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  #46  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Professor Geoffrey View Post


Methinks there is a God.

Well, God can't answer all prayers. God will answer yes or no, won't answer at all, or will provide you with something else He thinks is better for you in His scheme of things. His plan for the world may not be perfect to us, but it's the best possible way for things to unfold. Don't rule me out as the typical Christian. Yes, people die. People starve. People suffer. After death, you go to Heaven or the Lake of Fire (I don't believe in Hell, or Hel as they call it in Norse mythology; yes, Hell is a pagan concept, popular Christians!), and that's that. Case closed. You believe in God or you don't, and you accept Jesus or you don't. No, I don't know about aborted babies or people who were never exposed to Christianity, but I'd be willing to bet that aborted babies go straight to Heaven or may be reborn (since somewhere in the Bible states that life officially begins a month after the baby is born) and that Jesus would give unexposed people a second chance of some sort, since He did give a second chance to people in what used to be Purgatory (but now does not exist; yes, it is a Catholic concept, but they believe it still exists), since Jesus came after all of the other humans that died over the course of the past few hundreds of thousands of years. As you can tell, I have a very, very different view of Christianity than most believers, but I can tell you that more nonbelievers I've met have had more tolerance of my beliefs. I'm mostly pro-choice (though I wouldn't do it if I were a woman; I just support the freedom), I believe in evolution, and I do believe - to an extent - that religion and science can go along hand-in-hand.

Regarding scientific proof, if God created science (and I do believe He did), then wouldn't he be able to use it to cloak himself and render himself unprovable? The only possible proof is infinity, and even we can't prove that.
No, hell is a very Christian concept (in that it is a place where the wicked are punished), the English word for it just happens to be similar to the Norse word for it. Possibly due to some violent cultural exchanges with the Anglo-Saxons?
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  #47  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Religion

Uh, no, Hell as punishment for sin is not originally a Christian concept. Pre-Christian Rome believed in a tiered afterlife. The bottom layer was Tartarus, where those who had offended the gods (which is the idea upon which the very word "sin" is based etymologically--a transgression) were sent. Their punishment was contingent upon their sin (which later was also a traditional Christian belief), and they were able to ascend to higher rings of the afterlife after their debts to society had been paid (again, this was later a traditional Christian belief). And that's only one example of a pre-Christian afterlife that involved condemnation for those who displease their gods.
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  #48  
Old 11-21-2010, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Tombi View Post
People aren't going to forget the Holocaust in hundreds of years time, are they? If the Nazi's returned and half of them stayed with the same views and half of them turned into sweetness and light, I doubt we'd be as understanding as we for some reason are with the Christians.
Ahh, see, but modern Germans aren't Nazis in the least; they consider what they allowed to happen, in fact, a massive point of shame and have gone to extreme measures to ban any and all Nazi ideology and symbols what have you within German borders. Similarly, most Christians are extremely shameful of the things done under the same banner all that time ago and have, fringe groups like that ever-so-lovely God Hates F*gs thing excluded, put their religion to the purposes of charity and inner comfort and the whatnot.
tl;dr modern Germans are not Nazis, modern Christians are not Crusaders.
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They freak out when someone burns a church, and convieniantly forget all the sacred places they burnt themselves, and the ruins of top of which they built their own churches. I don't care if they weren't there during the vicious murders of Pagan priests, their religion was still built upon massacre and hatred. That's why I refuse to accept it. It's sick and so god damn wrong.
Of course what happened before was horrible and wrong, but, as SoA pointed out, Christianity was not literally built on the tenants of "kill and pillage everything kthx"; I get the feeling Jesus, who preached forgiveness and love and tolerance, would've hit his head against his palm a few times had he lived to see how badly his message was mangled. Essentially, most of the horrible things that happened in Christianity happened under the Catholic Church (honestly more of a political institution than a church at that point), which took the meaning of religion and distorted it into a disgusting mockery of its original values, a vehicle with which the Pope could freely gather power and riches.

Overall, it wasn't the fault of religion so much as the obscenely corrupt church at the time. Also, people do horrible things in the name of pretty much everything you can think of, from religion to political ideologies to love; religion is really nothing special in that regard.
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No rage at you Larvi, ilu ♥
No rage taken, Tombi. ♥ And I do understand your stance quite well; religion has some dark, dark sh*t in its past. :/
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  #49  
Old 11-22-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Religion

Im a Muslim, as suggested by my profile pic and my name perhaps.

Born and Raised a Muslim, somewhere down the line left Islaamic practice, then three years back (I was 16) restarted practising Islaam upon finding rational footing for my faith.

My personal philosophy on religion is: faith needs to have intellectual basis to stand, so one should only accept a religion when it can withstand intellectual scrutiny, otherwise not.
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  #50  
Old 11-22-2010, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Hassan_Descartes_AbdAllah View Post
Im a Muslim, as suggested by my profile pic and my name perhaps.

Born and Raised a Muslim, somewhere down the line left Islaamic practice, then three years back (I was 16) restarted practising Islaam upon finding rational footing for my faith.

My personal philosophy on religion is: faith needs to have intellectual basis to stand, so one should only accept a religion when it can withstand intellectual scrutiny, otherwise not.
Very, very true.
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  #51  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Scourge of Amaranth View Post
Uh, no, Hell as punishment for sin is not originally a Christian concept. Pre-Christian Rome believed in a tiered afterlife. The bottom layer was Tartarus, where those who had offended the gods (which is the idea upon which the very word "sin" is based etymologically--a transgression) were sent. Their punishment was contingent upon their sin (which later was also a traditional Christian belief), and they were able to ascend to higher rings of the afterlife after their debts to society had been paid (again, this was later a traditional Christian belief). And that's only one example of a pre-Christian afterlife that involved condemnation for those who displease their gods.
Never said it was originally a Christian concept, just that it was a Christian concept. Vikings came long, long after Christians, the post in question said that Christians later adopted Hell from Vikings.
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  #52  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Never said it was originally a Christian concept, just that it was a Christian concept. Vikings came long, long after Christians, the post in question said that Christians later adopted Hell from Vikings.
He said "Hell is a pagan concept"; you said "Hell is a Christian concept" in response, which one would assume to be a rebuttal of the "Hell is a pagan concept." Apologies for the miscommunications.
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  #53  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Religion

All and all, Hell is merely a concept.

Please alert me when the concept is proven.
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  #54  
Old 11-24-2010, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: Religion

I'm an Atheist. I'd rather put my faith in science rather than a book written by a bunch of men who were drunk and high. It has some nice stories in it, but it's lacking illustrations.
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  #55  
Old 01-18-2011, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Religion

Technically, Atheism is a belief system. Not saying that Atheism is a religion or that they believe in a god but they do believe in one: That there is no god.

Your thoughts?
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  #56  
Old 01-18-2011, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Religion

Yes, a religion does not require a God. A religion is merely defined as a common set of beliefs, such as Buddhism or Communism (it is considered a religion).

However, it is true that Christianity is flawed. It has many unanswered questions and cannot find answers for much of anything. That is why most Christians claim miracles happen (they most-likely do not), that is why their excuse is "God did it." However, I think many people fail to understand that Christianity is not the only religion out there, but yet it is the most awkwardly discussed.

Plus, we have already learned in a previous thread a year ago, that we cannot talk Christians into being Atheists and we cannot talk Atheists into being Christians unless they want to make that decision. Stop arguing about it, it is not getting any of us anywhere. You know, sometimes I think our own little self quarrels among humanity (including this "Does God exist?" thing) holds us way too far back. Just recognize that everyone believes something different, understand that and embrace the idea.


Quote:
Uh, no, Hell as punishment for sin is not originally a Christian concept. Pre-Christian Rome believed in a tiered afterlife. The bottom layer was Tartarus, where those who had offended the gods (which is the idea upon which the very word "sin" is based etymologically--a transgression) were sent. Their punishment was contingent upon their sin (which later was also a traditional Christian belief), and they were able to ascend to higher rings of the afterlife after their debts to society had been paid (again, this was later a traditional Christian belief). And that's only one example of a pre-Christian afterlife that involved condemnation for those who displease their gods.
Most religions believed in an afterlife, as a matter of fact, even non-religious people of the era came up with some concept of what happened to one after death. Most religions taught that no matter how "good" you acted during your lifetime, it does not matter as the afterlife is still a miserable place. Take Hades and the Underworld. Good people even got sent down there after death, and yet there was no punishment or reward. The Sumerian peoples believed the same general belief, as did the Egyptians (to a degree). The idea of a reward and punishment after death was new, and the Roman faith did most-likely influence the Christian religions.

However, the same could be said about the Jews. The Jewish faith was heavily influenced by Egyptian and Babylonian religion and law. Or the Muslims, which use the Kaaba as their sacred stone or place of worship, but originally it was used by a religion that tried to kill Muhammad. You could say the same about every religion. Every single one has some aspect today which was influenced on by another religion. For instance, Atheism ("ism" meaning a belief) was influenced by the Great Schism, the Protestant Reformation, and even current events and scientific breakthroughs. It is ALL influenced by events of some kind.

Quote:
I'm an Atheist. I'd rather put my faith in science rather than a book written by a bunch of men who were drunk and high. It has some nice stories in it, but it's lacking illustrations.
Also, why go out of your way to insult Christians present at this argument? Why make some crazy statement or generalization that will just spark hatred? Just simply state that you are an Atheist and say you trust Science more that the Bible and leave it at that.


I AM a Christian, but I am not afraid to ask questions, to speak against the belief system, or even against many religious "officials." I believe there is a God, and a Jesus, but I believe that Science should be taken more literally, and quickly as fact. I view both my religious side of my life and my educational life as two separate aspects. I do not mix one with the other, I simply acknowledge and trust Science and the same my faith at the same time. Why can't some people do the same?
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  #57  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by PainKiller View Post
I'm an Atheist. I'd rather put my faith in science rather than a book written by a bunch of men who were drunk and high. It has some nice stories in it, but it's lacking illustrations.
Yeah, it's not the best work of fiction...
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  #58  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Religion

The creation demands a Creator. I haven't seen any monkeys turning into people, it takes more faith to believe in evolution, than it does to believe "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".
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  #59  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Religion

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Also, why go out of your way to insult Christians present at this argument? Why make some crazy statement or generalization that will just spark hatred? Just simply state that you are an Atheist and say you trust Science more that the Bible and leave it at that.
I'm sorry, but at this kind of topic you're going to have to realise that some people are like that and move on.

As for myself, I'm an atheist/agnostic. I believe in an afterlife, though.
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  #60  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Religion

I was an athiest before, but you cannot credit those who wrote the bible, who christians believe to be working under god's influence or whatever when there's sections of the bible like livictus. You can't have it both ways.
I shall always be an athiest because science has proof, not to all things, but neither does religion, religion offers very few answers in my opinion.
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