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Maveric
01-20-2009, 02:11 AM
Hey, I'm new, both to the "serious" Pokemon meta-game and to the forum. Everyone seems nice here, thought this might be a good place to start.

Intros out of the way, I need some help from you veterans. I am building an OU team for semi serious tournaments at my local clubs and I am stuck, very stuck. Well, so far I have made a team of three:

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Speed Boost
Jolly: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
~Substitute
~Swords Dance
~Aerial Ace
~Batton Pass

Marowak @ Thick Club
Rock Head
Jolly: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Brick Break
~Double Edge

Scizor @ Life Orb
Technician
Adamant: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
~X-Scissor
~Iron Head
~Pursuit
~Batton Pass

My goal is to keep the boosts passing, as long as Ninjask can get off his speed boosts and a Swords Dance I should be O.K...Until I pass to Marowak...or get flinched...or statused. So, my question is where do I go from here? Feel free to say "They all suck, here's a better team." I am here to learn. Sorry for the wall of text.

P.S

I have some favs I would love incorporated into the team if possible.
Kingdra, Marowak, Scizor, Empoleon, Alakazam (Genger is better I know).

Verystrait42
01-20-2009, 02:27 AM
That scizor is balls. Go to www.smogon.com for better movesets. And i would suggest LO kingdra as a pass target. Or luvdisc. Any team can use M0ar Luvdisc.

Maveric
01-20-2009, 02:58 AM
I guess the Scizor could be better.

I just thought, X-Scissor and Iron Head where good STAB's (don't have access to Bullet Punch) and Pursuit because there are a lot of Poke's that will want to get the hell put of there when Scizor switches in, that coupled with Technician makes it a good move. Oh and BP for support.

Dark Turtwig
01-20-2009, 03:16 AM
I guess the Scizor could be better.

I just thought, X-Scissor and Iron Head where good STAB's (don't have access to Bullet Punch) and Pursuit because there are a lot of Poke's that will want to get the hell put of there when Scizor switches in, that coupled with Technician makes it a good move. Oh and BP for support.

Well, if you don't have access to BP, at LEAST give it Quick Attack. Over X-scizor, I'd give it U-turn. Slightly less power, but it does allow you to switch out. Good for scouting.

Maveric
01-20-2009, 04:21 AM
It needs a priority move aye? Dang, I was liking the Baton Pass idea.

Oh well.

Dark Turtwig
01-20-2009, 04:37 AM
It needs a priority move aye? Dang, I was liking the Baton Pass idea.

Oh well.

Well, you could use a Baton Pass variant, but then you wouldn't need Ninjask as much. If you want a Sweeping Scizor, then put Quick Attack on it. If you want defensive BP scizor, put Swords Dance and Agility on it.

Maveric
01-20-2009, 04:54 AM
Well, I really only have Ninjask because Marowak's speed is so terrible, anything faster then a snail will nail him. I could drop them both and set up my Scizor better, but I really love Marowak.

Ugh, this is so much harder then my old blissful days of non EV training and teams made up of whatever I felt like, lol.

Maveric
01-20-2009, 08:41 AM
- !! -

I just caught my first ever shiny! A male Meditite! Hmmm, I hear Medicham is good with Pure Power.

Elrond
01-20-2009, 06:37 PM
If you're new to the metagame, I would suggest not going with a BP team. They require quite a bit of prediction, sometimes even when it's just a Ninjask passing speed to one other 'mon. If you don't have access to Bullet Punch... you should get it.

I noticed that you wanted to work Empoleon into your team if possible. It can sweep amazingly, but you have to use it correctly.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Torrent
12 HP / 232 Speed / 252 Sp. Atk / 12 Sp. Def
- Substitute
- Agility
- Ice Beam
- Surf

It works in one of two ways. The first is the most fun.

1) Switch it into something that can't hurt it. Agility on the switch, then Sub down to Petaya boost and sweep.

2) Switch in for a revenge kill on something it outspeeds (Hippowdon comes to mind). Sub down, kill.

It does require quite a bit of support, though. Toxic Spikes and Sandstorm are a big help, and Stealth Rock can't hurt. You also have to make sure you get any other waters out of the way first, or they'll come in and stop you cold.

However, if you do like this idea you've got to get familiar with the metagame on Shoddy, as with the Baton Pass team, or anything else, really. (Btw, I can vouch for this set, as I've used it extensively).

As for Kingdra, he's basically the reason that Rain teams are viable. Electrode support with Rain and a Wet Rock, and Kingdra hits hard.

Smogon Kingdra Analysis (http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kingdra)

^^Read that^^ Empoleon would also work well on a Rain team, though Marowak and Scizor would not like it at all.

Poke_Sakif
01-20-2009, 08:27 PM
One thing haunting about a Baton Pas chain is that there are a lot of pseudo-hazers (Pokemon with Roar/Whirlwind) that can totally mess up your strategy. However, one BPasser is good enough. (I think Ninjas should since he has Speed Boost and Swords Dance). So keep Ninjask's moveset. Its pretty good. Baton Passing to Marowak make him deadly.


Alakazam (Trick Specs) @ Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 6 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Speed
- Trick
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Alakazam is indeed a great Pokemon to have in your team.

Highest Sp. Atk out of all Non-Legendary Pokemon (Base 135) even surpassing Latios. With Choice Specs, it can become the ultimate sweeper, having a Special Attack boost of 50%. Psychic can OHKO Infernape. Focus Blast can OHKO Tyranitar and Shadow Ball works great against Gengar.

However, if you want, you can Trick and switch items with your opponent giving him a restriction to only one move. Make sure however, it isn't a special sweeper as well.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
EVs: 176 HP / 100 Atk / 176 SpD / 56 Spe
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Roost
- Quick Attack

This is a great set I got from smogon. Persuit gets a base power of 60 with Technician and if the opponent is switching out, Persuit's power is 80. Roost is great for healing since Life Orb eats health. Quick Attack is great in place of Bullet Punch and U-Turn is great for avoiding nasty Fire-types.

Maveric
01-21-2009, 01:05 AM
Thank you both for the great movesets. I have my Empoleon EV'd almost exactly like that (nothing one or two berries won't fix) and I have been looking for a move to replace the horrible Steel type special attack...Forgets its name.

My problem is all the people at my club go on about "themes" and "Rain Dance/Sandstorm teams" etc. and I just can't stick to a type or theme, I love so many varying Poke's.

But thanks again for the movesets. I have two team building programs open as we speak, lol.

EDIT:

I just heard Marowak can roll with Belly Drum, anyone tried that out? Sounds...Interesting.

Elrond
01-21-2009, 04:34 PM
Thank you both for the great movesets. I have my Empoleon EV'd almost exactly like that (nothing one or two berries won't fix) and I have been looking for a move to replace the horrible Steel type special attack...Forgets its name.

Flash Cannon.

My problem is all the people at my club go on about "themes" and "Rain Dance/Sandstorm teams" etc. and I just can't stick to a type or theme, I love so many varying Poke's.

You don't necessarily have to have a theme. You should, however, have a pretty good concept that you're building your team around. For example, the team I currently use the most on Shoddy is entirely built around setting up my Empoleon (the same one I showed you) for a sweep, and I've taken into account on my team the things I mentioned earlier. A BP team is another example of team synergy.

EDIT:

I just heard Marowak can roll with Belly Drum, anyone tried that out? Sounds...Interesting.

The main reason I would say nay to this idea is very similar to the main problem that SubPetaya Empoleon faces. When you use Belly Drum, you lose half of your HP. For some Pokemon, this may have a smaller effect than others, but on a Pokemon like Marowak, with amazingly exploitable weaknesses, you'll find that he gets forced out of play as soon as he gets his huge attack boost. Empoleon, similarly, can be forced out of play by a bulky water Pokemon, after already using its berry and consigning itself to less than a quarter of its health. This all goes back to that team synergy idea. Passing Speed is one way to alleviate Marowak's problem. You'd also have to make sure you can get rid of most of his threats before you let your opponent know what he has up his sleeve (preferably even before it enters play). It's a strategy that might work for a very experienced player (i.e. not me), but I would stick to something a little less risky.

Maveric
01-22-2009, 04:29 AM
How do you set up your Empoleon if you wouldn't mind explaining please?

I have heard you should have two physical sweepers and two special sweepers, a wall and a support.
So, that would leave me with both my physical slots taken up by Scizor and Marrowak, both are great, but they are not a very good combo are they?

As 'Jask will be 100% support, how's this set you rekon?

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Speed Boost
Jolly: 252 HP / 73 Def / 100 SpD / 80 Spe
~Substitute
~Swords Dance
~Protect
~Batton Pass

Thanks for helping me out, it is really appreciated.

P.S

Sorry to keep editing my post, I know it is annoying, but I have had a great idea.
What if you had a rain support Kingdra and Empoleon, that would give them both huge speed advances and help with Empoleon's luck luster speed.
Then again, do you need it with Substitute?

So you would go:

Kingdra x Rain Dance + Ninjask x 1-2 turns + BP to Empoleon = Sweep with amazing type coverage, a solid sub and great resistances.

Elrond
01-22-2009, 03:54 PM
To set up for Empoleon, you need to get anything that can stop it out of the way. This includes a number of Scarfed Pokemon (though some won't be a threat if you manage to get an Agility in). You should have a Pokemon or two with Explosion to quickly get rid of bulky waters and especially Blissey. Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Sandstorm are ideal to grind away at the opponent as well.

Empoleon does not get a speed boost in rain, as it doesn't have the Swift Swim ability. However, Surf does get a big boost. Sub is a must, because otherwise a lot of slower Pokemon would be able to take Empoleon out before he could get down to Petaya range. If you pass speed, you may not need to set up with Agility, but you should still have it just in case.