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  #1  
Old 08-02-2004, 12:48 AM
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Default Wrong or Preference?

Murder is wrong.

To non-Christians, is this an ethical absolute or just my preference?

(keep in mind that this is a religious arguement)
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Last edited by Deoxys0003; 08-02-2004 at 03:31 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2004, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Even though I am Christian, lets ignore that for now.

Murder is wrong, although sometimes it is nessisary.

Wrong:
  • You end a living, breathing, thinking thinking things life prematurely.
  • There are times where murder is not unetical:
  • War. In war, you kill other people directly or indirectly, but it is not in cold blood. You kill for your country, and the millions in it.
  • Say someone threatens your life, and is attacking you or a loved one. This is a time where murder is most definatly not wrong. Self defense, is murder, but not unetical murder.


And from a religous point of view, Killing is forrbidden by one of the 10 Commandments.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

I think all intentional murders are wrong. Protection of your life, land, and family is ok, but (*prepare yourself for cheesey cliche*) I really don't think killing is the answer to anything. There are other forms of protection, and if no one killed then no one would need to kill in defense.
But murdering is wrong.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2004, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno
I think all intentional murders are wrong. Protection of your life, land, and family is ok, but (*prepare yourself for cheesey cliche*) I really don't think killing is the answer to anything. There are other forms of protection, and if no one killed then no one would need to kill in defense.
But murdering is wrong.
ok, prove to me why it is wrong.
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2004, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno
I think all intentional murders are wrong. Protection of your life, land, and family is ok, but (*prepare yourself for cheesey cliche*) I really don't think killing is the answer to anything. There are other forms of protection, and if no one killed then no one would need to kill in defense.
But murdering is wrong.
What about stem cell research then? Bush argues that it's murder. Does it breath, think, and live if it's smaller than one-sixth the diameter of a human hair? Is that life too?
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2004, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

actually I think it's all... it just is. I mean sooner or later you die anyway, so it doesn't really matter. You will die... it's inevitable. Seeing as I don't believe in god or anything. There's nothing after death. so everyone just... dies. that's it... I mean sooner or later you're going to die, so it doesn't matter when. Although I would like to enjoy it for a while. I mean think of all the babies who died of premature births. They didn't get to see the world. They were deprived of so much. You're lucky to be here now.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2004, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

I feel like we should allow things to live out their full life naturally. If things die of natural causes, then we can also take advantage of the resources, such as stem cells. Now if you're talking abortion or "killing something prematurely"... I would never want anyone to have an abortion, letting a child live is such a better solution, in my opinion. With that said, I am also pro-choice. I believe people are capable of making their own decisions on whether or not they can birth a baby. In my eyes, allowing someone to adopt your child is a great solution. Some people think the emotional attachment would be too hard... but that is not the topic. Stem cell research is very beneficial to people. I see embryoes and fetuses as life, anything with the potential to grow and live is life to me, so ending the chances of survival of any potential life is wrong to me.
I feel that murdering is wrong because it ends life too sudden. We could make many more advances in the world if everyone was given the opportunity to live out their bodies "supplied energy". I say it that way so not to strike up a debate over God or other topics that make people hostile/close-minded. Me making that statement of "living out the supplied energy" also strikes up another debate, but I won't supply that debate yet. I'll wait and see if anyone else notices it and asks.
But I cannot prove to anyone whether something is wrong or not, that's your choice to beleive what you want to believe. The statements I make are my own speculations. I am not trying to prove anything, I am merely shedding light of a subject from one point of view.
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2004, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

This debate is quite interesting and I want to post my remarks on some things.

Quote:
Say someone threatens your life, and is attacking you or a loved one. This is a time where murder is most definatly not wrong. Self defense, is murder, but not unetical murder.
Imagine, killing out of revenge was right. If someone killed your loved one, and you killed him, wouldn't someone who saw HIM as a loved one kill YOU? Who is right and who is wrong there? If killing out of revenge was right, millions of lives would end every day!


Quote:
War. In war, you kill other people directly or indirectly, but it is not in cold blood. You kill for your country, and the millions in it.
There is more to that. The person you kill isn't a nobody. He probably has a family, a girlfriend, wife, and even children! Say you were on a battefield, and someone oppisiate of you shot you to death. Would THAT be right? Not to you no, but to them, they did not WANT to kill you. They only did it just because they HAD to for their own protection or by orders. It would be just the same if you killed the person on front of you. Killing is not RIGHT there at all. People end up realizing that they weren't really killing for their country, they were killing for only THEIR own or a collegue's survival. Before the battle they enter it thinking it is right, but after experiences they will come to the fact the killing and ending another life was WRONG, but he did it only because he had to in order to survive. No matter how evil they are, they are still humans, and they have famlies, friends, and dreams.

Quote:
ok, prove to me why it is wrong.
Killing is NEVER right, although people kill in order for their own and others' protection, it is still wrong. At first people will come to think that it is right and killing is for a good cause, but in the end, they will reflect upon their actions and regret on ending another life. Another person just like him, but thinking differently. Then the murderer will suffer something more painful than death. They will feel a type of regret and pity that is undescribable. They will have nightmares of the screams they have caused killing another person. All this pain is enough for a person to pull the trigger upon themself.


The last few posts about steam cell research should be presented as another debate, and I have no comments about that for now.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2004, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Imagine, killing out of revenge was right. If someone killed your loved one, and you killed him, wouldn't someone who saw HIM as a loved one kill YOU? Who is right and who is wrong there? If killing out of revenge was right, millions of lives would end every day!
He is not tlkaing about revenge.... -_-;

He is talking about self-defense. Say if you were cornered in a dark alley by a dangerous killer? What are you going to do...? Fight back of course (usually...) If you have to kill him to protect your own existence... then that is not wrong... it may be unethical, but it is the only hting you can do...

Murder IS wrong, however, it may be the only thing you can do in extreme situations... so yeah...
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
He is not tlkaing about revenge.... -_-;

He is talking about self-defense. Say if you were cornered in a dark alley by a dangerous killer? What are you going to do...? Fight back of course (usually...) If you have to kill him to protect your own existence... then that is not wrong... it may be unethical, but it is the only hting you can do...

Murder IS wrong, however, it may be the only thing you can do in extreme situations... so yeah...
Okay so if he wasn't talking about revenge I still pointed out that although people kill to defend themself it is still wrong. As I said you'll come to regret killing a person even if it was to defend your own life. I mean there is still a possibility to evade. There are MANY things to do before resorting to killing. Unfortunatly, people think to fast and resort to killing even if they had the option to evade. No matter why you killed a person, you will eventually come to reget. If soldiers feel that pain worse normal people...
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2004, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke
Okay so if he wasn't talking about revenge I still pointed out that although people kill to defend themself it is still wrong. As I said you'll come to regret killing a person even if it was to defend your own life. I mean there is still a possibility to evade. There are MANY things to do before resorting to killing. Unfortunatly, people think to fast and resort to killing even if they had the option to evade. No matter why you killed a person, you will eventually come to reget. If soldiers feel that pain worse normal people...
Heh to quote a line from the movie, 'Enough:' 'Self-Defense is NOT murder.'

Killing in pure revenge IS wrong, but like I said, if it somes to protecting your own existence AT that particular time, I don't think it is wrong. Revenge is a cruel thing and killing in pure rage and hate is wrong.
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

I agree with Duke (just had to throw that out there.)

It seems like one of the main reasons to kill is self protection. You "kill them before they kill you". That's the philosophy in war, in the "being cornered by a stranger" incident, when people come into your home threatening you... all of these events basically condone murder because it is for self defense. Well, if no one intentionally killed anybody(if no one set out to kill), then no one would need to kill out of self defense. If you end the threat then you end the need of defense. So if people do not threaten others' lives then killing for protection would not be needed. Does that make sense?
Killing out of revenge would just create a neverending cycle of deaths. That's already been pointed out.
The statement that: "in war, the person you kill isn't a nobody." Is such a strong one. That person had a life and he/she could have progressed the world phenominally. He might have derived a cure for AIDS in his head, but now since he is dead then we'll never know. That example was a little extreme, but you know what I mean.
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
Heh to quote a line from the movie, 'Enough:' 'Self-Defense is NOT murder.'
It is still a murder. No matter how FAST you killed him or how free-of-pain it was you still ended the life of something that thinks and feels. Self-defence may be justified at times but it is still a murder.

We are in school, for example, if I punched you in the face because you pushed me first doesn't mean I wouldn't get in trouble! Even if it was self-defense I didn't have to take it to the means of fighting. Also if it was my only option, that wouldn't save me from the threat of being scolded or getting a detention. A punch is a punch, no matter when it came, it still is a punch.
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

how is KILLING out fo self defense NOT murder? Isn't "to kill" basically the definition of the verb "to murder"?
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2004, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Wrong or Preference?

I was quoting a movie -_- Those arnet my words... talk to the script writters of the movie...
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