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Tory vs Meaty II
03-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Do you think that Garchomp should stay an über for Pokemon Competitive Battling? Lets take a vote...

Game Over
03-25-2009, 11:36 PM
Garchomp is good, but not unbeatable.

Psychedelic Shroomish
03-25-2009, 11:45 PM
Yes, it should.

Base stats: 108/130/95/80/85/102

that is pretty darn good!!! It also has the ability Sand Veil which turns 100% acc Ice Beams and stuff into 80% acc pieces of crap!!!!! It also is the fastest non uber dragon and has a massive attack stat combined with access to Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake and Outrage (which gets amazing type coverage). Combine that with a resistance to Stealth Rock and an immunity to Thunder Wave and you have uber material right thar :redface:

Professor Geoffrey
03-26-2009, 12:35 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.

Yoda55
03-26-2009, 12:45 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.

I would like to see you get raped by an Arceus! Anyways to me they are easy to be defeated. Go Draginite! (with choice scarf) use Ice Beam! Garchomp fainted:neutral: Preety easy to kill if you asked me.

Volcanflame
03-26-2009, 12:45 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.
I believe the thread's talking about Garchomp.

I always thought that uber is legendary-exclusive :x

I disapprove of Garchomp being in uber-tier D:

-Volcan-

Psychedelic Shroomish
03-26-2009, 12:50 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.
Please don't bother posting that kind of stuff unless you've actually had some experience competitive battling. An uber by definition is a pokemon that displays characteristics of a either a sweeper that has no counters and can independently sweep whole teams on its own, a supporter that can lay down spikes/sr/TSpikes/screens 100% of the time and allow other key pokemon to sweep, or a defensive pokemon that can stall out a majority of the metagame. Garchomp fit the sweeper category, as the only true counter it had that was viable in OU is Bronzong but even it is 2HKOd by +2 LO Outrage and takes huge damage from Fire Blasts/Fire Fang.

TeirusuFX
03-26-2009, 01:09 AM
The answer is no, end of story

♪テイルス♪
♫Teirusu♫

The Jr Trainer
03-26-2009, 01:11 AM
I would like to see you get raped by an Arceus! Anyways to me they are easy to be defeated. Go Draginite! (with choice scarf) use Ice Beam! Garchomp fainted:neutral: Preety easy to kill if you asked me.

Hello, Ice Beam.

I would like you to meet Mr. Yache Berry.

Dark Turtwig
03-26-2009, 01:13 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.

Ha, this made me literally lol. The Uber pokemon clause is to make littler kids that use Darkrais and stuff unable to use them in competitive battles, because they are straight up unfair. I'm not deliberately trying to be rude, so please don't turn this into a debate, but if you do not participate in competitive battling you have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyway, my opinion:
Yes, I think it was a good decision to bump it up to the uber tier for the OU environment, but in ubers, it kinda sucks. I mean, in OU it had a resistance to Stealth rock, the most common entry hazard, it had access to two of some of the most powerful STAB moves in the game, Outrage and Earthquake, AND had acess to Swords Dance.
On top of that, Chomp has a very unique speed tier, *looks at Adrenaline's post* enough to outspeed all of the base 100's by a few points, along with his monstrous attack stat. It forced so many switches that it was quite easy to pull of a Swords Dance, and unlike pokemon such as Lucario or Scizor, he's incredibly bulky for a sweeper. (108 base HP, 95 base defense, come on) So, even if the opponent didn't switch, he could still pull off and SD. And with a Yache Berry, he can stick around even longer.

Nitro
03-26-2009, 01:18 AM
I don't want Garchomp to be uber, I want to use it in OU play! D'X

Yoda55
03-26-2009, 01:29 AM
Hello, Ice Beam.

I would like you to meet Mr. Yache Berry.

That only takes up one blow! It would stilll do more then half.

Soda
03-26-2009, 01:40 AM
That only takes up one blow! It would stilll do more then half.

Depends. :P

If it was faster it could survive and like Swords Dance and then KO! Or something. XD

Pickleboy
03-26-2009, 01:52 AM
Uh, no. Sorry - don't even get the point of having the uber Pokémon clause. I think it's rather worthless. If people want to use a Groudon against you, who says it's not fair? All Pokémon have their weaknesses (excluding Spiritomb and Sableye, which aren't legendary), so it's pretty much their loss if the person holding the legendary Pokémon comes out with a loss.

I, one of the few, completely agree with you through my own experiences, though this is quite off topic, and for your best interest, try not to say that kind of stuff here. Tier list fans are pretty stubborn and will flame you and shoot off spuedo-intellegent remarks pretty bad.
On topic, I don't care. If he's an "Uber", at least I won't be seeing his god-ugly face that much (though I don't play with rules, so I guess it wouldn't matter). Anyone who uses Garchomp should be shot for allowing themselves to succumb to bad taste.

Flammenwerfer
03-26-2009, 02:16 AM
Meh, doesn't really matter.

Garchomp is Garchomp. Raichu is Raichu. Delicious Cake is...Delicious Cake.

If its an Uber, than theres a reason for it. If its not, then it can't knock out your whole team before you can say "cherry pie".

Max-Attack
03-26-2009, 02:36 AM
I agree with it being uber, but I never did a lot of competitive and now I do even less, so I would probably fall more into the "I don't care" category.

Keion
03-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Garchomp should not be an uber. Its easy to kill with Ice Beam.

Starkipraggy
03-26-2009, 02:19 PM
I, one of the few, completely agree with you through my own experiences, though this is quite off topic, and for your best interest, try not to say that kind of stuff here. Tier list fans are pretty stubborn and will flame you and shoot off spuedo-intellegent remarks pretty bad.
On topic, I don't care. If he's an "Uber", at least I won't be seeing his god-ugly face that much (though I don't play with rules, so I guess it wouldn't matter). Anyone who uses Garchomp should be shot for allowing themselves to succumb to bad taste.
Hey, I think Chomp is pretty cool-looking. It's better than Torterra at any rate.

Chomp might not be uber with Mence around, since they might end up as mutual counters or something. :x So I guess a test is in order. But in D/P, it's definitely too broken to stay in OU.

Mewchirio
03-26-2009, 05:34 PM
I think it should, it's a pseudo-legendary; I think. There's Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross and now Garchomp and Rotom.

~Mewchirio~

Fire Away
03-26-2009, 05:52 PM
I think it should, it's a pseudo-legendary; I think. There's Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross and now Garchomp and Rotom.

~Mewchirio~

Rotom in the same category was Tyranitar and Metagross? :x

I voted yes. Yache Berry makes me cry.

Mewchirio
03-26-2009, 05:59 PM
Rotom in the same category was Tyranitar and Metagross? :x

I voted yes. Yache Berry makes me cry.
It's true, aparently they're both pseudo's. Doesn't mean they have the same amount of power though!

~Mewchirio~

Ultima Boss
03-26-2009, 06:38 PM
Yes, it should.

Base stats: 108/130/95/80/85/102

that is pretty darn good!!! It also has the ability Sand Veil which turns 100% acc Ice Beams and stuff into 80% acc pieces of crap!!!!! It also is the fastest non uber dragon and has a massive attack stat combined with access to Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake and Outrage (which gets amazing type coverage). Combine that with a resistance to Stealth Rock and an immunity to Thunder Wave and you have uber material right thar :redface:
That summarizes my thoughts of Garchomp.

I also would like to point out that Platinum alone will most likely change the metagame (i.e. easy access to Superpower and Outrage).

Dark Turtwig
03-26-2009, 06:49 PM
Garchomp should not be an uber. Its easy to kill with Ice Beam.

This irks me right here.
Even though it has already been explained, I am going to explain it again, so posts like this don't appear anymore.
There is this item called a Yache Berry. It makes it so Ice attacks are only 2x super effective as to 4x. Now, take a look at his stats:
HP: 108
Attack: 130
Defense: 95
Sp. Atk: 80
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 102

Now, he's pretty bulky, for a sweeper at least. Now, take a look at some damage calculations that I ran for some common ice attacks, after the Yache Berry halves the damage:

Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 56.145%-66.06% (2HKO)

Standard 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Speed Zapdos HP Ice vs. 6 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 39.66-46.79%

Standard Mixed Swampert (52 SpA EV's, neutral nature) Ice Beam vs. 6 HP 0 SpD Garchomp: 41.20%- 48.46%

Now, on the damage calculator I was using, they did not have Yache Berry as an item, so I had to just divide the damage by 2. So, if it is off, please correct me.
So, those are about the most common sources of Ice Beam in todays metagame (I know, there are many carriers of Ice Punch, these are just some of the more common pokemon. Feel free to run your own calcs.), and with a Yache Berry they only 2HKO. Now, is that not broken? Yes, it is, but if you still don't think so, here are some damage calulations on the same pokemon using the ice attack, but Garchomp attacking them, with a Swords Dance up.

Garchomp's +2 Fire Fang vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 246.27% - 289.75% (Ouch.)
This scenario is assuming Mamoswine switched in as Garchomp swords danced as Mamoswine switched in. Here's before a swords dance: 124.22% - 146.27% (still an easy OHKO)

Garchomp's +2 Outrage vs. 240 HP 216 Def Relaxed Swampert: 85.79% - 100.75% (OHKO with Stealth Rock most of the time.)

Garchomp's +2 Outrage vs. 252 HP 220 Defense Zapdos: 92.45% - 108.85% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)

So as you can see, Garchomp is very destructive once he gets a swords dance up. Swampert is just about the most Defensive pokemon in teh game and is just about OHKO'd by a +2 outrage.
That only takes up one blow! It would stilll do more then half.

Check out the calcs mister. :p

I would like to see you get raped by an Arceus! Anyways to me they are easy to be defeated. Go Draginite! (with choice scarf) use Ice Beam! Garchomp fainted:neutral: Preety easy to kill if you asked me.
Acually, no.
Dragonite uses Ice Beam! The Yache Berry weakened Ice Beam's power! *garchomp is left at ~40% health*
Garchomp uses Outrage! Dragonite fainted! GG.
It's not that Garchomp itself is uber, it's just too good for OU metagame, that is what I'm really trying to get across here.

Stubby Boardman
03-26-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't think it is an uber and it shouldn't be treated as one. I am all up to ideas on limiting items and such you can use though

Ranma
03-26-2009, 08:17 PM
No. I don't play anymore but I'm sad because one of my only 9 ev trained pokemon is illegal for OU play. :(

Tory vs Meaty II
03-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Here is another counter for Garchomp, probably the best one:
Spike Cannon and Icicle Spear take advantage of it, but both have little overall utility. Icicle Spear does however make Cloyster one of the best Garchomp counters you can find. Thanks to Icicle Spear hitting five times, you can break its Yache Berry protection with the first hit, while the remaining four can finish it off. You can also break through Garchomp's Substitute, also killing it in a single turn.

Ajarr
03-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Me introducing Garchomp to Ice Beam.

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Hits Garchomp, instant KO.*

"What was that for Ice Beam?"

Sight of the Stars
03-26-2009, 10:53 PM
I don't think it should be an uber. Ice Beam/Blizzard/lots of Ice Balls could probably OHKO it easily.

Soda
03-26-2009, 11:04 PM
You guys really need to read! It's like you didn't even see the previous posts besides yours!

I don't think it should be an uber. Ice Beam/Blizzard/lots of Ice Balls could probably OHKO it easily.

DID YOU SEE ALL THE YACHE BERRY POSTS? It halves Ice Damage and all Garchomp is pretty bulky as is, so it would survive be able to do something back. Also no one is gonna use Ice Ball against Garchomp. Walrein is UU, iirc.

Me introducing Garchomp to Ice Beam.

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Hits Garchomp, instant KO.*

"What was that for Ice Beam?"

DID YOU SEE ALL THE YACHE BERRY POSTS? Okay I think the best Ice Beam'r against Chomp would be like Starmie lol. Because if it learns Brick Break it can take care of a lot of the Ice monsters like Weavile, or Cloyster. >.> Idk if it learns it or if it can make space for it, though. :P

Here is another counter for Garchomp, probably the best one:

Okay, fair enough. But seriously wut else would you use Cloyster for? Spikes or something? Just the fact that you would put a Cloyster on your OU team just to counter Garchomp clearly means it is reaching a uber-like status. And I never followed competetive battling but Im pretty sure that's one of the reasons it was made Uber....

spartan117
03-26-2009, 11:38 PM
Ugh I dont believe in these Ubers. Its just another excuse of not to use a Pokemon. I understand legendaries but making every pokemon with a little higher stat is just stupid and takes out the fun of battling.

Tory vs Meaty II
03-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Okay, fair enough. But seriously wut else would you use Cloyster for? Spikes or something? Just the fact that you would put a Cloyster on your OU team just to counter Garchomp clearly means it is reaching a uber-like status. And I never followed competetive battling but Im pretty sure that's one of the reasons it was made Uber....

What else you can use Cloyster for? What the ****. That is a good ass Pokemon to use for Ice Shard with Choice Band to destroy many Sweepers like Alakazam, Donphan, Salamence,
Dragonite, ect., for some quick switching. Have you even use a Cloyster yourself before? Look at this:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
INDIA sent out Basil (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Tory vs. Meaty II sent out Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Basil used Fire Blast.
Raikou lost 48% of its health.
Raikou was burned!
Raikou's leftovers restored its health a little!
Raikou restored 6% of its health.
Raikou was hurt by its burn!
Raikou lost 12% of its health.
---
Raikou used Substitute.
Raikou lost 25% of its health.
Raikou made a substitute!
Basil used Fire Blast.
The substitute took damage for Raikou!
Raikou's substitute faded!
Raikou's leftovers restored its health a little!
Raikou restored 6% of its health.
Raikou was hurt by its burn!
Raikou lost 12% of its health.
---
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Basil lost 68% of its health.
Basil used Fire Blast.
Raikou lost 15% of its health.
Tory vs. Meaty II's Raikou fainted.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
INDIA switched in Magnis (lvl 100 Metagross).
Lucario used Endure.
Lucario braced itself!
---
Lucario used Swords Dance.
Lucario's attack was sharply raised.
Magnis used Agility.
Magnis's speed was sharply raised.
---
Lucario used Endure.
Lucario braced itself!
Magnis used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Lucario lost 100% of its health.
Lucario endured the hit!
Lucario's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Lucario used Reversal.
Magnis lost 100% of its health.
INDIA's Magnis fainted.
---
INDIA switched in Nero (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Nero used Extremespeed.
It's not very effective...
Lucario lost 0% of its health.
Tory vs. Meaty II's Lucario fainted.
Nero lost 10% of its health.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
INDIA switched in Constanze (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Azelf used Nasty Plot.
Azelf's special attack was sharply raised.
---
Azelf used Psychic.
Constanze lost 71% of its health.
Azelf lost 10% of its health.
Constanze used Thunder Wave.
Azelf is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
---
Constanze used Air Slash.
Azelf lost 49% of its health.
Azelf flinched!
---
Constanze used Air Slash.
Azelf lost 41% of its health.
Tory vs. Meaty II's Azelf fainted.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Constanze used Nasty Plot.
Constanze's special attack was sharply raised.
Snorlax used Curse.
Snorlax's speed was lowered.
Snorlax's attack was raised.
Snorlax's defence was raised.
---
Constanze used Air Slash.
Snorlax lost 27% of its health.
Snorlax flinched!
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
Constanze used Nasty Plot.
Constanze's special attack was sharply raised.
Snorlax used Body Slam.
Constanze lost 29% of its health.
INDIA's Constanze fainted.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
INDIA switched in Nero (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Nero used Close Combat.
It's super effective!
Snorlax lost 83% of its health.
Nero's defence was lowered.
Nero's special defence was lowered.
Nero lost 10% of its health.
Snorlax used Curse.
Snorlax's speed was lowered.
Snorlax's attack was raised.
Snorlax's defence was raised.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
Nero used Crunch.
Pinsir lost 47% of its health.
Nero lost 10% of its health.
---
Nero used Extremespeed.
Pinsir lost 45% of its health.
Nero lost 10% of its health.
Pinsir used Close Combat.
It's super effective!
Nero lost 60% of its health.
INDIA's Nero fainted.
Pinsir's defence was lowered.
Pinsir's special defence was lowered.
---
INDIA switched in Claudius (lvl 100 Rotom-w).
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Claudius used Discharge.
Snorlax lost 8% of its health.
Tory vs. Meaty II's Snorlax fainted.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
Claudius lost 72% of its health.
Claudius used Discharge.
Pinsir lost 8% of its health.
Tory vs. Meaty II's Pinsir fainted.
---
Tory vs. Meaty II switched in Cloyster (lvl 100 Cloyster ?).
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
Claudius lost 28% of its health.
INDIA's Claudius fainted.
---
INDIA switched in Basil (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
It's not very effective...
Basil lost 21% of its health.
Basil used Encore.
Cloyster got an encore!
---
INDIA switched in Augustus (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
Augustus lost 34% of its health.
Augustus's leftovers restored its health a little!
Augustus restored 6% of its health.
---
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
Augustus lost 35% of its health.
Augustus used Dragon Dance.
Augustus's attack was raised.
Augustus's speed was raised.
Augustus's leftovers restored its health a little!
Augustus restored 6% of its health.
---
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
Augustus lost 34% of its health.
Augustus used Outrage.
Augustus went on a rampage!
Cloyster lost 52% of its health.
Augustus's leftovers restored its health a little!
Augustus restored 6% of its health.
---
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
Augustus lost 16% of its health.
INDIA's Augustus fainted.
---
INDIA switched in Basil (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Cloyster used Ice Shard.
It's not very effective...
Basil lost 12% of its health.
INDIA's Basil fainted.
Tory vs. Meaty II wins!
INDIA has left the room.
Tory vs. Meaty II: gg

You can use it for Spikes and its massive defense. Look at Ludicolo, it is in UU, and it sweeps many OU Pokemon.

Psychedelic Shroomish
03-26-2009, 11:48 PM
Okay, fair enough. But seriously wut else would you use Cloyster for? Spikes or something? Just the fact that you would put a Cloyster on your OU team just to counter Garchomp clearly means it is reaching a uber-like status. And I never followed competetive battling but Im pretty sure that's one of the reasons it was made Uber....
That's exactly why it was made uber. Over centralization combined with the fact that every team had to have 2-3 counters for Garchomp or they would be swept by it...

Dark Turtwig
03-27-2009, 12:26 AM
Me introducing Garchomp to Ice Beam.

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Hits Garchomp, instant KO.*

"What was that for Ice Beam?"
No... instant KO? I'm sorry. You obviously have never faced a Garchomp that isn't Cynthia's. :X
I don't think it should be an uber. Ice Beam/Blizzard/lots of Ice Balls could probably OHKO it easily.

Please take a look at my post that was like 3 above yours. n__n
EDIT: Adrenaline, I think that clears it up completely, even better than my post. That is really the sole reason.

Max-Attack
03-27-2009, 12:38 AM
lots of Ice Balls could probably OHKO it easily.
That is a paradox, my friend.


Ugh I dont believe in these Ubers. Its just another excuse of not to use a Pokemon. I understand legendaries but making every pokemon with a little higher stat is just stupid and takes out the fun of battling.

This thread is to discuss competitive battling, where separation into tiers is necessary to make the game fair. You can use Garchomp and Palkia and Mewtwo in your in-game team and nobody could care less.

Starkipraggy
03-27-2009, 12:38 AM
Ugh I dont believe in these Ubers. Its just another excuse of not to use a Pokemon. I understand legendaries but making every pokemon with a little higher stat is just stupid and takes out the fun of battling.
Garchomp has the same amount of stats as Dragonite, Salamence, Metagross. It's broken because it has all the stats in the right place. :/

Do you realise that Cloyster is not going to survive switching in into Outrage? After one DD, Dragonite's Outrage does a little less than 42%. Now, Garchomp uses SWORDS DANCE, so its attack is x2 instead of x1.5 like Dragon Dancers. Garchomp has about 4 points less attack, but Swords Dance more than makes up for it. Cloyster takes 50% damage. Next turn, if Cloyster uses Icicle Spear, it's outsped and killed. Use Ice Shard? Garchomp laughs off the damage and kills it off.

And there's also the problem of Sand Veil in Sandstorm. 20% chance of your attack missing. That's 1 in 5, which is A LOT. Imagine your crucial Ice Beam missing, then Garchomp killing your Starmie. It has happened to way too many people. Yeah.

Black Hawk
03-27-2009, 12:48 AM
1) Garchomp is Über. Über with an Ümlaut.

2) Gah, I swore to leave alone competitive but the sheer quantity of idiocy in this thread is soooo fail @_@

I would like to see you get raped by an Arceus! Anyways to me they are easy to be defeated. Go Draginite! (with choice scarf) use Ice Beam! Garchomp fainted:neutral: Preety easy to kill if you asked me.

So many things...where shall I start? Btw, you spelled Dragonite wrong lol

Hello Arceus, you aren't allowed in competitive OR Übers because you can't be legitly obtained in the games :surp:

Hey Dragonite. Meet my friend Yache Berry. Now meet my Bff SD Outrage. Sorry to see you go so soon :cry:

Garchomp should not be an uber. Its easy to kill with Ice Beam.

Easy to kill with ice beam if your mon is faster, Chomp's yache is gone, and if it is below 50%

Me introducing Garchomp to Ice Beam.

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Hits Garchomp, instant KO.*

"What was that for Ice Beam?"

Let me correct that for you. Corrections:

Ajarr introducing Garchomp to Ice Beam.

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Hits Garchomp, activates Yache Berry. Garchomp uses Outrage. KO!*

"What was that for Chomp being killed by Ice Beam?"

lets try another scenario...

"Garchomp, Ice Beam. Ice Beam, Garchomp."

*Misses Garchomp. Sand Veil makes 100% accuracy attacks miss like crazy because the hax god favors his son Garchomp. Garchomp uses Outrage. KO!*

"What was that for Chomp being killed by Ice Beam?"

I don't think it should be an uber. Ice Beam/Blizzard/lots of Ice Balls could probably OHKO it easily.

Not before Garchomp OHKOs you.

Ugh I dont believe in these Ubers. Its just another excuse of not to use a Pokemon. I understand legendaries but making every pokemon with a little higher stat is just stupid and takes out the fun of battling.

Garchomp has ridiculously high stats. Not just "a little higher". What takes the fun out of battling is when half of my team has to be designed to take out a Garchomp while the other three members can't handle the rest of a team.

To cap it all off, Adrenaline is right. Do not argue with him because he most likely has more experience than any of you opposers. And another thing, seems like everyone opposed either doesn't care or isn't very experienced.

Pickleboy
03-27-2009, 04:53 AM
Wow, you guys are giving WAY too much thought on this. Has it ever occured to you that maybe straight-out attackingisn't the ONLY way to deal with Mr.ImsouglyIcanhardlystandit? You know, it never occurs to anyone that you can use status afflictions as well...

"Uuuuh! But Garchomp is so fast and powerful, he'd kill you before you could do anything because he's Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuber! Ur a n00b!!11!!1"

Garchomp only becomes a slightly big threat after he uses Dragon Dance/Swords Dance. If you can find a way to turn that power against him, then you're pretty set. It should also be noted that no one ever puts any EP into Garchomp's stats that aren't Speed and Attack. So just wail on him with other moves that aren't Ice Beam.

"Uuuuuh! But no one uses those kinds of moves in competetive battling because Garchomp's an Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuber, n00b!!11!!1!"

Then stop complaining. I, myself, have done numurous battles facing Garchomp, and Ice Beam was not the only way I had defeated him. In fact, I worry more about facing Abomasnow than Garchomp, and my team was built without Garchomp's uglier-than-sin face in my head, and I'm sure me having to make a few move changes to fight off Abomasnow isn't going to bump it up to any higher of a tier (not that tiers matter anyway)

"Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh! But Garchomp's base stats are super high! He's Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuber!!11!!1!1!!!"

Yeah, they're high... so what? If you truely want to be good in this game, you'll learn to deal with it, as well as the other many "Ubers" this game has. I have said this before and have been flamed for it, but tier list users are for losers who want to cut down other's abilities so that they can have what they believe is called a "fair match".

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 01:24 PM
Everyone here thinks that Garchomp is going to have a Yache Berry. It could have a Choice Scarf, or something else to. Like I had a strategy to give my Salemence a choice scarf. I just used Outrage, and I would wipe out half the team.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 06:24 PM
Everyone here thinks that Garchomp is going to have a Yache Berry. It could have a Choice Scarf, or something else to. Like I had a strategy to give my Salemence a choice scarf. I just used Outrage, and I would wipe out half the team.

I'm missing something. If Garchomp has a Choice Scarf, how does scarfing Salamence, a Pokemon slower than Garchomp, help?

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 06:31 PM
My point is that Garchomps can have other items instead of yache berries.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 06:34 PM
My point is that Garchomps can have other items instead of yache berries.

And my point is that Garchomp doesn't need a Yache Berry to be deadly.

The Maple Syrup Baptist
03-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Garchomp can OHKO almost any Pokemon. It should stay uber.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 06:39 PM
You see the thing about Garchomp is that it would ever be the strongest OU pokemon, or the weakest Uber. I would rather have it as the strongest OU.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 06:42 PM
You see the thing about Garchomp is that it would ever be the strongest OU pokemon, or the weakest Uber. I would rather have it as the strongest OU.

I'm wondering how that makes sense to you, though. Wobbuffet is pretty much the "weakest uber" but we've tested it before and it was banned again.

Ubers isn't a tier where you compare strength to other ubers. It's a ban tier for things unfit for OU.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 06:48 PM
I'm wondering how that makes sense to you, though. Wobbuffet is pretty much the "weakest uber" but we've tested it before and it was banned again.

Ubers isn't a tier where you compare strength to other ubers. It's a ban tier for things unfit for OU.

Really? if you use it right they are very, very good.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 06:50 PM
Really? if you use it right they are very, very good.

...Yes, Wobby is extremely good in OU. That's my point. It's not a Pokemon you'll often in Ubers, which seems to be your basis for unbanning Garchomp.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 06:51 PM
Now the question is should Wobby be OU lol

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 06:52 PM
Now the question is should Wobby be OU lol

...No it's not. He's already been tested.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 06:54 PM
So has Garchomp. Sometimes smogon moves stuff down.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 07:00 PM
So has Garchomp. Sometimes smogon moves stuff down.

Yes, but unlike Wobbuffet Garchomp didn't begin life in Ubers. He had an extended testing period in OU and then was banned.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, but unlike Wobbuffet Garchomp didn't begin life in Ubers. He had an extended testing period in OU and then was banned.

Thats because many people protested because they were gettting whiped by garchomps. my friend on smogon told me about it.

Fire Away
03-27-2009, 07:05 PM
Thats because many people protested because they were gettting whiped by garchomps. my friend on smogon told me about it.

It's clear you don't really know what happened on Smogon. There were long debates about this, not just people speaking out because Garchomp kept beating them.

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 07:06 PM
Really? My friend is a jerk then... anyways sorry about the false information.

Gold Rush
03-27-2009, 07:09 PM
Garchomps too good for OU, but not good enough for Uber. I don't totally disagree but I think he should have stayed in OU because everybody had one in their team, but not so sure with Platinum updates :o

Yoda55
03-27-2009, 07:12 PM
Garchomps too good for OU, but not good enough for Uber. I don't totally disagree but I think he should have stayed in OU because everybody had one in their team, but not so sure with Platinum updates :o

That is pretty much my summary of what i said. they should have a small selection between Ou, and Uber like there is Limbo between UU, and OU.

Tory vs Meaty II
03-27-2009, 07:21 PM
You see the thing about Garchomp is that it would ever be the strongest OU pokemon, or the weakest Uber. I would rather have it as the strongest OU.

I do average at Shoddy. Call me crazy, but ever since I join Shoddy, my battles were usually neutrally against Garchomp. Commonly when a user just throw out a Garchomp against me, I OHKO it with Azelf, PorygonZ, Alakazam, etc., but your plain can get messed up if you done something wrong, like waiting too long to encounter with. People always complained about Garchomp so much, but I never really had a problem with him. I made up my results, I first always thought, why is Creseralia is in OU? That is like the main Pokemon I have ever had problems with. People had trouble with Metagross leads, Ninjask leads, but I didn't.

atucker22
03-27-2009, 07:57 PM
No, in my opinion only legends should be Uber.

The Jr Trainer
03-27-2009, 08:02 PM
No, in my opinion only legends should be Uber.

So something like Entei that can barely do anything in the UU tier should be an Uber?

Dark Turtwig
03-27-2009, 08:09 PM
That is pretty much my summary of what i said. they should have a small selection between Ou, and Uber like there is Limbo between UU, and OU.

If I'm not mistaken, Limob isn't a real tier. It's basically a holding pen until pokemon are decided what tier to be placed in. Like Staraptor, Abomasnow, and Froslass are currently in the limbo tier because they are being decided where they should go. UU, or OU.
(Right?) I'm not a posting member on smogon, and I don't shoddy ALL that often, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Tory vs Meaty II
03-27-2009, 08:12 PM
No, in my opinion only legends should be Uber.

That post you did was lol. Would you like to take a look at this page?: http://www.psypokes.com/dp/basestats.php?stat=overall

AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs
03-27-2009, 08:19 PM
No, in my opinion only legends should be Uber.

Entei, AMAZING uber material [/sarcasm]

To be honest, he shoudl stay in Uber. Too many people complain about him in the OU battles so just keep him there until the moaning stops.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
04-04-2009, 10:05 AM
I think it should, it's a pseudo-legendary; I think. There's Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross and now Garchomp and Rotom.

~Mewchirio~

Rotom is not a pseudo-legendary. Who came out with this idea?

Garchomp has the same amount of stats as Dragonite, Salamence, Metagross. It's broken because it has all the stats in the right place. :/

Do you realise that Cloyster is not going to survive switching in into Outrage? After one DD, Dragonite's Outrage does a little less than 42%. Now, Garchomp uses SWORDS DANCE, so its attack is x2 instead of x1.5 like Dragon Dancers. Garchomp has about 4 points less attack, but Swords Dance more than makes up for it. Cloyster takes 50% damage. Next turn, if Cloyster uses Icicle Spear, it's outsped and killed. Use Ice Shard? Garchomp laughs off the damage and kills it off.

And there's also the problem of Sand Veil in Sandstorm. 20% chance of your attack missing. That's 1 in 5, which is A LOT. Imagine your crucial Ice Beam missing, then Garchomp killing your Starmie. It has happened to way too many people. Yeah.

True. It also has the right moves.

And you forgot Tyranitar.

Wow, you guys are giving WAY too much thought on this. Has it ever occured to you that maybe straight-out attackingisn't the ONLY way to deal with Mr.ImsouglyIcanhardlystandit? You know, it never occurs to anyone that you can use status afflictions as well...

"Uuuuh! But Garchomp is so fast and powerful, he'd kill you before you could do anything because he's Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuber! Ur a n00b!!11!!1"

Garchomp only becomes a slightly big threat after he uses Dragon Dance/Swords Dance. If you can find a way to turn that power against him, then you're pretty set. It should also be noted that no one ever puts any EP into Garchomp's stats that aren't Speed and Attack. So just wail on him with other moves that aren't Ice Beam.

"Uuuuuh! But no one uses those kinds of moves in competetive battling because Garchomp's an Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuber, n00b!!11!!1!"

Then stop complaining. I, myself, have done numurous battles facing Garchomp, and Ice Beam was not the only way I had defeated him. In fact, I worry more about facing Abomasnow than Garchomp, and my team was built without Garchomp's uglier-than-sin face in my head, and I'm sure me having to make a few move changes to fight off Abomasnow isn't going to bump it up to any higher of a tier (not that tiers matter anyway)

"Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh! But Garchomp's base stats are super high! He's Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuber!!11!!1!1!!!"

Yeah, they're high... so what? If you truely want to be good in this game, you'll learn to deal with it, as well as the other many "Ubers" this game has. I have said this before and have been flamed for it, but tier list users are for losers who want to cut down other's abilities so that they can have what they believe is called a "fair match".

Also true.


In my opinion, if you have problems when you face Garchomp, get a Garchomp yourself and train it to fight against Garchomp. I don't see why this should be a problem. Ditto for non-event Legendary Pokemon. Just ban the Über event Legendary Pokemon, since they are basically the only Pokemon that not everyone can get.

But yeah, if there has to be an Über tier, then Garchomp's in it.