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  #31  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by xXrealgoon420xX View Post
the majority of government supporters fail to realize that Wikileaks and similar organizations are the last

bastions of journalistic integrity against regimes that have effectively become police states
take a look at America: you only have first amendment rights if you follow what the majority dictates

look at England: you guys have a CCTV on every corner of the street and are preparing to criminalize hardcore pornography

and poor Sweden is so entrenched in political correctness that they are allowing Islam to essentially dominate their public and private spheres

wikileaks is a positive organization for the benefit of humanity because they take the level of information sharing to the next level, without any biases for country or political organization: with few small changes to protect those involved, they release their information as is

a common argument is: "But shouldn't there be some safeguards in governments? A civilian shouldn't know everything!"

i agree, but those cases are few and far between. it isn't a matter of national security to let us know that the war on terror is an incredible failure, and it isn't a matter of national security to allow conversations between diplomats be open to the public. its a matter of corporate and government sponsored interests, and the elite persuade you to join their cause because they have something to lose

wouldn't the world be much better if the politician was the one who feared his representatives, not the other way around? wouldn't things be better if governmental transactions and discussions were so open that countries couldn't war with each other, because the information would be known months beforehand? it would certainly be a safer world to live in
A citizen should not have to know anything other than what impacts their daily life. If a horrible sickness is released by accident from some government-run test facility that kills people within a day or two, by all means tell them that it was an accident and they are trying to clear it up. But, why in the name of God, should they know specifically why it was being developed? It does not affect what happened or the problem at hand. (Hypothetically)

As I said before, the fact that Wikileaks released classified documents just to inform the people, presents no good defense whatsoever. Until declassified, do not upload the documents, it is as simple as that. What would the government of Germany do if America stole their classified documents and posted all of them up for the world to see, yeah, not received well by the Germans, or the world for that matter is it?
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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But just what did the leaks accomplish? Were they simply released to piss people off? I mean, from what I have heard, pretty much the only outcome was harm to American/European relations? Neh?
No, they let people know what was really going on, which pissed them and some other groups of people off.

If it actually strains US/EU relations to have information released, then all the more it should because that means something is definitely wrong there.
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  #33  
Old 12-28-2010, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
No, they let people know what was really going on, which pissed them and some other groups of people off.

If it actually strains US/EU relations to have information released, then all the more it should because that means something is definitely wrong there.
As I said before, every government has something to piss off every other country, the U.S is just targeted because they are the second biggest superpower on Earth.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
A citizen should not have to know anything other than what impacts their daily life. If a horrible sickness is released by accident from some government-run test facility that kills people within a day or two, by all means tell them that it was an accident and they are trying to clear it up. But, why in the name of God, should they know specifically why it was being developed? It does not affect what happened or the problem at hand. (Hypothetically)

As I said before, the fact that Wikileaks released classified documents just to inform the people, presents no good defense whatsoever. Until declassified, do not upload the documents, it is as simple as that. What would the government of Germany do if America stole their classified documents and posted all of them up for the world to see, yeah, not received well by the Germans, or the world for that matter is it?
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson. Not that I am a big fan of governments whatsoever, but dude's got a point.

The government should never, ever have anything to hide from the public - when it does, the system is flawed. In a government-controlled political system, the government is supposed to be the voice of the people, executing the will of the masses. Nowadays, it's more of a voice TO the people, telling the masses what they should do, adding a "oh btw, we fixed one of those things we said we would when you gave us your power! Be happy!". And no, I wasn't talking about the US now, I thought more of my own home government. It happens all throughout the entire world, every place sporting parliamentarism.

You might not want to know more than what impacts your daily life, but that doesn't mean you should be kept from ever knowing if you wanted to. I kinda get the argument generally used in public, about "goverments needing to have confidential corresponce with its diplomats", as it is kinda necessary in the competitionbased system we use today, but if that was all Wikileaks leaked, Wikileaks wouldn't make it anywhere but in tabloid news.

I think Wikileaks is the greatest thing that have happened in a long, long time. Too bad sensationalism media does it best breaking down the importance of it.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2011, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

That's assuming that the "people" know what's best for their country. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that at least half the United States must be wrong about what's best for the country, since only half of us can be right. Democracy as mob rule is barely better than no rule. Jefferson had an idealistic vision of a country where the government existed in name only and everyone could manage their own, individual affairs. That's a pipe dream, although Jefferson is famous for his vast capability for self-denial. Any realistic, functioning government will have to hide things from its people, if only to hide things from other countries. The US military doesn't want to give away the specifications for its latest weapon systems to other countries, so they must be kept secret, from the US public as well as the governments of other nations. A government that can't hide things is a government that can't function.

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No, they let people know what was really going on, which pissed them and some other groups of people off.

If it actually strains US/EU relations to have information released, then all the more it should because that means something is definitely wrong there.
Are you implying that you have never said anything about someone behind their back and you wouldn't want them to hear? Such things are basic parts of human interaction, and it's no different with governments. I'm sure EU nations get together to snicker at the US as well, but it doesn't help anyone to put the snickering on the web.
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2011, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

Why were there documents making fun of the EU in official documents of the US? This shows that the government isn't doing their job right.

Yes, there are things government must hide such as military plans and important strategic documents. God forbid the terrorists get the blueprints for the Pentagon and figure out the vulnerabilities. But there are things that the government also should not have the right to hide such as mistreatment of prisoners-of-war and bribery.

Democracy doesn't have to be mob rule to be right, but at the very least, the people must be able to call for referendums, and not the government only.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

As Lus said, it is not just the US who make fun of people. And if it is classified, they had a reason. After the whole Watergate thing, they are very careful about what they do.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

You people neglect that most of us here live in states where we elect the government.
We own the government, they don't own us.
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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You people neglect that most of us here live in states where we elect the government.
We own the government, they don't own us.
I think you fail to realize just how much the government is in control of most things.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2011, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
As it stands, it is a crime (at least in the US) for Wikileaks to do what they are doing, regardless of whether or not the US citizens should know. I find this interesting, since it's like there isn't a legal method for things like this to surface in a normal and natural manner. If that is the case, then should the government be hiding all of these secrets?
Wikileaks is not committing a crime. If anyone committed a crime it was the person that stole the information. Wikileaks is a news source as much as the Wall Street Journal and NBC. When a news organization (here Wikileaks) obtains information that is newsworthy --doesn't matter if it was stolen-- it can be published as long as the news organization had nothing to do with the theft.

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  #41  
Old 01-17-2011, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
Wikileaks is not committing a crime. If anyone committed a crime it was the person that stole the information. Wikileaks is a news source as much as the Wall Street Journal and NBC. When a news organization (here Wikileaks) obtains information that is newsworthy --doesn't matter if it was stolen-- it can be published as long as the news organization had nothing to do with the theft.

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But the news organization has something to do with the theft. Besides distributing stolen classified information can be considered espionage, a crime.
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  #42  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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But the news organization has something to do with the theft.
And what would that be?
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Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
Besides distributing stolen classified information can be considered espionage, a crime.
It can be but it doesn't mean it is.
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  #43  
Old 01-18-2011, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
And what would that be?

It can be but it doesn't mean it is.
If you distribute stolen information you are in as much fault as the thief who has stolen it. Its the same as driving a stolen vehicle, you still go to jaileven if you didn't steal it. The reason why Wikileaks is under fire right now is because they can receive charges of espionage and threatening the security of several countries because it is distributing that information and even grabbing some of that information themselves.

If stealing classified information and distributing it out to the public isn't espionage what else could it possibly be? You could argue that its journalism but then again thats like saying they stole information just so that the world can know about it. Ultimately the information was classified and stored in a secure location. Someone(Wikileaks itself or a source for the site) broke in that secure location either digitally or physically and stole the information and then gave it to a distributor(Wikileaks) or kept it for themselves to distribute. The fact that they stole the data makes it a crime.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-2011, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

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Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
Someone(Wikileaks itself or a source for the site) broke in that secure location either digitally or physically and stole the information and then gave it to a distributor(Wikileaks) or kept it for themselves to distribute. The fact that they stole the data makes it a crime.
And that's why this guy 'is being held in "maximum custody"'.
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  #45  
Old 01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Wikileaks

And this is what they are:

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On Sunday 28th Novembre 2010, Wikileaks began publishing 251,287 leaked United States embassy cables, the largest set of confidential documents ever to be released into the public domain. The documents will give people around the world an unprecedented insight into the US Government’s foreign activities.




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