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  #1  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:50 AM
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Default [WAR XI] Debate Section



WAR XI Debate Section


Welcome to the Debate Section! I'm WebMaster, your official debate judge. To earn points, your argument must be more valid when compared to those for and against the topic at the same time. Points will be given like this.
  • Best "for" = 2 points
  • Best "against" = 2 points
  • Best argument = 2 points


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Old 06-24-2012, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Topic 1: Nintendo paved the way for a lot of what video games are today, but have some of their recent activities hinted that they're fading from the world of video games? Would you say Nintendo is falling behind its competitors in the video games industry? Or will the stuff they have planned keep them alive?

Topic is open until 11:59:59 on Saturday June 30.

Reminder: Remember to post your team's position and your team name.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Team name: Revolution Uprising
Team Position: No (Against)

The debate members of RU have decided that we all agree on no, that Nintendo is not falling behind.

I myself believe Nintendo is really trying to get ahead of the competition, and succeeding trying. Just look at Black 2 and White 2. The music in these games have been composed with much hard work. Many of the comments say that Nintendo isn't "screwing around" with this game. So I believe the stuff they have planned will not only keep them alive, but will enable them to surpass their competitors.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Team name: Revolution Uprising
Team Position: No (Against)

The debate members of RU have decided that we all agree on no, that Nintendo is not falling behind.

I myself believe Nintendo is really trying to get ahead of the competition, and succeeding trying. Just look at Black 2 and White 2. The music in these games have been composed with much hard work. Many of the comments say that Nintendo isn't "screwing around" with this game. So I believe the stuff they have planned will not only keep them alive, but will enable them to surpass their competitors.
Team Name: Not-So-Super Friends
Team Position: Yes

The success of one game cannot measure a companies ability to succeed in the marketplace. Back in the 90's the game company, Rare, was pumping out the wildly successful "Donkey Kong" series. In 2002, Rare was bought out by Microsoft. Even with all the success with one of the most popular game franchises of all time, they had to give in to their opponents. Nintendo's success cannot be measured solely by the success of B2W2.

Whether or not Nintendo is "screwing around" or not isn't the question. Nintendo didn't make B2W2. Gamefreak did. As of now, Gamefreak makes games exclusively for Nintendo, but is not owned by Nintendo. If Nintendo begins to fail, Gamefreak will go somewhere else. So again, B2W2's potential success(which is still to early to tell) cannot measure Nintendo's success.

I will concede that Nintendo is, at the moment, completely unrivaled in the handheld market. The only competitor is Sony's PSP, which is kind of a joke. It's only games appear to be strange exclusives with little following or bad ports of PS2 and PS3 games. However, Nintendo's monopoly on the handheld market doesn't ensure their financial security. Microsoft has talked about throwing its hat into the handheld market. If they are competing on nearly equal footing, the loss of a handheld monopoly could be fatal for Nintendo.

Most importantly of all, Nintendo is losing the console wars. Big time. With Microsoft's Kinect being sold in bundle with their Xbox360, they have stolen some of the Wii's console market. The Wii is totally unable to compete with the other consoles in the adult/teenage market. Its largest market is children, which Microsoft could very easily steal by marketing to nuclear families, wanting to buy a console that is appropriate for their entire family. Its also very hard to ignore the fact that the FPS genre is very popular and the best selling FPS titles, which are often the best selling games of the year, are not available on the Wii.

As far as gaming titles go, Nintendo has a strong base of classic titles with characters such as Mario and Link. However, Nintendo can't milk money out of its classic franchises forever. Eventually, probably sooner than later, people will bore of the same old game of "find the princess in the haystack" and move on.

The stake that will be driven into the heart of Nintendo in the modern gaming world however, is Nintendo's lack of multiplayer support. Everything is multiplayer these days and with good reason. People enjoy playing a game with their friends. Grand Theft Auto IV was a good game when judged exclusively on its singleplayer experience. The multiplayer was revoultionary however. Revolutionary and very simple. A group of friends can get together and wreak havoc on their environment. So simple and yet, Nintendo refuses to make their multiplayer enjoyable or easy to use. Its akin to being voluntarily kidnapped along with your friends. You are locked in a room where you are blindfolded and gagged, unable to speak to each other. Their is no mic support at all. There is no method of communication. In most multiplayer, communication is crucial or at the very least, much more enjoyable. I can respect that Nintendo doesn't want to compromise young children who play their games, but its severely hurting their sales. Either way, their reasons for ignoring the plea to fix their multiplayer system is not part of this debate. The point of the matter is, multiplayer is important and they are ignoring it.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorJesus View Post
Team Name: Not-So-Super Friends
Team Position: Yes

The success of one game cannot measure a companies ability to succeed in the marketplace. Back in the 90's the game company, Rare, was pumping out the wildly successful "Donkey Kong" series. In 2002, Rare was bought out by Microsoft. Even with all the success with one of the most popular game franchises of all time, they had to give in to their opponents. Nintendo's success cannot be measured solely by the success of B2W2.

Whether or not Nintendo is "screwing around" or not isn't the question. Nintendo didn't make B2W2. Gamefreak did. As of now, Gamefreak makes games exclusively for Nintendo, but is not owned by Nintendo. If Nintendo begins to fail, Gamefreak will go somewhere else. So again, B2W2's potential success(which is still to early to tell) cannot measure Nintendo's success.

I will concede that Nintendo is, at the moment, completely unrivaled in the handheld market. The only competitor is Sony's PSP, which is kind of a joke. It's only games appear to be strange exclusives with little following or bad ports of PS2 and PS3 games. However, Nintendo's monopoly on the handheld market doesn't ensure their financial security. Microsoft has talked about throwing its hat into the handheld market. If they are competing on nearly equal footing, the loss of a handheld monopoly could be fatal for Nintendo.

Most importantly of all, Nintendo is losing the console wars. Big time. With Microsoft's Kinect being sold in bundle with their Xbox360, they have stolen some of the Wii's console market. The Wii is totally unable to compete with the other consoles in the adult/teenage market. Its largest market is children, which Microsoft could very easily steal by marketing to nuclear families, wanting to buy a console that is appropriate for their entire family. Its also very hard to ignore the fact that the FPS genre is very popular and the best selling FPS titles, which are often the best selling games of the year, are not available on the Wii.

As far as gaming titles go, Nintendo has a strong base of classic titles with characters such as Mario and Link. However, Nintendo can't milk money out of its classic franchises forever. Eventually, probably sooner than later, people will bore of the same old game of "find the princess in the haystack" and move on.

The stake that will be driven into the heart of Nintendo in the modern gaming world however, is Nintendo's lack of multiplayer support. Everything is multiplayer these days and with good reason. People enjoy playing a game with their friends. Grand Theft Auto IV was a good game when judged exclusively on its singleplayer experience. The multiplayer was revoultionary however. Revolutionary and very simple. A group of friends can get together and wreak havoc on their environment. So simple and yet, Nintendo refuses to make their multiplayer enjoyable or easy to use. Its akin to being voluntarily kidnapped along with your friends. You are locked in a room where you are blindfolded and gagged, unable to speak to each other. Their is no mic support at all. There is no method of communication. In most multiplayer, communication is crucial or at the very least, much more enjoyable. I can respect that Nintendo doesn't want to compromise young children who play their games, but its severely hurting their sales. Either way, their reasons for ignoring the plea to fix their multiplayer system is not part of this debate. The point of the matter is, multiplayer is important and they are ignoring it.
I most certainly agree with you on the multiplayer and age group parts. Although, The Wii U is coming out soon, and look at the features, it may even attract the adult age group. The Wii U will have video chat to other Wii U users. This may appeal to children, but maybe there are long distance families who don't have a webcam or a computer. The Wii U does offer many new features than its predecessor. Even with the announcement of the Wii U, Nintendo has released M rated games such as Call of Duty to their game lists. This appeals to the older age group. With the Wii Fit, anyone who wants to get into shape but doesn't want to pay for a full year gym membership can get fit with their schedule and personal routines. When you see the commercials for these, you see women using them with sleek bodies and perfect curves. However, women with a clogged schedule may purchase the Wii to use the Wii Fit.

Nintendo is starting to make new characters for "representatives". Link and Mario will always have their shine, but the new characters appeal to younger children.This of course means less violence and language and such. If you think about it, Parents are more likely to buy the Wii for their children the any other console. Teens who have jobs most likely game, so this means they will be buying for their consoles. They will most likely be buying X-Box games or PS3 games, and they won't be looking for new consoles, and they will limit their spending for new X-Box games. As for the Wii, parents will get active with their child, and strict parents will rather their children play Wii Sports than L.A. Noire. Parents will want to please their children, so they will most likely buy them what they want for their Birthdays or Christmas. But, with teenagers, parents will be less likely to buy consoles for their children as they grow older. Therefore, children are more likely to get Wiis then teens are to get other consoles.

Nintendo's success is not solely based of of B2W2. BW pulled off an amazing score, and sales through the roof. Of course, fans of BW are more likely to get B2W2. Other Nintendo appliances pull in the money as well. Especially with the 3DS and DSi. Many of us don't have a Wii, have an X-Box or a PS3, but most of us also have a DS of some sort. Whether it be the DS, DSi, DSi XL, 3DS, DS Lite or want the upcoming 3DS XL. The sales from the consoles alone have pulled in millions if not more for Nintendo. Sony nor Microsoft produce as many consoles as Nintendo does. The NES, N64, GameCube, etc. All favorites of many of us. These Nintendo consoles no matter how old have payed off for Nintendo, and will continue to pull of and bring in the bucks for many years to come. Franchises such as Kirby, Mario, Zelda, and even Pokemon are being further developed into new games, such as Super Mario Bros. 2, or B2W2, or Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Time. The older franchises still bring in money! Newer franchises will also be further developed bringing in more and more dough for Nintendo! With each game getting better graphics, music, and plots, players will crave more.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Team Name: Revolution Uprising
Team Position: No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Post(put in spoiler tags to save space)
Spoiler:
I most certainly agree with you on the multiplayer and age group parts. Although, The Wii U is coming out soon, and look at the features, it may even attract the adult age group. The Wii U will have video chat to other Wii U users. This may appeal to children, but maybe there are long distance families who don't have a webcam or a computer. The Wii U does offer many new features than its predecessor. Even with the announcement of the Wii U, Nintendo has released M rated games such as Call of Duty to their game lists. This appeals to the older age group. With the Wii Fit, anyone who wants to get into shape but doesn't want to pay for a full year gym membership can get fit with their schedule and personal routines. When you see the commercials for these, you see women using them with sleek bodies and perfect curves. However, women with a clogged schedule may purchase the Wii to use the Wii Fit.

Nintendo is starting to make new characters for "representatives". Link and Mario will always have their shine, but the new characters appeal to younger children.This of course means less violence and language and such. If you think about it, Parents are more likely to buy the Wii for their children the any other console. Teens who have jobs most likely game, so this means they will be buying for their consoles. They will most likely be buying X-Box games or PS3 games, and they won't be looking for new consoles, and they will limit their spending for new X-Box games. As for the Wii, parents will get active with their child, and strict parents will rather their children play Wii Sports than L.A. Noire. Parents will want to please their children, so they will most likely buy them what they want for their Birthdays or Christmas. But, with teenagers, parents will be less likely to buy consoles for their children as they grow older. Therefore, children are more likely to get Wiis then teens are to get other consoles.

Nintendo's success is not solely based of of B2W2. BW pulled off an amazing score, and sales through the roof. Of course, fans of BW are more likely to get B2W2. Other Nintendo appliances pull in the money as well. Especially with the 3DS and DSi. Many of us don't have a Wii, have an X-Box or a PS3, but most of us also have a DS of some sort. Whether it be the DS, DSi, DSi XL, 3DS, DS Lite or want the upcoming 3DS XL. The sales from the consoles alone have pulled in millions if not more for Nintendo. Sony nor Microsoft produce as many consoles as Nintendo does. The NES, N64, GameCube, etc. All favorites of many of us. These Nintendo consoles no matter how old have payed off for Nintendo, and will continue to pull of and bring in the bucks for many years to come. Franchises such as Kirby, Mario, Zelda, and even Pokemon are being further developed into new games, such as Super Mario Bros. 2, or B2W2, or Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Time. The older franchises still bring in money! Newer franchises will also be further developed bringing in more and more dough for Nintendo! With each game getting better graphics, music, and plots, players will crave more.
Obviously being from the same team, me and Typhlosion Explosion agree that this stance is correct. I just want to add some things to this, as it stands. As some of you know, or most of you, Nintendo is becoming more of a "Family" brand. What I mean is, Nintendo has the highest percentage of E-Rated games. Now the way that gaming has evolved, families and E-Rated games are about half of the whole market. This is also a very stable part of the market, as there are always more families than there are more "traditional" gamers. And on RaptorJesus' point on FPS games usually being the best selling, look at 2010. Even though "Call of Duty: Black Ops" is at the top of the list, it's sold on the Wii. The next four games? Wii-Exclusive. As for 2011, Nintendo still holds more than a few top spots.

Also to say that Multi-Player is important is a good and strong point made by RaptorJesus, don't forget; Nintendo is becoming more family-oriented. Online is a scary place, and sometimes parents don't want their kids on it. Also, when you compared Nintendo to Rare, I saw that as comparing an apple to an orange. Rare didn't make consoles. Third-party developers are always changing and vanishing, only for more to be brought in. Look at Enix and SquareSoft, they combined. A lot of older third-party developers are also just vanishing, and a lot more are popping up. Ever heard of Media Molecule, co-developers of "LittleBigPlanet"? They were founded in 2006.

I do agree that while Nintendo can't milk its old franchises, it can use its new ones. Kingdom Hearts is quickly turning into a Nintendo-exclusive series, and The World Ends With You, one of my favorite games of all time, is also Nintendo-exclusive. It's also not Sony's PSP, it's Sony's PlayStation Vita that is now on the market, and I believe it's far from a joke, though it does fall short of the 3DS. The PSP, however, was insanely popular, and was far from a joke, becoming a major competitor in the handheld market. It had many original games, such as Dissidia and Phantasy Star Portable(also sported Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep). And last time I checked, they have a very, very large following. That's not to say it beat out the DS though; it was more popular due to it's third-party support in games like Scribblenauts and The World Ends With You.

When you look back on it, maybe Nintendo is more for Single-Player and local Multi-Player games. maybe that's the approach; call your friends, relax, sit on the couch, drink some soda/pop, and grab a controller each. Maybe Nintendo is taking a step back to what's really important in a game; Story, Gameplay, Music, and friends.
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max0596 View Post
Team Name: Revolution Uprising
Team Position: No



Obviously being from the same team, me and Typhlosion Explosion agree that this stance is correct. I just want to add some things to this, as it stands. As some of you know, or most of you, Nintendo is becoming more of a "Family" brand. What I mean is, Nintendo has the highest percentage of E-Rated games. Now the way that gaming has evolved, families and E-Rated games are about half of the whole market. This is also a very stable part of the market, as there are always more families than there are more "traditional" gamers. And on RaptorJesus' point on FPS games usually being the best selling, look at 2010. Even though "Call of Duty: Black Ops" is at the top of the list, it's sold on the Wii. The next four games? Wii-Exclusive. As for 2011, Nintendo still holds more than a few top spots.

True, there are certainly more families than traditional gamers. However, who is more likely to buy more games, a family with small children or a traditional gamer? The traditional gamer of course. I suppose I can't argue with the best seller's lists, but I really don't think the Wii market buys nearly as many games as the Xbox/Playstation market.

Also to say that Multi-Player is important is a good and strong point made by RaptorJesus, don't forget; Nintendo is becoming more family-oriented. Online is a scary place, and sometimes parents don't want their kids on it. Also, when you compared Nintendo to Rare, I saw that as comparing an apple to an orange. Rare didn't make consoles. Third-party developers are always changing and vanishing, only for more to be brought in. Look at Enix and SquareSoft, they combined. A lot of older third-party developers are also just vanishing, and a lot more are popping up. Ever heard of Media Molecule, co-developers of "LittleBigPlanet"? They were founded in 2006.

I understand Nintendo's reason for wimping out on multiplayer, I just don't think its good business. Most child-oriented games don't even have available multiplayer. How many times have you stepped onto a Wii Fit pad and thought, "Hey, I'd like to exercise with a bunch of strangers on the internet and have them shout profanity at me?". My guess is never. The idea that Nintendo has to remove a good multiplayer system so they can be family friendly is pretty stupid. I have trouble thinking of a family friendly title that would require online multiplayer.

I didn't even compare Rare to Nintendo. I used Rare as an example of the principle that a company can't be measured by a franchise success or two. Also, I don't really see why you brought up third party developers. Rare is still around, it was just bought by Microsoft.


I do agree that while Nintendo can't milk its old franchises, it can use its new ones. Kingdom Hearts is quickly turning into a Nintendo-exclusive series, and The World Ends With You, one of my favorite games of all time, is also Nintendo-exclusive. It's also not Sony's PSP, it's Sony's PlayStation Vita that is now on the market, and I believe it's far from a joke, though it does fall short of the 3DS. The PSP, however, was insanely popular, and was far from a joke, becoming a major competitor in the handheld market. It had many original games, such as Dissidia and Phantasy Star Portable(also sported Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep). And last time I checked, they have a very, very large following. That's not to say it beat out the DS though; it was more popular due to it's third-party support in games like Scribblenauts and The World Ends With You.

As a Kingdom Hearts Fan who has played the series since the beginning, I'd have to disagree with your strange idea that its becoming Nintendo exclusive. The first and second games in the series were both released on Playstation 2. Birth By Sleep came out in 2010 for PSP. No Kingdom Hearts game has been released since. There is a game planned for the 3DS, but I'd hardly say that qualifies as "becoming Nintendo exclusive" or at the very least, not quickly. As of right now, Sony has had more Kingdom Hearts games on their systems and the 3DS game will only even it out. I'd bet you that the next Kingdom Hearts game is released on the most recent Sony console as opposed to the Nintendo system, whether its Wii U vs PS3 or not.

Comparing the DS vs the PSP. The DS over its lifetime sold about 3 times the number of units that the PSP sold. Thats hardly competing. Now, thats DS' sales ending in March of 2012. The statistic I found for PSP ended in 2010. So lets factor in the sales of the Vita, which, by the way, I have never even seen. By Feb 2012, Sony reported a total sales of 2 million units worldwide. I wouldn't call those numbers much competing. The DS tramped the Playstation Portable. Despite my arguement, I uphold that the Nintendo handled market is massive.

The problem with this, lies in the rise of smartphone technology. We cannot pretend that smartphone technology and even tablet sales will not begin to move in on the sales of handheld gaming systems, probably, phasing them out sometime in the next 15 years. Honestly, if Nintendo was smart about this, they would get in on the smartphone business, but I don't see that happening.


When you look back on it, maybe Nintendo is more for Single-Player and local Multi-Player games. maybe that's the approach; call your friends, relax, sit on the couch, drink some soda/pop, and grab a controller each. Maybe Nintendo is taking a step back to what's really important in a game; Story, Gameplay, Music, and friends.

Unfortunately for your view of the new multiplayer, that is not what a large portion of game sales want. They want to be able to instantly be immersed in multiplayer action at will. Even if Nintendo is being noble and sticking to its guns, it isn't smart business and business is what keeps the money flowing.
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Oh, and those sales numbers I used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita#Sales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable#Sales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

And with that, the debate is closed for week 1. I'll post with results tomorrow.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Alright. Here are the results for week 1

Best "for": RaptorJesus + 2 points for Not-so-super Friends
Best "against": Max0596 + 2 points for Revolution Uprising
Best argument: This goes to RaptorJesus of WAR. You contradicted some facts at times (like ownership of Pokemon and Kingdom Hearts games) but your points were most relevant. + 2 points for Not-so-super friends.


Topic 2: Much of the buzz in the world of politics in the United States is Obamacare. Recently the Supreme Court upheld the provision requiring Americans to buy health insurance (a tax penalty would follow if requirement was not met) claiming that it fell within Congress's power to tax the people. Some countries like Canada already have a public healthcare system. What are you thoughts on healthcare systems? Should it be highly government controlled or left to do its own thing?
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Last edited by WebMaster; 07-02-2012 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

I was wondering if I have to necessarily follow my "team's position". I was considering arguing against WTP last week, but didn't bother because I felt it was too late and I wasn't sure if it was fine to do... Just wondering because I'm not entirely sure our views are the same, but I still want to debate...
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
I was wondering if I have to necessarily follow my "team's position". I was considering arguing against WTP last week, but didn't bother because I felt it was too late and I wasn't sure if it was fine to do... Just wondering because I'm not entirely sure our views are the same, but I still want to debate...
I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
I was wondering if I have to necessarily follow my "team's position". I was considering arguing against WTP last week, but didn't bother because I felt it was too late and I wasn't sure if it was fine to do... Just wondering because I'm not entirely sure our views are the same, but I still want to debate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorJesus View Post
I was wondering the same thing.
I would suppose that having a team be in agreement is not necessary. Consider this a tentative "yes." You may debate against your own team.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Team Name: Awesome!
Team Position: Government Controlled


Health care will always be a tricky subject to deal with. On one side you have an open healthcare system which allows Americans to gain access to the best doctors in the world, but getting the best treatment isn't cheap. These doctors and their specializations often come at a price that most Americans can't afford. On the other hand you have a system that is run more like HMO/PPO that companies have offered for years. As a member of the working class community and someone who has had HMO for many years I can say that it has pros and cons. Being part of an HMO means you can only go to doctors chosen by your health care provider, but a large percentage of the cost is covered. The HMO system has been accused of pushing clients through without really giving the best treatment.

With both sides having pros in cons it really comes down to what is the value of a human life? Government Controlled Health Care should be something that was put in place years ago. The system still needs work, taxing people for their health care makes perfect sense but with limitations. Even with the taxes being raised, universal health care still makes more sense than what we have now. If Government Controlled Health means that every man, women and child will get help when they need it. Than we have a moral obligation to do what we can to make sure that happens.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2012, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

And with that, Debate is closed with only one post. Gotta say I'm a little disappointed with the turnout. If you guys have a better topic, please feel free to contact me.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

The results for this week are

Best "for": Judge Dredd of Awesome + 2 points
Best "against": None. That's 2 points down the drain. Shame
Best argument: Judge Dredd of Awesome + 2 points

Here is this week's debate topic

Topic 3: Marijuana. Some contend that the side effects of using it are minuscule and legalizing it would help bring down the illegal drug market. Others argue that pot should stay illegal because it could lead to use of other drugs among other reasons. What do you think should be done about the use of marijuana? Should it become legalized, or should it stay illegal?
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