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Zigzagoon22
10-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Is this a good Shiftry?

Shiftry

- Fake out
- Faint attack
- Rock slide
- Swords dance

Item: Blackglasses (raises dark type moves)
EV: 252 Atk. 252 Speed 4 Def.
Nature: ??? IV: ???

My strategy is first use Fake out. Then Swords dance. Finally rock slide or faint attack. If needed without swords dance.

Shiftry will get STAB with faint attack and Blackglasses raises this even more.

Vlad The Impaler
10-27-2008, 02:38 PM
Is this a good Shiftry?

Shiftry

- Fake out
- Faint attack
- Rock slide
- Swords dance

Item: Blackglasses (raises dark type moves)
EV: 252 Atk. 252 Speed 4 Def.
Nature: ??? IV: ???

My strategy is first use Fake out. Then Swords dance. Finally rock slide or faint attack. If needed without swords dance.

Shiftry will get STAB with faint attack and Blackglasses raises this even more.

It's okay, but what happens if you come up against a Lucario, or any other fighting type?

Viva la Gofre
10-27-2008, 04:12 PM
There are various vegitables with better physical movepools than shiftry- the thing has nothing to boost with swords dance. As already said, you have no way of touching fighters on that set, and has very limited coverage in general. However if you have access to platinum you could try this:

Shiftry@Life Orb
Jolly
252Att/252Spd/6HP
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Brick Break
Sucker Punch

Dark-Fight covers everything in the game for neutral, and Sucker Punch offers more reliable prioirty and isn't limited to the first turn. Seed Bomb for a chunky STAB move. However it has far better special options available to it, and this won't fare too well outside of UU.

Zigzagoon22
10-29-2008, 07:51 AM
There are various vegitables with better physical movepools than shiftry- the thing has nothing to boost with swords dance. As already said, you have no way of touching fighters on that set, and has very limited coverage in general. However if you have access to platinum you could try this:

Shiftry@Life Orb
Jolly
252Att/252Spd/6HP
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Brick Break
Sucker Punch

Dark-Fight covers everything in the game for neutral, and Sucker Punch offers more reliable prioirty and isn't limited to the first turn. Seed Bomb for a chunky STAB move. However it has far better special options available to it, and this won't fare too well outside of UU.

Is this better?

- Sucker punch
- faint attack
- swords dance
- brick break

I want to make use of STAB.

Viva la Gofre
10-29-2008, 10:09 AM
Is this better?

- Sucker punch
- faint attack
- swords dance
- brick break

I want to make use of STAB.
To be frank, no. Faint attack has pitiful power and you have dark-type coverage in sucker punch.Two moves on the same type on a single poke is a waste on 99% of sets. What does faint attack achieve that sucker punch doesn't? Sure it can hit a bit more often, but the power is abysmal. Seed bomb is stronger, still has STAB and offers more variety compared to a second dark move.

IceTime
11-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Firstly, i object to the fact that two same type moves on the same set are 99% detrimental. Think Honchcrow, Sucker Punch/Pursuit is a good combo, trapping the opponents in a dilemna whether to switch or not, Metagross, Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch, with the main STAB move being mash and bullet punch for cleanups, similar to Waterfall/Aqua Jet on Kabutops, and even Eruption/Overheat for Scarf Typhlosion sets, Eruption for when hes on high hp, Overheat for on low hp and taking advantage of blaze. There are many situations where two moves with same types are actually good instead of bad, but commonly, type coverage is preferred.

Ok to the shiftry. I generally prefer Shiftry to be special, since its physical movepool is a bit lacking.

Shiftry@Life Orb
Jolly
252Att/252Spd/6HP
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Brick Break
Sucker Punch

this set as said by gofre would be shiftry's attempt to sweep using his higher attack stat. although if you want this, cacturne does it clearly better due to its higher offensive stats. theres also the specs set,

Shiftry @ Choice Specs
Modest
252SPatk/252Speed/4 HP
Leaf Storm
Dark Pulse
Extrasensory
Explosion

which does well considering his better special movepool, maybe throw off the specs, stick life orb and nasty plot over explosion, and energyball over leaf storm, and you have a special sweeper shiftry. i feel the shiftry you suggested is very lacking, and your strategy is ruined if the person decides to be smart and whack you after fake out, and blow throw Shiftry's paper like defenses for the simple OHKO. the x1.1 items are also very situational, and are not the best option in many cases, but there are places where it can be used. Oh one more thing.

Is this better?

- Sucker punch
- faint attack
- swords dance
- brick break

I want to make use of STAB.

sometimes, STAB isnt always the best thing, faint attack really isnt good, so yeah.

Viva la Gofre
11-05-2008, 02:41 PM
Firstly, i object to the fact that two same type moves on the same set are 99% detrimental. Think Honchcrow, Sucker Punch/Pursuit is a good combo, trapping the opponents in a dilemna whether to switch or not, Metagross, Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch, with the main STAB move being mash and bullet punch for cleanups, similar to Waterfall/Aqua Jet on Kabutops, and even Eruption/Overheat for Scarf Typhlosion sets, Eruption for when hes on high hp, Overheat for on low hp and taking advantage of blaze. There are many situations where two moves with same types are actually good instead of bad, but commonly, type coverage is preferred.

You misunderstood what I meant. I meant that the majority of pokemon sets have no need at all for a second STAB. Some of your examples are testament to this, but the one that springs to my mind is specsmence. But if you notice, all of the pokes with two STAB moves use one of them for a secondary purpose. Those with a low power and a high power move (specsmence with dragon pulse/Draco meteor, typhlosion with flamethrower/overheat) are used for early and late game sweeping. STAB/Pursuit are also used in completely different situations- you wouldn't pursuit a poke that was staying in, nor would you use sucker punch on a poke you know's gonna be switched for a counter. They cover each other's backs. Same goes for a STAB/Priority combo. But two pretty generic moves that do very little different share no purpose. You don't get starmie with surf and hydro pump on one set, nor do you find machamp with brick break and dynamic punch. This is precisely the case here. The only time faint attack is beneficial over sucker punch is when you know status/set-up moves are coming, and even then faint attack's base damage is so low you may as well have used a move with better coverage that ends up doing roughly the same damage.

Shiftry @ Choice Specs
Modest
252SPatk/252Speed/4 HP
Leaf Storm
Dark Pulse
Extrasensory
Explosion

which does well considering his better special movepool, maybe throw off the specs, stick life orb and nasty plot over explosion, and energyball over leaf storm, and you have a special sweeper shiftry. i feel the shiftry you suggested is very lacking, and your strategy is ruined if the person decides to be smart and whack you after fake out, and blow throw Shiftry's paper like defenses for the simple OHKO. the x1.1 items are also very situational, and are not the best option in many cases, but there are places where it can be used. Oh one more thing.


While that specs set is fine for UU, being used in OU demands focus blast/HP Ground to take on steel types. Put it in over explosion in OU, with Nasty plot being viable over extrasensory (Since fighters are nowhere near as prevelant in the higher metagames)

IceTime
11-05-2008, 03:46 PM
agreed to the fact that they have a secondary purpose, similarly agreed to the fact that faint attack is redundant on this shiftry. sorry i kinda read too much into your statement. also in higher metagame, Celebi is also prevalent, so X-Scissor might be a viable option, if only for Celebi. Granted Extrasensory isnt needed in OU, wasnt thinking clearly. Something like Typhlosion @ Choice Specs 252 sp atk 252 speed

Eruption
Fire Blast
Flare Blitz
Blast Burn

that would be weird and redundant.