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View Full Version : Why do whites get all the blame for slavery?


Bashaamo
07-14-2005, 04:04 AM
Hi,

My friend and I were discussing about this at work after J.P. Morgan Co. gave $5 million to go to an African-American scholarship fund, as reparations for slavery.

And when I say slavery I am reffering specifically to slavery in North and South America from the 16th century on. The importing of slaves from Africa in exchange for goods. Granted a large amount of the slaves were captured outright by white traders and shipped to the Americas.

However there was a sizeable percentage of slaves (and I'll try to find some numbers later if you want them) of African slaves that were sold to the Europeans for goods and resources. The slaves that were sold were usually members of a tribe that had been conquered and the survivors were forced into servitude by the conquerers.

Later on some black Africans even captured innocent people to make some money in this slave trade. The black Africans were eager to sell people for money or goods.

But we usually only hear about whites who burst into Africa, slashed and killed and shipped the survivors overseas. While I am not denying that terrible events like this happend, white people are not the only ones who captured these people and sold them. They too are guilty of slavery.

My question is why are guilty Africans never blamed for their crimes? Why not go to the modern day nation states in Africa where these traders thrived and force their governments to give money to African-Americans? I certainly don't agree but if you follow the logic...

Here is a small article that talks a bit about it although I can't assure it's 100% accuracy or will I agree with the rest of the site content: http://www.seanbryson.com/articles/black_slave_traders.html

Two informative Wiki's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_slave_trade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

Ok lets talke on this a bit.

-Bash

Neo Emolga
07-14-2005, 04:16 AM
And no one considers that a very large group of people that are getting this blame immigrated from many countries in Europe to come to America, my parents included. Yet, even we're getting the blame because, yep, you guessed it, we're white. Why are we getting punished for something even our ancestors didn't do? I mean come on, it's bad enough that pure Americans have to pay for something their ancestors did. Why should they have to pay for a crime they themselves never took part in?

And let's keep going why don't we? If this is going to become the regular scheme of things, Germany is going to have to pay one killer paycheck to the people of Poland and so on for what they did. And we'll have to give money to Japan for the bombing, and Japan will have to give money to us for the bombing of Pearl Harbor and so on.

Retribution or easy money? To me, it sounds like the later. The African Americans of today never once felt the pain of slavery, and never once did we put it onto them. To me, it's wrong for them to demand money like this.

AlakazamTrainer
07-14-2005, 05:19 AM
Okay do we have to start on this about like 50 years ago there was slavery the white people treated blacks with disrespect the whites were lazy they could not do it them selves the whites were just jealous because of the blacks cause they were more intelligent (under ground railroad) they were just jealous cause they thought haveing white skin was the best and they did not like anyone with a darker skin color cause of their race.Well why shouldn't whites be blamed? Do you see any white slaves?NO so in my opinion whites are to blame.

By the way i am mexican so my ancestors were not here in the US they were in Mexico and Spain :biggrin:. We kept to ourselves we like everyone until the whites started racism on us. sorry for using white and black but i don't see verymany white people where i live.i don't like racism we are all the same in alot of ways look in the BIBLE cause i know it is in there somewhere about everyone being equal and god made us all the same we all have a (heart,lungs ot lung,mouth,spit,hair)

DaRkUmBrEoN
07-14-2005, 09:38 AM
Okay do we have to start on this about like 50 years ago there was slavery the white people treated blacks with disrespect the whites were lazy they could not do it them selves the whites were just jealous because of the blacks cause they were more intelligent (under ground railroad) they were just jealous cause they thought haveing white skin was the best and they did not like anyone with a darker skin color cause of their race.Well why shouldn't whites be blamed? Do you see any white slaves?NO so in my opinion whites are to blame.
Does it seem wrong if I was suprised if those type of people bragged if they had a nicer tan then others. Sorry, while I laugh my head off.
And as a mather of fact, there were white slaves. Although a couple of centuries before the 1600's. And mostly because they were conquered tribes in times of the Romans.

And no one considers that a very large group of people that are getting this blame immigrated from many countries in Europe to come to America, my parents included. Yet, even we're getting the blame because, yep, you guessed it, we're white. Why are we getting punished for something even our ancestors didn't do? I mean come on, it's bad enough that pure Americans have to pay for something their ancestors did. Why should they have to pay for a crime they themselves never took part in?
Well that's because people want a someone to be responsible. And if they can't find an exact person, they blame a whole group. It's sad but true. There are more actual examples nowadays.

Later on some black Africans even captured innocent people to make some money in this slave trade. The black Africans were eager to sell people for money or goods.

But we usually only hear about whites who burst into Africa, slashed and killed and shipped the survivors overseas. While I am not denying that terrible events like this happend, white people are not the only ones who captured these people and sold them. They too are guilty of slavery.

Ok you are right on this, but you are not considering the entire problem. Ever wondered why the black Africans did that? It seems to me they did it to prevent that they were shipped away as slaves. And the "white", just to show who I mean, slave traders didn't mind, because it propably saved them time and ammo. So it would be profitable to scare the "black" traders to get them some materials.

Incongruity
07-14-2005, 03:26 PM
When considering the "blame" for slavery... It should not be re-distributed. Rather, more blame should be added, instead of blame being taken from whites and added onto blacks. For example, let's say there are 100 "units" of blame to place on whites, and nothing else. It shouldn't go 70 "units" of blame and 30 "units" to the blacks in order to balance it out. Rather, it should go 100 "units" and 30 "units" to the blacks. This is because everything the whites are blamed for is true, yet the blacks are at fault as well.

btw, the black Africans who sold their people are Africans and not African-Americans. The African-Americans are the ones who are supposed to get the retribution payment. While undoubtedly some Africans immigrated into the United States AFTER the slavery era (which is very possible, considering the two other eras of imperialism that immediately took over Africa as soon as slavery ended), I'm willing to bet the majority of blacks in the United States have been rooted there for a while.


to the white slave comment: lmao. Slavery at the scale experienced in Rome was nothing compared to the massive immigration of a continent into Latin America. Forget about the United States; we hardly had any slaves compared to many other nations.









Overall, this argument is based on the "white persecution complex." It basically makes a fool out of whoever uses it. Whites not only occupy a majority of the population, but they also occupy a (disproportionate) majority of the power. It has been this way since the United States was formed. Paying reparations is the least of your worries, seeing as how you control everything.

As Jon Stewart said about the "Christian persecution complex," perhaps we can finally one day have a white president... or 43... consecutively.

Bashaamo
07-14-2005, 06:09 PM
Okay do we have to start on this about like 50 years ago there was slavery the white people treated blacks with disrespect the whites were lazy they could not do it them selves the whites were just jealous because of the blacks cause they were more intelligent (under ground railroad) they were just jealous cause they thought haveing white skin was the best and they did not like anyone with a darker skin color cause of their race.Well why shouldn't whites be blamed? Do you see any white slaves?NO so in my opinion whites are to blame.

Wow, what a stupid, misinformed thing to say. First off not every white family has slave-owning ancestors. Many came from other countries after slavery (like my ancestors) and generally you had to be very wealthy to own and care for a person. Slaveowners were always a minority of whites.

Also why would someone be jealous of something (underground railroad) if they didn't know it existed? And the underground railroad would not have been possible in part without the White Christians who sheltered people in their homes along the way.

White people too have been the victims of slavery. It used to be common place to keep your conquered enemies as servants and slaves. Just look at Rome, they killed their slaves for entertainment!

And why should we be blamed for the "sins of our fathers." That is just outright un-American. IMO everyone who is born in this country has a clean slate regardless if their ancestors were slave owners or serial killers. If there is ever a proposed reparation tax I will protest.

By the way i am mexican so my ancestors were not here in the US they were in Mexico and Spain :biggrin:. We kept to ourselves we like everyone until the whites started racism on us. sorry for using white and black but i don't see verymany white people where i live.i don't like racism we are all the same in alot of ways look in the BIBLE cause i know it is in there somewhere about everyone being equal and god made us all the same we all have a (heart,lungs ot lung,mouth,spit,hair)

Your Spanish ancestors were just as guilty of slavery and crimes against humans. Just look at the Native American population before and after the Spanish Conquests.

Also if you've ever read the bible (sometimes I think I'm the only person who has ever read the bible and doesn't just make assumptions) the Old Testament condones slavery and even sets up rules for keeping and owning slaves. Slavery, Racism and Xenephobia were comon in Biblical times. However as I see it Jesus was a champion of abolition and equality and any true Christian should be appaled by these crimes. But I won't claim that their is no slavery in the Bible.

Bashaamo
07-14-2005, 06:13 PM
Ok you are right on this, but you are not considering the entire problem. Ever wondered why the black Africans did that? It seems to me they did it to prevent that they were shipped away as slaves. And the "white", just to show who I mean, slave traders didn't mind, because it propably saved them time and ammo. So it would be profitable to scare the "black" traders to get them some materials.

You underestimate the power and influnence of African Kings. Some of these rulers were very capable of figthing off the whites. Just look at Shaka Zulu that guy was very powerful and influential.

Also guns at this time were not quite yet the military advantage that we think of them as today.

Bashaamo
07-14-2005, 06:21 PM
Overall, this argument is based on the "white persecution complex." It basically makes a fool out of whoever uses it. Whites not only occupy a majority of the population, but they also occupy a (disproportionate) majority of the power. It has been this way since the United States was formed. Paying reparations is the least of your worries, seeing as how you control everything.

It is not my problem at all. I have never taken part in slavery nor my decendents back as far as I can trace then back. I should not have to pay any money nor anyone, no one alive today was a slaveowner in American. And no one desrves any money because no one today was ever a slave in America!

As Jon Stewart said about the "Christian persecution complex," perhaps we can finally one day have a white president... or 43... consecutively.

Lets us not forget not every president was a Christian.

DaRkUmBrEoN
07-14-2005, 06:28 PM
You underestimate the power and influnence of African Kings. Some of these rulers were very capable of figthing off the whites. Just look at Shaka Zulu that guy was very powerful and influential.

Yes, but not all were that powerfull. So instead of talking about the exceptions you should look at the majority.

Also guns at this time were not quite yet the military advantage that we think of them as today.
But they beat sticks and stones.
The bold parts are my comments.

blahblah
07-14-2005, 06:29 PM
I think what that mexican-spaniard guy means is that he is part mexican native american. Unlike the other people who conquered lands..the Spaniards made blood ties by mixing with the mexican people, thus making biological alliances...they weren't really slaves of the spaniards..more like forced allies..

!CeMAn
07-14-2005, 10:10 PM
White people get all the blame because the white man is 'the man' who is "holding the black man down". Way too many black people want a scape goat because they can't get their **** together. How many years ago was slavery abolished in the United States?? The fact that somebody is still whining about it and wants, as Neo put it "easy money" for retribution sickens me.

it's true that black Africans and Egyptians were selling eachother off as slaves many years before Europeans jumped on the band wagon. What, are they just pissed because white people made slavery a friggin industry and took all the credit?

How about retribution for all the whites who died, caught in between black gang-related violence in the last 20 years? How about retribution cash for all the punitive damages caused by Chris Rock's(and countless other black comedians) mockeries of the "white folk"? Why doesn't somebody pay back all the dollars white people earned and then paid in taxes to cover some drug dealer's Welfare check, pointlessly, only to have him wind up in jail?

Slavery ended over 100 years ago. They're sorry. Get over it.

JohtoTrainer
07-14-2005, 10:19 PM
I totally agree with you, !ce. There are a lot of black people who think that a lot of things are racist, which really aren't. Jesse Jackson being one of them. When in reality, they are being racist against white people more than we are being racist against them. Then when they are confronted about it, they say "Well, my great grandparents were slaves! I can say what I want to you."

Then when they use the N word, they are being derogitory towards their ancestors. Watch "Coach Carter" he has a great explanation of why black people should not use the N word. And that's what I've been thinking all my life. Then a white person says the N Word, and they're ready to fight. It's just stupid. Velly jumped all over ...IT... because he said the N word in the Mixed Voting Polls, but ...IT... was just using it to describe a title of a song. Velly said "You better be black if you're saying that word." NOBODY SHOULD SAY IT IF IT OFFENDS YOU THAT MUCH.

AlakazamTrainer
07-14-2005, 10:23 PM
okay in there were white slaves(which i highly doubt)who gotta harsher punishmet white or black people k if a white man stole a piece of food and black man stole a piece of food who got the worst punishment?the white man got of with a slap on the hand and the black man got killed. mexicans werent as bad as the white people it slavery either :susp:

As for the question who else should be blamed Why do whites get all the blame for slavery?

Bashaamo
07-15-2005, 02:00 AM
okay in there were white slaves(which i highly doubt)who gotta harsher punishmet white or black people k if a white man stole a piece of food and black man stole a piece of food who got the worst punishment?the white man got of with a slap on the hand and the black man got killed. mexicans werent as bad as the white people it slavery either :susp:

As for the question who else should be blamed Why do whites get all the blame for slavery?

Your post makes no sense.

AlakazamTrainer
07-15-2005, 06:36 AM
THIS IS WHAT I MEAN OKAY IF A WHITE MAN AND A BLACK MAN WERE BOTH SLAVES AND THEY STOLE FROM THE OWNER WHO WOULD GET THE WORST PUNISHMENT THE BLACK GUY BECAUSE OF HIS SKIN COLOR. O AND FOR YOUR QUESTION WHY DO WHITES GET ALL THE BLAME FOR SLAVERY? WHY NOT DID YOU SEE ANY BLACK,MEXICAN,CHINESE,JAPANESE,INDIAN,PAKISTANI(PE OPLE WITH COLOR IN GENERAL) PEOPLE WHO HAD A WHITE SLAVE NO THEY DID NOT HAVE WHITE SLAVES BUT THE WHITE PEOPLE BACK THEN HAD TO BE BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE.AND I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT THERE WERE WHITE SLAVES, THERE MIGHT OF BEEN WHITE POOR PEOPLE BUT NO SLAVE I HAVE NEVER READ OF A WHITE SLAVE EVER :goofy: THAT IS SO FUNNY A WHITE SLAVE BACK THEN THEY WERE BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE SUPPOSIVELY. :crackup:(BLAH BLAH) IS RIGHT THEY MADE A BLOOD TIES SO THERE WERE NO SLAVES SO MEXICANS WERE NOT SLAVE OWNERS WHITE PEOPLE WERE! LMAO :crackup:

TO:BASHAAMO(BY THE WAY I AM NOT AN AMERICAN MY FAMILY CAME HERE LIKE 10 YEARS AGO FROM MEXICO)

Pryce
07-15-2005, 04:43 PM
This is indeed true, back then, if a black person committed a crime, he or she would get the worse punishment compared to a white person who committed the same crime.

There actually have been white slaves, but these slaves were to other whites even further back in time such as Roman times and these slaves were used for entertainment. Gladiators about 2,000 years ago were slaves and were forced to fight eachother and animals. For the most part, these gladiators were white. These people were forced to fight to the death while in our most recently dated slavery, people were forced to earn money for their owners and lived as long as they did what they were told.

Bashaamo
07-16-2005, 04:52 AM
That argument you're using does not have anything to do with what the discussion is about. Your talking about racism in punishment while this converstation is about the industry of slavery and who is at the roots of it.

AlakazamTrainer
07-16-2005, 09:12 AM
That argument you're using does not have anything to do with what the discussion is about. Your talking about racism in punishment while this converstation is about the industry of slavery and who is at the roots of it.

To:Bashaamo:
The industry of slavery white people ran that.White people are the roots of slavery.Look even Pryce sayed roman times White slaves were owned by White people.So in my opinion until you can come up with FACTS that colored people had as much slaves as White people..I will think that White people caused it.Okay ask one of you Black friends and see what they say who is the roots of Slavery?Whites or Colored people.More then likely they will say White people are.I even asked some White personi work with and they say White people were the roots of slavery

Bashaamo
07-16-2005, 07:19 PM
Me=BOLD
To:Bashaamo:
The industry of slavery white people ran that.with help from African kings and warrirors who sold them their slavesWhite people are the roots of slavery.slavery is a global issue. Today black and arab slave traders still exist.Look even Pryce sayed roman times White slaves were owned by White people.So in my opinion until you can come up with FACTS that colored people had as much slaves as White peopleThat is not the debate. The debate is should black African countries whom exported slaves be blamed for slavery. Read some links on page one or do your own reaserch before making false assumptions..I will think that White people caused it.Okay ask one of you Black friends and see what they say who is the roots of Slavery?Whites or Colored people.More then likely they will say White people are.If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too? Facts, not concensus make things rightI even asked some White personi work with and they say White people were the roots of slaveryFacts, not mere concensus make things right or wrong

Kenny_C.002
07-19-2005, 04:31 AM
Well historically it does seem that "white cultures" have dominated the slavery business the longest. Although I'm still sketchy on that, since the Chinese many also be first on this too. While we can argue about slavery now, we must be reminded that slavery back then (e.g. Roman times) was different than slavery now.

Generally slaves in the past were of the poor families that sold people in order to live, and often those who did not sell themselves would have died of hunger. Others are simply prisoners of war. In that sense, slavery is more like capital punishment for some, while an occupation for others.

That was back then, and do recall that back then the first type of slave generally goes to homes to care for the families and generally are granted citizenship after (not that much different from Phillipines people going to Hong Kong as full-time housemaids for the rich right now), whereas the other type generally are put into mines to die. Gladiatorial combats consisted primarily of slaves, but there are also many Roman citizens too.

Now of course, people are generally forced into slavery sand savagery, which is different than before. So while the root of slavery may not be of "bad intention", now it is. Whoever does get the blame for slavery doesn't really matter since in the beginning, the thought of slavery wasn't of "bad intention".