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Pokemon: Black/White Discuss the game: Pokemon Black and Pokemon White. Ask/Answer questions and discussions about Pokemon Black/White only.


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  #61  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

No, Pokemon isn't getting worse and the fact we're getting older influences a bit.

All you need upon a new generation is launched is some time to get used with the new Pokemons, gyms, itens, places. My appreciation for Pokemons has lowered on animes, not on games.

People who follow the anime may get bored, but the ones that play the games will not, I think.
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  #62  
Old 04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I am personally of a split mind about this. It's true that we could be simply blinded by nostalgia and unable to see the greatness of these new Pokemon. But I think I can tell what the problem is. It's not that we're outgrowing Pokemon itself, but we're leaving the target audience, which makes us feel like the games aren't quite for us to begin with. Think about it - you're forced to become a 10-year-old child before even starting the game, doesn't that sort of... not turn you off to the experience, but... take you out of it? Like, you feel like you're not becoming the main character anymore.

And the Pokemon mirror this idea perfectly. Say what you will, but Muk is way better than Garbodor. Why? Just look at their expressions. Muk is like, "Gwaar! I am a big pile of sludge! Don't touch me, because I may burn away your skin!" It perfectly exemplified how sludge would feel if it came alive - vile, disgusting, and acidic in more ways than one. Then look at Garbodor. It doesn't look particularly vicious (which is part of the danger aspect that I'll cover later). It's got an expression that can be summed up in two words: Herp derp. Come on, if your garbage, complete with slime, came to life, would you'd expect it to be a little frightening? Garbodor looks pretty apathetic, in my opinion. I mean, they're Pocket Monsters, after all! Not Pocket Pets!

And that smoothly brings me to the danger aspect. Here, I'll make a comparison to outside media, so you might need to be a bit cultured to get everything. First, think of Mewtwo. It may be small - it's about human size and weight - but it still has incredible power, and that's exemplified by the silently furious expression on its face. It's a perfect example of the fat that you don't need to be a giant dinosaur-like creature to be evil and frightening. You don't need to roar and scream, or be able to smash through walls with sheer brute force. Reshiram and Zekrom take this and throw it out the window. Granted, previous generations were victims of this, also. Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza were bad. Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina were worse. I mean, bending time and space? Controlling an alternate dimension? That's a bit too much for me. There's nothing on earth, animal or otherwise, that is anything remotely like Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina. My point is that all Pokemon should be able to have a dangerous side, without having to be big and intimidating as well. Just think of Dragonite - it may be gentle, but it's very intelligent. If you get on its bad side, watch out - it's got a nasty Hyper Beam! And before you start screaming, "Slowbro!" or the like, let me remind you of a wonderful anime called Dragonball Z. Think, if you will, of the first form of Janemba. That guy wasn't remotely frightening, except when he walled Goku with his mass and then used his incredible powers to teleport and start conjuring balls and stuff. That's what Slowbro is like. It may seem cute and cuddly, but when it battles, you'd better watch out, or you'll be walled and destroyed with Psychic powers.

Next, Pokemon should be more animal-like. Now, I don't mean every Pokemon needs to be based on an animal of some sort. What I mean by this is that each and every Pokemon should be comparable to something on earth. Magnemite? A magnet. Diglett? A mole. Jynx? I don't want to say it, but you all know what we're thinking. Now, what the heck is Dialga? Some sort of... time-warping... colossal...levitating...bug thing? What's Metagross? A living cyborg... supercomputer... thing? Product of Pokemon and computers? My point is that the Pokemon may not be getting more complex or overdesigned in terms of graphics, but Gamefreak is ignoring the vast majority of the animal kingdom, along with many amazing things on this earth that would make wonderful Pokemon. How about an amoeba Pokemon? Perhaps a cloud Pokemon? What about an earthworm Pokemon?

Another problem is the lack of real new gameplay mechanics in Black and White. Now, what does this mean? Red and Blue - started it all. Created a worldwide phenomenon that lasts for decades. Gold and Silver - added the time system, as well as held items. Held items were obviously one of the most longstanding and important additions to the series. Ruby and Sapphire - added the EV cap, Choice Band, Natures, and Abilities. Abilities have since become a very important battle aspect. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl - gave each move its own type and added WiFi play. The physical/special damage split changed the way Pokemon was played hugely, and gave some Pokemon new tools, while reducing the danger of others. In one fell swoop, Gamefreak added a new level of balance, and made the games make much more sense to boot. Of course Bite is a physical attack. And that's not even mentioning Choice Specs and Scarf, which added a greater balance as well as new threats. Pokemon Black and White - um... Dream World? Too much work to set up, and you get maybe a new ability for your trouble? Some new berries? Wait, why can't you get those in-game again? Uh... TMs never go away? Oh, wait, that took away a level of strategy and the concept of saving important items for important Pokemon. That new mechanic just made it a much easier game, which really just shows even more the target audience for this game. Kids shouldn't have to work for things! Saving valuable things and waiting patiently for the right time to do something? Kids don't need to know that! I mean, it's not like it's a life skill or anything! Oh, wait, who's the target audience for this game again? Right... Gamefreak just cemented its target audience as every kid in the world. Great. Just great.

Also, Pokemon has been losing its mature audience. To all intents and purposes, Pokemon was a pretty deep game. Team Rocket wasn't just a bumbling group of manipulated weirdos, nor were they doing random things like thrying to control other dimensions. They were a group of real scientists, and they were literally taking over the region around you. You'd go into, say, Saffron City and find them patrolling the streets and blocking most of the doors. And they performed real experiments - they dabbled in cloning with Mewtwo, which raises the ethical question: Is cloning right? Is Mewtwo justified in its anger at being a clone? The most ethical question Black and White ask is whether Pokemon should be kept in Pokeballs. Big shocker - the game skims over the question with an, "Of course they should be, Billy. Now go catch that giant dragon thing so you can prevent Team Plasma from... what did they want? Rule the world with the help of a giant beast? Ah, nice and generic.

Finally, the portrayal of Pokemon in outside media. This problem is unique in that it started off bad at the beginning, but only got worse as time went on. Pokemon may have been a deep game, but the anime was determined to work against that with a more kid-like theme. It also seemed determined to ignore all gameplay aspects of the source material, which consequently made people worse battlers (go for the horn, Pikachu!). As time went on, it only got worse - Brock was taken out for a short stint, but returned when whoever made the anime decided that they should let the popular characters remain. Then he remained throughout the rest of the anime, slowly devolving into a comic relief character who somehow became an expert on all Pokemon without any research materials. Misty was tossed around a lot, the expert May was defeated by the amateur Dawn, and the show's new characters are determined to get Pokemon a spot on Nick Jr. And this isn't an isolated problem, either - I know many people who won't touch a Pokemon game because it looks babyish in the anime, and I can't say I blame them.

That all said, I don't completely hate Black and White. I like Volcarona and Chandelure, and the main characters are a bit older. But in addition to all the problems that I listed, the graphics in-battle are abysmal, not to mention the camera seems to be going insane when you don't make a move immediately. Also, the bridges were incredibly annoying to cross. And why was the game set in New York again? Last I checked, no one was complaining that the game was set in Japan. And there many minor things too, like the fact that Casteliacones were so hard to get yet so useless, and the fact that you have to cross through that one area of sand whenever you want to run through Route 4. All in all, I think Pokemon is geting worse, but then again, this could just be a senile rant.
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  #63  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I think it's nethier... I just think that with today's day in advanced technelogy that Nintendo has too keep up with it or else they'll lose tons of money!
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  #64  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I'm not sure if it's getting old or not.
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  #65  
Old 04-07-2012, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I think that since Pokemon audience is expanding to both old and new people, it's becoming much more difficult to cater to all of the fans. Taking an action one way might upset the other and vice versa.
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  #66  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:19 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

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Originally Posted by WebMaster View Post
I think that since Pokemon audience is expanding to both old and new people, it's becoming much more difficult to cater to all of the fans. Taking an action one way might upset the other and vice versa.
Very Well said!
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  #67  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I will be honest, I think these new pokemon designs are too desperate making Pokemon look bad, At least the newer pokemon. I mean, A perfect example would be Durant! It's nothng more then a grey ant, Unlike ariados where it has designs and color, Something to give it personality. Durant is blank, gray and ugly. So yes, I do think its the fact it has gotten worse but its also the fact the some of us here have played since Pokemon first came out, I for one have been playing since Ash first woke up and realized he was late to get his starter from Professor Oak. So yes, For some of us, Being veterans of the game may be the cause of some of the boredom or negative inputs since we're so used to the same old thing.. You have the part where you rescue a group of people, then you get the 8 badges, fight the Elite Four and become a champion after beating your "rival".
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  #68  
Old 04-07-2012, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

Personally I think that Pokemon has been actually getting progressively better and worse simultaneously. Sure you can mention about how we now think ice cream and giant robot ripoffs of the Iron Giant count as Pokemon, but on the flipside how did flying magnets, balls of gas, and malformed Poke Balls become Pokemon? Its not that we are really running out of ideas, its that now we are getting our ideas for more unusual, yet effective, places. Sure the Vanillite line was quite a stretch, but at least it was designed well and in detail. The same with Golurk and even the Litwick evolutionary line. They aren't simply a rip-off of Transformers and common lighting options; they are given some personality. For example, Golurk has a skirt that would resemble the skirts from Roman and Spartan armor. Litwick, Lampent, and Chandelure are all based on the Hitodama while being common lighting appliances. Now that because of Chandelure's existance I can see a reason why little kids would be afraid of their own dining room or afraid to be out on a dimly lit street. Heck even look at Escavalier. It's based on a jouster. What other companies that sell similar products have used jousting in their themes? I can't think of any. Now when we start basing pokemon on cars, clothing, and cigarettes; then we have run out of ideas.
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  #69  
Old 04-07-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

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Heck even look at Escavalier. It's based on a jouster. What other companies that sell similar products have used jousting in their themes?
Medieval Times!
...just sayin
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  #70  
Old 04-11-2012, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

Some of the new Pokemon are good and I like them, and some of them look silly, too abstract, weird, etc, to me. But it's been that way with every new generation release.

In fact one of my most hated Pokemon of all time still resides back in 3rd gen...




GOD WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR EYES? HOW CAN YOU EVEN SEE? I LIKED WINGULL AND YOU RUINED IT YOU HORRIBLE FAT BEAST.


Among 5th gen Pokemon that I really liked are the Ferrothorn line, Eelektross line, Scrafty line, Jellicent line, Cryogonal, Galvantula line, Chandelure line... Probably some more, can't think right now. Oh, I also like the legendary trio, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus.

I actually fell in love with more Pokemon in 5th gen than in 4th gen most likely. 4th gen was... okay. Except, I absolutely hate Lickilicky. It ruined Lickitung. Instead of looking like a plausible animal it is now a joke of a giant fat man with a bib and its tongue perpetually stuck through its tiny mouth like it's had a horrible allergic reaction. It's gone from being basically a cool reptile with a long sticky tongue to being a fat pathetic clown with hair ruffles like a cartoon baby. A giant fat gluttinous baby. It actually looks like, scaled down, it'd make a better PRE-EVO than an evo for Lickitung. Poor.. poor, Lickitung. I'd never want to evolve.

Among 5th gen Pokemon that I really disliked are Vanilluxe line, Musharna line (IT LOOKS LIKE A CREEPY FETUS WHEN ANIMATED), Alomomola (IT FONDLES ITSELF AND PULSATES DISGUSTINGLY WHEN ANIMATED)... Oh, and I didn't really appreciate Reshiram's weird crotch fur spike. I liked Reshiram and Zekrom much more than Dialga/Palkia though.


Part of it is that when a Pokemon is new you haven't fully accepted it as being "a Pokemon" yet and your mind is still more open to critique. When it stops being the new mon you just lump it in the giant pile of "things that are Pokemon" and don't think about it as much. Not all of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen designs are gems.

In fact gen 1 was one of the least creative. Magnemite evolves into.. Uh, just stick three of them together. Diglett evolves into.. Uh, just stick three of them together and draw on some angry faces. Seel evolves into... make it a bigger seal. Not that I don't like these Pokemon, but if a new gen came out and they started just gluing Pokemon together to make evolutions in the cut-and-paste fashion of Magneton (they didn't even change anything about the individual magnemites.. just put three near each other) then people would call that an uncreative design and boring and "oh they're running out of ideas." Imagine Diglett and Dugtrio coming out now if they hadn't in 1st gen. How lazy, we would say. They just stuck three of them together. Some of the names back in 1st gen were very non-creative too. So, Seel is a seal. We changed one letter and kept the same exact sound. What if Mightyena had come out and just been named.. uh, "Wulf." What if Drillbur was just named.. Mm.. "Moll." (Pronounce it "mole," the way that "poll" sounds the same as "pole") We'd have thought that wasn't very creative right? Buneary just named.. "Bunnee?" I mean it's close as it is, but not as close as "Seel" = "Seal." I mean I've even seen people misspell seal that way.

Voltorb? Turn it upside down and make it bigger. Tada- Electrode. I love all the 1st gen Pokemon (mostly) but I don't hold them up as the pinnacle of creative ideas. They were just all we had to go by on what a Pokemon should be, so there was no questioning.

I sort of like when some similar Pokemon come out too. Real life is like that. There isn't just one kind of "frog/toad" for example. There are many kinds and what they look like depends on where you go, what continent you're on. There's room for Poliwrath, Politoed, Toxicroak, and Seismitoad.. And still room for more really. They are different species of amphibians. There is more than one type of "cat" animal. Leopards, cheetahs, lions, servals, caracals, jaguars, tigers, lynxes, bobcats, and many more.. and plain old house cats, but a rainbow of breeds and some hybrids.

Persian, Liepard, Purugly, Delcatty.. All have a place. And it opens up interesting possibilities for fun theme teams. I'm a cat person irl and I'd make a whole team of cat-like Pokemon (maybe mix in some eevees even though they're foxes since there aren't 6 lines) just for fun.


I was about 9 when I first played Pokemon and I'm 21 now. I've definitely gotten older but I still like Pokemon at heart. I actually felt relatively good about 5th gen's release compared to some of the others.

Oh, and I freaking love Garbodor. He's so creepy. That face. Those eyes. He's gonna eat you.

I do miss Team Rocket just being gangsters instead of every new team-whatever needing to be like WE WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD WITH MAGICAL POWERS. You know, guys.. Pokemon gangsters was good enough. Just.. just saying.
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Last edited by Tasteless; 04-11-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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  #71  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

Pokemon...Pokemon is better and worse. Part of it is because they all have the same plotline and its gotten kindof boring. The teams have gotten lamer and the difficulty has gone down. Victini, Zoroark, and many other 5th gen. pkmn are great. But Rayquaza, Nidoking, Lugia, they cant be replaced. And they are only 3 among many of the best original pkmn. And not only these, but the starters have gone down, to me, in quality.
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  #72  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I like to think that Pokémon is simply changing, and that can be translated as getting better or worse to different people.

Personally I don't like the more complex monster designs of the newer games for the most part, that being the leading reason for my refusal to play through a gen 3 game, shallow as that may be. I have to agree with some others in saying that the Pokémon who are nothing but inanimate objects turned into monsters are some of my least favorite designs of all time, and are far to prevalent in recent gen games.

I understand that it is challenging for the developers to continue to come up with so many new designs for each new generation of games, but I wish that they would keep to throwing in some old gen Pokémon into the new games here, and there, rather than totally wiping the board like they did in gen 3, and for the most part in gen 5 as well. They technically do that in gen 5, but not until the very end of the game.

The older generations had their weak points when it came to monster designs as well, but I prefer their more simple appearances to the more complex ones that we see today.

In short, I personally feel that the monster designs are getting worse in general, but that the games themselves are getting better with each new release.
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  #73  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

I like some of the changes made. I like some of the new Pokemon, I like the plot, I like the story, I like the music, I like the battling, and I like the trading. Although, I also do not like some of the changes. Some Pokemon I don't like, some sprites I don't like, some characters I don't like... you get the point.

I feel that Pokemon is trying to reach younger gamers now, rather than older.
I feel this way because I'm 13 and I haven't ever played through Red Blue or Yellow fully. When I was younger, I'd get my dad or brother to get me through caves and such because it was too difficult for me. Now, the newer games are clean and clear and I can progress through them well. They are trying to make it less difficult some people don't get frustrated.

Some people don't like the new changes simply because the Pokemon. Well, we all have our own opinions. I tend to lean more towards cute and cool Pokemon, rather than power and stats. Others like the simplicity of the Pokemon designs of Generation I. Others dislike newer Pokemon games because they don't get that nostalgic feeling they hope for. Some want to feel nostalgic with Pokemon because they feel Red and Blue were the glory days. I understand that, because I totally loved Gold and Crystal, but I liked HeartGold much better because I could easily navigate through the game with little challenge. I'm just not one of those people who totally boycotts Pokemon because of the newer games. I mean, I don't want very simple Pokemon designs. I want cool, creative Pokemon! It takes a lot of time to think of Pokemon, and a lot of planning for the new ones. No, I don't totally agree with every design, but someone else does.

I just guess I like newer games better than the old ones. Some people totally disagree, and that's okay, because we all have our own opinions. What bothers me is when people say liking new or old Pokemon isn't okay because they are "lame" or "ugly". I've even heard "stupid". No, that's not okay. If you totally liked a Pokemon and were totally obsessed with it, say, Bulbasaur, and someone else told you that Bulbasaur was ugly stupid and weak. Well, how would you feel? You think that Bulbasaur is so cool smart and strong! You know how to harness Bulbasaur's true power! You know it's moves, evolutions, and all!

You may totally love Ditto or Magikarp. Well, in my opinion, I dislike Ditto and Magikarp because I feel they are ugly, and pointless. How would you feel?

See what I'm saying? We need to all have our own opinions and respect others. We value our opinions and we all have favorites, but does that give us the right to disrespect others valued opinions? I think not.
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  #74  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

Personally, I think it's a little bit of both. Pokemon has become a little worse, I must say...*COUGHCOUGH*ASHKETCHUM*COUGHCOUGH* Hmm? Oh, right. Plus, some of has are becoming older and outgrowing stuff like Pokemon. It's sad to say, really. Cause, I remember, when I was, like, 5, I would watch the original Pokemon series on Cartoon Network in the morning. But now, I can't really watch the new ones. Ash NEVER gets older, he never takes any of his stronger Pokemon (Which I kinda get), and he ALWAYS LOSES AT SOME POINT IN THE BEGINNING. *Added to Logic* I mean, 'cmon, if you think logically, his Pikachu would beat everything in the beginning. *Added to Logic*

*Connects both pieces of Logic*
If Ash loses at some point in the beginning...
...and has a strong Pikachu, why does he lose?
It's because of...
[His Pikachu downgraded a bit]
-->[He doesn't think straight]
[He's ignoring the battle]

He's not thinking straight. I mean, even if he doesn't know how the Gym Leader fights, he still has a relatively great chance of winning.

And thus, ends this post.

THE END.
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  #75  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Are we just getting Older or is Pokemon getting worse?

All I notice is that they must make a new generation per year. No matter how the Pokemon looks like.
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