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View Full Version : Should we Ban Pokesav [Vote]


Yoda55
04-04-2009, 11:37 PM
Sister thread (http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95606). This time we are voting!

Light_Sky
04-04-2009, 11:40 PM
Anyway, I think no. We have lives and we don't want to waste them correct?! And if this ends up banning Pokesav I might as well cheat anyway. =/

Professor Geoffrey
04-04-2009, 11:51 PM
Uh, I say yes.

But mainly because people say, "We have lives, people!"

Honestly, I think anything not licensed by Nintendo that goes with any game should be banned from competitive gaming. If it is (and from the looks of it, I doubt it is), I withdraw my claim.

complexmanifold
04-04-2009, 11:53 PM
Banning it won't fully stop it, just like Prohibition in the 1920's. It might even lead to organized crimes and gangsters. :eh: Whether people have lives or not does not really matter, it's not like we're a bunch of Schrödinger's cats.

Larvinator
04-05-2009, 12:02 AM
The danger with Pokesav is that it seems like it can be used to make impossible stats. If a smart player just barely tweaks stats using it so they don't appear ridiculous but are in fact higher than they can be, well...yeah. There's too much of a risk of abuse, so I say ban it.

Chromatic Alchemist
04-05-2009, 12:16 AM
Honestly, I care not much at all. Pokesav is cool for EVing/Fan-Events, but other than that, I consider it a waste of time that concerns me in no way. =D

Stubby Boardman
04-05-2009, 12:17 AM
I usually only use pokesav for the purpase of breeding, but yeah you can't stop someone from doing something even if you do ban it or not.

Fire Away
04-05-2009, 12:18 AM
It will still be used regardless of whatever this poll means. Not letting everyone see who voted for what is a mistake in this context as well.

Elrond
04-05-2009, 12:24 AM
It will still be used regardless of whatever this poll means. Not letting everyone see who voted for what is a mistake in this context as well.

Agreed. Most people that I know of who use PokeSav only use it for competitive battling, and then they're making them legal. And if they're not, you can just say OMG NOOB and never battle them again and not worry about it. And people who use it to distribute hacks are either smart enough to make it look legit or state straight out that they are hacked. So banning wouldn't really change anything.

TeirusuFX
04-05-2009, 03:09 AM
To tell you the truth, I could care less

If people want to cheat, do it, we can't stop you

It's just a game...gosh!

♪テイルス♪
♫Teirusu♫

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
04-05-2009, 03:17 AM
To tell you the truth, I could care less

If people want to cheat, do it, we can't stop you

It's just a game...gosh!

♪テイルス♪
♫Teirusu♫

The most straightforward answer ever.

And I sorta agree.

EDIT: No, I definitely do.

Professor Geoffrey
04-06-2009, 08:44 PM
To tell you the truth, I could care less

If people want to cheat, do it, we can't stop you

It's just a game...gosh!

♪テイルス♪
♫Teirusu♫

Then why are there so many clauses in competitive battling? I say that if we don't ban PokéSav, that we should just get rid of all the rules and let everyone run rampant, because it's a half-made attempt to ban all hacking - oh - except for PokéSav! If we can't stop them, then you might as well get rid of the no-spam rule, the no-flaming rule, etc...

Get where I'm going with this? No half-attempts. It's all or nothing on this one.

DragoniteMistress
04-06-2009, 08:47 PM
Then why are there so many clauses in competitive battling? I say that if we don't ban PokéSav, that we should just get rid of all the rules and let everyone run rampant, because it's a half-made attempt to ban all hacking - oh - except for PokéSav! If we can't stop them, then you might as well get rid of the no-spam rule, the no-flaming rule, etc...

Get where I'm going with this? No half-attempts. It's all or nothing on this one.

The clauses are so that the game seems a bit more... fair. Least that's how I view it.

I wouldn't be too peachy keen on battling someone who can put my whole team to sleep. That, and competitive battling is like chess... only on a video game, with little monster dudes... yeah, you get it.

Professor Geoffrey
04-06-2009, 08:50 PM
The clauses are so that the game seems a bit more... fair.

Exactly what I was trying to point out...

That's why I say we should ban PokéSav. It's not fair that you yous a cheating device to make you a better battler. If you want to do it the fair way, take the time to do the breeding - cheating is wrong and it's a shortcut. If you're taking the shortcut, why are you playing the game at all? It's no fun being the best, after all.

iReign
04-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Exactly what I was trying to point out...

That's why I say we should ban PokéSav. It's not fair that you yous a cheating device to make you a better battler. If you want to do it the fair way, take the time to do the breeding - cheating is wrong and it's a shortcut. If you're taking the shortcut, why are you playing the game at all? It's no fun being the best, after all.

It's only cheating if its abuse. If I use my PokeSav to make my Infernape have 255 EVs in every stat, that would be abuse. Most people that do use PokeSav, don't abuse it, because I know people in my clan that use it.

Why take hours and hours to breed Pokemon with flawless IVs, and then to EV train them all, when you can just make a legit team, and go on WiFi.

DragoniteMistress
04-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Exactly what I was trying to point out...

That's why I say we should ban PokéSav. It's not fair that you yous a cheating device to make you a better battler. If you want to do it the fair way, take the time to do the breeding - cheating is wrong and it's a shortcut. If you're taking the shortcut, why are you playing the game at all? It's no fun being the best, after all.

PokeSaving doesn't make you a better battler. You can Sav any Pokemon your little heart desires and still royally suck at competitive battling. It's all in how you use what you have.

And we're taking the shortcut, because the long way is the worst, most tedious, and most of us don't even have the time for it. A lot of us are busy with our own lives, like homework, hanging out with friends, etc., and we don't have 30 hours to waste on a team that probably won't even come out as good as it would have if we just Sav'd it. That, and what if your opponent Sav's too? A lot of people use PokeSav, or have friends PokeSav for them.

Lusitania
04-06-2009, 08:54 PM
I really couldn't give a damn.

Professor Geoffrey
04-06-2009, 09:08 PM
It's only cheating if its abuse. If I use my PokeSav to make my Infernape have 255 EVs in every stat, that would be abuse. Most people that do use PokeSav, don't abuse it, because I know people in my clan that use it.

Why take hours and hours to breed Pokemon with flawless IVs, and then to EV train them all, when you can just make a legit team, and go on WiFi.

PokeSaving doesn't make you a better battler. You can Sav any Pokemon your little heart desires and still royally suck at competitive battling. It's all in how you use what you have.

And we're taking the shortcut, because the long way is the worst, most tedious, and most of us don't even have the time for it. A lot of us are busy with our own lives, like homework, hanging out with friends, etc., and we don't have 30 hours to waste on a team that probably won't even come out as good as it would have if we just Sav'd it. That, and what if your opponent Sav's too? A lot of people use PokeSav, or have friends PokeSav for them.

I'm just saying that Nintendo doesn't take ownership to it, nor does it endorse it, so it should not be allowed. Sure, you could use it and still suck, but you can use it and get better.

And yes, we have lives, I perfectly understand, but Obama can't erase our county's debt, we can't make all the continents go back to Pangaea form, we can't change the color of the sun, you can't kill Bush by just holding a gun up to his picture (for all you haters out there), you can't make Pokémon real, and you can't project dreams out of your body. It's a shortcut, and shortcuts you can't make by yourself with what Nintendo endorses (or, for other games, with what their console franchise endorses), you shouldn't be allowed to do. That's my opinion, and it's not changing.

iReign
04-06-2009, 09:18 PM
I'm just saying that Nintendo doesn't take ownership to it, nor does it endorse it, so it should not be allowed. Sure, you could use it and still suck, but you can use it and get better.

And yes, we have lives, I perfectly understand, but Obama can't erase our county's debt, we can't make all the continents go back to Pangaea form, we can't change the color of the sun, you can't kill Bush by just holding a gun up to his picture (for all you haters out there), you can't make Pokémon real, and you can't project dreams out of your body. It's a shortcut, and shortcuts you can't make by yourself with what Nintendo endorses (or, for other games, with what their console franchise endorses), you shouldn't be allowed to do. That's my opinion, and it's not changing.

Have you actively tried to competitively battle? It's hard to make a valid point if you haven't done much of it. Sure, its a shortcut, but in reality, it is nearly impossible to breed a Pokemon with a good nature(for the given Pokemon), and with flawless IVs. Sure, ban PokeSav, if you want to make competitive battling epic and utter fail.

Josh
04-06-2009, 09:21 PM
Should we ban gamesharks?
Should we ban hex editors?
Should we ban torrenting?
Should we ban anything that has a legitimate purpose but some people choose not to?

Jesus
04-06-2009, 09:34 PM
I personally couldn't give a flying Zubat about it.
If people want to create 'the ultimate pokémon' then let them.
There's no enjoyment in making 'perfect pokémon' for me though.

Near
04-07-2009, 11:41 AM
I personally couldn't give a flying Zubat about it.
If people want to create 'the ultimate pokémon' then let them.
There's no enjoyment in making 'perfect pokémon' for me though.

Pokesav doesn't make ultimate pokemon inless used to. But we're talking about Legal pokemon Vs. Legit pokemon

The only difference is that Pokesav take's a fraction of the time then if you bred it and ev'ed it.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
04-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Then why are there so many clauses in competitive battling? I say that if we don't ban PokéSav, that we should just get rid of all the rules and let everyone run rampant, because it's a half-made attempt to ban all hacking - oh - except for PokéSav! If we can't stop them, then you might as well get rid of the no-spam rule, the no-flaming rule, etc...

Get where I'm going with this? No half-attempts. It's all or nothing on this one.

For the sake of fairness. :|

This argument doesn't work for Pokesav. It's just not fair to spend ages just to get the team you want... when those who don't participate don't need to spend that time.

Yamirami
04-30-2009, 12:49 AM
Personally I'm on the no pokésav side. and all the pokesavers can come up with is that:
1. It takes too long to IV Breed
2. You end up having no life (Which is actually false, look at the pokesavers cheating in a POKEMON GAME just to win... now who has no life?)

Wow, 2 reasons. there's a lot of reasons why it should be banned, but one of them that I came up with is my favorite.
My Reason: Just like in that Super Mario RPG Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECv7i-6bChI). (0:45-0:50) "Why we try to cheat in a really good game? Just sounds like crap and it makes you look lame!
Heh heh heh...

Reasons why it should be banned:

1. (See reason I made above)
2. Just like AR are basicly banned, why shouldn't pokesav? It even INVOLVES using an AR.
3. It shows YOU have no life. What a waste of money just to win. Why can't everyone just play fair?
4. (More of a personal reason) You'll MAY get banned from official tournaments for hacking, but who cares? With no Lv. 50 all rule (Your pokemon must be 50 or below) everyone (Even me) is basicly screwed...
Heh heh heh...

FireDox
04-30-2009, 11:38 AM
I don't care really. :rolleyes:

Peace Buyer
04-30-2009, 11:49 AM
I say its better if we should, all pokesav is for the noobs of Pokemon who dont know how to raise fair pokemon so they need to hack them.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
04-30-2009, 02:59 PM
I say its better if we should, all pokesav is for the noobs of Pokemon who dont know how to raise fair pokemon so they need to hack them.

So you're one of those who are willing to spend a year getting the team you want? :O

Broderick
04-30-2009, 05:11 PM
I say its better if we should, all pokesav is for the noobs of Pokemon who dont know how to raise fair pokemon so they need to hack them.
Exactly, I'm a noob because I use Pokesav, and I don't know how to play a game! Why didn't I see it before!? :O
Personally I'm on the no pokésav side. and all the pokesavers can come up with is that:
1. It takes too long to IV Breed
2. You end up having no life (Which is actually false, look at the pokesavers cheating in a POKEMON GAME just to win... now who has no life?)

Wow, 2 reasons. there's a lot of reasons why it should be banned, but one of them that I came up with is my favorite.
My Reason: Just like in that Super Mario RPG Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECv7i-6bChI). (0:45-0:50) "Why we try to cheat in a really good game? Just sounds like crap and it makes you look lame!
Heh heh heh...

Reasons why it should be banned:

1. (See reason I made above)
2. Just like AR are basicly banned, why shouldn't pokesav? It even INVOLVES using an AR.
3. It shows YOU have no life. What a waste of money just to win. Why can't everyone just play fair?
4. (More of a personal reason) You'll MAY get banned from official tournaments for hacking, but who cares? With no Lv. 50 all rule (Your pokemon must be 50 or below) everyone (Even me) is basicly screwed...
Heh heh heh...

I don't get it. Why do people feel compelled to drag 'lollolol u hav no life' into this discussion? Just because you breed pokemon, doesn't mean you have no life... Just because you use Pokesav, rather than breed and EV train manually, doesn't mean you have no life. It's just how you choose to play a game, people.
@Yamirami, please just be quiet. You are saying that people who use pokesav are dirty cheaters who have no lives and are bad people. o_0
Seriously? IT'S JUST A GAME. There are ALWAYS. ALWAYS, going to be people who cheat, to save time, and make it more convienent. Suck it up. Even if we ban it, it's not going to change anything.

Kendo
04-30-2009, 09:46 PM
I certainly don't want to spend hours and hours building an awesome team just so that I can win at a game.

However, I wouldn't feel very good cheating just to win at a game, either.

So i'm torn. I don't really care either way, though.

Ridley
04-30-2009, 09:49 PM
I don't care, because I haven't played a single Pokemon game except Colosseum in two years. :]

Yamirami
04-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Exactly, I'm a noob because I use Pokesav, and I don't know how to play a game! Why didn't I see it before!? :O


I don't get it. Why do people feel compelled to drag 'lollolol u hav no life' into this discussion? Just because you breed pokemon, doesn't mean you have no life... Just because you use Pokesav, rather than breed and EV train manually, doesn't mean you have no life. It's just how you choose to play a game, people.
@Yamirami, please just be quiet. You are saying that people who use pokesav are dirty cheaters who have no lives and are bad people. o_0
Seriously? IT'S JUST A GAME. There are ALWAYS. ALWAYS, going to be people who cheat, to save time, and make it more convienent. Suck it up. Even if we ban it, it's not going to change anything.

Ouch, serious flaming. My eyes are still burning. :eek: What I'm basicly saying is, why cheat? It's like in Bingo.... wait you can't cheat in that... Ok, forget real-life examples. But pokesav is cheating, and morraly for me, it should be banned. Yeah there's not much to say that I've already said... :susp:
Heh heh heh...

EDIT: Also, how about we stop this thread before a full-f;edged flame war starts. Ugh, if pokesav was never made, and people would play the game fair how it should be played (And not played with an illegal hacking device) then this never would have happened. Why doesn't Nintendo, just sue pokesav, ban it, and make a patch in like an event or something so that when the AR (Or any other hacking device) trys to load the screen for the cheats, the patch tells it to stop and load the game or something. I don't know, but why doesn't Nintendo do anything? Why don't they even say anything about hacking? Is it a secret to them or something?
Heh heh heh...

Psychedelic Shroomish
04-30-2009, 10:28 PM
No, Pokesav is perfectly fine as long as you use legal hacks (ex: Not doing more than 510 EVs, not giving your mons moves that they don't learn naturally). Really, Pokesav is much more practical imo. Honestly, who wants to spend days trying to IV breed the perfect mon and then have to EV train it, etc.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-01-2009, 01:46 AM
No, Pokesav is perfectly fine as long as you use legal hacks (ex: Not doing more than 510 EVs, not giving your mons moves that they don't learn naturally). Really, Pokesav is much more practical imo. Honestly, who wants to spend days trying to IV breed the perfect mon and then have to EV train it, etc.

How about this: Say, in a team of 6, 3 Pokemon are trained from scratch, 3 are made by Pokesav. And set it as the standard. Would this be a win-win solution?

Black Hawk
05-01-2009, 02:02 AM
How about this: Say, in a team of 6, 3 Pokemon are trained from scratch, 3 are made by Pokesav. And set it as the standard. Would this be a win-win solution?

No. That's stupid. How could you tell?

I say PokeSAV should be allowed. Back in my Battling Center days, PokeSAV was frowned upon and wasn't allowed even if they had legit stats/moves.

I have wasted many hours of my life IV breeding and EV training over 50 mons and I don't think the new Battling Centerers should have to suffer. I say PokeSAV is a great thing and wish the jerks in my day allowed it :\

Of course, I did you some PokeSAV legit lookers because there's no way to check. TEEHEE!

Nitro
05-01-2009, 02:20 AM
If you guys get PokeSAV banned, I will seriously hire an ugly fat guy to anally rape each and every one of you.

-Holland-
05-01-2009, 02:30 AM
Banning it won't fully stop it, just like Prohibition in the 1920's. It might even lead to organized crimes and gangsters. :eh: Whether people have lives or not does not really matter, it's not like we're a bunch of Schrödinger's cats.

Epic analogy.

Yes, just like Prohibition, anyone who uses PokeSav will just use it to make "legit-looking" Pokemon to fight others with, because a lot of us are just impatient and can't put toward the effort to sit down and EV train, let alone go through all the trouble to get proper IVs.

I will admit; Wi-Fi battling would be a lot more interesting if people were limited to certain natures and IVs, and thus would come up with creative sets of their own, rather than abiding by the standards. But, regardless, PokeSav speeds up the creativity process, though things may seem more and more streamlined. It just comes across that way because things progress so quickly.

I can understand if people who actually go through all the trouble are ticked at those who just kind of whip up their team in minutes, and I understand even better those who are ticked off at people who just make new teams every day and challenge the same people in order to counter their teams with ease. That's understandable, but PokeSav lets us exploit the game in the most efficient (er, well, convenient) manner available.

Like alcohol, PokeSav for a lot of Wi-Fi players has become a depressant for the stressors that accompany the real situations; things are just easier with it around, even if the authorities like it or not. Immoral as it may be judged, you can't stop people from using it; anything readily available is always consumed first.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-01-2009, 04:32 AM
No. That's stupid. How could you tell?

I say PokeSAV should be allowed. Back in my Battling Center days, PokeSAV was frowned upon and wasn't allowed even if they had legit stats/moves.

I have wasted many hours of my life IV breeding and EV training over 50 mons and I don't think the new Battling Centerers should have to suffer. I say PokeSAV is a great thing and wish the jerks in my day allowed it :\

Of course, I did you some PokeSAV legit lookers because there's no way to check. TEEHEE!

With the best technology, no doubt.

Epic analogy.

Yes, just like Prohibition, anyone who uses PokeSav will just use it to make "legit-looking" Pokemon to fight others with, because a lot of us are just impatient and can't put toward the effort to sit down and EV train, let alone go through all the trouble to get proper IVs.

I will admit; Wi-Fi battling would be a lot more interesting if people were limited to certain natures and IVs, and thus would come up with creative sets of their own, rather than abiding by the standards. But, regardless, PokeSav speeds up the creativity process, though things may seem more and more streamlined. It just comes across that way because things progress so quickly.

I can understand if people who actually go through all the trouble are ticked at those who just kind of whip up their team in minutes, and I understand even better those who are ticked off at people who just make new teams every day and challenge the same people in order to counter their teams with ease. That's understandable, but PokeSav lets us exploit the game in the most efficient (er, well, convenient) manner available.

Like alcohol, PokeSav for a lot of Wi-Fi players has become a depressant for the stressors that accompany the real situations; things are just easier with it around, even if the authorities like it or not. Immoral as it may be judged, you can't stop people from using it; anything readily available is always consumed first.

Yes. Just add in a number of Pokemon that cannot be PokeSav-ed for those who don't want to cheat all the way. Pokemon battling will still be fun this way. :wink:

Vincent_Valentine_4
05-01-2009, 04:51 AM
There is nothing wrong with pokesav I've hatched eggs and ev trained pokes for like 600 hours and I have less than 20 pokes that are actually good enough to compete in the online society right now because ivs are so important and it takes so long just to get the right one you want I mean come on I spent so much time just to train pokes and I don't even have that many pokesav is cheating sure call it that if you want but people have better things to do than train for 600 hours thus they use pokesav.

Charizard Michelle
05-01-2009, 05:03 AM
Okay, so lets say we ban PokeSav? How do we enforce this ban? Do we make the person who we are going to battle say "I am not using PokeSav Pokemon. I breeded these pokemon myself." and then we can have a hokey dokey battle and everybody goes home happy? Yeah. That can so be trusted.

There is a reason why we have causes and there is two reasons that I can come up with why we have the ones we have today in my eyes. A) To make the battle fair. Nobody wants to battle where all the opponet has to do is put your team to sleep and then sweep away. And B) Because they are easy to enforce. If somebody uses a Kings Rock or put your a second pokemon of yours asleep then you can just DC and not battle that person ever again. Simple as that. The 'No PokeSav Ban' you are asking has no way to be enforce since we will have no way to make sure the other person PokeSav them or not. Most people who PokeSav for competitive battling purposes make sure that the EV and IV spread is correctly done and all the i's are dotted and the t's are cross.

PokeSav also allow some pokemon to see the light of day in the battle scene too. Some pokemon like Jirachi and Celebi are so rare that like only hundreds or so people actually own a real one. There is a small chance that a Jirachi or Celebi you see in competive battling is a real Nintendo issued pokemon. So the people who use them may have got them PokeSav or something but they did it right. They did it where they learn the moves they are suppose to and have the correct EV spread and junk.

PokeSav is only bad when you abuse it to get mess up EV spreads in all stats. I don't use PokeSav but really it doesn't matter. Both the pokemon I raise myself and the ones that are PokeSav are the same power in a competitive battle field since most people who do competitive WiFi make sure that their pokemon are legit as possible so they don't get a bad name for themselves. I have seen where if there was a single hint that your pokemon were illegally hacked in anyway that it would ruin your name on a forum and basically make people not trust you. So many competitive WiFi battlers who do take this game serious enough to have EVed pokemon make sure they don't do stupid things like that so they can enjoy the game even if they win or lose.

Chips, Syrup, Whip~

Knuckles
05-01-2009, 05:03 AM
Epic analogy.

Yes, just like Prohibition, anyone who uses PokeSav will just use it to make "legit-looking" Pokemon to fight others with, because a lot of us are just impatient and can't put toward the effort to sit down and EV train, let alone go through all the trouble to get proper IVs.

I will admit; Wi-Fi battling would be a lot more interesting if people were limited to certain natures and IVs, and thus would come up with creative sets of their own, rather than abiding by the standards. But, regardless, PokeSav speeds up the creativity process, though things may seem more and more streamlined. It just comes across that way because things progress so quickly.

I can understand if people who actually go through all the trouble are ticked at those who just kind of whip up their team in minutes, and I understand even better those who are ticked off at people who just make new teams every day and challenge the same people in order to counter their teams with ease. That's understandable, but PokeSav lets us exploit the game in the most efficient (er, well, convenient) manner available.

Like alcohol, PokeSav for a lot of Wi-Fi players has become a depressant for the stressors that accompany the real situations; things are just easier with it around, even if the authorities like it or not. Immoral as it may be judged, you can't stop people from using it; anything readily available is always consumed first.

like the analogy here...

i personally don't care one way or the other on this matter... i don't pokesav, or use pokesav'd pokies outside of ditto (for breeding) but i don't complain about people using them against me.. i hand raise my pokies from scratch personally, but that don't mean i expect others to.. just because a person uses pokesav'd mons doesn't make it an automatic loss for the person using pokies hand-raised.. i'm sure Diarago can vouge for that (again, good game mate)

i'm rather neutral about this particular petition, if that's what you want to call it.. because it's really a pointless argument.. people are going to do it, whether you like it or not.. no pokesav'd mon is better than one hand raised in my opinion..

Moon Master
05-01-2009, 01:57 PM
You can't tell if a Pokemon was hacked or not if the hacker is decent at it. And when the people over at Project Pokemon release PokeMod (their PokeSav style program) it will be even more difficult to determine legitness. So you could say that you ban it, but you can't enforce it.

Judge Dredd
05-01-2009, 02:51 PM
ban pokesaving all the way, no reason we should just trust people on their word about their pokemon. the very option of being able to alter those stats is what makes it wrong, when it becomes offical that pokesaving is banned, everyones going to look back an laugh at the fact that we just trusted random people to make legal stats in a competitive battles. its like trusting a homeless person into your house and hoping he doesnt steal anything.

Broderick
05-01-2009, 05:43 PM
Ouch, serious flaming. My eyes are still burning. :eek: What I'm basicly saying is, why cheat? It's like in Bingo.... wait you can't cheat in that... Ok, forget real-life examples. But pokesav is cheating, and morraly for me, it should be banned. Yeah there's not much to say that I've already said... :susp:
Heh heh heh...

EDIT: Also, how about we stop this thread before a full-f;edged flame war starts. Ugh, if pokesav was never made, and people would play the game fair how it should be played (And not played with an illegal hacking device) then this never would have happened. Why doesn't Nintendo, just sue pokesav, ban it, and make a patch in like an event or something so that when the AR (Or any other hacking device) trys to load the screen for the cheats, the patch tells it to stop and load the game or something. I don't know, but why doesn't Nintendo do anything? Why don't they even say anything about hacking? Is it a secret to them or something?
Heh heh heh...

Sorry, I was feeling a bit pissed off when writing that. (not just because of your post, something else)
I'm not really sure why nintendo doesn't sue pokesav and whatnot, maybe it isn't acually illegal. :| (Probably is though o_o)

It's all just a matter of opinion. There are people who want it banned, and people who don't. Yamirami, you're right. I think we should all just keep our mouths shut before this turns into a full on flame war, and gets locked. :x

Soda
05-01-2009, 08:48 PM
I myself would use Pokesav to make a Wi-Fi team if I did Wi-Fi. :happy: It's not like I'd give my Jolteon like 69,000 HP EVs or anything. As long as you keep it to like non-cheating I think it's alright.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-02-2009, 04:39 AM
Heck yes.

It's unfair to those who work for their mons.

Then have some trained from scratch, and others made from Pokesav. >_>

ban pokesaving all the way, no reason we should just trust people on their word about their pokemon. the very option of being able to alter those stats is what makes it wrong, when it becomes offical that pokesaving is banned, everyones going to look back an laugh at the fact that we just trusted random people to make legal stats in a competitive battles. its like trusting a homeless person into your house and hoping he doesnt steal anything.

That's why I picked "don't care" over "yes". >_>

Yamirami
05-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Sorry, I was feeling a bit pissed off when writing that. (not just because of your post, something else)
I'm not really sure why nintendo doesn't sue pokesav and whatnot, maybe it isn't acually illegal. :| (Probably is though o_o)

It's all just a matter of opinion. There are people who want it banned, and people who don't. Yamirami, you're right. I think we should all just keep our mouths shut before this turns into a full on flame war, and gets locked. :x

Well I'm pretty sure it is illegal. Imagine Sony suddenly making a game for the Wii, that sounds illegal. Anyways the thing I'm mad about is how ignorant or how ignorant Nintendo appears to be? Come on, I KNOW that they know about it. And how about on PBR Wi-Fi they make an Uber setting? They should at least say SOMETHING about ubers by now. Ugh, when will Nintendo do something for their games?
Heh heh heh...

EDIT: I'm just curious to know. How made Pokesav anyways?
Heh heh heh...

Void
05-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Heck yes.

It's unfair to those who work for their mons.

It isn't unfair on anyone. People who work for their Pokemon choose to do so. You can't choose to not use PokeSav but then say that it's unfair. It's like you voted for Obama but now started complaining that McCain didn't get elected (sorta).

-Pichu Boy-
05-07-2009, 03:11 PM
ban pokesaving all the way, no reason we should just trust people on their word about their pokemon. the very option of being able to alter those stats is what makes it wrong, when it becomes offical that pokesaving is banned, everyones going to look back an laugh at the fact that we just trusted random people to make legal stats in a competitive battles. its like trusting a homeless person into your house and hoping he doesnt steal anything.

And how would you trust random people to the fact that they're not using Pokesav? Apparantly, they can't be trusted, so it solves nothing.

Besides, say someone put 9999999 Def EVs on a Blissey. I would imagine you're going to realise they've hacked it when your Brick Break or whatever does barely any damage. Then just don't ever battle with them again and tell other people not to battle them. Simple.

I don't really care either way. I'm thinking of Pokesaving a team just so I can actually Wi-Fi battle while I train some other mons to use. :x

Judge Dredd
05-07-2009, 03:43 PM
And how would you trust random people to the fact that they're not using Pokesav? Apparantly, they can't be trusted, so it solves nothing.

Besides, say someone put 9999999 Def EVs on a Blissey. I would imagine you're going to realise they've hacked it when your Brick Break or whatever does barely any damage. Then just don't ever battle with them again and tell other people not to battle them. Simple.

I don't really care either way. I'm thinking of Pokesaving a team just so I can actually Wi-Fi battle while I train some other mons to use. :x

this thread isnt about trusting everyone else, cause that could mean anything and lead to argument that would never end. the fact is that pokesav is a form of hacking, using a device made for one reason and one reason only to cheat, there is not real about it. in most( but not all) cases id say take it to pokemon battle rev to see how "real" and legit most of your pokemon are, if they dont show up or you get an error. it because your pokemon is hacked. you just cant buy a device thats made for cheating, and expect to just say its ok im going to follow the rules

-Pichu Boy-
05-07-2009, 04:14 PM
this thread isnt about trusting everyone else, cause that could mean anything and lead to argument that would never end. the fact is that pokesav is a form of hacking, using a device made for one reason and one reason only to cheat, there is not real about it. in most( but not all) cases id say take it to pokemon battle rev to see how "real" and legit most of your pokemon are, if they dont show up or you get an error. it because your pokemon is hacked. you just cant buy a device thats made for cheating, and expect to just say its ok im going to follow the rules

You based your post on why Pokesav should be banned on the fact that you can't trust people, yet now you say that trusting people isn't what this thread is about? o.O

Yes, Pokesav is a form of hacking. And if you hatch the Pokemon (according to Project Pokemon), PBR is extremely unlikely to catch it as long as the stats are legit.

Anyway, does it really matter? Poksaving Pokemon doesn't make you a better trainer; it doesn't make you suddenly have uber amazing strategies that will always work; it doesn't make your Magikarp able to counter Garchomp. Therefore, why is there even a worry about it? And don't say "It's cheating", because I think we've established that.

Void
05-07-2009, 04:16 PM
this thread isnt about trusting everyone else, cause that could mean anything and lead to argument that would never end. the fact is that pokesav is a form of hacking, using a device made for one reason and one reason only to cheat, there is not real about it. in most( but not all) cases id say take it to pokemon battle rev to see how "real" and legit most of your pokemon are, if they dont show up or you get an error. it because your pokemon is hacked. you just cant buy a device thats made for cheating, and expect to just say its ok im going to follow the rules

But AR isn't against the rules. Like I have said so many times before, competitive battling isn't about how much effort you put into training a Pokemon, it's about your ability to think of a good, solid team and your strategy. Which is why you can Pokesav your Pokemon as long as you don't hack stats/abilities/moves which you can get on a certain Pokemon without Pokesav.

Judge Dredd
05-07-2009, 04:30 PM
But AR isn't against the rules. Like I have said so many times before, competitive battling isn't about how much effort you put into training a Pokemon, it's about your ability to think of a good, solid team and your strategy. Which is why you can Pokesav your Pokemon as long as you don't hack stats/abilities/moves which you can get on a certain Pokemon without Pokesav.

what i said isnt about effort in training at all. its AR ability to boost stats over what they can be, and how people miss use it. thats the main reason it should be banned, any person that says that their good competive wouldnt have a problem with ar being banned since the key to competitive battling is like you said strategy

-Pichu Boy-
05-07-2009, 04:34 PM
what i said isnt about effort in training at all. its AR ability to boost stats over what they can be, and how people miss use it. thats the main reason it should be banned, any person that says that their good competive wouldnt have a problem with ar being banned since the key to competitive battling is like you said strategy

But the majority of people DON'T mis-use it. And if they DO then just DON'T battle them again.

And you're saying that the key to competitive battling is strategy. How does that apply to manually EV training but not Pokesav? BESIDES from the select few who do abuse it.

Judge Dredd
05-07-2009, 04:44 PM
But the majority of people DON'T mis-use it. And if they DO then just DON'T battle them again.

And you're saying that the key to competitive battling is strategy. How does that apply to manually EV training but not Pokesav? BESIDES from the select few who do abuse it.

how do you know the majority dont mis-use it? cause you asked them. This really is not a personal attack on poksaver but why in the world would someone say they boosted the stats to high...no one would battle them. Their are alot of new battlers that have no idea how strong certain pokemon are, so they wouldnt be able to tell hacked from normal. to just say its ok, because most of us are on the honor system is not enough to make it ok.

-Pichu Boy-
05-07-2009, 04:55 PM
how do you know the majority dont mis-use it? cause you asked them. This really is not a personal attack on poksaver but why in the world would someone say they boosted the stats to high...no one would battle them. Their are alot of new battlers that have no idea how strong certain pokemon are, so they wouldnt be able to tell hacked from normal. to just say its ok, because most of us are on the honor system is not enough to make it ok.

You only mentioned the new people. What about the experienced people? They would be able to tell the other Pokemon are hacked and then tell other people. And eventually, the new people will get more experienced and then would be able to tell hacked from legit.

We Taste Pies...
05-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Dunno if anybody has already said the obvious, but I'm gonna say it anyway:

BANNING IT WILL NOT STOP IT

Void
05-07-2009, 05:02 PM
what i said isnt about effort in training at all. its AR ability to boost stats over what they can be, and how people miss use it. thats the main reason it should be banned, any person that says that their good competive wouldnt have a problem with ar being banned since the key to competitive battling is like you said strategy

It is pretty obvious when a stat is over-boosted though.

Broderick
05-07-2009, 05:21 PM
how do you know the majority dont mis-use it? cause you asked them. This really is not a personal attack on poksaver but why in the world would someone say they boosted the stats to high...no one would battle them. Their are alot of new battlers that have no idea how strong certain pokemon are, so they wouldnt be able to tell hacked from normal. to just say its ok, because most of us are on the honor system is not enough to make it ok.

I've exposed a bunch of people that hack over the limits. ShadowDarkrai here, Stealthx5 on Marriland, and a few others from Serebii. (Can't remember their names though. x_x)
Say they have a Skarmory out, and your Jolteon's thunderbolt only does a little over half. That's pretty suspicious, amirite? If you think they are hacking over legal limits, ask them for a trade after the battle. If someone like me hacks within legal stat limits, you wouldn't have a problem doing a trade, because you have nothing to hide. If they don't want to do the trade, that's one sign. If you get in the trade, and they're stats are over the limit: :O
They're a pokesav misuser.
Like other people have said, banning the program won't stop people from using it. Cocaine is banned in every state in the U.S., but there are still thousands of crack addicts, aren't there?

Leki Fenrir
05-07-2009, 05:34 PM
I don't really care.
Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if everyone worked for their Pokemon at an equal pace- but it doesn't matter. In the end, it's about playing the right cards and having the right amount of prediction and luck.

I happen to enjoy Breeding, and Training, from scratch so I don't 'Sav. I use my Sav for Cloning and for getting Tms and held Items.
Some people like making a whole Team in three seconds and zooming out to the battle field.

What's good for some, is bad for others. As long as they aren't putting 255 Evs in every stat and running around with Hydro Pump Pikachus, I have no problem with them. X3 I'll prolly lose all the same because I am horrid at building Teams.

Judge Dredd
05-07-2009, 05:43 PM
You only mentioned the new people. What about the experienced people? They would be able to tell the other Pokemon are hacked and then tell other people. And eventually, the new people will get more experienced and then would be able to tell hacked from legit.

It is pretty obvious when a stat is over-boosted though.

the same goes for both of you, you shouldnt have to ask....period. the fact that you have to is why were talking about this, and stats can be changed a little so it would be harder to tell, seems to me that if someone was smart enough they would jsut boost them enough not to be noticable.

Void
05-08-2009, 12:29 PM
the same goes for both of you, you shouldnt have to ask....period. the fact that you have to is why were talking about this, and stats can be changed a little so it would be harder to tell, seems to me that if someone was smart enough they would jsut boost them enough not to be noticable.

If you are good, you can notice the slight boost in the power of the opponent attacks or slight drop in the damage taken. Anyway, as said before, BANNING IT WILL NOT STOP IT. And besides, the poll is just for people's opinion, it won't change anything.

Judge Dredd
05-08-2009, 01:43 PM
If you are good, you can notice the slight boost in the power of the opponent attacks or slight drop in the damage taken. And besides, as said before, BANNING IT WILL NOT STOP IT. And besides, the poll is just for people's opinion, it won't change anything.

yeah this is only for our opinion, but if it were banned and worked then people who are "good" wont have a problem going back to doing the same way as the rest of us. really the it comes down to something fair for everyone, not just the few people who are "elite". this has to do with the many not the few.

Starkipraggy
05-08-2009, 04:05 PM
yeah this is only for our opinion, but if it were banned and worked then people who are "good" wont have a problem going back to doing the same way as the rest of us. really the it comes down to something fair for everyone, not just the few people who are "elite". this has to do with the many not the few.
And with the masses, it's impossible to police everything, so banning it WILL NOT STOP IT. Even you somehow get the Pokesav guy to shut off the program (HIGHLY UNLIKELY), there's always user-uploaded resources and torrents...

I'm really not getting your point here. If you want to train up your mons, go do it yourself. Bear in mind also that it is entirely possible for a skilled person to PokeSav what you did out, down to the Trainer ID. That's just life for you. Have you seen MMORPGs? Some people use hacks and some people don't. Some people get caught and banned and some people don't. It's that simple and that unfair.

Judge Dredd
05-08-2009, 08:18 PM
And with the masses, it's impossible to police everything, so banning it WILL NOT STOP IT. Even you somehow get the Pokesav guy to shut off the program (HIGHLY UNLIKELY), there's always user-uploaded resources and torrents...

I'm really not getting your point here. If you want to train up your mons, go do it yourself. Bear in mind also that it is entirely possible for a skilled person to PokeSav what you did out, down to the Trainer ID. That's just life for you. Have you seen MMORPGs? Some people use hacks and some people don't. Some people get caught and banned and some people don't. It's that simple and that unfair.

hahaha thats like speech that says bad things happen, so what can you do about it. so your the guy selling bootleged movies, and you think your better then the guy stealing cars..its all the same. there is no gray here. its very simple black and white. you use a device to hack, you are a hacker. the question still remain should it be banned. well i say yes, but then again ive never been the guy to look the other way

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-09-2009, 05:38 AM
hahaha thats like speech that says bad things happen, so what can you do about it. so your the guy selling bootleged movies, and you think your better then the guy stealing cars..its all the same. there is no gray here. its very simple black and white. you use a device to hack, you are a hacker. the question still remain should it be banned. well i say yes, but then again ive never been the guy to look the other way

You're assuming that there's a chance that banning will erase the problem totally. Prove it first.

Charizard Michelle
05-09-2009, 05:52 AM
The question that needs to be asked is "How will you enforce it?"

There is really no way to tell if a person has Pokesav their pokemon or not. Almost all people who use Pokesav make their pokemon to look just like regular pokemon and it will be hard to just tell by battling it. There is no surefire way to enforce a "Pokesav Clause" of any kind. Show a reasonable way to enforce a "Pokesav Clause" and I am sure many people would jump on it to support it.

The thing is that many people who Pokesav don't have the time to EV train every pokemon for a full team. I recently finished EV training a pokemon and it took me months to EV train it since I was only EV training it once a week and some weeks I was busy so I had to skip out on EV training that pokemon. I think I am a good WiFi battler but really it is hard for me to get to EV training due to all the university work I have to do.

Chips, Syrup, Whip~

Yamirami
05-10-2009, 11:10 PM
You're assuming that there's a chance that banning will erase the problem totally. Prove it first.

Well Nintendo and Gamefreak can sue and then make a patch to stop AR and other hacking tools in an event and all other games made in the future, sorta like the berry glitch patch.
Heh heh heh...

Void
05-11-2009, 08:19 AM
Well Nintendo and Gamefreak can sue and then make a patch to stop AR and other hacking tools in an event and all other games made in the future, sorta like the berry glitch patch.
Heh heh heh...

Nintendo and Gamefreak will never bother, and we are not really talking about what Nintendo and Gamefreak will do about it, we're talking about we will do about it. Which is nothing, because we CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Even if we do ban PokeSav, it won't stop, as you really can't tell the difference between a well-hacked Pokemon and a Pokemon you trained yourself.

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-11-2009, 09:35 AM
Well Nintendo and Gamefreak can sue and then make a patch to stop AR and other hacking tools in an event and all other games made in the future, sorta like the berry glitch patch.
Heh heh heh...

First, prove that they will do it. >_>

Oxygen
05-11-2009, 07:42 PM
I don't care, because I don't battle D/P competitively. It won't get banned though. Even if Nintendo find out, no one will listen.

Ahlat
05-11-2009, 11:18 PM
I don't care, because I don't battle D/P competitively. It won't get banned though. Even if Nintendo find out, no one will listen.
Nintendo most likely already knows. Even if they don't and find out they won't really care. As long as they're making their money it's okay with them. =\

spartan117
05-11-2009, 11:23 PM
Who cares if people want to use it let them. Its their games.

CrazyTrainer
05-12-2009, 12:49 AM
What is a pokesav please.

Broderick
05-12-2009, 02:06 AM
What is a pokesav please.

Why are you even posting here if you don't know what pokesav is? Ugh.
Pokesav is a file that you download that allows you to hack your Diamond/Pearl/Platinum save file, with the help of an action replay. You can edit your part pokemon, trainer name, sprite, etc.

Judge Dredd
05-12-2009, 02:45 PM
You're assuming that there's a chance that banning will erase the problem totally. Prove it first.

aww this has become my 2nd favorite thread. i dont have to prove anything, if so this thread would be called can you prove people pokesav...well turns out thats not the title. the title is should we ban it, and for all that is good and fair in forum based around battling, yes WE should ban it. We should ban it for the same reason guns are banned from knife fights. poksav creates an imbalance which forces more people to pokesav its a slippery sloop. Sadly at this point pokesav has gone to far to be stopped to many people have it and have made it ok for everyone to get away with.
The only real way to handel it is to give poksav their own on battling division, the same way shoddy is differnt from wifi battling, poksav should be treated like something different then normal wifi. Since 31ivs on a legit pokemon are very hard to get, all the savers can battle each on a fair playing field.

Broderick
05-12-2009, 04:11 PM
aww this has become my 2nd favorite thread. i dont have to prove anything, if so this thread would be called can you prove people pokesav...well turns out thats not the title. the title is should we ban it, and for all that is good and fair in forum based around battling, yes WE should ban it. We should ban it for the same reason guns are banned from knife fights. poksav creates an imbalance which forces more people to pokesav its a slippery sloop. Sadly at this point pokesav has gone to far to be stopped to many people have it and have made it ok for everyone to get away with.
The only real way to handel it is to give poksav their own on battling division, the same way shoddy is differnt from wifi battling, poksav should be treated like something different then normal wifi. Since 31ivs on a legit pokemon are very hard to get, all the savers can battle each on a fair playing field.

A rather morbid analogy there, but either way, no it doesn't create an un-fair advantage. I know breeders like KageryuEX, who can get flawless IV's, while breeding totally legitimately.

Judge Dredd
05-12-2009, 04:30 PM
A rather morbid analogy there, but either way, no it doesn't create an un-fair advantage. I know breeders like KageryuEX, who can get flawless IV's, while breeding totally legitimately.

one guy, compared to 99 percent of the others..not really enough to matter thier dt.
point being if there had to be a fair trade off that would be the only it would work. thats only if people are willing to do that.

the main point is that pokesav should be banned no matter what people say, because of the potential of cheating is far greater then the potentail of people using it "just for ev training" .

Broderick
05-12-2009, 05:11 PM
one guy, compared to 99 percent of the others..not really enough to matter thier dt.
point being if there had to be a fair trade off that would be the only it would work. thats only if people are willing to do that.

the main point is that pokesav should be banned no matter what people say, because of the potential of cheating is far greater then the potentail of people using it "just for ev training" .

Now you're just being hypocritical. You want pokesav banned because you say it creates an unfair advantage, but when breeders CAN get IV's like the ones produces in pokesav, you're saying it doesn't matter?
Apparently there is no middle ground.

-Pichu Boy-
05-12-2009, 05:45 PM
one guy, compared to 99 percent of the others..not really enough to matter thier dt.
point being if there had to be a fair trade off that would be the only it would work. thats only if people are willing to do that.

the main point is that pokesav should be banned no matter what people say, because of the potential of cheating is far greater then the potentail of people using it "just for ev training".

You're NOW assuming that everyone who uses Pokesav will give their mons flawless IVs.

Not everyone who uses Pokesav will cheat to that extent.

You say it takes long to IV Breed? It take some people long to EV train because they don't have Pokerus/a Macho Item.

Pokesav doesn't make more people have to use Pokesav. That is, again, assuming every Pokesav team is above the legit stats.

And do you have any statistics to prove that the potential for cheating is greater? Because otherwise, you're just guessing.

Ayotui
05-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Now you're just being hypocritical. You want pokesav banned because you say it creates an unfair advantage, but when breeders CAN get IV's like the ones produces in pokesav, you're saying it doesn't matter?
Apparently there is no middle ground.
there is a difference. cause breeders get it through hard work and a lot off patience while pokesav users don,t.

Broderick
05-12-2009, 05:55 PM
there is a difference. cause breeders get it through hard work and a lot off patience while pokesav users don,t.

Sure, you get it through hard work, or through pokesav, either one. It's all just what you want to do. The topic that Unreal Shadow Tracker is saying is that Pokesav'd mons create an unfair advantage to legimately bred pokemon, which isn't true.

Judge Dredd
05-12-2009, 06:53 PM
You're NOW assuming that everyone who uses Pokesav will give their mons flawless IVs.

Not everyone who uses Pokesav will cheat to that extent.

You say it takes long to IV Breed? It take some people long to EV train because they don't have Pokerus/a Macho Item.

Pokesav doesn't make more people have to use Pokesav. That is, again, assuming every Pokesav team is above the legit stats.

And do you have any statistics to prove that the potential for cheating is greater? Because otherwise, you're just guessing.

first, i can assume that a device made to be hack pokemon is going to be used to hack pokemon, its just comes down to how much the pokemon are hacked. In my eyes there is no difference between the one or the other. But thats not the point here. I can prove that more pokemon pokesav have altered stats then breed pokemon..lol...as funny as that sounds its what were talking about. to just assume that everyone goes on the honor system cuase you do is not logical.
i get why you guys are mad about the thought of it, but real pokemon trainers will go back to training the normal way if pokesavd gets banned because they love pokemon..the ones who leave were the one more inclined to use ar to cheat.

Broderick
05-12-2009, 07:53 PM
first, i can assume that a device made to be hack pokemon is going to be used to hack pokemon, its just comes down to how much the pokemon are hacked. In my eyes there is no difference between the one or the other. But thats not the point here. I can prove that more pokemon pokesav have altered stats then breed pokemon..lol...as funny as that sounds its what were talking about. to just assume that everyone goes on the honor system cuase you do is not logical.
i get why you guys are mad about the thought of it, but real pokemon trainers will go back to training the normal way if pokesavd gets banned because they love pokemon..the ones who leave were the one more inclined to use ar to cheat.

Yes, I would go back to breeding if Pokesav were to get banned. You make a valid point though, hacked pokemon are hacked pokemon. It just depends on if their stats are legitimate.
Although I'd really like to see how you can prove more people that use pokesav hack beyond legal limits than the ones that don't.

Judge Dredd
05-12-2009, 08:09 PM
Yes, I would go back to breeding if Pokesav were to get banned. You make a valid point though, hacked pokemon are hacked pokemon. It just depends on if their stats are legitimate.
Although I'd really like to see how you can prove more people that use pokesav hack beyond legal limits than the ones that don't.

it really does, and me being against pokesavd is saying that pokesaver are less of battlers, cause i never said that.

It be impossible to prove that because people could switch their pokemon around, and even have a copy of the same but with different stats. Thats way its should be banned, no point in risking it

Ah Beng I the Pikabeng
05-13-2009, 09:27 AM
it really does, and me being against pokesavd is saying that pokesaver are less of battlers, cause i never said that.

It be impossible to prove that because people could switch their pokemon around, and even have a copy of the same but with different stats. Thats way its should be banned, no point in risking it

If you are so scared of cheating, just have someone check whether the Pokemon that are going to be used are too powerful in any one stat. That would deter cheating and also allow Pokesav to be used legitimately. A win-win situation.