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Pokemon: Anime/Movies/Manga Talk about the Pokemon anime, movies and manga. NOTE: It's possible that there may be discussions in here that may spoil something for you if you haven't seen that episode/movie/manga before. Please use the spoiler code when appropriate.


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  #16  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Foxamivalth View Post
Of course the first main thing to edit is Ash will evolve all his Pokemon and don't catch the weaklings.
I have to disagree with this one. The anime has been trying to teach us for 20 years that Unevolved =/= Weak in its standards.
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

I don't see what everyone has against Ash. Sure, he is annoying at times, but he is quite awesome when it comes down to saving the world. Almost literally, every movie he saves a city or in some cases, the entire world. You cannot be a total derp and do that. *slaps anyone who says otherwise*

As for unevolved Pokemon. Even the game teaches that unevolved Pokemon learn faster than evolved Pokemon, meaning it is a preference. A stronger Pokemon with worse moves, or a slightly weaker Pokemon with powerful moves?

@Bullkid 20 years? Pokemon has not been around for 20 years, it has been around for 13.
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Bullkid View Post
I have to disagree with this one. The anime has been trying to teach us for 20 years that Unevolved =/= Weak in its standards.
Yes, just around 13 years. And the first gameboy game released in the same year I was born.

For what I've made bold, yes, every pokemon that have not evolved are not weak, though they can beat pokemon that have evolved once or twice. They made no sense.

And this appears only in the anime. The other nonsense is that a pokemon that has type disadvantage to another pokemon (especially Ash's) can beat that pokemon. There were many episodes that included Ash's pokemon that beat other pokemon that have type disadvantage to Ash's, or pokemon that has evolved.

And, if Unevolved=/=Weakling, why don't you raise 6 Magikarps? >8D
There game always includes a fisherman who uses 6 Magikarps.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2011, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

With all this talk of evolving, I can say that it does make sense that Ash should probably evolve more Pokemon than he usually does. From, I would guess, an anime stand point, the Pokemon would not evolve based on levels. At least in the anime, they evolve when they most see fit and is a really random occurance. For the writers and artists of the anime, it'd probably just be easier to keep Ash with simplified first-tier Pokemon. They seem easier to draw and seem to contribute to the concept of "Big power comes in small packages"

As I said though, I think it would be fitting he evolves more Pokemon for the sake of sense (In some situations) and the coolness around evolving. We all like to see something evolve although its not much to watch lol. In the sake of sense, we can all admit that Ash will have a Pokemon that has gone through a ton of battles and just has never evolved. That could either, and say Pokemon were real, be from a genetic issue or the Pokemon just not wanting to. Though it would make sense that the Pokemon does evolve.

Edit: On the topic of unevolved =/= weak, this is true and not in a sense. Ultimately, the game is playing statistics against one another. Having used Pokesav a great deal and spent a lot of my time reading IV's and EV's, evolving a Pokemon can be incredibly beneficial and lead to boosts in the Pokemon's strengths though can also drastically hinder another stat the Pokemon may get a natural boost in. For the most part, evolving a Pokemon is beneficial from the statistical stand point, though that's not to say that keeping it unevolved can be just as good. Pokemon, the game at least, boils down to pitting numbers against numbers and whoever has the better numbers wins, end of story. I could go on about the importance of numbers in this game but really, if you want a good idea check base stats on Bulbapedia or something. Though, the base stats are really just an average that can be made by Pokesav based on the Pokemon having no IVs and EVs. Haunter is naturally a fast Pokemon, but due to natures, IVs, EVs, and the likes, it can be an incredibly slow Pokemon. Its slowness may even have been due to its pre-evolved Ghastly which is not relatively fast in comparison to Haunter.

So to sum up my long discussions, can an unevolved Pokemon be strong: Yes. Can an evolved Pokemon be just as strong/weaker/or stronger than an unevolved Pokemon: Yes. But as said, Pokemon is ultimately a numbers game and having Pokesav as a tool at your disposal, even when not editing your Pokemon, can help you see just where your Pokemon stands in the numbers game.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

That is not a fair example, Foxamivalth. You are using the game's weakest Pokemon.

If evolution makes the most powerful Pokemon, how come Arceus doesn't evolve? I can use the same exaggerated and unfair examples that you use.

It is true. The anime is full of many inconsistencies, but you have to keep in mind it is trying to portray what it would be like if Pokemon were real. Pokemon games are not supposed to really put much of an emphasis on tactics when it comes to live battle. It is a turn-based RPG. It in no way has the same style of battling as the anime does.

I recall a battle in the very first series, when the anime was at its best, and a Bellsprout nearly took down Ash's entire team. It was not because Ash is an idiot, and not because it had the type advantage over the other Pokemon. It is because the battle itself is in real time, meaning one could easily adapt to a situation, prevent something from happening, and use the surroundings around the battle area.

That is another thing that is lacking in the game. The use of surroundings. No high ground, no freezing the water around, the Pokemon hardly even move.

You cannot compare battling styles in the anime to the game because they are so very different. The reason the Bellsprout put up such a good fight was because the trainer had trained it to dodge attacks, almost like a ninja. Can't do that in the game, now can you?

Evolution has nothing to do with how good your Pokemon are. I have seen a person beat a level 100 Hitmonlee with a level 100 Marill. Not an Azumarill, but a Marill. Evolution does mean something, but it is not a necessity.

The anime is/was good in its own right. It presents concepts to the audience that the game could only dream of doing.

Am I biased? No. I hate the anime, and I hated it ever since the beginning of Hoenn. But, I am saying that they are both different in their own perspective, and truthfully, there is nothing wrong with that.
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2011, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
That is another thing that is lacking in the game. The use of surroundings. No high ground, no freezing the water around, the Pokemon hardly even move.

The anime is/was good in its own right. It presents concepts to the audience that the game could only dream of doing.
In that first line I quoted, I'm reminded of Digimon World 3 in which you could change battle surroundings, not to the degree of high ground low grounds etc, but say your Digimon had electrical attacks, change the battle field to an electric field lol.

As for the second line, I'm sure the Pokemon series wouldn't have been quite as successful if the battle system wasn't turn based. Agreed, it is something to dream of which makes the show more exciting in comparison to the game, because we can see fights in real time. But back to how I began this paragraph, I'm sure the games wouldn't have done quite as well if they really could do real time battling.

Though, I'm sure that the Pokemon Company may be working on it a little, with the advent of Pokemon Rumble, even mystery dungeon touching a little on the same topic. Though in practicality in terms of Pokemon moves, a game in which it had real time fighting would be difficult. The easiest method I could imagine would be pokemon smashed with kingdom hearts, that's the only remote thing I can see working. Otherwise, you'd just be making a Pokemon Tekken game lol.

Back ontopic of the anime, I think another thing I'd like to see more is character back story and development. Not saying to turn the show into something like bleach with tons of filler, but you know, see more story about something. Though, what I find most interesting is the back story to certain towns. Of which, isn't always touched on too heavily. But, that may be because I might be a bit of a history buff.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2011, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

If you played Bioware or Blizzard games, you'd know that it is very easy to make a real time combat system for a game such as Pokemon. Or even look at Final Fantasy. That game series has made some marked improvements from the first pixely one from the old NES era.

Make certain attacks have different rates or speeds, like weapons in Dragon Age, Knights of the Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Diablo, Warhammer, etc. It is not like it is totally new technology that would be implemented. It would be a more action packed game, and would be very similar to the anime.

Certain attack rates? What do I mean?
A weak Electric move like Spark would take 6.0 seconds to use and would have a 5.0 second cool down time, eliminating the constant spamming of attacks.

A strong Electric attack like Thunder would take 15.0 seconds to charge and an 80.00 second cooldown time.

Also make it so that the Pokemon don't necessarily have Power Points, but have Power Levels. Where it depletes and recharges slowly overtime, or you can use Ether to replenish it.

It is so simple to think of, I have no idea how difficult or easy it would be to implement it (it takes a year at the least to develop a balanced RPG engine, let alone the graphics and such), but it is a good start.
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
If you played Bioware or Blizzard games, you'd know that it is very easy to make a real time combat system for a game such as Pokemon. Or even look at Final Fantasy. That game series has made some marked improvements from the first pixely one from the old NES era.

Make certain attacks have different rates or speeds, like weapons in Dragon Age, Knights of the Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Diablo, Warhammer, etc. It is not like it is totally new technology that would be implemented. It would be a more action packed game, and would be very similar to the anime.

Certain attack rates? What do I mean?
A weak Electric move like Spark would take 6.0 seconds to use and would have a 5.0 second cool down time, eliminating the constant spamming of attacks.

A strong Electric attack like Thunder would take 15.0 seconds to charge and an 80.00 second cooldown time.

Also make it so that the Pokemon don't necessarily have Power Points, but have Power Levels. Where it depletes and recharges slowly overtime, or you can use Ether to replenish it.

It is so simple to think of, I have no idea how difficult or easy it would be to implement it (it takes a year at the least to develop a balanced RPG engine, let alone the graphics and such), but it is a good start.
I see where you're getting at. It makes sense yes and I had forgotten to acknowledge such. It does sound like great ideas though I doubt would work successfully with the Pokemon series you know? I'd suppose gamers are just familiar with the idea that Pokemon will always produce something they know they can expect. Which, may actually be starting to become repetitive. Though from what I see, this is still very new to children. So the cycle will kind of, in a way, remain unbroken as children will see these new games that we find as, more of the same, to actually be new. It's still exciting for them and I suppose, us being here we still find Pokemon exciting too lol.

For new comers to the series, making a similar engine to the ones you described would be fine. Though for anyone who grew up in the nineties with Pokemon it may not be anything they would really want to see unless the Pokemon Company can really market it. Otherwise, in my mind, I'm imagining a not so good Pokemon game under the pretense of it being like Dragon Age, a game of which I am not too fond of. My only real reason being is the layout of the game seemed a lot like an epic single player MMORPG, minus the MMO part. But, that's just personal opinion.

When you say similar to the anime, you are dead right that it would be incredibly similar. Though, I personally would find the game play to still be lacking and that the series would have fallen kind of into a pit with the game. I suppose it would appeal to a new base of people who enjoy RPG styled games in a similar fashion as well as any die-hard Pokemon fan. Though, for anyone else really it wouldn't receive too much attention. It'd probably receive as much attention as the Nintendo 3DS did, which is to say, not incredibly much. To the point that Nintendo was losing money on the product and had lowered the price of the hand held.

Still, you do bring up an interesting idea to go with the Pokemon series and for me personally, I wouldn't like it much. That's not to say it'll keep me from buying the product, though knowing I already do not like games in a similar RPG style to Dragon Age or the likes, I think I would pirate the game to give it a try and if I don't like it, I won't spend any money on it.
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

How would it be difficult for people have been playing Pokemon games since the nineties? If you are implying that Pokemon is the only video game they have ever played, and have not experienced any other gameplay style, I'd say they would not have any right to complain about a switch.

Getting kind of repetitive? Jeez. I started to pick up on that right when Platinum was released.

Fact of the matter is, the game style is getting too repetitive. They are starting to milk customers. I do not blame them for their reluctance to bring out a new style of game though. All too often companies will release something, and the fans will hate it because they are far too biased.

What did you not like about Dragon Age? Solid gameplay, amazing story, decent graphics. That is exactly what Pokemon needs.
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:53 AM
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Thumbs up Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
How would it be difficult for people have been playing Pokemon games since the nineties? If you are implying that Pokemon is the only video game they have ever played, and have not experienced any other gameplay style, I'd say they would not have any right to complain about a switch.
I don't mean it is the only game. I mean, any person who has played Pokemon since the nineties (not literally) but has bought and played the games regularly, a turned based adventure RPG is something they would be expecting as well as something that we're use to as opposed to making a switch to something similar to dragon age. I suppose in short: Pokemon is expected to be a turned based RPG. Anything other for some people will not be considered Pokemon.

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Getting kind of repetitive? Jeez. I started to pick up on that right when Platinum was released.
More or less personal opinion for me. I enjoy Pokemon but it has started to become more of the same for me. Maybe I'm just getting older or something, but it's not quite like how I use to enjoy it in the past and the games follow the same idea each time. Go through gyms, about 4th or 5th badge away you end up whipping Team [Names] ass and then beating the league and a battle island afterwards. This has been true in part of the new games though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Fact of the matter is, the game style is getting too repetitive. They are starting to milk customers. I do not blame them for their reluctance to bring out a new style of game though. All too often companies will release something, and the fans will hate it because they are far too biased.
That's true yes. Fans may be far too bias or as I put it, too familiar to the old style of the game. Supposing since it is Pokemon we're talking about, although I wouldn't like a change, I'm sure a change would not effect it too much. Sure, a change may lose player base, but c'mon, this is Pokemon. Nintendo will probably not be too hurt if some people don't like it because chances are someone else is going to and they aren't going to lose too much money.

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What did you not like about Dragon Age? Solid gameplay, amazing story, decent graphics. That is exactly what Pokemon needs.
What I did not like about Dragon Age was the game play. As I had said, it felt too much like a really good MMORPG, however, I'm not too fond of the MMORPG game play style in which I must click an enemy and mash keys to launch skills. It felt a bit of a bore to me, despite the story being nice and engaging. I suppose my genre of choice is hack and slash *shrugs*
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  #26  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

Pokemon games have not been turned-based before, and have gotten exceptional reviews. I think people would embrace such a change, if it is done right.

It is not personal opinion, it is truth. Whether or not the hardcore fans want to admit it is their choice. It has been the same game for 14 years. If that is not repetitive, allow me to continuously sell you the same exact episode from the 9th season of Scrubs and tell me if you enjoy it over and over again.

Being attached to something does not make you biased towards it. I am very attached to my dog, but I will not deny that it needs to be kicked in the ass and settle the crap down.

The same can go with the game series. Plenty of people have played some form of a live combat system in some RPG or another and grown accustomed to it. I think it would be a pleasant change from simply watching a pixely sprite drawn in MS Paint fire a cheap animation made in Particle Illusion after you press that pixely font. No actual choices made in the game that effect the story either. No alternate endings. No game-changing battles. It is far too linear, to add another annoyance to the list.

Is there something wrong with an MMO feel? And in no way was it anything like the combat in an MMO. Why do I say this? There was no such thing as grinding. No enemies respawn. No enemies walk around in huge groups in the wild and chill, waiting for you to transform them into abundant exp. You never even connected to the servers unless you wanted to buy something. And your allies seemed like real people, as in you could have conversations in-game, something most games lack that aren't even MMOs in the first place.

If you do not like the feel of Dragon Age, perhaps the feel of the Fable series? We just need to make it live enough so that you can make tactical decisions like in the anime.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Pokemon games have not been turned-based before, and have gotten exceptional reviews. I think people would embrace such a change, if it is done right.

It is not personal opinion, it is truth. Whether or not the hardcore fans want to admit it is their choice. It has been the same game for 14 years. If that is not repetitive, allow me to continuously sell you the same exact episode from the 9th season of Scrubs and tell me if you enjoy it over and over again.

Being attached to something does not make you biased towards it. I am very attached to my dog, but I will not deny that it needs to be kicked in the ass and settle the crap down.

The same can go with the game series. Plenty of people have played some form of a live combat system in some RPG or another and grown accustomed to it. I think it would be a pleasant change from simply watching a pixely sprite drawn in MS Paint fire a cheap animation made in Particle Illusion after you press that pixely font. No actual choices made in the game that effect the story either. No alternate endings. No game-changing battles. It is far too linear, to add another annoyance to the list.

Is there something wrong with an MMO feel? And in no way was it anything like the combat in an MMO. Why do I say this? There was no such thing as grinding. No enemies respawn. No enemies walk around in huge groups in the wild and chill, waiting for you to transform them into abundant exp. You never even connected to the servers unless you wanted to buy something. And your allies seemed like real people, as in you could have conversations in-game, something most games lack that aren't even MMOs in the first place.

If you do not like the feel of Dragon Age, perhaps the feel of the Fable series? We just need to make it live enough so that you can make tactical decisions like in the anime.
Totally agree. I have enjoyed fable so something like that would be more up my alley haha.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

Perhaps they could implement the group-fighting in Dragon Age (and the ability to pause the battle to issue more tactical commands), and keep the fast-paced action of Fable? This would definitely make it user-friendly and make it more enjoyable like the anime's battle style.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

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  • Ash would have caught many more Pokémon
  • Team Rocket would be more terrorist-y
  • Jessie, James and Meowth would be more successful
  • I don't care how much time and money it would take, the battles would be more detailed like they are at the start of most of the movies, none of this still Pokémon on moving background business

And most importantly:

The original dub actors would still be running the show. I caught the first episode of Battle Frontier and couldn't even finish it. It was like nails on a chalkboard.
I would say skip Battle Frontier if the voices get on your nerves. The new actors kind of got use to their roles around late Battle Frontier/kind of early Sinnoh Saga. Due to the weekly schedule that the anime has, it is no way enough time to allow new voice actors the chance to play around with the character's voice. They need some time to adjust and figure out their new characters. VAs don't have a lot of time to record since mostly recording studios for animes try to get done as fast as they can which is especially true for a week-by-week series.

============

As for evolution, it doesn't bother me too much that Ash does always evolves his pokemon but it is a feature from the games that the anime doesn't take advantage of. Evolution can be a way to show growth in a Pokemon. It is the mostly seeable growth that we can see in a Pokemon's character. The human characters of Pokemon we can always say, "Oh he has grown as a character" and we can point at certain scenes. With a Pokemon we can say, "Oh they have grown as a character" and point to scenes but we can also point to if they had evolved. The example that I will use is Chimchar from Sinnoh Saga.

Chimchar we always knew that he had great power. Paul saw that right when he caught him but the problem was that he never let it all out because he would lose control of it. Still as he spent more time with Ash he was able to become a bit less worry and just grew in power. He even evolved to show that he has became much more powerful and as he evolved he came closer to controlling the great power within him. By the time Ash had battle Volkner for his eight badge we saw that Chimchar/Infernape had finally came to grip with his power and control his powerful Blaze ability. This eventually led to the epic battle that we had against Paul in the quarter finals where Infernape was the main force in winning the battle for Ash.

Also you have to admit that Infernape in Blaze during the final moments of the Volkner and Paul battles looked cooler then some little chimchar. Super sayian much? haha
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: If You Were In Charge Of The Anime

It looks cool, but at the same time, it is amazing to watch a Pikachu take down a fully evolved Raichu, now isn't it? ;)

The only change I can recommend to the anime would be to make the characters backgrounds more deep. More detailed. More interesting. Have a larger impact on the story. The goals of the characters seem to be forgotten very quickly in the newer series and are simply just compilations of battles. There needs to be way more story overall. That is the only gripe I have about the anime series.

The modern movies are still quite impressive storywise, though. They need to make the anime more like that in terms of story.
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