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Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


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  #1  
Old 07-04-2004, 06:46 PM
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Default WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Okay this is only for those particapting in the WAR, for more information on joining the war, see ‘Mixed Groups/Clubs’ thankyou.

Any number of members from any team may particapte in this.

THE RULES

1. You must present a point or view to be considered a part of each week's debate

2. Points will be awarded on how good your arguement in the subject is.{Two points are avaliable}

3. So that people can read your posts, proper grammer should be used to get correct responses.

4. Remember sometimes quality overweighs quanity, if someone is 'waffling' I will know.

5. State which team you are on before posting an arguement.

6. Stay on topic and not going onto other related ones.

5. Enjoy yourself!

RESULTS

WEEK 1~Aliens, Real or Fake?

First Place- Jack, Team Elite
Second Place- Seven, Team Nox

WEEK 2~Does God Exist?

First Place- Mana, Team Nox
Second Place- Kenny, TMA

WEEK 3~Abortion, Right or Wrong?

First Place- Phoenix, Team Tri-Blade
Second Place- Mana, Team Nox

WEEK 4~How succesful has George Bush's reign on the campaign been?

First Place- Jack, Team Elite
Second Place- Mana, Team Nox

WEEK 5~ Euthanasia, right or wrong?

First Place- Phoenix, Team Tri-Blade
Second Place- Kenny, TMA

WEEK 6~ -

First Place- -
Second Place- -
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2004, 10:57 PM
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Default Week 1- Aliens

Week 1

Topic: Aliens.

-Do they exist? Real or fake?
-If they do, are they peace-makers or invaders?
-If not, why have so many people claimed sightings?

{Yes I know this has already been discussed in normal debate but I feel that it should be brought up first as a starter for the war since it’s a ‘Fun’ topic}

Suggested points of discussion:

-Crop circles
-‘Lights’
-Hypnotism recalls
-First encounters
-Abduction
-‘Flying saucers’

And many more!
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2004, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Well, since this will be the first post, I'll make it short and just ignite the debate.

In my humble opinion, it is unreasonable to think in a universe of an unimaginable size, that the Earth would be the only planet that harbours forms of life. Logically speaking, of course there would be other planets out there that has life in them, although how developed the lifeforms are is another question. Even if it's just a bug or a fern, it's still life.

Alien wise, we can define it using a dictionary:
Source: www.dictionary.com

Quote:
a·li·en ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l-n, lyn)
adj.
Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange. See Synonyms at foreign.
Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed, as in nature: emotions alien to her temperament.

n.
An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.
A person from another and very different family, people, or place.
A person who is not included in a group; an outsider.
A creature from outer space: science fiction about an invasion of aliens.
Ecology. An organism, especially a plant or animal, that occurs in or is naturalized in a region to which it is not native.
So obviously, since the actual topic is Aliens, I might be going offtrack, but bear with me here.

Going by the logic that we probably are not alone in this universe, then we can also draw a timeline. Humans, after all, are relatively new to the universe. (http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/geo_timeline.html - Monkeys approx. 50 million years ago, Homo Erectus approx 1.6mill years ago). In the scheme of things, we got to where we are, if we want to call it advanced, relatively quickly. No one knows when the Universe was created, but it definately was from a time far far more ancient than just a few million years ago.

Therefore, we can use more logic, and say "Well, if we evolved in only a few million years or so, why can't the other lifeforms?"

That, my friends, is exactly the reasoning that we can use to deduce that Aliens have a very high % chance of existing, and if they do, many of them are probably just as, if not more advanced than we are.

Nope, Star Trek isn't just science fiction anymore.
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  #4  
Old 07-05-2004, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Aliens... How to define an alien? (besides Mlugia's definition)
It can be from an advanced life-form creature (like the ones in the movies) OR just an ameba. There is theory that there used to be life in other planets, like Mars or Jupiter's Moon.

Yet again, I know for sure that if there are REAL aliens, they come with peace.
Why?
If they have the enough tecnology to FLY to this plannet, earth, they should have even more advanced weaponery. If they would want to destroy/own earth, they could have done it now.

If humankind has taking around.......2000 years to be like it is today, (since Jesus days, check how much we evolved in tec.)
Why other races won't take around 100000 years to evolve?
They can't have the same age as us.....they are really probably around a million older than us.

From a religious point:
If god is so kind to create us...why wouldn't he create anothe species? Alien things are already mentioned in the bible, altough not very explicit.
Marth.
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2004, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Here we go. I believe in aliens, my first reason for believing in aliens are the Egyptian pyramids. How are they so smooth? I think that aliens have landed in Egypt and has helped the Egyptians build their pyramids. Sice how could the pyramids get so smooth? Also the pyramids are aliened with the stars. I think it would eb quite hard for egyptians to do this. My second reason is Stonehenge. I believe that Stonhenge was created to help aliens travel from place to place. Or it could be a place where the aliens have landed and bult Stonhenge for like a temporary home while they explored Earth. Scientist have yet not explained these two ideas. These are just some of my reasons in believing in aliens. So I end my speech with "We are not alone."

Last edited by VenusaurTrainer; 07-05-2004 at 09:48 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2004, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Aliens usually are defined as an extra-terrestial lifeform. According to this definition, and according to the original theory of the "comet", we are the extra-terrestial lifeforms. Even without the theory of the "comet", meaning that you assume we are created via creation of amino acids and lightning storms, etc., it would still be possible that similar thigns would happen within this universe.

As evolution is strange, there may be races exactly like us (according to the comet theory), or others only remotely similar to us (via other types of evolution). There are just too many variables not to believe that extra-terrestial life does not exist (i.e. it's easy to believe it exists).

As many others said, we had billions of years to evolve from archaebacteria to us humans, so the possibility that other archaebacteria in other planets would evolve in much the same way. From the geographical differences and climatical differenes between the planets, there might be differences in our "ending" forms. It's only logical.
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:25 PM
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Exclamation Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Alien-us, Latin for: Strange, hostile, without a goal, from somebody ells, uncooperative.
Alien-um, Latin for: Belongings from other people, strange soil, things that do not matter.
Those are the meanings from the world Alien in the old Latin. But of course, the meaning from those words did not come from the Aliens we ‘know’. No, it’s exactly the opposite. We gave these beings from other places the name Alien from the language Latin. And we gave it this name because we think that this fits with it. These words describe the thing that we are discussing now and that many fear. Much believe they are hostile, strange, uncooperative and many more. So why would we otherwise give it this name?
And again, about the translations, notice the meaning: Things that do not matter…
Stuff that must not get attention… That brings us to the idea many of us think. That the government has already discovered these ‘alien life form’ with their strange flying saucers. But they are keeping it from the crowd, the public, the humans. Because if they would exist, we should not ever know. For if it would leak and some knew and had evidence, they could then prove it to the world, and the result would be catastrophically.
So they could exist… Well, of course aliens exist, but not the ones we think(most probably). There are aliens in the form of microscopically elements. But then we could call everything an alien. And if you would mean that aliens exist, in the form that we see them from Star Trek, Roswell, ancient storeys and such… Then I would have to reply with: ‘Will we ever know…’

-Ruben V.
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  #8  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

I shall use a religious stand point.
The source, a great eon old book, known to us as the Bible. The bible was writen by people of God. How did they know what to write, God told them. These people had a connection with god. The Old Testament. God commanded a follower of him to write The Book of Genisis to explain his holy, and awesome power. This person was told by God, what was created one the first 7 days of creation. Look up and down, in hidden text, and whatever, but you will not find on {insert a day} Aliens where created on the other planets God made.

Now turning to a historian point of veiw.
an Alien, of different place, different aliegance. So in a historian point of veiw, Ghandi was an alien to the U.S.A for point of veiw, and religion. This means your own best friend could be an alien for different religion. To an Amish historian, Americans could be aliens, and what not.

Conclusion: Aliens, if you are speaking of extraterrestrials, No, none exiestance. All signs of alien's could be made by an artist. If you are looking at this the way a historian, Yes, Rueben could be an alien, to me for not living in the U.S.A and not knowing english as a his first language, and vice versa.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2004, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Unfortunately, if we're talking about a religious standpoint, we can deduce the following:

God, who has created the universe, is not a human. Taking it further, by defining Alien as a creature not from Earth, we can deduce that God, since he/she/it is not a currently known species that reside on Earth, must be someone/thing that is not from this Earth, and is therefore an Alien. Therefore, going bilical, we can also argue that Aliens exist.

As well, I believe this debate's Alien, from the suggestion of topics to investigate, refers to Aliens in the Extraterrestral way, not an illegal resident.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2004, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Don't even talk about illegal aliens, you know what this debate is about. Aliens from other planets, stick to the topic or stop wasting debate time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenusaurTrainer
Egyptian pyramids. How are they so smooth? I think that aliens have landed in Egypt and has helped the Egyptians build their pyramids. Sice how could the pyramids get so smooth?
Are you serious? When sand rubs against a surface it wears the surface away, it's called erosion. They Pyramids were built in a DESERT, sand storms rage all the time and given that it's been a few hundred years, duh the stones are going to be smooth. And don't even say the aliens helped them, the pharohs had thousands of slaves build those Pyramids. As for the star allignment, people were not stupid back then. The stars and the rotation of the sun is what they went by for travel and because their belief in gods, they pray to the sky and built the Pyramids the way they are to honor them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenusaurTrainer
My second reason is Stonehenge. I believe that Stonhenge was created to help aliens travel from place to place. Or it could be a place where the aliens have landed and bult Stonhenge for like a temporary home while they explored Earth.
Again, you are wrong. Do you know why people believe this myth though? Because it's people like you and others who don't know what the scientists know. Stonehenge is not alien technology, they are STONES. They were positioned as a large time keeper, a sundial. There has been no hard evidence to suggest alien activity near the stones. The only reason people think it's the aliens that built them, well, look at the stones. How do you think they lifted them?-- each one weighing tons. It's because we are too advanced now that we can't think of the simplest way to lift a heavy rock.

Instead of quoting the rest of you individually, I'll prove you all wrong right here.

All planets do not have the possibility for life, and by life I mean a system of creatures coexisting on a planet. Mars has frozen water, just like Earth, and microscopic life forms, but there is no life there and there never was. It's too cold of an environment for larger life to live there. Venus has dust clouds hovering above the ground, just like Earth, but the environment is acidic, with acid rain in those clouds, which means it does have some amount of water. But it's too hot and we don't know about the atmosphere but it's most likely toxic. Mars is too far from the sun while Venus is too close to the sun, both producing planets that can't sustain life on their own willpower. However, Earth is in the perfect distance and what do you know, life forms and prospers. Earth is the correct distance from our sun in order to sustain life on it's own. There is a certain orbital distance around any sun which a planet must be within to have life. That orbital distance is very slender compared to how much distance there is between planets. Also, the planet size must be exact to Earth, which is why Mars is thought to hold life, because it is the same size. But Mars is outside the orbit distance from the sun and can't hold life.
Now let's look at other solar systems and the planets within them. To date, most planets discovered in other solar systems have been gas giants, much like Jupiter. The scientists have also found smaller planets, much like the size of Earth. However, none of these planets are within that orbital distance from that particular solar system's sun.
So, to even have the chance of a planet with Earth's size and orbital distance from the sun, there is a 1% chance for life to start there. And what is the number of planets that fit that description so far---- 0.
Ok, so maybe there is another planet out there that has life, we just haven't found it yet. Do you know the percentage that evolved life will form much like Earth? I don't mean just humans, but creatures too. You would have to have the same exact "Primordial Soup" form, and even for Earth we were lucky to get that. The chance of the same spark as Earth received is less than a 1% chance. Plus that planet would have to worry about if their sun is going to blow up, or turn to a black hole, or other space problems like asteroids.
The overall percentage that life will form and match or surpass our own is a .01% chance.

Bottom line, science proves the existence of aliens to be, in all likelihood, false. Just be glad I didn't go over the religious thoughts for now.

~Jack~
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2004, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Ah, but what you have given to us is that there IS a chance of a planet out there that can have life, and even planets as advanced as ours.

Let's take an example. In Canada there's the Lotto 6/49, you choose 6 numbers out of 49 numbers, and if you get it all you get the few million in prizes. The chance of winning that isn't very high. It's 1/13,983,816, or 0.000000007151123842...%. However, even in the short time that it has been created (I should think this lottery wasn't around in the 1800s), people have won the jackpot, and more than once. And if the chance is that slim, yet people have done it before, how is it fair to say that with a chance as great as 0.01% chance, and billions and trillions of years to experiment, that alien lifeforms could not have been created?
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

well done Jack, you have spoken your two cents (which is actually over 20 dollars right now ) Its my turn.

Jack has left the most important thing and the most important side of this case. A side that mustn't be missed, skipped or unspoken. A side jack dropped and didn't want to talk about (Thank you Jack for leaving this for me). What I am talking about here is the religious thoughts. And here are my two cents people ^^

When god created universe he has spoken that we are the only, no one can say "NO" to a fact like this one. He created Adam from dust, and a holy spirit from his breath (I don;t know if i am explaining right because I took all thi in arabic, and yes there are Christian Arabs). And in my own opinion I wouldn't think god roamed all the universe picking planets and creating other races using dust or something. Humans are god's chosen people, and we must respect that not to say that other races in outer space is there, looking at us and will send a lazer beam to destroy planet Earth. Stop the silliness and listen to the bible, read it and all your questions will be answered, all your mysteries will be revealed for you...

And thats my children is my two cents ^^

~Tamer
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

I agree in a few points, and disagree in others. For one, no, i do not believe other forms of life have ever came into contact with our planet, yet i do believe that they exist. As many know, all life forms began in the sea, as microscopic-organisms, much like those found on Mars. If we think back to when the Solar System was created, the Earth was nothing but a large rock. Over the billions of years, as the Sun grew and the distance between it and the Earth decreased (As Lep said, distance affects the environment of the planet), the Earths environment began to change, and water formed. After this, micro-organisms appeared (They could have been around before though), and since then, as the environment has changed, the organisms have evolved; something that has happened over millions of years.

As the Sun continues to expand, it also closes the distance between itself and Mars (I believe the distance needed for a stable environment is much larger than you might think). Mars actually has water, and micro-organisms (Which in a way, is another form of life), so all it now needs is time. Unfortunately, the Solar System may not last long enough for them to evolve as far as we have, yet they will to a certain extent.

Then, we have to think about chances, like Mana mentioned. If the chance of life like us is 0.01%, then that would mean every 1 in 10,000 planets is like our own - With billions of Solar Systems, that would mean thousands of planets are now supporting some form of life at this time, even if it is just Micro-Organisms. This cant be true. The chances are way less, but still, there are many in the Universe. Nobody can tell whether they are more, or less, advanced than us, and i highly doubt they know of any life either. The universe is a vast place, and although i believe there are planets like ours out there, i doubt that one will be found anytime before our Solar System is gone.
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Yes, Dark Absol brings up a good point. The topic is whether or not Aliens do exist, not whether or not we will be able to find them, and while the two topics are linked, they aren't the same thing.

Anyways, to Tamer:
If you look at a previous point I have made, it's a given that God doesn't live on Earth, and if we define Aliens as beings from outside Earth, which is the most common definition, we can also classify God as an alien him/her/itself, can we not? Since God created the Earth, we can assume God was never born on Earth, and therefore God must be an alien.
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: WAR SEASON III - Debate Section

Yes, my percentages are wrong, sue me. I did that all from my head. The point is the percentage is very, very miniscule. Plus my math was off up there,

Here are some corrections:
Only about 1% of the solar systems have life possible and only those solar systems with the planet in the what is called the "Habit Zone" have a 1% chance to support life. Using the Drake Equation, there are supposedly 1000 planets in our Milky Way Galaxy that can hold life. Researches and astronomers define life from bacteria to full grown civilization so this doesn't help define alien life. But they also predict the possibilites of a civilization on each habitable planet to be 1% chance and to further that along, they give it a 1% chance at being successful. They also give the civilization a 10% chance of communication with each other just on that planet. so not every planet with habital forces will communicate.
So to have a planet in the right position and the right time and temperature and a perfect habital community... it takes a .000000001% chance for it to happen. The percent is small, that's what matters.

Yes, that does mean there is a chance of life much like Earth out there. For now, let's say there is 1 planet for example purpose. So maybe 1 alien planet exists, even though the chances of it happening are not at all likely. Let's move the debate on to visiting our planet and why.

Now, if that planet is high skilled enough then why are they coming to our planet, to watch us? It's certainly not to take us over because if they are really advanced, they would only need to go to a neighboring planet, like Mars for us, and take it over with technology. Have you read the series Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars. It's all about how we travel from Earth to Mars and make it our own. I've read the first two and will be on the third soon and even we, at the stage that book was written, have the possibility to make Mars a second Earth. Which is easier for an alien race, dominating a planet super millions of light years away or traveling a smaller distance to a next door planet?
Also, wouldn't they send satellites out before they send UFO's to spy on us? Plus we have our own satellites and telescopes to watch the sky, you think we aren't going to see a foreign object in the sky? Do give me anything about invisible technology, that's not possible to the naked eye. NOT POSSIBLE. Right now we, Earth, have sent a satellite ouside our solar system to examine other solar systems and their planets. Time and money are spent to that, it would be the same for an alien race. They don't have the time and money to constantly look at our planet. We ourselves don't even have it. If an alien race is like us, they are not peaceful within the planet. Thus, just like Earth, people are interested in themselves and not in another planet far, far away. Frankly, the general public are interested but they don't really care to explore space.
You hear tales of people being abducted... in Central USA. Do you ever hear people from major cities being taken, no! People abducted are either crazy or... crazy. And as the X-Files suggested, it's the government creating super humans.

And let me briefly say this before I go on a rampage: those who trust their answers from a book written hundreds of years ago are sorely mistaken. People only believed in gods because they didn't understand how things work. Science solves these questions and gods were not needed. Only in third world contries does a God exist. Why? Because they don't have science to explain to them they are wrong. It's simple, there are NO heavenly beings.

~Jack~
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