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Quiet Camerupt
11-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Looking for big critizisms for this team:

Aerodactyl@Focus Sash
Hasty
252 atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Rock Slide
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Used to taunt those who dare try to use anything non-attacking, then get a free stealth rock up either way because of focus sash. Rock Sldie for STAB and flinch rate, and Earthquake to hit what Rock Slide can't hit very easily.

Umbreon@Leftovers
Sassy
200 atk, 252 hp, 52 sp.def
Moveset:
Protect
Wish
Curse
Payback

A tank with threatening offensive power. Protect for scouting, stalling, and a garenteed wish to get in. Wish is for healing of course. Curse to pwoer up his lwoer defense stat and payback to knock out everything that thinks it'll baton pass or use toxic.

Tangrowth@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def
Moveset:
Power Whip
Knock Off
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

Power Whip for some STAB, Knock Off to really annoy the opponent after they've already been hit by Sleep Powder and Leech Seed. Serves as a great physical wall.

Suicune@Leftovers
Bold
252 hp, 252 def
Moveset:
Surf
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Roar

Calmcune set. Roar to see what else might be on their team and to get some damage in with Stealth Rock. Surf for STAB, Ice Beam for whatever dragons and anything else that gets destroyed by ice. Also serves as a tank for either side.

Heracross@Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 atk,252 spe
Moveset:
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Night Slash

Powerful and fast. Its a mistake to lay toxic spikes for this guys feet, as he'll then rip almost anything to shreds.

Gengar@Life Orb
Timid
252 sp.atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt
Destiny Bond

Special Attacker. Uses Destiny Bond to take at least something down and blocks any rapid spins or explosions.

I've been wondering what to do to make this team better, hoping that the harsh changing strategists will be able to make something out of it.

Lucky 1276
11-22-2008, 10:20 PM
Aerodactyl@Focus Sash
Hasty/Jolly
252 atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Rock Slide
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Used to taunt those who dare try to use anything non-attacking, then get a free stealth rock up either way because of focus sash. Rock Sldie for STAB and flinch rate, and Earthquake to hit what Rock Slide can't hit very easily.
This is fine.

Umbreon@Leftovers
Sassy
200 atk, 252 hp, 52 sp.def
Moveset:
Baton Pass
Wish
Curse
Payback

A tank with threatening offensive power. Protect for scouting, stalling, and a garenteed wish to get in. Wish is for healing of course. Curse to pwoer up his lwoer defense stat and payback to knock out everything that thinks it'll baton pass or use toxic.
You should really consider halfing sp.def and attack evs on this thing. Baton pass is a much better option than protect also.

Tangrowth@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def
Moveset:
Power Whip
Knock Off
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

Power Whip for some STAB, Knock Off to really annoy the opponent after they've already been hit by Sleep Powder and Leech Seed. Serves as a great physical wall.
this is fine

Suicune@Leftovers
Bold
252 hp, 252 def
Moveset:
Surf
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Roar

Calmcune set. Roar to see what else might be on their team and to get some damage in with Stealth Rock. Surf for STAB, Ice Beam for whatever dragons and anything else that gets destroyed by ice. Also serves as a tank for either side.
Fine.

Heracross@Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Jolly/Adamant
252 atk,252 spe
Moveset:
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Night SlashPursuit

Powerful and fast. Its a mistake to lay toxic spikes for this guys feet, as he'll then rip almost anything to shreds.
Jolly on this set is much more inferior to adamant so go with adamant. Jolly is for choice band sets.

Gengar@Expert Belt/Life orb/Focus sash
Timid
252 sp.atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt
Destiny Bond

Special Attacker. Uses Destiny Bond to take at least something down and blocks any rapid spins or explosions.
Consider life orb or focus sash. Both are pretty much better.

I've been wondering what to do to make this team better, hoping that the harsh changing strategists will be able to make something out of it.[/QUOTE]

Changes made above.

staraptor999
11-23-2008, 02:53 AM
Aerodactyl@Focus Sash
Hasty/Jolly
252 atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Rock Slide
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Used to taunt those who dare try to use anything non-attacking, then get a free stealth rock up either way because of focus sash. Rock Sldie for STAB and flinch rate, and Earthquake to hit what Rock Slide can't hit very easily.Decent

Umbreon@Leftovers
Sassy
200 atk, 252 hp, 52 sp.def/ 252 hp, 200sp.def, 52 def
Moveset:
Protect
Wish
Curse
Payback

A tank with threatening offensive power. Protect for scouting, stalling, and a garenteed wish to get in. Wish is for healing of course. Curse to pwoer up his lwoer defense stat and payback to knock out everything that thinks it'll baton pass or use toxic.Decent

Tangrowth@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def
Moveset:
Power Whip
Knock Off
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

Power Whip for some STAB, Knock Off to really annoy the opponent after they've already been hit by Sleep Powder and Leech Seed. Serves as a great physical wall.

Suicune@Leftovers
Bold
252 hp, 252 def
Moveset:
Surf
Calm Mind
Ice Beam/Nono Rest
Roar/Nono Sleep Talk

Calmcune set. Roar to see what else might be on their team and to get some damage in with Stealth Rock. Surf for STAB, Ice Beam for whatever dragons and anything else that gets destroyed by ice. Also serves as a tank for either side.Sleep Talker works much better

Heracross@Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 atk,252 spe
Moveset:
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Night Slash

Powerful and fast. Its a mistake to lay toxic spikes for this guys feet, as he'll then rip almost anything to shreds.

Gengar@Expert BeltWide lens
Timid
252 sp.atk, 252 spe
Moveset:
Shadow Ball/Hypnosis
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt
Destiny Bond/Explosion/Substitute
Much more effective.

This team violates Item clause with 3 lefties. Fix it.

shucklerules
11-23-2008, 02:58 AM
item clause is not standard so there is no reason for him to fix it.

staraptor999
11-23-2008, 03:08 AM
item clause is not standard so there is no reason for him to fix it.

So I could walk up to a battle with a rapid spinner and 5 Focus sashers?.

-Holland-
11-23-2008, 03:43 AM
Concerning Focus Sash, I really think it's an item best relegated to leads. Otherwise, you'll need weather changers and Rapid Spinners to ensure you get the use out of the item. It's too much hard work for a one-time effect. Life Orb and Expert Belt always work, so use one of those (preferably Life Orb, since Gengar will die from 99% of the hits intended to hit it, anyway, even at full health).

Umbreon, especially on a team like this, is better left to Baton Passing Curse and supporting the team with Wish, as the offensive sets are easily brought down by Scizor (and Heracross, and all the other powerful Fighting types), Platinum or not. Besides, passing the Curse boosts to Suicune could potentially make him as invincible as he was in Advance...although the drop in Speed will be unfortunate. Besides, Wish is a great move to help attackers like Heracross and Gengar who will constantly lose health.

Viva la Gofre
11-23-2008, 06:07 PM
So I could walk up to a battle with a rapid spinner and 5 Focus sashers?.
Pretty much, but that strategy would fail for a load of other reasons. As said, item clause isn't a real clause, it's just for people who throw tantrums when they are outstalled by 6 lefties users.

-Holland-
11-23-2008, 07:52 PM
I agree with the Life Orb change, I just slapped on expert belt because it was the first thing I thought of.

I still disagree with the baton passing idea. Suicune almost doesn't benefit from the curse-passing at all and maybe even more of a weakness to have lost that speed. The attack boost in useless, defense would be the only reason for it.

In general, Suicune will take more hits than he dishes out if he has Roar. The Defense boosts are just for longevity. Besides, Umbreon will almost always have to set up whenever he's out to be an effective physical wall.

Then again, you could just make the set more support-oriented by making the EVs far more defensive than offensive and keeping a moveset of Protect, Wish, Yawn, and Payback. It's pretty much the Smogon Support set, but seeing as Skarmory isn't really that much of a problem, and Umbreon doesn't necessarily need to run Taunt, the Speed EVs they give you can be reallocated to Defense to make it a more durable tank.

-Holland-
11-24-2008, 06:58 AM
I think its more opinionated. Umbreon still has the 252 hp EVs to help with defense, and because of sassy he has boosted sp.def. I usually use him to take on a special attacker or when I see a good chance to set up. He's also able to out stall and kill most neutral hitting physical attackers via wish and those atk EVs. Sometimes I even sweep a whole team with him.

Well, yeah, that's sometimes. All I'm saying is that a Steel or Fighting type (worst case scenario: Lucario, especially if he has Aura Sphere) is going to render his offensive capabilities inert, and when he has nothing to do with the boons of Curse when switching out, it'll just feel like a wasted effort. All I'm really saying is that the usefulness of tanks and supporters shouldn't be situational that often; your team should be able to rely on them to work.

staraptor999
11-25-2008, 03:28 AM
Yes you could. They get destroyed by a stealth rocker\spiker\toxic spiker\sandstorm\hail and a ghost anyway.

I also find your "corrections" meaningless and not worth switching to. Hypnosis instead of shadow ball? There goes half my coverage and STAB. With wide lens its only 77% chance. I do not like having 2 moves with only 77%. I do not find substitute or explosion very effective. I still have a 23% chance of missing with hypnosis which destroys the whole substitute stratedgy. Also, why explosion when I have no attack EVs and destiny bond is a garantee take down? Explosion also can't hit other ghosts.

I also find roar and ice beam being much more useful than a rest\sleep talk set. Especially since I have stealth rock to compliment it and if I have no Ice Beam I lost my OHKO on dragons.

I will not change my leftovers tanks as item clause is not standard.

Accidental double post.

Destiny bond is hardly effective as most of gengar's sweepers are faster than him. If it weren't for Explosion Blissey would totally stop Gengar then and there. Sleep Talker suicune is a classic tank, which is usually underestimated. HP Fighting also easily replaces FB because Most rock pokemon are weak on Sp.Def. Hypnosis and substitute have always been working for me since I've started. Also since Garchomp has disapeared Ice beam has lessened on Dragons. The only main dragons to worry about are Dragonite and Salamence which are easily Revenge killed.

Shadow_Blaze
11-25-2008, 03:41 AM
Jolly is usually prefered on suicide lead aero, but if you dont have it u dont have it, hasty will work fine seeing as the sash is ment to activate and thus justifying hasty

Dont listen to lucky...Protect is fine on umbreon, your team is abit to fast to get those speed drops from curse, one problem I have is that you are diminishing your tanking abilities by using all those attack EVs, just use 200 Spdef and 52 Defence...much more effective for surviving

Tangrowth is standard

just use your own set, CroCune is "ok" but kinda outdated, srry Staraptor


Herra is standard,

Wide Lens, Life Orb, and expert belt are fine for gengar

pretty standard team...but I cant complain, nice team

-Holland-
11-25-2008, 07:55 AM
I see what you mean. I was thinking of replacing umbreon with dusknoir and gengar with Alakazam or Sceptile.

Well, remember, Umbreon is still an excellent asset if not only for Wish Passing. Besides, when Heracross and Gengar resist the Bug and Fighting moves that will be thrown at him left and right, Umbreon's one of the better choices to supply Wish support for this team, especially when both of them will constantly be losing health. If you go with Dusknoir, this asset completely goes away. Of course, if you switch out Gengar for Alakazam, then it may just be a different story.

Don't change for Sceptile, though. Gengar and Alakazam are two of the most effective special cleaners in OU, if not the definitive ones (along with Azelf, of course).

shucklerules
11-25-2008, 02:05 PM
So I could walk up to a battle with a rapid spinner and 5 Focus sashers?.

yes, the most common non standard rule,but is not standard.