pokemon its got a reliable recovery move (milk drink) and the ability scappy so you dont get walled my ghost like bliss can. anymore info just pm me ill be happy to help.

Starkipraggy
10-08-2008, 01:10 PM
SkarmBliss is now epic useless.

Mixed Infernape eats SkarmBliss alive. Y'hear me? ALIVE.

Mixed Salamence also eats SkarmBliss alive, and when you see an opposing Mence for the first time you're forced to think if the Mence is physical or special.

Specs Lucario can smash holes in both Blissey and Skarmory with STABed Aura Sphere. Physical Luke, as mentioned, after one SD and with Life Orb, can make even Skarmory feel hurt from Close Combat.

Skarmory's No. 1 killer from last generation got an evolution and a move that makes it immune to Earthquake. Magnezone appears on your Skarm! gg.

Lots of physical sweepers can kill Skarm with Fire Blast/Fire Fang. Bwahaha.

Lots of special sweepers can carry HP Fighting or Focus Blast and hurt Blissey. Bwahaha.

Any mixed sweeper worth a look at eats SkarmBliss alive. 'Nuff said.

And to put a final nail in the coffin, when Skarm runs and Bliss comes in on a Porygon-Z with a Nasty Plot up and Life Orb, Hyper Beam OHKOs Blissey regardless of race, language or religion.

I have to admit that Miltank is a really good tank. You don't even need to run Curse; you can use a Blissey set except with Return instead of SToss/special attack of choice and some EVs into Attack and you can dish out the hurt. Or spread status. And then cleric. Of course then you'll have to drop Thick Fat, which is bad...

And Zong has been mentioned OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAND times.

What I dislike about Scizor is how it doesn't get extra stat points from evolution, and it has the same Sp. Def from Scyther, which makes it just as weak on the special side as Scyther. And Scizor gets a useless Poison immunity in exchange for the Ground immunity, and is now weak to Ground and Fighting, which are very popular types on physical sweepers, the same ones it got added Defense to tank.

pokequeen963
01-26-2010, 10:19 PM
there are way too many decent tanks and walls. I'm way better at tanks, I always have at least two on my teams. Good mixed ones I've seen are: snorlax, milotic, metagross, registeel(good defense, plus reistance, plus attcks, plus good movepool=pure awesomeness) and swampert. Swamperts my fav
here's my favorite one:
Swampert@leftovers with max Evs in defenses and sp. def throw in anything else in atk -speed +attack
waterfall
avalanch
earthquake
substitute

scubasteveE
01-28-2010, 12:03 AM
there are way too many decent tanks and walls. I'm way better at tanks, I always have at least two on my teams. Good mixed ones I've seen are: snorlax, milotic, metagross, registeel(good defense, plus reistance, plus attcks, plus good movepool=pure awesomeness) and swampert. Swamperts my fav
here's my favorite one:
Swampert@leftovers with max Evs in defenses and sp. def throw in anything else in atk -speed +attack
waterfall
avalanch
earthquake
substitute
Yeah, don't revive threads that are over a year old, make sure you read the forum rules^_^

Griffsports
01-30-2010, 10:47 AM
walls aren't always a good tank.

tank are bulky and power ful liek suicune snorlax or zapdos or machamp

a wall with seissmec toss could be a tank sucha registeel, milktank on, and on,

Hope this helps! :goofy: