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Competitive Battling This board is for competitive battling discussion. Get team help or learn to play competitively.


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  #16  
Old 04-16-2011, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBlade View Post
Excellent analysis, Gofre. Thank you for the detailed explanations. Could you please tell me a bit more about the HP vs Speed decision-making process? Why is it that you wouldn't want HP on a pokemon with five weaknesses? Wouldn't the extra HP give him a chance to hit back, wheras he will probably be outspeeded by most any other pokemon that put EV into speed anyway? Like I said, I haven't done any real competitive dueling so excuse my ignorance on the matter. I've heard that speed Victinis are subpar competitively so I figured that if that doesn't work, try something else. No point in making it worse though xD.

Again, thanks for the great response!
Because for the most part, they're either going to be resounding KOs that not even maximised HP and defences can deter, or are entirely unable to KO you at all. Just taking the top ten most used offensive pokes as an example;

*Tyranitar- 252Att+Adamant OHKOs you with Stone Edge. HP EVs are useless
*Scizor- Completely unable to beat you. HP EVs are useless
*Garchomp- 252Att+Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Excadrill- 252Att+ Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Gliscor- 252Att+Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Gengar- 252SpAtt+Timid OHKOs you with Shadow Ball. HP EVs are useless
*Heatran- 252SpAtt+Modest OHKOs you with Earth power. HP EVs are useless
*Dragonite- 252Att+Adamant OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless

The same pattern emerges as you work further and further down the list, almost every major offensive threat carries at least one move that hits Victini for super effective damage. Whether it's because it's a STAB option, or because Victini is weak to at least one move in most of the standard coverage combinations (Ground/Rock, Fight/Rock, Fight/Ghost, Water/Electric). Victini's typing just isn't good enough to pull off a tanking set, in fact it's probably some of the worst in the game. This is coupled with his very average defences as I mentioned earlier. They'd have been great stats in the second or third generations of pokemon. But each game has brought forth more and more threats with sky-high attacking stats, 100/100/100 doesn't cut it anymore without some great defensive typing.

As for why you'd bother with it's speed when other things outspeed it, it's simply a case of capitalising on Victini's assets. Would you not bother giving Victini SpAtt EVs simply because there are pokes that can survive its attacks? Base 100 certainly isn't slow, and can outspeed a lot of things both offensive and defensive. This coupled with its again respectable SpAtt, great type coverage and access to an improved Fire Blast, all point towards Victini being best suited towards an aggressive role. It's complete mediocrity in a defensive role makes this the default position too, but no matter. Just because it isn't in the top ranks of speedy attackers, does not mean it isn't suited to the role.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2011, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBlade View Post
Excellent analysis, Gofre. Thank you for the detailed explanations. Could you please tell me a bit more about the HP vs Speed decision-making process? Why is it that you wouldn't want HP on a pokemon with five weaknesses? Wouldn't the extra HP give him a chance to hit back, wheras he will probably be outspeeded by most any other pokemon that put EV into speed anyway? Like I said, I haven't done any real competitive dueling so excuse my ignorance on the matter. I've heard that speed Victinis are subpar competitively so I figured that if that doesn't work, try something else. No point in making it worse though xD.

Again, thanks for the great response!
Because for the most part, they're either going to be resounding KOs that not even maximised HP and defences can deter, or are entirely unable to KO you at all. Just taking the top ten most used offensive pokes as an example;

*Tyranitar- 252Att+Adamant OHKOs you with Stone Edge. HP EVs are useless
*Scizor- Completely unable to beat you. HP EVs are useless
*Garchomp- 252Att+Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Excadrill- 252Att+ Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Gliscor- 252Att+Jolly OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless
*Gengar- 252SpAtt+Timid OHKOs you with Shadow Ball. HP EVs are useless
*Heatran- 252SpAtt+Modest OHKOs you with Earth power. HP EVs are useless
*Dragonite- 252Att+Adamant OHKOs you with Earthquake. HP EVs are useless

The same pattern emerges as you work further and further down the list, almost every major offensive threat carries at least one move that hits Victini for super effective damage. Whether it's because it's a STAB option, or because Victini is weak to at least one move in most of the standard coverage combinations (Ground/Rock, Fight/Rock, Fight/Ghost, Water/Electric). Victini's typing just isn't good enough to pull off a tanking set, in fact it's probably some of the worst in the game. This is coupled with his very average defences as I mentioned earlier. They'd have been great stats in the second or third generations of pokemon. But each game has brought forth more and more threats with sky-high attacking stats, 100/100/100 doesn't cut it anymore without some great defensive typing.

As for why you'd bother with it's speed when other things outspeed it, it's simply a case of capitalising on Victini's assets. Would you not bother giving Victini SpAtt EVs simply because there are pokes that can survive its attacks? Base 100 certainly isn't slow, and can outspeed a lot of things both offensive and defensive. This coupled with its again respectable SpAtt, great type coverage and access to an improved Fire Blast, all point towards Victini being best suited towards an aggressive role. It's complete mediocrity in a defensive role makes this the default position too, but no matter. Just because it isn't in the top ranks of speedy attackers, does not mean it isn't suited to the role.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2011, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Good stuff! I'm convinced by your arguement for speed over HP so went ahead and trained 252 into speed. Switched item to leftovers like you said. ill try out the orb and the scarf too. I tried running the choice specs but with my good attack spread I really missed being able to select my best option. I'll give a good look at Psycho Shock and Thunderbolt. Some mixed type pokemon have given me some difficulty I hadn't accounted for. Too many of those mixed mons! Your comments were right on; Gyarados was one of those pains.

Thanks again!

Last edited by iBlade; 04-17-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default Is it possible to.

Is it possible to battle a gen 5 person on wifi when you are using a gen 4 game
eg. Pokemon Soulsilver vs Pokemon white?
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2011, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

I know the answer to that one! I'm sorry, but you can't D: The games are not compatiable...


My question.
Well, I just recently started the whole EV training, IV breeding and semi-competive battling. I'm going to battle a friend at some point in the near(ish) future and I want to run a SandStorm team against her.
But I was wondering, what is the best set for Hippowdon when the rest of my team is more of the attacking type. I want some sort of Defensive set, but I'm not sure whether Sp. Def would be better or not, since my friend's team has a lot of mons with high Sp. Atk...

Any thoughts?
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  #21  
Old 04-25-2011, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TsukiKaiki64 View Post
I know the answer to that one! I'm sorry, but you can't D: The games are not compatiable...


My question.
Well, I just recently started the whole EV training, IV breeding and semi-competive battling. I'm going to battle a friend at some point in the near(ish) future and I want to run a SandStorm team against her.
But I was wondering, what is the best set for Hippowdon when the rest of my team is more of the attacking type. I want some sort of Defensive set, but I'm not sure whether Sp. Def would be better or not, since my friend's team has a lot of mons with high Sp. Atk...

Any thoughts?
Here's a guide to playing in sandstorm this should help you immensely in creating a new team. Maybe introducing some new sets. Its Gen 4 Though.
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2011, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

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Originally Posted by Badal View Post
Here's a guide to playing in sandstorm this should help you immensely in creating a new team. Maybe introducing some new sets. Its Gen 4 Though.
That's like, my second bible. I've read it tons of times. I just can't decide if I should have a Spec. Defensive Hippowdon or a Defensive one...
My friend's team are more Spec. Atk oriented, but Hippo's Spec. Def is awful...
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TsukiKaiki64 View Post
That's like, my second bible. I've read it tons of times. I just can't decide if I should have a Spec. Defensive Hippowdon or a Defensive one...
My friend's team are more Spec. Atk oriented,
As a general rule, go straight physical, the high amounts of overlapping types on weather teams mean that you'll rarely have an opportunity to switch in. Assuming you have multiple ground/rock Pokemon aiming to abuse sandstorm, odds are you'll be attracting Water, Ice and Grass attacks, all things that also hit 'Don super effectively and are more often than not special attacks. A wall is not a very good wall if it cannot switch into the attacks you're trying to avoid your other Pokemon taking and survive. It depends on the team as a whole, of course, but from the information you've given I'd recommend going 252HP/252Def/6SpDef.

Quote:
but Hippo's Spec. Def is awful...
On the contrary, base 72 is nothing to sniff at for a poke obviously designed to be a physical tank. It's obviously not something you can rely on to wall hits all day long, but between a half decent latent SpDef and that huge maximised HP, you shouldn't have much of a problem switching into neutral special attacks from mid-powered opponents. Obviously things like Chandera are out of your reach to switch into, but other threats are quite within it with correct judgement.

Last edited by Viva la Gofre; 04-25-2011 at 08:08 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2011, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Apologies in advance for the nubbish question, I'm getting back into pokemon and the competitive scene entices me, but when I've EV trained my pokemon do I the train it to level 100 or are rare candies a viable option?
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  #25  
Old 04-25-2011, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

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Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs View Post
Apologies in advance for the nubbish question, I'm getting back into pokemon and the competitive scene entices me, but when I've EV trained my pokemon do I the train it to level 100 or are rare candies a viable option?
Once you've EV'd, you can raise them to level 100 however you like. EVs are the only thing that affects stats as you raise the pokemon, so once you've maxed EVs out any method of getting them to lvl 100 will have the same result.
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  #26  
Old 04-25-2011, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

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Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
Once you've EV'd, you can raise them to level 100 however you like. EVs are the only thing that affects stats as you raise the pokemon, so once you've maxed EVs out any method of getting them to lvl 100 will have the same result.
Ah, I thought that was the case! Thanks :D
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:36 AM
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Default Black and white tiers list

Does anyone know what they are because i was having a wifi battel and someone just came out with a Latios and that really ticked me off, so does anyone know the tiers list for Black & White?
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Black and white tiers list

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Originally Posted by ELtabasco View Post
Does anyone know what they are because i was having a wifi battel and someone just came out with a Latios and that really ticked me off, so does anyone know the tiers list for Black & White?
Latios is unbanned this generation, along with Latias, Garchomp, Salamence, Deoxys Def, Deoxys Spe and Mew. Tiers are still pretty rudimentary at the moment, they're pretty much based around usage statistics with only a couple of suspect tests being done, and there's been no distinction at all between UU and NU yet. As such Smogon haven't published tier lists yet, all we have is a banlist for the Uber tier, which reads as following;
-Mewtwo
-Lugia
-Ho-oh
-Deoxys
-Deoxys Att
-Rayquaza
-Kyogre
-Groudon
-Shaymin-S
-Giratina
-Giratina-O
-Dialga
-Palkia
-Arceus
-Manaphy
-Darkrai
-Reshiram
-Zekrom

Keldeo, Genesect and Meloetta are also banned, but because they are currently unreleased rather than being Ubers. I'm compiling a competitive resource thread in the RMT forum (Link) highlighting the differences between fourth gen and fifth, once tier lists are released I'll publish them there as well as provide analysis in the differences between 4th and 5th gen tiers.
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  #29  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

When EV training, does PKRS stack with Exp Share, or would I have to use a Macho Brace to get the combined effects?
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  #30  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

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When EV training, does PKRS stack with Exp Share, or would I have to use a Macho Brace to get the combined effects?
Pokerus doubles the end value after all other modifiers. For further queries on EV training, please consult the guide I wrote in the sticky section of this sub-forum, a link to which can be found here. I pretty much covers all areas.
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