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  #1  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:05 AM
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Default Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

I was wondering what other people thought of knock-offs/similar games, like Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc.

Personally, I hate 'em. Yu-Gi-Oh is just a more weird complicated version of Pokemon, and Digimon seems aimed more at the younger folks out there. Buuut just my two cents. :B

What is your take? Do you play them? Do you hate them?
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

I feel like you don't know much about Yu-Gi-Oh if you think that it's "just a more weird complicated version of Pokémon". It's a completely different premise, where as Pokémon and Digimon are based around capturing and controlling wild creatures, Yu-Gi-Oh is a card game, and always has been. I can understand if you might think that since the monsters come alive but that's all magic and technology (depending on the series) and still really shares no similarities to Pokémon. The ideas behind them both are completely different, and they are completely different apart from the fact there are monsters, and they both have games, an anime, and manga. Yes, there is a Pokémon TCG but that is a lot younger than Yu-Gi-Oh and even then, the two card games are incredibly different and work in different ways. There are no games between the two series that are remotely similar, barring Pokémon TCG on the GBC and the TCGO thing, but that's not enough grounds to call them similar at all.

At any rate, I have no problem with series that spin-off from Pokémon. It's a reasonably unique series and there will inevitably be games and anime that are similar. It's like saying we can't have platforming games because of Mario. Granted, I don't personally enjoy some of them like Digimon, they are good to have and there are some that I find interesting. There is creature capture game for mobile in development that I'm following that looks really promising and is based on the prospect of Pokémon, so spin-offs can't be all that bad. :b
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

Yu-Gi-Oh, to me, is pretty complicated. I acutally know a lot about it, since I used to play a little with my brother. Magic cards can be seen as brief status alignments. The monsters are well, the Pokemon. The power is the power of a Pokemon's moves, and the HP is the HP. Defense can be seen as the defense stat of Pokemon, and effects as abilities. Granted, some Pokemon mechanics are more complicated than Yu-Gi-Oh by far, but Yu-Gi-Oh in general imo is pretty complicated. The type of the monster (Fairy, Dragon, etc) can be seen as a Pokemon Type.

Yu-Gi-Oh is pretty similar to the Pokemon TCG in many ways. Attack is the power of moves, Defense is HP, etc etc. Yu-Gi-Oh is probably aimed more at older players, maybe late teens. Pokemon ranges, but if you're getting competitive, it usually goes up into early teens to adulthood. Yu-Gi-Oh is complicated, but not /hard/. Once you learn how to play it strategically, you pretty much can easily handle anything, like competitive battling. I don't really think competitive battling is hard either; I've had more trouble with in game trainers than veteran competitive battlers. The environment is harsh though, so I stay away from people like that.

I'm not much for Digimon, ha ha. No offense to the players, but when I learned every Digimon ended with "mon" I loled pretty hard. It doesn't really affect the game play, just kinda funny to me. :P

I'm not saying we shouldn't have them, I'm just saying I don't like them. One monster game is enough for me. xD
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

You can't really loosely compare a few aspects of the games and then say that they're similar. Saying that spell cards could be seen as statuses, and that attack and defense relate to the power of moves and HP is really vague since they're general aspects of the game. They are the equivalent of the same ideas that every single strategy/fighter/rts/fps/etc use. The concepts of having health, power, and special traits, something which is common to more than half the games that exist, don't relate two games.

Following that logic, I could argue that the CoD series is similar to YGO because there are different strength weapons with different stats. Attachments for guns could be seen as equip spell cards. Perks could be seen as a spell card or a Trainer card. You have health in CoD, just like your lifepoints in YGO. There are bad guys in YGO and bad guys in CoD. I could continue all day. Relating these generic parts of a game doesn't make them similar, because they are an underlying feature that these games need and we take for granted. It's like saying that two people look similar because they both have eyes, a nose, and a mouth.
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

Spoiler:

Keitai Denjū Telefang was developed by smilesoft in 2000 for the gameboy color, it is very similar to pokemon, but the gameplay revolves around using a cellphone. It is so similar to pokemon it was bootlegged and sold as pokemon around the world. Smilesoft was considering to release it outside japan, but then the boss for smilesoft was arrested for child abuse, the entire game was forgotten and smilesoft shut down, it was so forgotten, the website is still up
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

HP, Defense, etc are seen in a lot of games. Yu-Gi-Oh is more similar to Pokemon because they use monsters that fight in duels (battles) and really, is like Pokemon in many ways. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have differences from Pokemon, because it has a lot. It also has a lot of similarities. The fact that Pokemon was in production and generally released before these knock-offs set the stone for games such as. I could almost guarantee the developers of Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh had at least a small thought of Pokemon when developing/creating/etc these games. The TCG came out in 1996, Konami released Yu-Gi-Oh two years later. It's almost certain that they may've sparked off a few ideas from Pokemon, including other games as well. Is that a bad thing? No, not at all. Pokemon is successful, as for Yu-Gi-Oh, I have no idea. I don't see it around as much. Pokemon is probably one of the most successful monster battle RPG games there is, of course there will be knock-offs, smilar games, copiers, bootlegs, etc. Has Pokemon sparked ideas from other games? Almost certain. It's over ten years old, inspiration had to come from somewhere. Just because I personally dislike Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon doesn't mean they should cease production. People everywhere hate Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon, Pokemon, Mario, Link and Zelda, etc. Ever game has haters, and that alone shouldn't restrict anyone else who enjoys the game to enjoy it. I hate a lot of things, especially games. I don't like Link and Zelda, I don't like Mario, I even hate first person shooters. Just because a game has thousands, millions, hundreds, of haters, doesn't mean it should be ceased. It's hard to say Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't share similarities with Pokemon and Digimon. Just because it has similarities doesn't mean it's any different than any other game who share similarities. CoD, Gears of War, (I can't name any more because I don't know anymore) are all almost the exact same thing, boring, stupid, and pointless. There's still a market out there for them, so people will continue to make the near exact same games forever and ever and ever, the market will never die for certain games. The market can't really die for any games, it just depends on how strong the market is to determine if the game will cease production.

tl;dr, Yu-Gi-Oh probably copied some of Pokemon, as did Digimon. Pokemon probably copied some aspects of Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon, as well as other games. Doesn't matter, people still play and buy them. Just because I or anyone else hates Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't mean it should totally poof out of existence, people still buy them and play them. I don't care for Yu-Gi-Oh one smidge, it copies Pokemon almost directly imo, but doesn't mean no one else should.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

Typhlo-Explo, have you actually watched or played Yugioh? Have you bothered to get into it in anyway? Shouldn't talk about something you don't know much (if not anything) about. I've played and looked into both, and the only thing they realistically have in common are things that are in MANY video games and the fact that they both started in Japan.

If anyone wants to, they are welcome to continue this thread appropriately. Otherwise, please help to prove either point, but only if you actually have knowledge about BOTH Pokemon AND Yugioh
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
I actually know a lot about it, since I used to play a little with my brother.
As stated before, yes, I do know about it. Seems pretty unreal people would think it doesn't have many similarities to Pokemon, because it /does/. It also has many differences. If it had too many similarities, it'd probably be a bootleg rather than a knock-off. Yu-Gi-Oh is near perfect in relation to the Pokemon TCG. Different monsters, card designs, and names. Of course, all TCG are like that. I explained myself earlier.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

I'm just gonna tear bits and pieces off of that post and try to make sense of this
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Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
I acutally know a lot about it, since I used to play a little with my brother.
Do you realise that statement contradicts itself? You can't really know a "lot" about something if you've played a "little". Just wanted to point that out there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Seems pretty unreal people would think it doesn't have many similarities to Pokemon, because it /does/.
Seems pretty unreal people would think anything Japanese isn't similar to other Japanese things. Seems pretty unreal one card game is in no way similar to another card game - Oh wait. Aren't you comparing Yugioh to the actual Pokemon games? Pokemon's TCG is realistically a spin-off OF the thing it's about, so...that, and I'm not even sure which one you're talking about any more (the woe of listening to someone so young...). Either way, it's not too easy to not compare these two things, but to say that Yugioh is a SPIN-OFF is too much, since the main Pokemon games and the Yugioh TCG are just too different:
Monsters - PKMN: 6, YGO: Usually up to 20.
Combat system - PKMN: (Passive) Abilities, stats, moves (of different types and power) and typing. YGO: Monster effects, traps & spells, and simple attack power.
Progression - PKMN: Experience and levels. YGO: Uhh...wins?
Winning conditions - PKMN: Health of all your mons (your mons, not the trainer itself) YGO: Life points (of the player, not the monsters)
There are more things that are just too different to say Yugioh's a spin-off of Pokemon
(Oh, incase anyone didn't know, PKMN = Pokemon, YGO = Yugioh)
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Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
If it had too many similarities, it'd probably be a bootleg rather than a knock-off.
Can't comment on that, but knock-off? You've got to be kidding me...you said you played it right? How can Yugioh be a knock-off of Pokemon? Just tell me (and spare me the whole similar gameplay. What about the internals? The differences between the use of Pokemon and the ideas of Yugioh or whatever else)
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Yu-Gi-Oh is near perfect in relation to the Pokemon TCG. Different monsters, card designs, and names. Of course, all TCG are like that.
Near perfect?
-The fact that Pokemon cards (the actual "monsters" in the game) have health while almost every other TCG I know of doesn't include that? That's a major difference.
-I'll admit that Trainer cards do seem to act like Magic/Spell cards, so I'll give you that.
-Different monsters, card designs, and names? Makes me wonder: Is what's in your head a brain or a pea?
-Pokemon cards have many 'mons of the same type but simply have different moves, while there are many more Yugioh monsters, each copy having the same effect, ATK and DEF points (and level and more).
-I guess the star system in Yugioh and the Evolution system in Pokemon is similar in the idea of sacrificing what's on your field for stronger monsters, except Yugioh isn't usually limited by only being able to place a monster by using a specific other monster as tribute (there are some, but that's only some out of the humongous list of cards)
-Cards needed to let your Pokemon do more powerful moves? Only uses the idea of costs that's within TCG's (which you did kinda say), but the fact it's an attack being similar to monster effects from Yugioh? That's a fair bit of a difference.

But one thing I have to say before I finish off: Did you actually check all your dates? Yeah. Pokemon started in 1996, but Yugioh also started in that same year. Sure it matured into what it is now, but the fact still stands that it did start the same year as Pokemon.

Can you again tell me how much you think Yugioh is a "spin-off" or "knock-off" of Pokemon again? This thread has started to amuse me, and you remaining silent will be the best fun of all
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi256 View Post
Do you realise that statement contradicts itself? You can't really know a "lot" about something if you've played a "little". Just wanted to point that out there
Yu-Gi-Oh, complicated as it is to master, doesn't take much to grab a hold of a common knowledge of. I've played a little here and there, but grasping knowledge isn't difficult, or nine year old kids wouldn't play it.

Quote:
Oh wait. Aren't you comparing Yugioh to the actual Pokemon games? Pokemon's TCG is realistically a spin-off OF the thing it's about, so...that, and I'm not even sure which one you're talking about any more (the woe of listening to someone so young...).
As is the Yu-Gi-Oh anime to the card game. Your point?

Quote:
Either way, it's not too easy to not compare these two things, but to say that Yugioh is a SPIN-OFF is too much, since the main Pokemon games and the Yugioh TCG are just too different:
Monsters - PKMN: 6, YGO: Usually up to 20.
Combat system - PKMN: (Passive) Abilities, stats, moves (of different types and power) and typing. YGO: Monster effects, traps & spells, and simple attack power.
Progression - PKMN: Experience and levels. YGO: Uhh...wins?
Winning conditions - PKMN: Health of all your mons (your mons, not the trainer itself) YGO: Life points (of the player, not the monsters)
There are more things that are just too different to say Yugioh's a spin-off of Pokemon
The games aren't as similar to the card game as the Pokemon TCG is. I stated that in my post before yours. Did you even read it? I also said Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon had their differences, but the big picture is the same. Having monsters and battling with them to become the best, clear the world of evil or what have you from whatever game. I also stated (before you rashly try to argue this), that Pokemon was most likely not the first to come up with this concept.

Quote:
Can't comment on that, but knock-off? You've got to be kidding me...you said you played it right? How can Yugioh be a knock-off of Pokemon? Just tell me (and spare me the whole similar gameplay. What about the internals? The differences between the use of Pokemon and the ideas of Yugioh or whatever else)
In hindsight, knock-off was a bad word to use. Pokemon knock-offs are boot leg games like Chaos Black. However, Yu-Gi-Oh still bears striking resemblance in the goal as Pokemon does. Collect, trade, and battle.

Quote:
Near perfect?
-The fact that Pokemon cards (the actual "monsters" in the game) have health while almost every other TCG I know of doesn't include that? That's a major difference.
Did you think I was referring to baseball card trading? Ha ha, no. Of all of the games that have monsters with HP (life points or what have you) all are similar. The main goal is similar. Not the whole thing is just copied. All stated in my previous post.

Quote:
-Pokemon cards have many 'mons of the same type but simply have different moves, while there are many more Yugioh monsters, each copy having the same effect, ATK and DEF points (and level and more).
Exactly where did I say they were the exact same thing in every detail? Attack is the power of the attack in both games. Defense is the amount of damage it can take before fainting/dying/being removed from play/to the graveyard/etc.

Quote:
-Cards needed to let your Pokemon do more powerful moves? Only uses the idea of costs that's within TCG's (which you did kinda say), but the fact it's an attack being similar to monster effects from Yugioh? That's a fair bit of a difference.
Moving on from the TCG, the in-game Pokemon have abilities, like the Monster have effects. Also stated earlier.

Quote:
But one thing I have to say before I finish off: Did you actually check all your dates? Yeah. Pokemon started in 1996, but Yugioh also started in that same year. Sure it matured into what it is now, but the fact still stands that it did start the same year as Pokemon.
The anime was released in 1998. That's what I was referring to. Pokemon was in development from 1990 on, and Mew was patented early 1994. Not to mention, the original Red and Green was released in 1995. Did you check your dates as well?

Quote:
Can you again tell me how much you think Yugioh is a "spin-off" or "knock-off" of Pokemon again?
It is a similar game to Pokemon. Pokemon was released earlier, so Yu-Gi-Oh had time to snatch some ideas (possible, possibly not). Still very similar point-wise. Point as in, the point of the game.

Quote:
This thread has started to amuse me, and you remaining silent will be the best fun of all
Did you really think I wouldn't respond? You must be new here. B)

Quote:
-Different monsters, card designs, and names? Makes me wonder: Is what's in your head a brain or a pea?
In case you haven't read the rules, you cannot insult another member. You may present your argument validly, without attacking someone's character. I'll excuse you, this time, and leave you with this warning.
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

I have yet to make a proper post, but just a few things are nibbling at me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Yu-Gi-Oh, complicated as it is to master, doesn't take much to grab a hold of a common knowledge of. I've played a little here and there, but grasping knowledge isn't difficult, or nine year old kids wouldn't play it.
Same with Pokemon, but common knowledge is just not enough to say, "Hey. These games are similar because I know enough of the games to say it is." I'll leave it at this before I think up a better post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
As is the Yu-Gi-Oh anime to the card game. Your point?
Little misconception on your part. The Yugioh anime is what spawned the card game, or more technically it was the Yugioh manga that began it. Of course, the card games is based almost entirely (except for tiny aspects) on the anime, whereas the TCG for Pokemon is based as best as it can get to Pokemon, though that's due to the difference in medium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
In case you haven't read the rules, you cannot insult another member. You may present your argument validly, without attacking someone's character. I'll excuse you, this time, and leave you with this warning.
Forgive me for this, but sometimes it's hard to refrain when I feel like I must correct what seems like an ignorant thing to say (the reason is that I like both franchises for the differences and variety they bring and, of course, the content within each). This is not an insult as much as it is an observation. I am sorry that I insulted you as I did, and I'll try not to let it happen again.

And one other small thing. If you read, it says I joined about 4 and a bit years ago, but I had a massive inactivity (I was mildly active, mostly just to close IRL friends, before I stopped). Funnily enough, this thread alone is what brought be to post.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind some more people coming in to say their opinions on this whole, "Is Yu-Gi-Oh a spin-off of Pokemon or not?" thing.
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Last edited by Yoshi256; 02-07-2013 at 10:37 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Pokemon Similar Games/Knock-Offs?

As both a Yu-Gi-Oh and pokemon fan boy I must interject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
In hindsight, knock-off was a bad word to use. Pokemon knock-offs are boot leg games like Chaos Black. However, Yu-Gi-Oh still bears striking resemblance in the goal as Pokemon does. Collect, trade, and battle.
By that logic, wouldn't that make Magic the Gathering, and just about every other TCG a rip off of whichever was the first to come out?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Did you think I was referring to baseball card trading? Ha ha, no. Of all of the games that have monsters with HP (life points or what have you) all are similar. The main goal is similar. Not the whole thing is just copied. All stated in my previous post.
That is because they are combat orientated games. Even then, the goal is still different. In Yu-Gi-Oh I can win without killing all of my opponents monsters, or I can kill them all and still not have won, depending on how the game is played. It is the player who must remain protected at all cost in Yu-Gi-Oh. It is the pokemon in Pokemon TCG that must stay alive. The goal is different in the two games. The way to reach that goal is similar. Fighting.


As for the anime, that of YuGiOh tends to be a bit darker than that of Pokemon. I remember that when I was in primary school, Yu-Gi-Oh cards were banned for many reasons. One being that kids were doing Shadow Duels and the younger kids were scared they would lose their soul.

I admit that the whole gym badge/star chips thing is similar, but then again in real life, to make it to the big leagues in sport, music etc anything competitive, you need to prove yourself by beating other people and earning a name for yourself to qualify. If I wanted to be the best soccer player, I would need to start off at the bottom and win titles to move up and become known. To qualify in tournaments I would need to win other matches. Kinda like how Ash needs 8 badges to enter the pokemon league, or Yugi needs 10 star chips to take on Pegasus.

Pokemon shows a world where humans and pokemon generally live in harmony. Yu-Gi-Oh shows a world slightly more advanced than our own, where a childrens card game is taken way too seriously. Most people don't have massive emotional attachments to their Yu-Gi-Oh cards (Except for the main characters, especially Kaiba and his dragon fetish).
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