Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:11 AM
Retro-Smasher's Avatar
Retro-Smasher Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portside, lower deck, in a hammock!
Posts: 1,479
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
What's the difference between one supernatural phenomenon against another supernatural phenomenon?
Dude, I was joking. I don't actually believe in spirits. Religion to me is just a stupid waste of time and an excuse for people to stop other people from doing things they don't want them to do (AKA, The seven supposed deadly sins)
__________________

Thanks Mw!
Smashing Stats
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-18-2010, 05:19 AM
karmachameleon's Avatar
karmachameleon Offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,223
Send a message via AIM to karmachameleon
Default Re: Religion

A religion hasn't spoken to me yet, so I guess I would say I'm an agnostic. However, the prevalence of conic sections, a human discovery, in nature such as planetary orbits (ellipse), a comet's path after encountering gravity (hyperbola), and trajectory (parabola) lead me to believe there is some sort of higher power. It's probably Glenn Beck. Support the Tea Party.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-18-2010, 06:41 AM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
A religion hasn't spoken to me yet, so I guess I would say I'm an agnostic. However, the prevalence of conic sections, a human discovery, in nature such as planetary orbits (ellipse), a comet's path after encountering gravity (hyperbola), and trajectory (parabola) lead me to believe there is some sort of higher power. It's probably Glenn Beck. Support the Tea Party.
For me it was actually the moon. I was in the middle of studying the eclipse for a science class and it just randomly struck me. The position of the moon relative to the earth is just far enough that, when it passes in front of the sun, it blocks it out almost completely except for a single ring in what is arguably the most beautiful vision that can possibly be viewed with the naked eye. Anything else beautiful in nature I can buy simple science doing that. Abiogenesis? Sure. Canyons? Sure. Mountains? Sure. But what are the odds that the moon's orbit would end up at that exact right distance for its precise size? That just pushed me over the edge into deism. I still don't believe that the higher power does anything anymore though (unless it is Glenn Beck, in which case I don't want to live in his world).
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-18-2010, 10:17 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Khajmer View Post
For me it was actually the moon. I was in the middle of studying the eclipse for a science class and it just randomly struck me. The position of the moon relative to the earth is just far enough that, when it passes in front of the sun, it blocks it out almost completely except for a single ring in what is arguably the most beautiful vision that can possibly be viewed with the naked eye. Anything else beautiful in nature I can buy simple science doing that. Abiogenesis? Sure. Canyons? Sure. Mountains? Sure. But what are the odds that the moon's orbit would end up at that exact right distance for its precise size? That just pushed me over the edge into deism. I still don't believe that the higher power does anything anymore though (unless it is Glenn Beck, in which case I don't want to live in his world).
Actually "total" eclipses are rare, annual and partial eclipses where the moon is smaller than the sun resulting in a ring around it or is only partially obscuring the sun are much more common. However, because the moon's distance from the Earth varies by quite a bit, sooner or later it will cover the sun at just the right distance... so even that is not beyond probability.

There's also a theory that without the right-sized moon at the right distance, life as we know it could not exist as a large moon at the proper distance stabilizes a planet's axis, stopping it from rolling around so much, meaning massive climate changes that could prevent advanced lifeforms from evolving. So there's that.

As for the geometric argument... math strives to describe the physical universe, if it didn't we wouldn't have math. We focus so much on conics because they are useful. If they weren't, we'd find something else that describes motion, and then we'd see that as a sign from God.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 11-18-2010 at 10:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-19-2010, 05:55 AM
The Maple Syrup Baptist Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In Canada being Canadian.
Posts: 7,123
Send a message via AIM to The Maple Syrup Baptist Send a message via MSN to The Maple Syrup Baptist
Default Re: Religion

You guys should read Biocentrism. It's pretty interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-19-2010, 03:18 PM
Tombi's Avatar
Tombi Offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Blighty.
Posts: 10,337
Send a message via AIM to Tombi Send a message via MSN to Tombi Send a message via Skype™ to Tombi
Default Re: Religion

I'm an atheist. My family aren't religious, apart from my Turkish uncle who is Muslim. The only religion I've really come into much contact with is Christianity which I hate with every fibre of my being. I understand how people want something to hold onto and believe, to feel secure in this massive world, but I despise the foundations it was built upon.

I hate the things that took place when people didn't convert to Christianity
I hate the treatment of the Pagans and the whole 'don't talk about Pagans if you're Christian' thing
I hate the removal of human freedoms
I hate the threatening leaflets I get through my door
I hate how God orders rape, pillage, killing, murder, hatred, sex trafficking and general wars and massacres in the Bible
I hate how most things in the Bible are written in a biased and very sexist way
I hate how it's brainwashing and a way for people to control 'the people'

This is also highly interesting, as is the website itself.
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

Also this.

Quote:
“Thou shall not kill”
God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
Sorry, but I don't want to worship something based on all this ****. It makes me feel sick, not loved.

I leave you with this. Read the lyrics online.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-19-2010, 06:11 PM
Neo Emolga's Avatar
Neo Emolga Offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Reading your mind
Posts: 21,704
Send a message via AIM to Neo Emolga
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombi View Post
I'm an atheist. My family aren't religious, apart from my Turkish uncle who is Muslim. The only religion I've really come into much contact with is Christianity which I hate with every fibre of my being. I understand how people want something to hold onto and believe, to feel secure in this massive world, but I despise the foundations it was built upon.
I'll admit, I've read the Bible and there's a lot about the Old Testament that I don't understand either. Yes, it does contradict itself. Even the book of Micah criticizes and objects to things that happened in the previous books, and the book of Isaiah illustrates changes from what happened before to what happened at the time of its writing.

From what I gather, Christianity seems to be more on the belief that the Old Testament is kind of "yesterday's news" and that the New Testament is what really should be followed. Still, I don't get how the church can adamantly enforce some parts of the Bible, and then deny the parts of others. And then besides that, it seems like the church has also messed around with the Bible as well, translating it in incorrect ways, taking out some parts, and so on.

Truth be told, we live in a very imperfect world, and according to basic logic, nothing can be completely perfect. Is it possible there are mistakes in the Bible? Possibly. Could there be a chance maybe that not even God is perfect? Possibly. I think its safe to say God is capable of a lot, but absolute perfection throughout all universal contexts really can't be possible. And if we look at Earth, sure, compared to other planets, it is truly capable of fantastic things and displays so much more life and possibility than other planets. But its true, its not perfect. The truth is, if God were perfect, then everything He creates, man, the Earth, and all life alike, should be perfect as well. But that's not the case.

In any case, I'm still a Christian, but I don't actively go to church. To me, the church has really turned into a horribly corrupt institution that goes out of its way to find faults in others but doesn't examine and address the faults in itself. In terms of creation, I think there's far too much evidence to prove intelligent design with the Earth in terms of balanced ecosystems, atmosphere to support life, living conditions and adaptability of organisms to respond to changes, and so on. To me, that seems like an awful lot of architectural layout and complexity that could really only be accomplished through intelligent design as opposed to coincidence and happenstance. Meanwhile, I like the New Testament, there's a lot of teachings that Jesus Christ makes that could really inspire someone to do a whole lot of good. For example, Luke 14: 13-14, "But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and thou shalt be blessed, for they cannot recompense thee." If you were to see someone doing something like that today, you too, would find that really commendable. Because of that, I don't think the Bible is all bad and all wrong like that site suggests. Yes, there are parts of it that are questionable. I just have the feeling that if God really is forgiving, He will allow everything to be made clear without repercussions, and the ambiguity that we don't quite understand will then make logical sense.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:17 PM
Trent Reznor's Avatar
Trent Reznor Offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,626
Send a message via AIM to Trent Reznor Send a message via MSN to Trent Reznor Send a message via Skype™ to Trent Reznor
Default Re: Religion

I'm Catholic, but I flutter toward the agnostic side.

Last edited by Trent Reznor; 11-19-2010 at 07:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:23 AM
Retro-Smasher's Avatar
Retro-Smasher Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portside, lower deck, in a hammock!
Posts: 1,479
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombi View Post
I'm an atheist. My family aren't religious, apart from my Turkish uncle who is Muslim. The only religion I've really come into much contact with is Christianity which I hate with every fibre of my being. I understand how people want something to hold onto and believe, to feel secure in this massive world, but I despise the foundations it was built upon.

I hate the things that took place when people didn't convert to Christianity
I hate the treatment of the Pagans and the whole 'don't talk about Pagans if you're Christian' thing
I hate the removal of human freedoms
I hate the threatening leaflets I get through my door
I hate how God orders rape, pillage, killing, murder, hatred, sex trafficking and general wars and massacres in the Bible
I hate how most things in the Bible are written in a biased and very sexist way
I hate how it's brainwashing and a way for people to control 'the people'

This is also highly interesting, as is the website itself.
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

Also this.



Sorry, but I don't want to worship something based on all this ****. It makes me feel sick, not loved.

I leave you with this. Read the lyrics online.
I love you. That was a beautiful. My views exactly.
__________________

Thanks Mw!
Smashing Stats
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Larvinator's Avatar
Larvinator Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N/A
Posts: 2,140
Send a message via AIM to Larvinator Send a message via Skype™ to Larvinator
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Pikachu View Post
From what I gather, Christianity seems to be more on the belief that the Old Testament is kind of "yesterday's news" and that the New Testament is what really should be followed.
Ahh, your post is such a refreshing breath of sanity.

Honestly, I don't understand the whole "Christians are terrible terrible people because of what they did in the Middle Ages!" argument. That was kind of a really long time ago; blaming today's Christians for yestermilennium's travesties is pretty much in the same vein as calling out today's Americans for condoning slavery, or today's Germans for being Nazis.

Anyway, today's Christians are usually quite nice and casual about the whole thing, barring the stupid people ruining it for the rest of them like fundamentalists. The core values of Christianity are really in the New Testament, and they're quite simple and nice and don't mention anything about stoning the gays or God flying around leveling cities.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The KKK Official Site
The Ku Klux Klan, LLC. has not or EVER will have ANY connection with The "Westboro Baptist Church".
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-20-2010, 03:54 PM
Tombi's Avatar
Tombi Offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Blighty.
Posts: 10,337
Send a message via AIM to Tombi Send a message via MSN to Tombi Send a message via Skype™ to Tombi
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larvinator View Post
Honestly, I don't understand the whole "Christians are terrible terrible people because of what they did in the Middle Ages!" argument.
People aren't going to forget the Holocaust in hundreds of years time, are they? If the Nazi's returned and half of them stayed with the same views and half of them turned into sweetness and light, I doubt we'd be as understanding as we for some reason are with the Christians.

They freak out when someone burns a church, and convieniantly forget all the sacred places they burnt themselves, and the ruins of top of which they built their own churches. I don't care if they weren't there during the vicious murders of Pagan priests, their religion was still built upon massacre and hatred. That's why I refuse to accept it. It's sick and so god damn wrong.

No rage at you Larvi, ilu ♥
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-20-2010, 05:41 PM
Neo Emolga's Avatar
Neo Emolga Offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Reading your mind
Posts: 21,704
Send a message via AIM to Neo Emolga
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombi View Post


People aren't going to forget the Holocaust in hundreds of years time, are they? If the Nazi's returned and half of them stayed with the same views and half of them turned into sweetness and light, I doubt we'd be as understanding as we for some reason are with the Christians.

They freak out when someone burns a church, and convieniantly forget all the sacred places they burnt themselves, and the ruins of top of which they built their own churches. I don't care if they weren't there during the vicious murders of Pagan priests, their religion was still built upon massacre and hatred. That's why I refuse to accept it. It's sick and so god damn wrong.

No rage at you Larvi, ilu ♥
Actually, this would be more like calling normal, everyday Germans Nazis instead. Again, to blame someone for the sins of their fathers isn't fair.

Also, I don't agree with with the Catholic Church did to Pagans either. I see your point, but it just seems like you're generalizing all Christians with what Christians have done in the past. As a Christian myself, there are things Christian leaders have done throughout history that make me sick just as much as you are when looking at what was done. And this is coming from someone that was confirmed by a bishop who was later involved with those child molestation scandals that the church has been involved in. I don't think I need to mention that was probably the main leading reason why I stopped going to church in the first place, among other disappointments.

I totally understand your anger though, and that fact that after two thousand years of silence from God, it does seem hard to follow without any news, guidance, or even a sign after all this time. But there are still plenty of us that feel the same way you do, and that the things that have happen throughout history are disgusting and deplorable. Still, there are many of us that still want to believe and follow the good and positive teachings of these religions, and hopefully rise above whatever atrocities were committed in the past, living for today and working toward a better and more peaceful tomorrow.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-20-2010, 05:48 PM
Scourge of Amaranth's Avatar
Scourge of Amaranth Offline
PE2K Website Staff
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I swear I'm not
Posts: 1,627
Send a message via AIM to Scourge of Amaranth
Default Re: Religion

Two things.

One: The religion was actually based on events that occurred multiple centuries before the middle ages. Regardless of what Christianity became in later years, it was not built upon massacre and hatred. Additionally, the actions of the Crusaders was a problem of the Catholic papacy (which many Christians today reject) and religious manipulation, rather than the religion itself. Many of the beliefs that sanctioned and facilitated the Crusades were political propaganda that had no roots in the actual religion; many others are beliefs specific to Catholic denominations that many modern Christians rejected by sheer institution of the sixteenth century Reformation. If significant portions of the religion have struggled to deliberately separate themselves from the ideologies that the ancient Catholic church held (many of which, again, are what lead to the abuse of the Crusades), how can you hold it against the full religion? What the Crusaders did was disgusting, yes. However, they were ultimately pawns. I would argue that it is illogical to blame the Catholic Crusaders, even, and instead place the blame upon the various political parties that brought the Crusades into existence and used religion as an excuse to fuel them.

Two: How do you feel about Egyptian dualists? Roman polytheists? Mormons? Muslims? Hindus? Buddhists? If you're going to reject religions based upon the volume of misguidedly religious killing they do, you better expect to reject the whole lot. The Buddhists were killing each other before the Christians even got to the Crusades; Roman polytheism is based entirely upon the subjugation of other religions and countries, acquired through war; Mormons have fancied themselves up to look like Indians and looted, then massacred Americans (and also, they adopted all the dead Americans' children); Muslims and Hindus were having massive spats pretty recently, and there was a lot of razing going on there--not to mention the suicide bombers in America. Misguided. Not supported by the religion. Political. All of these. But also religiously motivated. The common theme? The death is supported within the religions by many. Many of those responsible were hailed as heroes. And meanwhile, the majority of those within the religions, and, indeed, the leading interpretation of the texts of these religions, stand firmly by the claim that the murder and subjugation had no place in their religion. (...Except the Romans. >_>;)

Point being. Most weren't as global in scale as the Crusades, for the most part--but one number dead and harmed shouldn't be any more acceptable than a larger number dead and harmed. It's still an abuse of religion for political reasons that resulted in death.

Selecting one religion out of the masses is silly. Christianity has a larger hold on the world, and is more prominent--and as is the custom with the world, whatever is most prominent gets the most flak. Its harms are far more visible than many other religions' for various reasons. That does not negate the fact that each thing in this list

Quote:
I hate the things that took place when people didn't convert to Christianity
I hate the treatment of the Pagans and the whole 'don't talk about Pagans if you're Christian' thing
I hate the removal of human freedoms
I hate the threatening leaflets I get through my door
I hate how God orders rape, pillage, killing, murder, hatred, sex trafficking and general wars and massacres in the Bible
I hate how most things in the Bible are written in a biased and very sexist way
I hate how it's brainwashing and a way for people to control 'the people'
occurs in every religion. I can give examples, if you like, but I'm already rambling enough. XD

As to your attack on the Bible... Christianity is founded on the principles of the New Testament. It's considered a culmination of the promises made by God in the Old Testament. Modern Christians do not practice the majority of the laws and concepts set forth in the Old Testament: many of them are seen as specific to the development of Israel's culture (ie, dieting constrictions, pig hate, go kill people so the promised ones can live in the land of honey). The continuing controversy within Christianity is "which of these do we actually embrace, and who gets to say"--which is part of where the current homosexual controversy arises within the religion. Christians who look primarily to the New Testament accept it; Christians who selectively negate the Old Testament do not. It's a ridiculous mess. The whole state of interpretation of the Bible is the main concern one should have when attacking Christianity. If you're going to hate something for the contents of the Old Testament, Judaism would be a better target--Judaism is a combination of the culture and the religion that was established from the violence of the Old Testament. Christianity is the spiritual successor of those concepts--Christians consider themselves the spiritual children of God, as opposed to the more literal form that Jews adopt. I actually read this great metaphor, at one point, (while researching Bertrand Russell, heh) in which the person was all JUDAISM IS A VIRGIN THAT GOT IMPREGNATED BY GOD AND NOW WE HAVE CHRISTIANITY AHAHAHA. It made me giggle a bit.

[/gets off soap box]
__________________

EmBreon is the maple syrup to my slightly undercooked crepe
{URPG Stats}--{ASB Stats}--{Fanfiction}
khajmer = biffle
yoface = broham

thegalleonman: (8:37:28 PM) How sad.
thegalleonman: (8:37:37 PM) I'm amused.

Last edited by Scourge of Amaranth; 11-20-2010 at 05:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-20-2010, 11:15 PM
Megiddo Flame's Avatar
Megiddo Flame Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mass-Uh-Chew-Sits
Posts: 938
Default Re: Religion

There is no God, I think.

At least SOME of my prayers would've been answered long ago.

And we'd have scientific proof, too.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-21-2010, 01:38 AM
Professor Geoffrey's Avatar
Professor Geoffrey Offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: My laboratory.
Posts: 6,512
Send a message via AIM to Professor Geoffrey
Default Re: Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Control View Post
There is no God, I think.

At least SOME of my prayers would've been answered long ago.

And we'd have scientific proof, too.
Methinks there is a God.

Well, God can't answer all prayers. God will answer yes or no, won't answer at all, or will provide you with something else He thinks is better for you in His scheme of things. His plan for the world may not be perfect to us, but it's the best possible way for things to unfold. Don't rule me out as the typical Christian. Yes, people die. People starve. People suffer. After death, you go to Heaven or the Lake of Fire (I don't believe in Hell, or Hel as they call it in Norse mythology; yes, Hell is a pagan concept, popular Christians!), and that's that. Case closed. You believe in God or you don't, and you accept Jesus or you don't. No, I don't know about aborted babies or people who were never exposed to Christianity, but I'd be willing to bet that aborted babies go straight to Heaven or may be reborn (since somewhere in the Bible states that life officially begins a month after the baby is born) and that Jesus would give unexposed people a second chance of some sort, since He did give a second chance to people in what used to be Purgatory (but now does not exist; yes, it is a Catholic concept, but they believe it still exists), since Jesus came after all of the other humans that died over the course of the past few hundreds of thousands of years. As you can tell, I have a very, very different view of Christianity than most believers, but I can tell you that more nonbelievers I've met have had more tolerance of my beliefs. I'm mostly pro-choice (though I wouldn't do it if I were a woman; I just support the freedom), I believe in evolution, and I do believe - to an extent - that religion and science can go along hand-in-hand.

Regarding scientific proof, if God created science (and I do believe He did), then wouldn't he be able to use it to cloak himself and render himself unprovable? The only possible proof is infinity, and even we can't prove that.
__________________
❒ SINGLE ❒ TAKEN ✔ LAPRAS RIDER
The Professor of Pokémon Elite 2000.

Last edited by Professor Geoffrey; 11-21-2010 at 01:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com