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Old 09-28-2010, 02:12 AM
Hassan_Descartes_AbdAllah's Avatar
Hassan_Descartes_AbdAllah Offline
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Default Re: Origin of the universe?

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The thing is with me... I won't pretend I'm some expert on the Big Bang Theory or something like that. But doesn't the Big Bang Theory say that the Universe was created by two specks colliding or something? Where did the specks come from?

A Rule of Science: something can't come from nothing.
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Actually, there are many theories that say that something can come out of nothing, because nothing is too unstable for example, or that two opposite something can, which together are equal to nothing (matter and antimatter). But I won't bet my life on it. It's quite funny though.
Well actually thats not the definition of nothingness. Matter and antimatter which would cancel out each other so that we have zero amount of matter at the end of the day, thats not nothing. Nothing in fact is an idea that has no attributes. And from an idea where there is no particle nor waves there cannot form new particles. That would be against the law of causality. Some people try to bring Quantum Mechanics into this, but resorting to Quantum Mechanics to bring an explanation as to how matter forms from nothingness, thats just personal, and in fact biased, interpretation.

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...Then again, that raises the question of where God came from. I won't get into that. Makes my head hurt.
To get the answer to this question, consider this: When you say "Where God came from", ask yourself: why is it so that everything has to come from another thing/being/whatever. The answer we get is the Law of Causality, that an effect cannot take place without a cause (think about a set of falling dominoes, Domino number x falls because domino number x-1 pushed it). However what we forget is that the Law of Causality is a Physical Law ascribable to Nature. In other words, anything that is confined within the physical world, abiding by the laws of nature, would abide by this law as well. Basically heres your answer: is God confined within the Physical World? And/or bound by the laws of Nature? the answer is a resounding No. Therefore, Since God is not restricted to Nature, the Laws of Nature shouldnt be attributed to him. Hence Causality doesnt apply to Him either. He exists without a Cause. How is that Possible? since He is outside the Physical world, thus not bound by the laws of causality.

Bottomline: the "who created God" argument is old and has been beaten to death quite a few million times. And the explanation is simplistic as well. There is no reason whatsoever why it should make your head hurt :-p

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I totally agree. That's why, in my opinion, we want a God or something superior, "the meaning of Life", to exist.
Im getting pretty tired of saying this, but blind hypothesizing doesnt really help anyone.

If you have an authoritative evidence for what you claim, or pragmatic reason to believe it, bring it forth, we would dissect it and see if it appeals to rationalism.

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Originally Posted by ScubatheDiverman View Post
"God created the heavens and the earth." That's all I need as a Chirstian.

But I really don't care about this whole "Origin of the Universe" argument. People have choose there own answers to this question, rather it's the Big Bang or Creation, if it helps you through the day, then that is all that matters. I personally think we will never find the answer, no, we're not suppose to find the answer. It's really all about faith and faith doesn't exisit when you know the answer.
Many people dont think about this, but faith requires reasonable justification as well. Not that you need to write these on paper and make a long argument to believe, but without reasoning, there is no justification for anything, not even faith.

When Jesus(peace be upon him) came to this earth, he performed miracles for this exact reason. Just going around the place and telling people to have faith wouldnt make sense at all. He needed to give Reason for his people to believe. His miracles spoke out thus: "These are Signs that this man has been sent by God. So believe in what he says, for this belief is justified with reason." The Christian Tradition conformed to this until very recently.

Same goes for the Prophets preceding him. God always sends His Prophets armed with Miracles and Divine Signs, so that people know Truth from Falsehood. Otherwise every weirdo on the street could come up to people and ask them to have faith in whatever "Divine" message have been "revealed" to them.

For nearly two thousand years, the Church held that Religion is based on Intellect, and not merely Faith. This gave rise to Savants such as St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Augustine. "Faith is Enough Reason" is just a new thing people have invented: it has no actual basis in the Doctrinal teachings of any religion.

If God wants us to believe, He would give us reason to believe in it. Thats the Crux of the Matter.

Triple post merged. Please use edit function.
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Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 09-28-2010 at 06:15 AM. Reason: deleted a misleading parenthetical comment.
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