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  #76  
Old 02-23-2011, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

The maps also tend to favour protoss a lot too, since it's easier to assemble the deathball. So the maps can be said to be either or.

Then again, the macro-heavy maps are also not exactly zerg favoured completely. Jinro won against Idra pretty convincingly on maps like Crevasse.
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  #77  
Old 02-23-2011, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

It is good for longer games, but macro is more my style anyway. Zerg and Terran is where it is at on these maps! Screw Protoss and their extremely underpowered units.

Strategy for Zerg:
Get your expansion before your spawning pool in maps that large, you will need the extra income and larva, plus, you have enough time to prepare.
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  #78  
Old 02-23-2011, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
It is good for longer games, but macro is more my style anyway. Zerg and Terran is where it is at on these maps! Screw Protoss and their extremely underpowered units.

Strategy for Zerg:
Get your expansion before your spawning pool in maps that large, you will need the extra income and larva, plus, you have enough time to prepare.
How in the world is protoss underpowered?

Protoss can make the deathball and with proper handling of the units. Just because protoss can't just point and click their units at other units doesn't mean they are underpowered. The only underpowered units are the Archon and the Mothership(in 1 v 1 situations)

And really a lot of zerg who go into macro can't use their advantage against them. And as you said before Kenny Idra is very greedy that may have come back to bite him this time around. When I think macro zerg most of the time I think of Machine. Maps like these that let him macro as much as he pleases (if he isn't rushed early) usually lead to his victory.

Anyway anybody up for a game? I'll be on 8:00-11:00 central time if you're interested.

Name: DragonFist
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  #79  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

If you're going to play Zerg, macro macro macro, I have however given up 15-15-15 to play speedling expand, simply because too many 4 gates and 2 rax all ins, on ladder atleast.

Protoss are not underpowered at all, however I do think the recent nerf to HTs was completely unneccicery, I think collosi dammage should go from 15x2 to 10x2 (+5 vs Light).

I love the new GSL maps as a zerg but DESPISEEEEE the new ladder maps, because of how small they generally are.

I think you can all guess who this is.
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  #80  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

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Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
How in the world is protoss underpowered?

Protoss can make the deathball and with proper handling of the units. Just because protoss can't just point and click their units at other units doesn't mean they are underpowered. The only underpowered units are the Archon and the Mothership(in 1 v 1 situations)

And really a lot of zerg who go into macro can't use their advantage against them. And as you said before Kenny Idra is very greedy that may have come back to bite him this time around. When I think macro zerg most of the time I think of Machine. Maps like these that let him macro as much as he pleases (if he isn't rushed early) usually lead to his victory.

Anyway anybody up for a game? I'll be on 8:00-11:00 central time if you're interested.

Name: DragonFist
Protoss is designed for slow builds. If the the Protoss player goes unchecked, he will literally be unstoppable. If you let Zerg mass up, you could beat them would good unit placement. Terrans can easily flank Stalkers and transition from ground to air quickly.

Protoss are too gas heavy, that is what makes them truly underpowered. Because of the gas heavy builds, it takes longer to mass up armies. In the time it takes the average Toss player to pump out a Zealot, I already have 4-6 marines.
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  #81  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Protoss is designed for slow builds. If the the Protoss player goes unchecked, he will literally be unstoppable. If you let Zerg mass up, you could beat them would good unit placement. Terrans can easily flank Stalkers and transition from ground to air quickly.

Protoss are too gas heavy, that is what makes them truly underpowered. Because of the gas heavy builds, it takes longer to mass up armies. In the time it takes the average Toss player to pump out a Zealot, I already have 4-6 marines.
Actually thats completely untrue.
If a protoss goes 13 gate, which is standard, he starts that at the same time you start your rax, if he opts to go cyber core before zealot, then its his own fault if he gets marine rushed.
Protoss arent OP what so ever, they have a perfect balance, because Sentries are an amazing gas dump early game, and they have enough supply to Void ray Collosi off 3 base, which is unstoppable.
Also protoss have the most effective early game rush, the 2 gate. And the most effective mid game rush, the 4 gate.
Also protoss have the safest expansion builds including the forge fast expand and the 3 gate expand.

3 gate expand is so safe and stable its unblievable, because you can just build so many sentries without delaying your expansion timing, its beautiful.


As a zerg I just go speedling expand into lair roaches, then hydra den as I've got around 15 roaches, then I make annoying pushes with the roaches, if he goes collosi, I go corruptors and then win in the early late game. If this fails then brood lords are the natural tech path, and broodlords+corrupts+roach+hydra, do not loose, against a protoss without void rays.

Which is why Idra and Artosis said void collosi is overpowered.
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  #82  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

You obviously have not seen TLO at work before =D
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  #83  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
You obviously have not seen TLO at work before =D
I have, and his protoss is nowhere near the standard of his other races, which with all due respect, has slipped dramatically.
I think my respect for TLO shall be judged how he does at Dallas next month.

Of course I'm still a huge IdrA fan, since his mechanical skill is my play style, but of course I can't play to the same efficiency. To play zerg so mechanically requires a set cycle in your head of:
- inject
- inject
- inject
- creep
- army
- Geysers
- inject
- inject
- inject
(All the way through building an army, scouting, maintaining map control, if you’re against a Terran you are muta harassing all the way through doing this)

Zerg is like that, it's a mechanical set of rules and to play to maximum efficiency you have to get the cycles down. Don't even mentioning trying to do it while fighting, even with the quick injection technique it's still demanding.
Once my APM goes up I'll be able to handle it much better, right now I'm playing at a steady 110.


The multitask is the most demanding part of zerg, which is why I disagree when people claim races are underpowered, especially zerg, just more demanding.
Take for example, it took a guy in diamond, 50 APM to 4 gate me. It took me 105 to fend it off while macroing and building, while he simply kept building and shooting, I don't believe that’s imbalance what so ever, I just believe some things are more demanding than others.
Also before anyone suggest APM doesn't mean anything, it does as long as you aren't spamming, because you need to hand the speed to do everything you need to do, so at 105 I wasn't even doing everything I should do, while he was perfectly fine, since how easy and macro efficient a 4 gate is.
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  #84  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Interestingly enough, Terran is the easiest to macro with because of the ease of going 5aaaa6s7d on cue. Protoss's reverse cycles on WG's still separate good APMers from bad ones, since you need to be at a pylon to do it. Zerg's just too much. Injection + creep spawn ruined all chances for me to hope to play zerg with any efficiency.
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  #85  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Interestingly enough, Terran is the easiest to macro with because of the ease of going 5aaaa6s7d on cue. Protoss's reverse cycles on WG's still separate good APMers from bad ones, since you need to be at a pylon to do it. Zerg's just too much. Injection + creep spawn ruined all chances for me to hope to play zerg with any efficiency.
I must admit when I dabble in the other races in customs I do find them MUCH easier, although I find building pylons/supply depos annoying, but thats probibly because of my zerg habbits.
I feel zerg is something you get used to, once the formentioned cycle of things to do is in your ehad you get preety used to it. I just got my 100th league win as zerg (I trained up in custom games for about 2 months) and I don't miss an injection up until around 20 minuets, then when stuff starts going down i start to miss them, but by that time I've usually got enough lavae and a 200/200 regardless.
Also if early pressure is applied such as....a 2 rax, I may miss 1, which is definatley a flaw of mine.

Also mentioning Protoss, I truely believe that W key should be removed, but then I suppose they'd be harder at low levels. Either that or add a W function for Terran and Zerg, but then people would whine about Zerg now being easy....ahhhh balance balance.

In one final amusing sotry, I went up against a terran who got close spawns and went mass blue flame hellion, fortunatley, as a zerg, i just spent 2 lavae injects on drone sat my natural, replaced everything, got roaches, won.
I felt bad for him, cause he went 2 factory hellion off one base, it should have worked considering i didnt scout it...alas, it didnt.

Oh and a footnote, Im close to diamond I believe, winning about 70% of my matches in plat, so thats happyness.
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  #86  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Pikachu View Post
I must admit when I dabble in the other races in customs I do find them MUCH easier, although I find building pylons/supply depos annoying, but thats probibly because of my zerg habbits.
I feel zerg is something you get used to, once the formentioned cycle of things to do is in your ehad you get preety used to it. I just got my 100th league win as zerg (I trained up in custom games for about 2 months) and I don't miss an injection up until around 20 minuets, then when stuff starts going down i start to miss them, but by that time I've usually got enough lavae and a 200/200 regardless.
Also if early pressure is applied such as....a 2 rax, I may miss 1, which is definatley a flaw of mine.

Also mentioning Protoss, I truely believe that W key should be removed, but then I suppose they'd be harder at low levels. Either that or add a W function for Terran and Zerg, but then people would whine about Zerg now being easy....ahhhh balance balance.

In one final amusing sotry, I went up against a terran who got close spawns and went mass blue flame hellion, fortunatley, as a zerg, i just spent 2 lavae injects on drone sat my natural, replaced everything, got roaches, won.
I felt bad for him, cause he went 2 factory hellion off one base, it should have worked considering i didnt scout it...alas, it didnt.

Oh and a footnote, Im close to diamond I believe, winning about 70% of my matches in plat, so thats happyness.
The W key serves nothing except as a hotkey. It's functionally identical to just hotkeying 5. The only major difference here is that you can only select warpgates, so gates that you forget to change would stand there doing nothing. Honestly it's just a convenient hotkey. Zerg could get W for selecting all hatch. That would work. Terran can never get a W key unless they specify (i.e. only Barracks or something).

Depots and pylons you usually do when you're in a production cycle. Say if I hotkeyed SCV at 3, I would do something like: 4s5aa6s7d33bs to make 1 SCV, 2 marines, 1 tank, 1 medivac, 1 depot. I would in this case still get 1 depot left over.
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  #87  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
The W key serves nothing except as a hotkey. It's functionally identical to just hotkeying 5. The only major difference here is that you can only select warpgates, so gates that you forget to change would stand there doing nothing. Honestly it's just a convenient hotkey. Zerg could get W for selecting all hatch. That would work. Terran can never get a W key unless they specify (i.e. only Barracks or something).

Depots and pylons you usually do when you're in a production cycle. Say if I hotkeyed SCV at 3, I would do something like: 4s5aa6s7d33bs to make 1 SCV, 2 marines, 1 tank, 1 medivac, 1 depot. I would in this case still get 1 depot left over.
Actually I think the W serves as so much more, because it is preety much saying:
"YOUR WARP GATES ARE READY, BUILD UNITS!"

Which I think its a little unfair, surely something of such power should be in all races hands, such as.
"YOUR MULE IS READY"
"HATCHERY 1: Injecting"
"Hatchery 2: Nothing"
"HATCHERY 3: Injecting"

It sounds almost silly but I think just the interface showing you so much is slightly overpowered at lower levels.

In other news I have a tournament comming up soon and I'm feeling preety confident overall, In all honesty it would make me most happy just to get further than my teammate, although I wouldnt mind the 100 Euro and the sexy headphones.

I'll report in on how I do.
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  #88  
Old 03-05-2011, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

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Originally Posted by Lightning Pikachu View Post
Actually I think the W serves as so much more, because it is preety much saying:
"YOUR WARP GATES ARE READY, BUILD UNITS!"

Which I think its a little unfair, surely something of such power should be in all races hands, such as.
"YOUR MULE IS READY"
"HATCHERY 1: Injecting"
"Hatchery 2: Nothing"
"HATCHERY 3: Injecting"

It sounds almost silly but I think just the interface showing you so much is slightly overpowered at lower levels.
As I said, it's no different from having a hotkey for the other stuff. There's no advantage of the W hotkey outside of the first production cycle. Seriously, warp gates finishing cooldown doesn't go "your warp gates are ready". The protoss player has to actively press w all the time to check on their production cycle.

The only reason why warp gates are stronger at lower levels is because units show up 5 seconds after you summon them. When both players have terrible macro, just having an infusion of 5 units instantly compared to the other guy who couldn't do it makes a big difference. That is, the reason why protoss is stronger in lower levels is only specifically due to the reversal of the production cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Pikachu View Post
In other news I have a tournament comming up soon and I'm feeling preety confident overall, In all honesty it would make me most happy just to get further than my teammate, although I wouldnt mind the 100 Euro and the sexy headphones.

I'll report in on how I do.
gl on that.
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  #89  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Speaking of tournaments, I won against my school in a gaming fest we had in the gym (ironic). I won a cool-looking mouse, fifty euro, and a USB of Starcraft I: Broodwar... Ugh... another copy.

- Long live Negima!
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  #90  
Old 03-06-2011, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: [SC2] Dominion of Psionic Swarms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
As I said, it's no different from having a hotkey for the other stuff. There's no advantage of the W hotkey outside of the first production cycle. Seriously, warp gates finishing cooldown doesn't go "your warp gates are ready". The protoss player has to actively press w all the time to check on their production cycle.

The only reason why warp gates are stronger at lower levels is because units show up 5 seconds after you summon them. When both players have terrible macro, just having an infusion of 5 units instantly compared to the other guy who couldn't do it makes a big difference. That is, the reason why protoss is stronger in lower levels is only specifically due to the reversal of the production cycle.



gl on that.
You don't need to check your gates through because the interface tells you how many warp gates are ready, so the second to cooldown is done, the W interface goes from 0 to 1, which I think is unfair. I think you should have a hotkey for your warp gates, but not one that automatically shows you hwo many are ready.
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