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  #16  
Old 08-08-2005, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Hate to say this again, but:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NP
My only realization was that either you work your ass off alone on an idea, or you need deadly serious teamwork that comes with a good reward, and teamwork was what we didn’t have for Season 3 and 4
Really assesses the problems of the WAR. I have some ideas to make the war more active, but this isn't a WAR 5 topic, unless you want to hear them . But to summarize my ideas, You need more active WAR Leaders who are on virtually every day. I'd be willing... PF also looks good for the job too
  #17  
Old 08-08-2005, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Ierdar its not the fact that hes trying to offer advice, its the fact that nobody asked him for it and the fact that the only reason it got any attention is because hes a Gmod. Any regular member posting this would've been flamed up the hizza by now and the thread would have been locked. Imagine if !ceman posted this, you would be all over him...what would happen if a newer member with about 100 or so posts put this up?

This is called Privilege. And we are not all equal on this forum once some members get certain rights and some do not.

Not only this, but he makes the assumption that we are all better off by receiving his advice. I live my life according to my own principles, and let others do the same for the most part. I dont appreciate being told how to act...who is he to judge us and tell us how to live our lives? Who is he to say he knows more than any other member posting here? what qualifies him to correct us? I dont see anything that does frankly...

furthermore the advice itself is overly optimistic, and untrue in many cases. giving up is an inevitability, and can sometimes be used to our advantage, give up on one venture and open up a whole new doors of possibilities. who knows what is good and what is bad in the end...
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Last edited by Finglonger; 08-09-2005 at 12:03 AM.
  #18  
Old 08-09-2005, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomish
Woah, chill out guys. Heís just trying to help, sheeshÖ Youíre being a little harsh, donít ya think? His intentions are pure and heís not placing himself above anyone.
Three threads, one in announcements, the one he stickied and locked so none one can touch it besides another G-mod, and this one. Do you really think all of that was necessary? And yes, letís not forget the whole purpose of this thread was to discuss ďWhat kinds of doubts stop us from taking the first step and how can we overcome them?Ē Sorry Shroomish, but last time I checked, PE2K isnít school and Harry isnít a teacher. You want to know why ElimN8 and I said to hell with being a War Leader? This is why. We got tired of working for hours trying to think of the next big idea to watch fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomish
Sometimes we need Dr. Phill speeches to pick us up, and as corny as they sometimes sound, they are true. I know weíre adults (or at least young adults) and you think we donít need to hear ďYouíre good, donít listen to negative criticism! You can do it!Ē but you know, sometimes we actually do. Sometimes these things can actually inspire us.
Inspire us to do what? Think about where this is going, Shroomish. Bash created the War because he had the opportunity to do so, and had the activity to actually make it work and be possible. He had the ability to work in peace without someone on his back to get to work on it. And now, it feels like it doesnít work like that anymore. Ideas donít just come from no where or because Harry told us that he wants them. In my opinion, this is a really unrealistic and ineffective way of trying to squeeze ideas out of people. I highly doubt anyone is holding back an idea out of fear. People are holding it back because they know itís not going to work around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomish
Which is a point worth making. If we donít tell people theyíre skilled or talented at something, then they wonít know. Imagine if no one ever left any feedback in the fan fiction department. How would the authors know how well they were doing? Perhaps we should take a little time out of our busy schedules to throw a few, honest complements around. Even if you think theyíre pointless and no one listens to them, youíre wrong. Personally, Iíve failed a lot in my life and to get a good word shot my way makes me feel not so worthless for a second. Iím sure other people feel the same way, and even if you donít have low self confidence and think you donít need anyoneís opinion, you know you want it deep down. You want someone to tell you how well you can write or draw, how well you battle or play a certain game, something, anything positive.
Shroomish, try talking to HMG about how she feels about the fan fiction section, and youíll definitely be surprised at what youíll get in response. She would totally disagree with the comment that you made regarding that there shouldnít be any negative criticism in anything. To be judged fairly is understandable, but nothing but praise, praise, praise only destroys a person when they start getting too overconfident for their own good. And now, I have trouble talking to her because itís something she never, ever forgets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomish
On another, more on-topic note, we do need regular updates. I agree with that. And a positive atmosphere wouldn't hurt either.
I think we need to be left alone for a while, and stop trying to come up with yet another competition just because Harry wants to outperform Bulbagarden Forums like we have to meet some kind of quota here. I couldnít believe his reaction after I spent hours piecing together an RPG idea and he said that we should just hurry along with this and come up with something else soon after word. To him, heís never content with how the forum is and he feels like we constantly need to pound it with ideas like trying to squeeze blood from a stone. And to say the least, Iím getting really sick of this. If he really wants to see a new idea come about, either he creates it, or he stays patient and waits for someone to put it together by themselves in peace.

And yeah, Finglonger is right. Harry isnít the overseer of PE2K, and any idea that comes around from anyone does not have to be Harryís business. Again, heís being overly optimistic because he feels some kind of amazing revelation of new ideas is going to happen when itís not. And sorry, but for him to expect that and squeeze it out of people is just plain wrong.
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2005, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Really what we need to is to work from the website first and then the forum itself. I just think that right now the priority is to get Ryan a partner or a team on the website. The question is WHY he hasn't done it in the last 2 years when he already had that idea for those 2 years. We need to "rebuild" the foundation FIRST, then this sister forum after. Most certainly we need this as the priority right there, esp. when a number of us will be unable to do as much outside this summer time, we can at least find some people that can help. Heck admin tRO, RAMS, ANYBODY who can possibly do something about the website...

I've always wondered why we never actually expand outside of pokemon when clearly we can have the resources to do such things. Why no affiliate and the like? I mean, to get through to the fountain of ideas, sometimes the limits of the board must be expanded first, IMO. Certainly expanding to other aspects of culture may be something that we must do to get through then. I don't know for sure if any of this will boost activity or not, but it might be worth a shot.

As for Kim's motivational speech there. I don't think it would be necessary if you think up ideas that will increase activity.
  #20  
Old 08-09-2005, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

I talked with Harry on AIM last night regarding this whole thing. To put it short, I feel the War is like a fallen building, and this was just some means to quickly build on top of it without clearing the rubble first. To me, it seemed reckless, in any case, to start trying to think of solutions this early when we still have to consider that the War may in fact be no more from this point on. Yeah, seeing the War fall apart like this is enough to demoralize anyone, and some of us have been more affected than others. Regardless, maybe itís not the best solution to think of ideas all of a sudden when weíre still filled with the mentality like everything we do around here is just a waste of time and will just fail regardless. If anything, I think we need a few moments to ourselves just to think things over, or at least I do anyway.

And again, I think the main problem here is Ryanís absence. Sure, he comes on to post news articles and whatever, but itís usually G-mods that have to bear the rest of the weight on our shoulders trying to think of ways to make the forum fun and interesting. And yet, even with as much power as we have, itís not enough. Iíve come to realize why so many other forums have multiple admins. Iíve come to realize why so many people try creating other forums so they finally have the admin rights they have so desperately wanted. And this is probably why people are so negative, and why Iíve started having doubts about everything. The thing is, Ryan used to be really active at PE2K and would post all over the place, and now he comes on for a few seconds, and just leaves. My only question here is why he doesnít give anyone else admin rights to see what they could do with the forum in their own way. But my only guess is he really doesnít want it any other way, regardless of any benefit that could arise from it. And Kenny, those are great ideas, but again, will they ever be considered to be implemented?

And to me, it just seems like that's what's causing people to lose their faith in this place. Like we can create all the endless possibilities we want, but they don't mean anything if they never get the chance to actually happen.
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2005, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

two words, NP

n00b h4x0r

You see, it's not the activities or gimmicks or even aesthetic beauty that makes a forum (All of which n00b h4x0r lacked). It's the people. We had the best members there, even thought it was a sausage fest.



However, if this is just a gimmick to fulfill the prophecy which I so divinated a year or two ago...
  #22  
Old 08-09-2005, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Pikachu
And again, I think the main problem here is Ryanís absence. Sure, he comes on to post news articles and whatever, but itís usually G-mods that have to bear the rest of the weight on our shoulders trying to think of ways to make the forum fun and interesting. And yet, even with as much power as we have, itís not enough. Iíve come to realize why so many other forums have multiple admins. Iíve come to realize why so many people try creating other forums so they finally have the admin rights they have so desperately wanted. And this is probably why people are so negative, and why Iíve started having doubts about everything. The thing is, Ryan used to be really active at PE2K and would post all over the place, and now he comes on for a few seconds, and just leaves. My only question here is why he doesnít give anyone else admin rights to see what they could do with the forum in their own way. But my only guess is he really doesnít want it any other way, regardless of any benefit that could arise from it. And Kenny, those are great ideas, but again, will they ever be considered to be implemented?
Well one is that I know this is exam time. So this may be part of the cause. What we really DO need are more admins yes. Historically Ryan was not the only admin in PE2K forums before, and I sure as heck think that Ryan can do it again if we push him enough.
  #23  
Old 08-09-2005, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002
Well one is that I know this is exam time. So this may be part of the cause. What we really DO need are more admins yes. Historically Ryan was not the only admin in PE2K forums before, and I sure as heck think that Ryan can do it again if we push him enough.
The same Ryan who refuses to be pressured into appointing new Moderators? I don't think we can do anything to change his mind on the Admin issue.
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2005, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Fair]
The same Ryan who refuses to be pressured into appointing new Moderators? I don't think we can do anything to change his mind on the Admin issue.
He should (change his mind), it's about the only reasonable thing he can do if he still cares even a little about this place. I don't know how to get him to change his mind, or who to make him change it; but at least it's certain what kind of people those admins should be; active people, thinking people, people who can communicate with the other admins. If there are only three other admins, Ryan can be as inactive as he wants, as long as he keeps track of the major things. I don't remember who said it, but the thing about the site is good too. That should be one of the first things to be improved, and then the Forum. Perhaps new admins should be a bit specialized too; an admin who takes care of the main site, and admins who do what Ryan does on the Forum, only in a much better way. So basically, you split Ryan's job into two subjects.

Also, exams shouldn't be brought up as an excuse. I know they take their toll; I must admit that my own marks have suffered a bit due to PE2K. But even during exams-time, a dedicated admin can do better. But guess what? Here's another advantage of more admins; they won't all be bothered at the same time with exams.

I don't know about anyone here. I'm relatively new here, and even I can tell that PE2k is even less then when I joined. I like it less than before. But I, for one, haven't lost faith in PE2k. This can still be a great place. I haven't even lost faith in the WAR, though that's probably partly due to my inexperience at failed attempts. The only problem is there should be radical changes. And while we could have made those for the WAR, for the forum Ryan will have to do it.
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2005, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

I, for one, think Kenny, Neo and Kim would make great admins. But, like I said before, our opinions don't matter much to Ryan. If admins are added, it'll be because Ryan thinks admins should be added. Not because we think Ryan could use some help.

I don't know how many of you remember it, but a few years ago, I was the first person to start a petition on these forums. The goal of it was for Nate to become a G-Mod. I don't remember exactly how many signatures it recieved, but there were quite a few. The end result? The same as every other petition that's been started since. It was locked, and disregarded.

Ryan obviously knows what he wants for these forums. If he thinks more admins are necessary, he'll add them. The role that we, the members, will have in that process will ultimately be nonexistant. I invite Ryan to prove me wrong, though.

I don't mean for this post to be disrespectful in any way. I'm just stating my honest opinion. I mean, hell, what have I got left to lose?
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

I honestly doubt I would be a good choice for an admin considering how irritable Iíve been lately, but thatís mainly in part from all the doubts Iíve been having. I know Iíve already lost a lot of trust from HKim, probably the worst case yet, but Iíve really had to say that things arenít well enough around here to start heading in that direction. Weíre not dealing with a pretty time here, and things are going wrong left and right in a way Iíve never seen it before. I havenít felt this fed up in a long time and I know people are noticing it, so please bear with me. Iím sure itís happening to everyone to some degree, and I canít keep my optimism anymore.

To me, itís not a problem if Ryan doesnít want to appoint more admins, but then heíd better get on the ball himself and start trying to think of something that could help this place, because itís only getting worse every passing day. Because heís the only admin, a lot rides on his shoulders, and a lot is expected of him. Yes, he has the site to run, yes, he has events to post, and we know thatís a lot for one person. What he needs to realize is yes, maybe it is too hard for him to do it all alone and still be in tune with what happens on this site. I know Ryan feels that change isnít necessary, but everything has to be dynamic to survive. Sure, he may say ďwell of course I care about the forumĒ but actions speak louder than words here. Either we get more admins to cover what he canít cover and create the things that PE2K needs such as additional boards, or we continue this downward spiral thatís been raging on for a ridiculous about of time. Itís up to him, and we all know itís his forum. And yes, we have to ask what kind of direction heís intending to drive it in, because right now, weíre definitely heading in the wrong one. I donít want to see a forum where failures are expected to happen because people are negative and doubtful. G-mods canít create the boards for new ideas to flourish, only Ryan can. The problem is that unless Ryan perfectly knows what these ideas are and what they intend to do, then we run into a wall, and the only thing that idea does is continue to sink in the quicksand.

For one thing, Iíve never seen him involved with helping the URPG, Iíve never seen him involved with helping the War, and the list goes on. We need people who can handle the demands of those sections when the moment arises. Maybe the URPG needs some subforums, but how would Ryan know? Maybe the Clubs thread needs a subforum for the War, but how would Ryan know unless he took part in it himself or made sure he was aware of what was needed without someone to tell him so? Despite a little posting in Other Anime, he never ventures outside the Intro Boards. And letís not forget how hard it is to approach him with anything without getting turned down for it. TT got banned for something that didnít even happen on the forum, it happened on AIM. And letís face it, every G-mod here is more active than he is. Want proof?

PokemonElite2000 Ė 1,006 posts (1.92 posts per day)

HKim Ė 1,085 posts (2.07 posts per day)
Hoenn Mirror Girl - 3,692 posts (7.07 posts per day)
Kenny_C.002 - 2,308 posts (4.40 posts per day)
Kronos Ė 6,202 posts (11.92 posts per day)
lil_leprachaun33 Ė 2,684 posts (5.14 posts per day)
Neo Pikachu Ė 4,376 posts (8.35 posts per day)
Zenaku Ė 2,187 posts (4.17 posts per day)

I know Ryan canít handle it all, and thatís why we need other admins who can take command when Ryan canít be there. Think about all the features of VBulletin that have yet to be really tapped into. Think of all the waiting potential that could be granted if someone could access it. We would be willing to take more risks and create new boards for new ideas. And worst case scenario, if an idea doesnít really work out, then we just delete the boards and continue on. We could share the responsibility of driving PE2K to be the best it can be. Heck, we could even create new themes for the forum skin like what PC does, and considering the skills of some graphic designers here, imagine what PE2K would look like if they really got to work with it.

But it canít be allowed to continue like this. So many truly awesome members have left this place while the rest of us remain negative with doubts that we can ever pull ourselves out of this hole. Sure, G-mods can create new threads and sticky and lock them as they please, as well as adding announcements if they wanted to. But that alone canít tap into the potential power of this place, and either Ryan helps us do it, someone does it for him, or we die just waiting and wishing it would happen. And if this place were to die like that, then I can testify that I had not ever in my life seen such a shame and such a potential lost so easily.

But no one can make that choice but Ryan, and we only hope he makes the right one for all our sake and the sake of the entire forumÖ
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2005, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

First off, thank you Neo for chatting with me. Even though it was a heated conversation, it was nice talking with you again. It's funny, but we're very similar in many ways.

As for Ryan, I agree with you. We do need more help and while before I thought that more GMods were enough, I have came to the same conclusion as you have. Simply put, GMods are too limited in power to make a difference when Ryan is absent. The real ideas and development can only happen though the power of an active admin and frankly, Ryan tends to have a stange on and off activity.

But, I think we have to listen to Fair's point. It is intensely hard to make a moderator, much less and admin. I don't know how much of a chance we have to convince Ryan for the need of an admin. The only way I see is a direct chat with him over AIM with all of the GMods and it probably would be good to have the mods as well. As Kenny said, we did have other admins before and perhaps we can have some again. The trick is all about selling the idea and I'm sure you, Neo, know all about that in business.

The forums will always survive as Ryan puts it. And while that may be a valid argument to him, it certainly isn't a good one to us. Without an admin to provide the support needed, the forum will simply degrade until it has lost all its charm that made it special in the first place. Yes, Neo is right, I do feel like we need to compete with Bulbagarden and other pokemon forums because I feel that PE2K is the best forum. We probably are in terms of spirit and order. Yet, the other forums all have something we lack that gives them strength: multiple admins. In almost every area, we are similar, but that is the one thing that we differ in the most.

We always will know that Ryan is the main person in charge, the head honcho. If we create more admins, we're not disputing that and those admins will know that Ryan's decision is law on the forum. Of course, Ryan would want admins who know his rules already so they don't break them. He wants people he can trust. I think that makes Kenny the best candidate simply because he's been with Ryan the longest and Ryan knows him better than any of the other members (plus he likes anime which is a bonus with Ryan). Yes, I know that Tony and D have been here just as long as Kenny, but Kenny is the sole remaining GMod from that generation. The fact that he stayed shows loyalty and I think Ryan appreciates that.

I think that it's best if we look towards the future on the matter. Yes, there are problems on PE2K, there are always problems, but we don't need to dwell on them. I think the immediate path is to start figuring out how to solve these problems. Our goal is to get admin support and there are two ways to do so:
1. Convince Ryan to be more active.
2. Get more admins.

Since Ryan is probably busy already, hence his absense, we can start mapping out goal 2. We'll have to convince Ryan and we need to know how we're going to do it because otherwise we're shooting blind.
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2005, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

It seems that during my irratic off time, many things have happened. Concerning the problems at hand, however, I believe a point was already made that the website should be upgraded before we even think about the forum any longer; why try to think of ways to create admins now?

When Ryan reads this thread, if he does, I'd like to suggest upgrading the interface. Despite the website having little information compared to other sites, the lack of interface on information pages can be seen as a problem, and is likely only so due to the time it would take to update menus on each page of a HTML website, although this could easily be solved using JavaScripts.

If the interface gets upgraded, to make navigation easier, it might be wise to gain help from certain members, to possibly create new sections for the website, or upgrade old sections (e.g. Strategy Section, for example). The website supports the forums, not vice versa. Strengthen the website, you strengthen the forums. The only way to strengthen the website is through information.

I would suggest more, but being away often means I have little knowledge on recent happenings here on the forums concerning the war and members, and the like.
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2005, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

Well one thing to get straight is that we don't have anyone dedicated enough to work on the website anyway. First we need to find those ppl. I'm sure Neo can probably fit this role here. If we can find a number of ppl to help out first, we can hopefully create a sort of "sister site" for pe2k. Certainly with the sister site running and the forum linked to it, Ryan may be forced to reconsider his decisions.

And I just think that if we have something that updates often, like a weekly column (note that if we have 4 ppl doing them, it means that each person does a column once/month or so), we can rake in more hits to hopefully do something about the website that way.

Right now, the strat is to find Ryan and scream at him or something like that.
  #30  
Old 08-11-2005, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Endless Possibilities Discussion

If you all can calm the lynch mob for a moment, I've been talking to Ryan for over an hour now and presenting your problems to him. Expect a reply sooner rather than later and try to keep it together for public appearance at least.
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Last edited by Genesis 1.0; 08-11-2005 at 08:28 AM.
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