[URPG] Important Case

[Tamer San]

As you all know, in URPG, we have Elite 4 members and we also have Gym Leaders, but don't you think it is overpowered being both, an Elite 4 member and a Gym leader. Even Koja had to give up his gym leader position to become an Elite 4. Anyway, my point is that this is kindda unfair to many members, and since we will be having activity due to summer vacation I guess we need some free spots so members would still be attracted to the RPG. Anyway, the question is, do you THINK and BELIEVE that being both Elite and a Gym Leader is fair?

I voted that they shouldn't do both jobs, and control both positions for a simple reason. It is logical that a gym leader isn't an Elite 4 member, and vice-versa. beside, I think being an Elite 4 members is an honor and a privilage(Sp?) that overcomes being a Gym leader.

NOTE: Please, when voting in the poll post a reply and state your reasons for sake of fairness. And this poll isn't final, it is just a case that Jack will judge eventually so I guess the winner in the poll doesn't matter much since the final word is Jack's. Adios...

[King Zark]

I say both for only one reason no one battles all the gyms and no one battles the elite four so they should be allowed to keep there gym.

[Matt]

We should give more people a chance to run the gyms. I say either one ore the other. Don't let one person hog the spots with two jobs. Split them up.

[Tamer San]

D.2, i agree with you, obviously. Zark, I simply didn't get what you ment with your...answer?! ._.

[JohtoTrainer]

Nobody challenges the Elites. We get challenged every 4 months. Most of the Elite members are the best for the position in their gym. Tamer, this is not the game this is the URPG.

So, I vote They can do both.

[Loyal Arcanine]

I think they should be allowed both. There are hardly any Elite Four challenges. Actually, none since I've been around. :neutral:

[~* Esper *~]

This entire entity, in itself, is based solely off the pokemon games. We should try and resemble th,m as much as possible.

That's one thing about having so much power, few are willing to challenge it. So, no I don't think it's FAIR to lket the Elite 4 members have both an Elite position AND a Gym. How is it fair when there are other people dying to get gyms, yet someone who already has an honored and superior position with their own responsibilities intact are keeping them from that, it's one or the other, you can't have your cake, and eat it too ...

[Deoxysfan]

I think they should do only one Elite 4 or Gym Leader. If both other people would not have a chance to do Gym or Elite 4.

[King Zark]

D.2, i agree with you, obviously. Zark, I simply didn't get what you ment with your...answer?! ._.


the elite rarly ever get challenged to a battle because they have to have 8 gym badges. (similar to what JT said)

How many people have actuaclly challenged the elites all 4 of them?

[absol2005]

I think they should do only 1 job.

[Marth]

Ah, Tamer, I don't know why you bring this case. Nobody has complained about double-jobs. Let's analize the facts:

Facts:
-The Elites are rarely Challenged.
I have only had 2 fights so far, and it was more than a year ago. So this is true. The reason, however, is not that we are "too powerful" or that trainers are afraid of challenging us. No. Most refs and most people don't have time for a 6 vs 6 fight, even if you save the battle and continue later. Sometimes the battles can go on and on and be very exhausting.
Not a lot of people have eight badges, that's true too.

Tamer, you say it is unfair to many members. In which sense?
We made a gym roll call recently. From my area, at least one position will be open again (Cianwood). Some people are even rarely challenged on their respective gyms. Truth is, only a few gym leaders are active themselves.
Do you believe free spots "attract" new members? I don't think so, new members are not even experienced enough to be gym leaders. What motivates them, in my opinion, is the dream of becoming champions.
If gym leaders and elite fours were easy, everybody could challenge the E4s with no effort at all. That's why i'm always against a rookie trainer taking a gym without any experience


@Esper.
You've wanted my gym badly for a long time. I've always given you the option of a fight to determinate who's the best Psychic gym leader.
I'll edit this later, G2g.... =/

[Karisuma-Teichou]

They should only beable to do one. There the best of the best. Not everyone can be the best of the best. Other people who are new should beable to have a Gym.

[Focal]

They should only get to do one. To challenge the E4 you need all 8 badges from one Region, but to do it you might have to face the Leader of a Gym which is also an E4. And we all know the E4's were chosen for their unbelievable skill, and only 1 person has been able to do it. Think of how tough it would be if their was 1 E4 member in each Region, you would have to pass him/her. How would you plan on doing it? They'll have type disadvantages covered, they'll have though of everything, or else they wouldn't have been chosen for the E4. So I think they should just choose the one or the other and leave it at that :neutral:

[MystiKal]

Meh I say let them do both because I do not want n00bs taking over the gyms, the gym battles are supposed to be hard.

[Princess Serenity]

I think they should have to pick, to give others a chance!

[Loyal Arcanine]

This entire entity, in itself, is based solely off the pokemon games. We should try and resemble th,m as much as possible.


No we shouldn't. The URPG may look like the games but when changes have been needed or wanted they have taken place. For an example, we count damage in percentages, which gives Leech Seed etc. a disadvantage compared to in-game. Also, Gym Trainers (understudy's to the Leader) have been not approved before too. And so too in this case, we should look to what's good for the URPG and not if it's like the games.

As I said before, being an Elite means, apart from regular Trainer battle's and WAR Battle's, a battle once a year for certain strong Trainers. If you ask me, that would cause a huge decrease in URPG activity. Besides, if Elites would give up on their Gym Leader position, they would be replaced by even more newbies with un-trained teams. That would mean way too easy badges, which ain't fun at all.

*Points to VT's post*

[JohtoTrainer]

Thank You Mike. Esper it's obvious that the only reason you agree with Tamer is you want Saffron. Well, your not getting it, because we're not giving up our gyms.

We are the people best suited to defend our gyms, and you guys know it.

[~* Esper *~]

Wow, JT I didn't know you knew what I was thinking, um ... NOT !

How about no, because of the fact that nobody here seems to know that I gave Saffron to Marth when I took a chance on Ecruteak. Sure I wouldn't mind having it, but now Marth makes it seem like, and everyone is going to make it seem like people are just doing this because they want gyms. It's the principle ...

And Mike, I said we should try to resemble it as much as possible, not every little detail ...

But it's not fair because the Elites knew that with this new title came the fact of lesser activity ...

Plus, there's another E4 stop about to be up for grabs ...

And plus, if ya'll were on the other side, you would say what we say, no doubt ...

[Paperfairy]

They should only beable to do one. There the best of the best. Not everyone can be the best of the best. Other people who are new should beable to have a Gym.

Agreed. Gyms should be left often to other people- because the others HAVE positions. It's kinda unfair to have two positions.

-GT

Thoughts: lol, I don't even DO UPRG

[Matthew]

I think they should be allowed to do both... simply because how often do the elites get to battle as elites? How often do us, as trainers, challenge them?

They deserve the right to be a leader of a gym so they get that change to battle with a set team... it's only fair to them.

Besides... they have those elite spots because they are the best... regardless if they don't have the gym or not... the gyms give them the ability to show their skill and they are the best for those positions...

I think I've said enough for now...

[ball]

Well, actualy they shouldnt own both. Oh comon you will chalange the gym, and fail, because of elite. Well, yes, gyms shouldnt be easy, but elites are the best, and a chalanger neads to face the almighty elite only when he got the badges, not when he is trying to get them. Besides other people nead to get the chance. And well, in an elites gym, they wouldnt use all of theyr elite team, but they would use 1or 2 mons of it. And thats much in 3vs3, which is the usual number for a gym battle. So yust give gyms not to some n00b, which yust yoined, but a trainer, who has alrady been arond in urpg for some time, but not an elite, elites have the most honored posicion, and why give them the gyms too? A lot of people nead them.

[JohtoTrainer]

ball, I already said that if somebody can beat my Normal Pokemon, with their own Normal pokemon I will give them my gym. I'm not just going to give it to some noob.

[Karisuma-Teichou]

ball, I already said that if somebody can beat my Normal Pokemon, with their own Normal pokemon I will give them my gym. I'm not just going to give it to some noob.

And if someome did beat you and they already had a GYM then what?

[JohtoTrainer]

Well, then they can have my gym if they want it.

[MystiKal]

Well, actualy they shouldnt own both. Oh comon you will chalange the gym, and fail, because of elite. Well, yes, gyms shouldnt be easy, but elites are the best, and a chalanger neads to face the almighty elite only when he got the badges, not when he is trying to get them. Besides other people nead to get the chance. And well, in an elites gym, they wouldnt use all of theyr elite team, but they would use 1or 2 mons of it. And thats much in 3vs3, which is the usual number for a gym battle. So yust give gyms not to some n00b, which yust yoined, but a trainer, who has alrady been arond in urpg for some time, but not an elite, elites have the most honored posicion, and why give them the gyms too? A lot of people nead them.


The bad thing about that Ball is that most of the good trainers out their own a gym the rest are just newbs just starting.

[Marth]

ball, I already said that if somebody can beat my Normal Pokemon, with their own Normal pokemon I will give them my gym. I'm not just going to give it to some noob.

That's the same I offer to anybody that wants my gym. I'm keeping my position here.
Marth.

[Jack of Clovers]

NOTE: Please, when voting in the poll post a reply and state your reasons for sake of fairness. And this poll isn't final, it is just a case that Jack will judge eventually so I guess the winner in the poll doesn't matter much since the final word is Jack's. Adios...
it may or may not matter but that doesn't mean I won't make a note of it. and just because I make a judgement, doesn't mean the discussion ends. :wink:

yes, I do see owning both position unfair for other trainers that want to advance. one of the main reasons the Elites have their positions is how well they battle. Dux, JT, and Curtis have each shown their skills whether in gym or not.
the way I think of an Elite member is not another postions, but as an upgrade from Gym Leader. each Elite had a Gym before getting their Elite position and because they do a great job defending it, we can't take it away. Gyms can be beaten, the best Trainers occasionally have their down days. you have to keep trying. if people fly through the Gyms, then their stay with the URPG will be short. provide a challenge and they will stay to beat it.
there is no problem with owning both a gym and elite position. this case came up once before (at proboards i think) and we resolved to keep it the way it is currently.

~Jack~

[~* Esper *~]

Exactly, it's like a promotion. But if I get a promotion in a company, that doesn't mean I do my old job, someone else gets it.

I do think that someone should be deemed the position to "test" the potential Gym Leaders to see if they are decent enough to have one ...

[Unix]

cuz it is very unfair if u have 2 things..elite stays in the elite place...while gym leaders have gyms =)

[Magare]

The elites should keep their gym positions as well.

Before me, when was the last time an elite was beaten. Or even challenged?

And to some of you that say the elites should pick which one they would choose.... What if they decided to keep their gym? Who would then take the elite spot?

YOU?

[Pika57]

Both. their are only 4 elite slots anyway. More free slots mean s more noobs that pick a starter evolve it and then snag an open gym. i may be a little bit of a hypocrite because this is similar to how i got my gym(of course my Pokemon that i got for the gym i caught in a story and then evolved it) but that is bad. plus I want Marth to keep his psychic gym. I have a plan to one day defeat him.

[IT]

It's pretty much stupid to keep one person in two jobs when there's a plentiful more of people eager to get a gym leader position.

[Pika57]

It's pretty much stupid to keep one person in two jobs when there's a plentiful more of people eager to get a gym leader position.

The problem is that if your say the highest elite four member and then your forced to give up your gym. you probably won't be challenged at all. If your lucky maybe once a year. The yreally need to be allowed tohave both. Trust me

[Phoenix004]

It's pretty much stupid to keep one person in two jobs when there's a plentiful more of people eager to get a gym leader position.

No offence, but many of those eager people are probably noobs who have no clue what they are doing. I think Elite Four members should be allowed a gym simply because, as many have said, the Elite Four are rarely challenged.

[Pika57]

No offence, but many of those eager people are probably noobs who have no clue what they are doing. I think Elite Four members should be allowed a gym simply because, as many have said, the Elite Four are rarely challenged.

You are definitely right. One day i hope to be an elite four member(jeez that sounds really corny) and I realize the need for elite four members to have gyms is high.

[IT]

No offence, but many of those eager people are probably noobs who have no clue what they are doing. I think Elite Four members should be allowed a gym simply because, as many have said, the Elite Four are rarely challenged.

I don't want to start an argument or anything, but first of all, calling people noobs makes you the noob. And some new people are skilled at urpg but don't have a chance to become anything more. Even some people who aren't so new would like to have a gym, so how fair is it that some people have basically two gyms... I agree with you on that the Elite 4 members are rarely challenged, but how do you think the newer people will improve without gyms, which provide money and experience. So if the new people don't improve, the Elite 4 members won't get challeged too often.

[Pika57]

Wait I have an actually good idea! I know this sounds bizzare but what if we created more gyms? Then elite four members would be able to keep their gyms and any experienced trainers who want gyms would have some that are up for grabs.

[IT]

Wait I have an actually good idea! I know this sounds bizzare but what if we created more gyms? Then elite four members would be able to keep their gyms and any experienced trainers who want gyms would have some that are up for grabs.

I was thinking about that too but the idea will never be accepted...

[Pika57]

you never really know. Maybe if we make Battle Frontier Gyms like in the next part of the Japanese Pokemon Show. battle frontier Gyms woould be awesome(especially battle factory) i'll volunteer to work on them.

[JohtoTrainer]

...IT... Show me a truly skilled URPGer that doesn't have a gym, please. Besides Jack, he doesn't count.

[IT]

...IT... Show me a truly skilled URPGer that doesn't have a gym, please. Besides Jack, he doesn't count.

D.2, he is already a referee, has a growing variety of pokemon and I would be surprised if he didn't want a gym.

Correct me if I'm incorrect.

[Pika57]

D.2, he is already a referee, has a growing variety of pokemon and I would be surprised if he didn't want a gym.

Correct me if I'm incorrect.

I want to point out that D.2 applied for the vermillion gym. Sadly he was minutes too late and was unable to get the job. i feel bad that he didn't get the job but theres still Cinawood and Trovita gyms with slots open. in fact with another Pokemon D.2 could probably become trovitas gym leader.

[Phoenix004]

Yes D2 is a ref and has several Pokemon, and if he really wants a gym he can apply for one of the open gyms. We also have gym leader sign ups occasionally to spot inactive gym leaders, so there is nearly always a spot open. As JT said, many of the talented trainers already have gyms. Besides that, you don't need a gym to prove your worth in the URPG.

I didn't call anybody a noob, I simply implied that if we opened up more gyms then there is a good chance they would be taken by new trainers who either lack talent or the resources to be a worthy gym leader.

Finally, even if I had called somebody a noob, how would that make me a noob? I've been in the URPG for about 2 years, I've been in nearly 200 battles, and my starter has more battles than any other URPG Pokemon. Where as you IT have been in the URPG less than 3 months and have been in 9 battles. So if I were you I'd think twice before you accuse people of being noobs.

[Pika57]

i know this is off topic but i had no idea that ...IT... had only 9 battles to his name. around a month or less and I've been in about 23 regular battles.

But really I find that one experienced trainer that doesn't have a gym is not going to wreck URPG. not that I don't think that D.2s fealings aren't important(D.2 rocks!) but overall one person is not wrecking URPG by being experienced and not having a gym. (Once more no offense D.2. speaking of that I hope you don't get angry about the above comment ...IT...)

[IT]

No offence, but many of those eager people are probably noobs who have no clue what they are doing. I think Elite Four members should be allowed a gym simply because, as many have said, the Elite Four are rarely challenged.

You didn't call anyone a noob?... Doesn't look like it...

I never said that somebody was a noob, I said that if you call other people noobs, that makes you the noob. And noob and newb have big difference, if you meant newb, then I'm sorry for this argument, otherwise...

Yes, I have been in the URPG for only a little while with minor success, but first of all that doesn't make me bad at it. I have some interest in the URPG, but NBL is better for me because I already know the other participants of the NBL but not many guys from the URPG, like this is about the first time I've heard of you. But yeah, I am a newb in the URPG.

And besides, over 50% of the voters think the same as I do, so why 'pick' on me? I have my opinions and I'll stand up for them, you have yours, fine.

[Pika57]

You didn't call anyone a noob?... Doesn't look like it...

I never said that somebody was a noob, I said that if you call other people noobs, that makes you the noob. And noob and newb have big difference, if you meant newb, then I'm sorry for this argument, otherwise...

Yes, I have been in the URPG for only a little while with minor success, but first of all that doesn't make me bad at it. I have some interest in the URPG, but NBL is better for me because I already know the other participants of the NBL but not many guys from the URPG, like this is about the first time I've heard of you. But yeah, I am a newb in the URPG.

And besides, over 50% of the voters think the same as I do, so why 'pick' on me? I have my opinions and I'll stand up for them, you have yours, fine.

just to make a comment so people don't start flaming eachother. ...IT... hes picking on you because your actively disagreeing with anyone who thinks opposite you. What you are doing is definitely not a bad thing. Its just that if your in a duscusion you might wind up getting picked on(your not reeally yu know that right) because your the only person actively arguing about this on your side of the issue.

[IT]

just to make a comment so people don't start flaming eachother. ...IT... hes picking on you because your actively disagreeing with anyone who thinks opposite you. What you are doing is definitely not a bad thing. Its just that if your in a duscusion you might wind up getting picked on(your not reeally yu know that right) because your the only person actively arguing about this on your side of the issue.

Fine, I'll shut up. I made my opinion clear and won't waste my time on it anymore. Hope we meet in better conditions Pika57 and Phoenix004.

Thanks,

...IT...

[Jack of Clovers]

stick to the topic. that's what we're here to talk about. thanks.
And to some of you that say the elites should pick which one they would choose.... What if they decided to keep their gym? Who would then take the elite spot?
Yes, that's what I keep thinking about.

new gyms? anything's possible. Battle Frontier? I don't know anything about it so maybe a little info...

I do know that when Diamond/Pearl come out in a year/two years there will be new gyms.

as of right now, my decision is unchanged. I will talk with the Elites for a serious in-depth discussion and report back. feel free to keep posting.

~Jack~

[King Zark]

So I only have to have 8/24 badges to challenge the elite 4. Also being a gym leader of Maghony city and i have 3 badges does that mean when i get 4 more badges i can challenge one of the elite four?

[JohtoTrainer]

You have to have 8 badges from one region. Not just 8 badges.

Questions go in URPG Related Chat, you should have figured this out by now. :susp:

[Not Raik]

Be simple. Make it like in the game. You don't see Koga owning Fuchsia after he became an Elite. No, and it's not because he's old and wants a higher pay job, I think it was said somewhere in the game that Koga passed the Gym leader position down to his siter because he became an Elite, implying an Elite probably can't have a Gym Leader position.

Yep.

[DaRkUmBrEoN]

Be simple. Make it like in the game. You don't see Koga owning Fuchsia after he became an Elite. No, and it's not because he's old and wants a higher pay job, I think it was said somewhere in the game that Koga passed the Gym leader position down to his siter because he became an Elite, implying an Elite probably can't have a Gym Leader position.

Yep.

Yeah, but you can beat the hell out of an Elite as many times as you want. But a gymleader is only available when he/she wants it, in the games....

[Pika57]

Be simple. Make it like in the game. You don't see Koga owning Fuchsia after he became an Elite. No, and it's not because he's old and wants a higher pay job, I think it was said somewhere in the game that Koga passed the Gym leader position down to his siter because he became an Elite, implying an Elite probably can't have a Gym Leader position.

Yep.

First i want to point out that it was Kogas daughter not his sister.

Second the flaw is that URPG is not exactly like the game. If uRPG becomes more and more like the game then people will become bored with it and stick with their cartridge games.

Also making the elites give uptheir gyms which will only lead to the creation of 4 new gyms and i'm willing to bet that most of them will be taken by new players. The elites would also have nothing to do. they rarely arechallenged and the higher ranking elites raely face a trainer due to lower elites beating them

[Not Raik]

First i want to point out that it was Kogas daughter not his sister.

Second the flaw is that URPG is not exactly like the game. If uRPG becomes more and more like the game then people will become bored with it and stick with their cartridge games.

Also making the elites give uptheir gyms which will only lead to the creation of 4 new gyms and i'm willing to bet that most of them will be taken by new players. The elites would also have nothing to do. they rarely arechallenged and the higher ranking elites raely face a trainer due to lower elites beating them
My bad, haven't played the Pokemon GSC series for years.

I did not mention I wanted the URPG to be exactly like the game, I only said that aspect should be just made the way the game made it so it's simple and easy. I mean, what's this worthless few pages of discussion when we can just stick to the format the game hands to you on a plate and it doesn't even work that terribly in the first place.

The Elites are rarely challenged only because the URPGers are not active enough in challenging gyms. If there's a problem to address, it's the lack of gym activity. Also, just for comparison, you obviously spend more time fighting gym leaders than the Elite 4 in the game(Excluding the times you repeat challenging them).

And friend, it's the Elite 4. Obviously the URPGers get pumped up enough before fighting the Elite 4. If the higher ranked Elites don't get challenged often, it's only because the URPGers are not strong enough.

Reminds me. I need to go get my 8 badges. *checks Gym list*

[Tamer San]

I just have two words: Amen Raik

[Deathspector]

I agree with Tamer San, although not many people would listen to a comment by a rookie in URPG. Even so, I understand that the Elite's hardly get challenged, but so what? Raik is right when he says that the are the "Elite". They should not have to be gym leaders as well.

I mean, come to think of it, most of the gyms are hogged by Elite Four members, and no one else is allowed to get a gym. It only makes sense that the Elite Four move away from the gyms, and let weaker trainers take up gym leaders positions, and only the best of the best be the Elite Four...

[Pika57]

I agree with Tamer San, although not many people would listen to a comment by a rookie in URPG. Even so, I understand that the Elite's hardly get challenged, but so what? Raik is right when he says that the are the "Elite". They should not have to be gym leaders as well.

I mean, come to think of it, most of the gyms are hogged by Elite Four members, and no one else is allowed to get a gym. It only makes sense that the Elite Four move away from the gyms, and let weaker trainers take up gym leaders positions, and only the best of the best be the Elite Four...

Dude this case is dead.... way dead.... check the last time someone updated..

[Tamer San]

To avoide any other reviving to this closed case, I will lock the thread.

*Locked*