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Alakazam
09-26-2004, 12:58 AM
There has been much talk of George W. Bush reinstating the draft (if reelected) as early as 2005. Not only that, but there is an act currently being propsed to change the draft a little:

-the ceiling age for being drafted will be raised from 24 to 34

-College students will only be able to defer for ONE SEMESTER, and seniors for one academic year.


As if there weren't already enough reasons why not to reelect Bush, now this comes up. I know it won't ever be discussed in the media, so I urge everyone who reads this that lives in the US to tell everyone they know about this, or I'm sure that the word will never get out to the populace.

I now fear for my life. I Bush gets reelected...my life could be ruined, quite literally. I'm in college, and if that act gets passed, and Bush reinstates the draft...*shudders*

Kenny_C.002
09-26-2004, 01:16 AM
Zam. If Bush gets re-elected, you still have 1 more choice. You can come to Canada as a refugee of war. Right now we have been raising a petition to keep refugees of this war in Canada (which we have dubbed illegal as a war) and therefore it would hopefully be more empowered if this news reaches us (which is likely). Again, we've taken refugees from the Vietnam war, what makes this one different?

Worst possible scenerio: Bush reinstates draft. You have 2 choices: come to Canada, or prove that you're insane. *sigh*

Alakazam
09-26-2004, 01:20 AM
...or go to jail.

I can't believe that this is happening; I'm going to be glue to the cable Senae and House channels until this bill is done with one way or another.

I'm, of course, really upset about this right now, since I'm sure whether I'll be at college for in Iraq next fall. I cannot put into words how terrible this is.


All right, Kenny; I guess I'll have to come and live at your house if the draft is reinstated. -_-


But what really worries me is that if Bush gets reelected, I think the draft WILL come, and Kerr'ys chances don't look very good right now.

*starts to plan a campiagn to tell college students about the draft so they'll vote against Bush*

Kenny_C.002
09-26-2004, 01:52 AM
My house? You can live with Dial-up? Whoa!

i'm not even sure if they let you live in just any random shmoe's house either if you're up here. Well at least you're not in jail...then sent to fight anyway.

Crap how's Kerry going to lose? HOW?

and uh...can't they like hire some guy to like shoot Bush or something? (is it legal to say this stuff in America?)

And technically speaking, if oyu prove yourself insane, you dont' have to go, right? :-/

Alakazam
09-26-2004, 02:54 AM
My house? You can live with Dial-up? Whoa!

i'm not even sure if they let you live in just any random shmoe's house either if you're up here. Well at least you're not in jail...then sent to fight anyway.

Crap how's Kerry going to lose? HOW?

and uh...can't they like hire some guy to like shoot Bush or something? (is it legal to say this stuff in America?)

And technically speaking, if oyu prove yourself insane, you dont' have to go, right? :-/

Heh, I'd rather deal with dial-up that blazing days in the desert...

Is Kerry going to lose? Well, I hope that he won't, but most people actually buy into Bush's lie, so it's not looking too pretty at the moment.

Someone to shoot Bush, and can we say things like that in America? Heh, I wish on both accounts. As to the latter question, I'd like to say that one can, but once the Patriot Act II passes, the gov't will be able to arrest citizens and even rebuke citizenship to people without evidence or charge. It sometimes seems like I'm in the world of George Orwell's 1984... -_- And I'm completely serious.

And, I have a theory. Most presidents that have been assassnated were killed near the beginning of their second term. I figure that one can always hope for that to happen if Bush gets elected...

Ace
09-26-2004, 04:30 AM
0_0

Well...at least I have 12 sorry years to spend for my life IF the draft is reinstated. Meh, I'm going to stand my ground, I'd probably be in the military even before the age of 24 :tongue:

First, I should join the military at early high school so I can become an officer and far away from the front lines as possible. I'm better at utilizing my brain than my brawn. :rolleyes:

Meh, reinstating the draft is unnecessary, IMO. We have more than enough people needed overseas. The combat there isn't even major. It's just that those cowards are using cheap tactics such as car bombs against our troops.

I already have a schedule for if the draft is reinstated:

Age 18: Joins military and gets promoted to PFC
Age 19: Gets promoted to specialist, then corporal.
Age 20: Gets promoted to sergeant.
Age 21: No progress, for no one can be promoted from sergeant unless passing college.
Age 22: No progress, for no one can be promoted from sergeant unless passing college.
Age 23: No progress, for no one can be promoted from sergeant unless passing college.
Age 24: Hopefully I would be a graduate by then and promoted to Second Lieutenant. If I am lucky enough to get myself landed on West Point, maybe even a higher rank. :tongue:
Age 25: If I'm not above captain by then, I'm going to Canada. :tongue:

Alakazam
09-26-2004, 05:52 AM
Yeah, but I have no aspirations of joining the military whatsoever. I'd rather commit seppuku than put my life on the line for George W. Bush.

The End
09-26-2004, 01:00 PM
There has been much talk of George W. Bush reinstating the draft (if reelected) as early as 2005. Not only that, but there is an act currently being propsed to change the draft a little:

-the ceiling age for being drafted will be raised from 24 to 34

-College students will only be able to defer for ONE SEMESTER, and seniors for one academic year.


As if there weren't already enough reasons why not to reelect Bush, now this comes up. I know it won't ever be discussed in the media, so I urge everyone who reads this that lives in the US to tell everyone they know about this, or I'm sure that the word will never get out to the populace.

I now fear for my life. I Bush gets reelected...my life could be ruined, quite literally. I'm in college, and if that act gets passed, and Bush reinstates the draft...*shudders*

Get married. I am pretty sure they dont draft married peeps.

ElimN8
09-26-2004, 06:31 PM
What're your sources? I saw a joke article on this topic once; scared me half to death until I learned it was a fake. ¬_¬

Heh, I can see I'm not the only one who'd rather have the bastard killed than have him serve for another four years. :ermm: :tongue: And Zam, you're the first Christian I've seen who actually opposes Bush; good for you. It's refreshing to see someone who thinks for himself.

As for me, I'm not in college yet, but if it ever came to this, I'd much rather go to prison than join the army; no lie. I'm just as patriotic as anyone else, too, it's not as if I'm "neglecting to give back to my country", it's just that this War is completely groundless, so forgive me for saying it's not exactly something I can say I want to stake my life over. :neutral:

Agent Orange
09-26-2004, 06:31 PM
They do, I am pretty sure.

If the draft is reinstated, then this country is fricking doomed. My whole family, (Except for a few. :susp:) is voting agenst him, I hope others do too.

Alakazam
09-26-2004, 06:42 PM
Elimin8, I have doubted the sources after my intial scare; I plan to research this topic extensively to find out exactly what's going on, and I'll report back on this once I do.

Matthew
09-26-2004, 11:41 PM
Elimin8, I have doubted the sources after my intial scare; I plan to research this topic extensively to find out exactly what's going on, and I'll report back on this once I do.

Please do so.... I am really frightened about this talk of draft... I am 17 right now... and I am turning 18 in February.... I'm gonna try and stay tuned to ths thread to learn more... I would vote for Kerry even though I'm a Republican... more moderate (In between) But more of my veiw are rep so I declare myself as that... bah... Bush is so dumb... I can't stand the guy sometimes...

Alakazam
09-27-2004, 01:22 AM
I've begun to launch my research project on this, and I'll post my final report once I'm through.

Kenny_C.002
09-27-2004, 01:29 AM
Please do so.... I am really frightened about this talk of draft... I am 17 right now... and I am turning 18 in February.... I'm gonna try and stay tuned to ths thread to learn more... I would vote for Kerry even though I'm a Republican... more moderate (In between) But more of my veiw are rep so I declare myself as that... bah... Bush is so dumb... I can't stand the guy sometimes...

Join the Anti-Bush movement! Oppose! Get the Italian Mafia (wow that's random)!

Matthew
09-27-2004, 01:32 AM
*slaps Kenny*

Gather your senses Man!!! XD lol

Can't wait to see your final project Ala!

Kenny_C.002
09-27-2004, 01:45 AM
*slaps Kenny*

Gather your senses Man!!! XD lol

Can't wait to see your final project Ala!

NEVER! Join us!

Anyway, hope your research goes well Brian. And I hope you're proven WRONG (and that would be a good thing).

Matthew
09-27-2004, 02:12 AM
NEVER! Join us!

Anyway, hope your research goes well Brian. And I hope you're proven WRONG (and that would be a good thing).

No Kenny... I'm talking about your randomness.... XD *slaps Kenny again*

Kenny_C.002
09-27-2004, 06:00 PM
No Kenny... I'm talking about your randomness.... XD *slaps Kenny again*

Word on random. It's cool. Better than drafting for sure. Uh...Bush is a flag-waver, right? So we can safely presume that draft has a minimum chance at 20%, right?

Techno Treecko
09-27-2004, 08:21 PM
Look, I'm not denying the possibility that President Bush may in fact commit this, and re-enstate the draft in the U.S. However, even if he were, people who are in college and married people would be the last to be drafted, if they were needed at all. The draft first gathers all people over 18 who are not currently seeking an education, and aren't married. So, you would be safe for at least a while, or possibly the whole time, Alakazam. Also, I believe this whole thing to be a joke, because for one, there is no factual proof of this, and two, he would only decide to draft people if he didn't have enough men as is. I haven't heard anything about a shortage of people in the army lately.

Also, who's to say that Kerry wouldn't do the same damn thing? If needed, he would have to enstate the draft as well, so it's no different in terms of voting for one or the other because of the rumor of drafting. :ermm:

Alakazam
09-27-2004, 10:08 PM
Kerry wouldn't have to start the drat up again, because he wouldn't continue the Crusades of Bush.

Also, I didn't think it mattered whether or not you were in college or not. People have been complaining about how the people with the least money are the ones who volunteer for the military...and it seems like they want to change it.

Anyway, I hope my research leads to believe that this won't happen...but yes Kenny, at this point, IMO, your figure is minimum.

Kenny_C.002
09-27-2004, 11:50 PM
Hopefully my estimate would be completely wrong and is lower, too.

Alakazam
09-28-2004, 12:03 AM
As I'm looking through information, it seems that all of this stuff has stemmed from three different events, most of which are understood (I'll go into them in detail in my report):

-the posting by the SSS (Selective Services) of a website asking for people to join draft boards. Once the site began to get publicity, the page was taken down, and its existence completely denied

-the fact that the SSS's budget was increased by $28 million for the 2004 fiscal year.

-the two bills that are going through the Senate and House about CHANGING the draft laws.

Stay tuned for more info. I hope you're right too, though I'm not going to comment on this again until I'm through with my research.

Techno Treecko
09-28-2004, 12:42 AM
I was talking about this subject with my mom, and as she was reading through tonight's newspaper, she found an article on it, and showed me.

[Copied down directly from the Kalamazoo Gazette]:

“Rumors about draft 'unfounded'”

The phones at the Selective Service System in Washington, D.C., ring more frequently these days. Some callers are nothing short of hysterical.

Officials at the nearly forgotten federal agency that would be responsible for running any future military draft say they have been receiving thousands of calls in recent months from people who are under the impression that mandatory conscription is imminent for men and women age 18 to 26.

Janice Hughes, a public and intergovernmental affairs specialist with the agency, fielded one call from and American woman calling from Italy on a cell phone. "She heard there would be a draft of women and she didn't want to come back," Hughes said.

Hughes gave her stock reply: "It's not true. We would know."

The calls keep coming even after repeated assurances from the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol Hill that there is no desire, need or plan for a draft.

That may be because fears the draft will be resurrected after 31 years of dormancy continue to be stoked in Internet chat rooms and chain e-mails and most recently on the presidential campaign trail when surrogates of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry -- former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland--suggested the possibility of a draft if President Bush wins a second term.

At a campaign appearance in Oregon last week, Vice President Dick Cheney said the all volunteer military remains America's best option and it would take a crisis "on the scale of World War II before I would think that anybody would seriously contemplate the possibility of going back again to the draft."

Kerry flatly opposed a military draft at a campaign stop in Florida on Wednesday.

The Vietnam-era draft ended in 1973. The Selective Service System was revived in 1980 to keep a database of men age 18 to 26 in the event of any future draft. Women are not eligible to be drafted under current law.

Barry Zellen, a 41-year-old Boston technical writer who created the Web site StopTheDraft.com in 1999, has watched visits to his site escalate in the past year.

But Zellen gives little credence to the current rumors, which predict the government will restart the draft on June 15, 2005.

"The Internet is helping propagate the myth that there is a secret government plan," Zellen said. He points to the war in Iraq as one of the roots of the rumors. The other catalysts have been events in Washington over the past 18 months, he and others following the issue said.

The first came in January 2003 when Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., and Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., introduced separate bills calling for draft-age men and women to perform military or civilian government service. Rangel and Hollings were vocal opponents of the Iraq war and both conceded that neither bill had a chance of coming to a vote in the Republican-controlled Congress.

The second came less than a year ago when the Selective Service System issued a call for volunteers to fill vacancies on local draft boards.

Richard Flahavan, a spokesman for the Selective Service System, said the people propagating the rumors apparently didn't realize that local draft boards have been in place since 1980 -- and the roughly 10,00 board members serve 20-year terms, which have expired.

Flahavan said the draft warnings also cite inaccurate government figures. Most of the Internet draft warnings say $28 million has "been added" to the Selective Service System budget this year. The $28 million figure was actually the total budget the agency requested this year. Congress actually approved a $26 million budget.

Most of the e-mails warning of impending conscription begin with the words: "Mandatory draft for boys and girls (age 18-26) starting June 15, 2005, is something that everyone should know about."

Even members of peace advocacy groups have grown weary of calls from people who believe it.

"That email doesn't die. It's got a lot of inaccuracies in it," said Bill Galvin, a counseling coordinator with the Center on Conscience and War, a conscientious objectors organization in Washington. "We're getting so tired of answering questions about the stupid thing."

That doesn't mean Galvin is unconcerned that a draft might be a possibility in the future, but he doesn't believe it would unfold in the way the Internet rumors predict.

Still, unease persists on college campuses, which have been blanketed by e-mails warning about the draft.

At Rutgers University Newark, Eugene Heimur said his mother got the e-mail.

"She freaked out," said Heimur, 19, of Rutherford, N.J. "She told me I could get drafted and I was like, 'Are you serious?' It's crazy."



Whew! Damn that took forever to type up. But there you have it, that's 100% of the article I found in the Kalamazoo Gazette (or rather, my mom found it). I hope that clears everything up on this whole bozo issue of a possible draft in the future.

Alakazam
09-28-2004, 12:51 AM
TT, are you really dismissing the topic after reading ONE article? I've read dozens so far, and I'm still not sure about it. There's a lot of misinformation about it, and I hope to set it all straight in my report, which is coming along well.

Techno Treecko
09-28-2004, 12:57 AM
TT, are you really dismissing the topic after reading ONE article? I've read dozens so far, and I'm still not sure about it. There's a lot of misinformation about it, andI hope to set it all straight in my report, which I'm almost finished with at this point.

Yes, actually, I am. Dude, you need to put it to rest. The government has PLENTY of voluntary military service; why on Earth would they need to place a draft? That article is a reliable source, and the editor who created it has information from the government itself that no draft is currently even being planned or thought about right now. It's not going to happen, and even if it is, why would you spend all your time looking and trying to find out when you can just forget about it for now and live out your life the best you can until / if it happens?

Half a Dollar
09-28-2004, 12:58 AM
Liek most, I seriously do not want Bush to be elected again. I mean, why can't just he go into the WAR? Why is he still continuing it? Man, even though I'm 11, when I grow up, I do NOT want to get drafted. >.<

Kenny_C.002
09-28-2004, 01:42 AM
Well you seriously can't trust just one source, Treek. I mean, although there may be truth to your article, generally a consensus should point to the same thing before a confidence level should arise.

Alakazam
09-28-2004, 01:45 AM
*drumroll*

Well, I've finshed my research, and here's what I've come up with:

--

Online Study: An Investigation into the concept of the return of The Draft in the US in 2005

What follows is an objective, nonpartisan report based upon extensive online research of news organizations and other sources addressing the rumors of the return of the draft in the United States to come into effect in June of 2005.
In recent weeks, rumors have been spreading across the net about the reinstatement of the draft, which hasn’t been used in the United States since 1973, after the Vietnam War. Speculation that the US Army is spread too thin is running rampant, fueling the feelings in this country that the draft may be necessary to continue the war on terror.
For those of you who don’t know or aren’t sure, ‘the draft’ is a part of US law that, when instated requires that all men between the ages of 18 and 24 serve in the military for at least two years. Men between the aforementioned ages are required by law to sign up for the draft, even when it’s not instated.
At this time, more than 60% of the US troops in Iraq are from the National Guard or Army Reserves; our main force has already come and gone home, most with extended tours. Not do the reservists represent the majority of our troops in Iraq, but those reservists represent the vast majority of reservists we have. Only one trained division is currently ready to be deployed to Iraq at this point, compared to the ten divisions that were available and on hand as possible reinforcements during the Gulf War of 1991.
Most of the reservists who are currently deployed in Iraq have had to have their tours extended, because there appear to not be enough men available to replace them. It is said that more than half of the troops currently deployed say that they will NOT reenlist to be sent back for another tour, which would cut our already limited forces even smaller than before.
Of course, people interpret this information in very different ways. Conservatives maintain that all is well in Iraq and that there will be no need for a large increase in the size of our military in the foreseeable future. Liberals are screaming that our troops are dwindling quickly, and that the government is going to have to either reinstate the draft or cut the war on terror short. One cannot just listen to one side and agree with them, both of the groups mentioned in this paragraph are quite biased, and it’s clear why they have the stances that they do on this.
The first event that began this whole debate was when the SSS (the Selective Service System) created a website to recruit people for empty draft board seats. Draft boards exist to perform the draft lotteries, and determine exactly who will serve, if the draft is reinstated. The page was located at: http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html, but was removed after it received a lot of publicity, and its existence is now denied by the SSS. They have said about the page “it sounds like us” but they “can’t remember ever having put it on there”. The fact that the page was pulled when it was brought to the public attention has raised a lot of questions about the Selective Service program, and why they threw out the page.
Responding to a barrage of phone calls and e-mails regarding the web page, they said that they were replacing seats on the board that had just recently because of people’s terms ending (the term for draft board members are 20 years), yet others have alleged that draft boards have been empty for almost forty years, and wonder why they feel that it’s necessary now to make sure that the draft boards are fully staffed. The draft board exists only to execute its function when the draft is instated, and are pretty much inert when there is no active draft.
Another major factor in this topic that needs to be taken into consideration is that Congress passed an increase of $28 million for the SSS’s budget for this fiscal year. Many wonder what the SSS is going to do with this increased funding.
As if there weren’t enough material already inexistence to engender this controversy, Fritz Hollings (D – SC) and Congressman Charles B. Rangel (D – NY) have brought up bills in front of their respective legislative bodies for approval. Bills S89 and HR163, which are identical in almost every way are very misunderstood by the public. What both pieces of legislation propose to do is to make a few changes to the specific of the draft policy in the US:

-The ceiling age for draftees (which was previously 24) will be raised to 26.

-Women must also register for the draft.

-College students will no longer be able to defer until graduation. They can now only defer for one semester, and then they may be drafted. College seniors can defer until the end of their current academic year

I’ve read in so many places that these two bills, if passed actually reinstate the draft. This is completely untrue. The way the draft can be reinstated is not proposed to be changed in either bill. The president must still begin the process, and it still must be voted on in Congress for it to be reinstated.

"I don't think a presidential candidate would seriously propose a draft," said Charles Pena, a senior analyst with the Washington-based Cato Institute. "But an incumbent, safely in for a second term — that might be a different story.”

“The Nation must be prepared to conduct a draft.” –Lewis C. Brodsky, Director of Public and Congressional Affairs with the Selective Service System

"That would require action from Congress and the president and they are not likely to do that unless there was something of the magnitude of the Second World War that required it," said Dan Amon, a spokesman for the selective service department.
"I'm not supposed to get into politics, but it is absolutely false that anyone in this administration is considering reinstating the draft. That is nonsense," he said. "We've got 295 million people in the United States of America. We need 1.4 million people to serve in the active force. We are having no trouble attracting and retaining the people we need.” Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Of course, we expect those in power to tell us that there are no plans to reinstate the draft; that would be political suicide.

Links;
Bill S89 - http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:SN00089:

Bill HR163 - http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR00163:

-----

That’s about all the information that I’ve been able to come up with, and I don’t think one can be 100% sure about this one way or another. I leave that judgment up to you, though I am a bit relieved by my findings. It would appear that the situation isn’t as dire as some make it out to be.
BTW: If anyone would like me to post my research with source, I’d be happy to. All you have to do is ask.

Lord Celebi
09-28-2004, 01:18 PM
Heh, I'd rather deal with dial-up that blazing days in the desert...

Is Kerry going to lose? Well, I hope that he won't, but most people actually buy into Bush's lie, so it's not looking too pretty at the moment.

Someone to shoot Bush, and can we say things like that in America? Heh, I wish on both accounts. As to the latter question, I'd like to say that one can, but once the Patriot Act II passes, the gov't will be able to arrest citizens and even rebuke citizenship to people without evidence or charge. It sometimes seems like I'm in the world of George Orwell's 1984... -_- And I'm completely serious.

And, I have a theory. Most presidents that have been assassnated were killed near the beginning of their second term. I figure that one can always hope for that to happen if Bush gets elected...
Damnit. So they're gonna arrest a juvenile for saying Bush has Ass for brains? Jerks. Of course, They'll also arrest Al Franken (Before i can read his damned book) and Micheal Moore too if I get arrested.

They really CAN reinstate the draft? I thought one of my teachers said when we were talking about the WWs that the draft can never be reinstated. Even though I;m not an adult yet, that's wrong.

So Zam, I see your only choices if Bush is reelected is to get married, move to Canada, or go to jail.

Alakazam
09-28-2004, 04:22 PM
Damnit. So they're gonna arrest a juvenile for saying Bush has Ass for brains? Jerks. Of course, They'll also arrest Al Franken (Before i can read his damned book) and Micheal Moore too if I get arrested.

They really CAN reinstate the draft? I thought one of my teachers said when we were talking about the WWs that the draft can never be reinstated. Even though I;m not an adult yet, that's wrong.

So Zam, I see your only choices if Bush is reelected is to get married, move to Canada, or go to jail. or cause a head injury so severe that I'd need neurosurgery, or chop off an arm and a leg (not that I'd ever do the last two things I just mentioned.

First of all, yes is could be reinstated...who ever told you that ti could never be reinstated again is wrong. I'm saying I will, but the policiy is still there.

Lord Celebi
09-28-2004, 08:53 PM
Lol, or youcan go around saying you met a fairy, then they'd put you in a mental hospital and you wouldn't be sent to Iraq.

Thanks for that, I need to find that teacher so I can yell at him/her.

Deoxys0003
09-29-2004, 04:31 AM
And Zam, you're the first Christian I've seen who actually opposes Bush; good for you. It's refreshing to see someone who thinks for himself.


Hey, nice stereotype. That really pisses me off. :rolleyes:

Alakazam
09-29-2004, 01:24 PM
Hey, nice stereotype. That really pisses me off. :rolleyes:

There's no stereotype in his post. He said that I'm the only Christian he's seen who opposes Bush. That statement is based on his own experiences; he's not making any assumptions.

The End
09-29-2004, 08:38 PM
Hey, nice stereotype. That really pisses me off. :rolleyes:


Hey, nice assumption. That really pisses me off. :rolleyes:

Jack of Clovers
10-01-2004, 05:24 PM
someone said that Kerry wasn't continuing the war. well, he is. i heard about it from the news. however, the chance that he allows the Draft is less than Bush, much less. and i'd really hate it if the draft happened. if it does and they come after me, im seriously going to fight to get out of it. im not going to join a war i don't support (not that i'd join any war). and if i can't fight it, Canada here i come. i'll finally get to visit Toronto. woo! :sleepy:

~Jack~

Alakazam
10-01-2004, 05:31 PM
someone said that Kerry wasn't continuing the war. well, he is. i heard about it from the news. however, the chance that he allows the Draft is less than Bush, much less. and i'd really hate it if the draft happened. if it does and they come after me, im seriously going to fight to get out of it. im not going to join a war i don't support (not that i'd join any war). and if i can't fight it, Canada here i come. i'll finally get to visit Toronto. woo! :sleepy:

~Jack~

My sentiments exactly Jack, Kerry wil certainly continue the War on Terror, but I don't see him invading countries unprovoked. Let's just pray that this (the draft) will never happen.

PokemonMaster-Chris
10-01-2004, 08:04 PM
Actually the Democrats introduced the drafting legislation not the Republicans.

Alakazam
10-01-2004, 08:27 PM
Actually the Democrats introduced the drafting legislation not the Republicans.

Chris, though what you say is true, that's not what we're talking about. The legislation you refer to only changes the way the draft is run...you'd know that if you'd read my report in this very thread. We're talking about the probability of the draft being reinstated by Bush VS Kerry.

PokemonMaster-Chris
10-06-2004, 01:49 AM
The President said will have an all Volunteer Army as long as he is president.

Matthew
10-06-2004, 01:57 AM
The President said will have an all Volunteer Army as long as he is president.

Yeah... I heard him say that as his closing speech at the presdential debate on Thursday. But he may have said that to get youjnger voters XD

Alakazam
10-06-2004, 02:59 AM
The President said will have an all Volunteer Army as long as he is president.

He has, yet I can't trust his words. He's mislead us before; who's to say he's not doing it again?

Matthew
10-07-2004, 06:31 AM
I know... that is why I said he probably only said that to get support of the younger voters... :susp: dumb bush... lol.

Jack of Clovers
10-07-2004, 07:02 AM
the young voters don't matter too much for the elections. the majority that vote are older so that's the main age group they try to get. if they say they won't enlist the draft, less young voters will vote. if one of them chooses to have the draft, more young voters will vote for the other candidate. so it's obvious that both will promise not to enlist a draft.
the way things are going in Iraq (which is a modern day Vietnam) it will be years before it's over and a draft is likely in the future for whoever is voted president. we will run out of reserves and rotation and it's all a matter of when.

~Jack~

Matthew
10-07-2004, 07:11 AM
Though a draft is PROBABLE, i still don't think it is very likely... though there still is that sliver of a chance it can be reinstated. Though you have good points Jack, I still think that Bush said it to gain more support of the newer/younger voters... he firmly said if he was relected as president, he would surely not reinstate the draft... so that is my reason... it is still better to do what you can and gain as many votes as you can because of how tight this race is.

PokemonMaster-Chris
10-09-2004, 01:47 AM
I believe that the president has not mislead us you all are so biased toward the Democrats. If you ask me John Kerry would mislead us say one thing one day and say something contradicting the next day. Why would we want a flip floper who does not stick to his positions?

Alakazam
10-09-2004, 02:12 AM
I believe that the president has not mislead us you all are so biased toward the Democrats. If you ask me John Kerry would mislead us say one thing one day and say something contradicting the next day. Why would we want a flip floper who does not stick to his positions?

Why is it that Bush supporters harp on "flip-flipping" constantly? I find it a bit immature. I lament that you can't see through Bush's lies, I truely do. Can you honestly tell me that you've never felt mislead by George W. Bush?

ElimN8
10-09-2004, 03:57 AM
The majority of people saying those things haven't the faintest clue as to what's really going on; they just reiterate the campaign taglines that are drilled into their heads by the media and by those around them, using the statements blindly with the assurance that what they're saying is somehow substantial, or a valid point.

It's not. Get over it. The term "flip-flop" is ever more sickening as its utterance persists in its seemingly undying repetition throughout the presidential race.

As for the Draft, though Bush has been known to lie, I do not doubt the sincerity in his words when he states that it won't be returning. The internet is full of rumors; one shouldn't drape oneself in a false sense of security, but at the same time, one can not be suspicious of everything.

Matthew
10-09-2004, 07:34 AM
Why is it that Bush supporters harp on "flip-flipping" constantly? I find it a bit immature. I lament that you can't see through Bush's lies, I truely do. Can you honestly tell me that you've never felt mislead by George W. Bush?

First of all.... hve you ever stopped to Bush was only running on the information his consultants were giving him? So... he was only doing what he felt was right with the information given to him... what would you do? He was doing what was right.... taking action before action was taken upon his country.... besides... who would you want for president:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/bushkerryfootball.jpg

Hehe.... just a little humor I found on the internet... cred is in the pic.

Lord Celebi
10-09-2004, 12:54 PM
You're aware Bush is holding the ball, not catching it, right?

Alakazam
10-09-2004, 01:15 PM
First of all.... hve you ever stopped to Bush was only running on the information his consultants were giving him? So... he was only doing what he felt was right with the information given to him... what would you do? He was doing what was right.... taking action before action was taken upon his country.... besides... who would you want for president:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/bushkerryfootball.jpg

Hehe.... just a little humor I found on the internet... cred is in the pic.

Oh...I get it, we should just elect whoever can play football, huh? And, I don't believe that Bush acted upon real intelligence to inavde Iraq. He told his head of counterterrorism on 9/12/01, Richard Clarke, to search for ties between Iraq and 9/11, and he didn't want to hear anything more about bin Laden. I'd say Wolfowitz and the rest of the neocons finally got their war in Iraq; it's got nothing to do with WMD.

"I will increase the wetlands by 3 million." George W. Bush (<- You want that man to lead our nation? O_o)

Matthew
10-09-2004, 08:19 PM
Oh...I get it, we should just elect whoever can play football, huh?

I wasn't being serious :susp: I mentioned it was a little humor XD not to be taken suriously...

Alakazam
10-10-2004, 02:40 AM
I wasn't being serious :susp: I mentioned it was a little humor XD not to be taken suriously...

Sorry... :redface: >_< :silenced:

Kenny_C.002
10-10-2004, 05:46 AM
Brian...word limit. :-/

Oh man, on the debate on Friday, Bush was talking about the environment and stuff, as brought on by one guy. The first thing I thought was, "What a bunch of BS!" hey wait, I'll number them!

2. " Bush pointed out there was cleaner air since he was in the administration. Number of smog alerts increased in Toronto, which is indirectly connected to American air."
3. "Wow, that guy looks like he could bite Bush's head off. (lol, this one was jsut random)"
4. "Huh? Bush just said something about harvesting forests and about reforesting them (isn't that contrasting? You spend 1 dollar for every tree you chop. The net gain of this inudstry is minus 50 cents per tree.). I don't like the sound of that..."
5. "Hey Kerry pointed out that the Clean Air act is harsher than Bush's little environment act. That's right!"

Seriously, I can't stand Bush for lying through his teeth like that...and then get away with it.

btw, I don't know what happened with most of the rest of the debate, since I only heavily paid attention at the part and actually remember (some strange amnesia-type behaviour I have..).

BlazikenInferno
10-10-2004, 04:28 PM
Kerry stands pretty well on issues (minus flip-flopping :silly:) exept one. He's pro-death
By pro-death I mean pro-abortion. That's why I couldn't vote for him if I was old enough. I'm a Christian, so I know it's a sin. And although Kerry talked about how he was Catholic, he is still wrong. People don't come before God.

God first
others second
you last

That's a common thing for Christians to remember, and Kerry is not putting God first. Abortion is wrong.

Matthew
10-10-2004, 05:38 PM
Why are you tlakin bout the debate in the draft thread Kenny XD... *slaps him and kicks him into Debate thread*