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Rate My Team Get your competitive battling team rated here and get help with movesets and battling strategies.


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  #16  
Old 06-24-2008, 04:26 AM
Bitoko's Avatar
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy231 View Post
Why woud you do 252 Attack EVs on Jask when it has SD/Sub/Protect/BP, stick them in HP or something.
Yeah I already realized that lol... I am going to stick them in HP.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

If you want to pull off this strategy effectively, I'd say to hold never put it to lead, but have a decoy. Say, keep Gyarados with Taunt and Dragon Dance in the lead, and have that draw out the Hazer of any kind in the other team and destroy it with whatever strategy you wish. Then, if Gyarados dies and the opponent feels the threat of stat-upping is eliminated, then bring out Ninjask and proceed.

I mean, you don't have to do all that...but it's a good mind trick that can work, but don't rely on it.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2008, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

Leman is right, this is just DP's version of JaskWak, which started in Advance.

Honestly though, Marowak and Ninjask both can be PHazed and its set-up is honestly too difficult to pull off to be worth it IMO. Ninjask isn't really good outside of pure BP teams either as it lacks Ingrain support and whatnot. Zapdos or Gliscor are better speed passers IMO, as they don't draw PHazers all the time like Ninjask does.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2008, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

I use the ninjask starter strategy every now and then. He is obviously built for the strategy. First though, you must consider a few things to make the strategy viable. You will need a focus sash on ninjask. Other wise it will often be the case that you can only pass on the speed boosts because ninjask is very fragile. Second, it will also often be the case that the substitute won't be able to be passed on unless your opponent is also trying to set up with status moves or stat boosting. Pretty much every sweeper can 1H ninjask. This means that whoever you baton pass to will be taking one hit before he can start one-shotting everything (which marrowak will do). With marrowak, he has great defense, but weakness to ice, water, and grass are usually special types and are frequent in the environment. More importantly ninjask also has a weakness to ice, and you won't want to switch in another weakness to ice.

This means that you will want to ev in defenses on who you are switching into, at least a little bit. You will also need alternative options to marrowak like T-Tar, Weavile, or Medicham. These pokemon generally resist ninjask's weaknesses, and ninjask resists their weakness, so a good switch in is possible. Keep in mind that priority moves can still screw you. Ice shard, bullet punch, and mach punch will kill a ninjask or finish off a boosted pokemon regardless of your speed boosts. The solution is to have some priority moves of your own. Also, if your facing double teamers, arial ace is a must, and any moves with poor accuracy should be steered clear of.

Lastly, focus punch always goes last regardless of speed, it is used against switch ins and walls
Don't be afraid to put on a choice band. On medicham or Metagross this can result in near 700 attack without swords dance and as long as you have two moves that guarantee at least a neutral hit everything dies against them.
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  #20  
Old 06-25-2008, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

Quote:
Originally Posted by nummynoisesforhire View Post
I use the ninjask starter strategy every now and then. He is obviously built for the strategy. First though, you must consider a few things to make the strategy viable. You will need a focus sash on ninjask. Other wise it will often be the case that you can only pass on the speed boosts because ninjask is very fragile. Second, it will also often be the case that the substitute won't be able to be passed on unless your opponent is also trying to set up with status moves or stat boosting. Pretty much every sweeper can 1H ninjask. This means that whoever you baton pass to will be taking one hit before he can start one-shotting everything (which marrowak will do). With marrowak, he has great defense, but weakness to ice, water, and grass are usually special types and are frequent in the environment. More importantly ninjask also has a weakness to ice, and you won't want to switch in another weakness to ice.

This means that you will want to ev in defenses on who you are switching into, at least a little bit. You will also need alternative options to marrowak like T-Tar, Weavile, or Medicham. These pokemon generally resist ninjask's weaknesses, and ninjask resists their weakness, so a good switch in is possible. Keep in mind that priority moves can still screw you. Ice shard, bullet punch, and mach punch will kill a ninjask or finish off a boosted pokemon regardless of your speed boosts. The solution is to have some priority moves of your own. Also, if your facing double teamers, arial ace is a must, and any moves with poor accuracy should be steered clear of.

Lastly, focus punch always goes last regardless of speed, it is used against switch ins and walls
Don't be afraid to put on a choice band. On medicham or Metagross this can result in near 700 attack without swords dance and as long as you have two moves that guarantee at least a neutral hit everything dies against them.
Focus sash on ninjask is just a horrible waste. All it will achieve is allowing jask a single swords dance before he passing. And then he useless there-after because SR will KO him as soon as he comes back in. Substitute at least allows the possibility of a second swords dance or more and can allow him to switch in again while leftovers allows for a further sub or two.

BTW double team is banned so if he should choose to carry aerial ace, that is not the reason he would choose to do so

Your other points are valid (I already discussed with Bitoko some HP investment and recomended some damage calculations via PM) But certainly a back up to pass to is a solid idea
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2008, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

Personally i like the combo, just a shame its over used :( lol

I have a Ninjask with the moves:

Substitute
X Scissor
Swords Dance
Baton Pass

Item: Left Overs

EVs: Max on Attack and Speed

I use this to attack too if i see the oppurtunity. Basically i stall with Substitute, gaining speed each time. If my opponent fails to break my substitute, i could either Swords Dance or attack with X Scissor.

From experience on both ends i've learnt a few flaws in the strategy.

The biggest threat to the strategy is extreme speed/quick attack. Since its guaranteed to attack first.

Other threats include hazers and roar
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

As soon as someone sees Ninjask, they're going to switch straight away to their phazer/taunter and screw you over. (i.e. Skarmory, Tauntrados, Gliscor etc.)

It is best to leave Ninjask in the wings until you've removed or at least know that your opponent doesn't have a phazer. Also, a pinch berry as the item (i.e. Liechi Berry), means that you will at least get 1 Swords Dance boost, and is more effective over Leftovers. You want an odd HP number so that you can substitute 4 times, so make sure that your HP isn't devisible by 4.

Marowak wants to look more like this:

Marowak@Thick Club
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Spd

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Double - Edge
Fire Punch

You do know the whole reason for Fire Punch was so you could hit through steels that resist you right? Otherwise it won't be sweeping much with the likes of Bronzong and Skarmory in the way. With only a single SD boost, it won't be OHKO'ing any of them without Fire Punch, and Focus Punch really isn't useful on a set like this.

The only problem I have with people using Ninjask is that it's a one-trick pony, people know what they're going to get, and once it's been used, there is very little chance it will be effective again. It basically takes up a slot for something that could be there, and if it fails, you're left with a slow sweeper that just can't cut it in the current metagame. Your choice.

Btw, any smart person will use the opportunity to set up on you. A Gyarados lead will simply Dragon Dance in your face and when you Baton Pass, he'll OHKO with Waterfall. There are so many opportunities for this to fail, for such a small outcome. Yes it may be fast, but if you don't run Fire Punch you'll be walled easily.

~T_S
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

i just thought of something

why dont you give ninjask that berry that ups attack when on low health?

just keep using subs and getting speed boosts (and use sword dances if they do not break it) and when on low health the berry should activate and all you have to do is baton pass
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2008, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Ninjask & Marowak

Thats a pretty good tactic. Personally i prefer left overs, helps keep my Ninjask alive. So many times i have been able to baton pass speed and attack to either my Marowak or Electivire. and have close to full health. Sometimes im able to baton pass second time with Ninjask after one of those two faints.

This is a gamble i know lol, and it has failed on me . . several times :P Which is why my team doesnt rely solely on this tactic :P
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